Advice on Dating

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I decided to start a new topic even though I am getting some really good advice on another thread.

Dating.

Okay so I am clearly not ready to date. But these things just happen. I think.

All the advice to get out there, and enjoy your life and meet people and have fun and get your mind off of the love of your life/ person who rocked your world ex. This comes up.

So I don't know about any of you, but I can't seem to have relationships with men that don't quickly come to a question mark. The problem is, I'm not a kid. When I go out, it is never in groups, it is 1:1. Usually dinner or drink, maybe a walk, some comedy or some music. I'm not back in school yet (Sep!), and I am self-employed. So a little isolated. So yes, I make plans with friends. Of course I lost many friends in the divorce, and then all these new friends I made when I attached to the beautiful BPDex. Lost to me. I am starting over again. I have one male friend who I met through a mutual friend, and he had feelings early on so I told him that I just wanted to be friends, and that has worked out for the most part. We still go out 1:1 and call and text occasionally. But sometimes I feel he still wants more so I have to keep it arms length. There is a bit of a vibe from him there and that makes me a bit uncomfortable because I just don't feel for him that way. But it is good because it was said, and we were clear. I think we do have an understanding.

So I reconnected with some old (high school!) friends and one has shown some interest. We have went out for drinks a couple of times and dinner tonight. After tonight I think he was asking about my level of interest. Like what is this? kind of thing... And the truth be told. I don't even know. He is articulate and intelligent and attractive probably. The truth is I can't even look at him that way because my head is with my ex. First of all I don't feel I really know him yet, although we seem to have fun talking, etc. Truth be told, I am very attracted to his personality but feel zero chemistry in a sexual way. But I'm not sure I would feel anything if it was Chris Hemsworth himself (you all know I wanted to say Brad Pitt, but I'm trying to be cool and current- ). I think my sparky part is broken.

I have only been out of my relationship for 3 months. We have broken up before and I wasn't over him in a year. I don't think I will ever get over him until I fall in love with someone else, but I don't think I will fall in love because I am still invested in him. (Yes, a man who has chosen to not be with me).

What do I do? I could be honest with the new guy and say I want to keep getting to know him but am not ready for a relationship with anyone... .? I literally jumped out of his car so fast tonight, and then when at a safe distance I hung around chatting some more from outside the window.

I don't wan to lead him on. I also don't know if I should wait until I am over my ex to meet new people.
I do know that dating someone else during one of my breakups with BPDex triggered me so badly. I left his home crying after every encounter. The closer I became to the new guy, the more I wanted to run back to ex.


I guess I really probably just want this guy for a friend. Should I just tell him that or see how it goes. I really don't know anything. I think I may have said that so he revised his question to "o you want to go to dinner again." and I said yes because I can handle that. Its just those awkward good parts.

Please advise. I would really love the spark of chemistry again. Do I need to wait for that feeling... ? I don't think I want to start up something with this guy that ultimately hurst both of us.

How to people handle this?

[Zemmma]

I decided to start a new topic even though I am getting some really good advice on another thread.

Dating.

Okay so I am clearly not ready to date. But these things just happen. I think.

All the advice to get out there, and enjoy your life and meet people and have fun and get your mind off of the love of your life/ person who rocked your world ex. This comes up.

So I don't know about any of you, but I can't seem to have relationships with men that don't quickly come to a question mark. The problem is, I'm not a kid. When I go out, it is never in groups, it is 1:1. Usually dinner or drink, maybe a walk, some comedy or some music. I'm not back in school yet (Sep!), and I am self-employed. So a little isolated. So yes, I make plans with friends. Of course I lost many friends in the divorce, and then all these new friends I made when I attached to the beautiful BPDex. Lost to me. I am starting over again. I have one male friend who I met through a mutual friend, and he had feelings early on so I told him that I just wanted to be friends, and that has worked out for the most part. We still go out 1:1 and call and text occasionally. But sometimes I feel he still wants more so I have to keep it arms length. There is a bit of a vibe from him there and that makes me a bit uncomfortable because I just don't feel for him that way. But it is good because it was said, and we were clear. I think we do have an understanding.

So I reconnected with some old (high school!) friends and one has shown some interest. We have went out for drinks a couple of times and dinner tonight. After tonight I think he was asking about my level of interest. Like what is this? kind of thing... And the truth be told. I don't even know. He is articulate and intelligent and attractive probably. The truth is I can't even look at him that way because my head is with my ex. First of all I don't feel I really know him yet, although we seem to have fun talking, etc. Truth be told, I am very attracted to his personality but feel zero chemistry in a sexual way. But I'm not sure I would feel anything if it was Chris Hemsworth himself (you all know I wanted to say Brad Pitt, but I'm trying to be cool and current- ). I think my sparky part is broken.

I have only been out of my relationship for 3 months. We have broken up before and I wasn't over him in a year. I don't think I will ever get over him until I fall in love with someone else, but I don't think I will fall in love because I am still invested in him. (Yes, a man who has chosen to not be with me).

What do I do? I could be honest with the new guy and say I want to keep getting to know him but am not ready for a relationship with anyone... .? I literally jumped out of his car so fast tonight, and then when at a safe distance I hung around chatting some more from outside the window.

I don't wan to lead him on. I also don't know if I should wait until I am over my ex to meet new people.
I do know that dating someone else during one of my breakups with BPDex triggered me so badly. I left his home crying after every encounter. The closer I became to the new guy, the more I wanted to run back to ex.


I guess I really probably just want this guy for a friend. Should I just tell him that or see how it goes. I really don't know anything. I think I may have said that so he revised his question to "o you want to go to dinner again." and I said yes because I can handle that. Its just those awkward good parts.

Please advise. I would really love the spark of chemistry again. Do I need to wait for that feeling... ? I don't think I want to start up something with this guy that ultimately hurst both of us.

How to people handle this?

[spacecadet]

I think my sparky part is broken.

I have only been out of my relationship for 3 months. We have broken up before and I wasn't over him in a year. I don't think I will ever get over him until I fall in love with someone else, but I don't think I will fall in love because I am still invested in him. (Yes, a man who has chosen to not be with me).

Hi Zemmma, your sparky comment made me smile. And I can relate. This is where I was for some months.

There's no magic answer of course, but time ... .works wonders.

Time and doing things that bring you joy, even though it will be a fleeting friend for a while.

Meeting up with old friends is a great idea, keep in touch because they know people... .etc.

Someone recently told me she has two friends who married men they met through Meetup groups. The men were not members of the groups, but they all became close and members fixed them up with men they knew would be great fits for them.

What do I do? I could be honest with the new guy and say I want to keep getting to know him but am not ready for a relationship with anyone... .?

This is what I've been doing. It's led to some friendships that are pretty solid (still only a few months) and yes, the "sparky thing" does mend itself. 

I wouldn't pull out let's just be friends unless you're very clear nothing will develop. If you feel personal chemistry but no sexual chemistry with a man, telling him that will shut the door, but in fact the feelings may expand with time and as you know him. I never really know how I feel about someone until he touches me, and sometimes what I thought was no turns into, okay then. 

It may help to have a mindfulness practice, whether meditation or an activity that helps you get back in your body. I think we can get so overwhelmed and stressed that we disconnect from our bodies as a form of self-protection, but of course that shuts down the good sensations too. Anything that involves breathing, singing, exercise, dance, movement or massage. Karla McLaren has good advice in her book "The Language of Emotions." She has practices to help integrate emotions we've cut off for whatever reason.

Wishing you healing and hope.

[Cromwell]

What do I do? I could be honest with the new guy and say I want to keep getting to know him but am not ready for a relationship with anyone... .? I literally jumped out of his car so fast tonight, and then when at a safe distance I hung around chatting some more from outside the window.

could?

Failure to be open and genuine is failure to become intimate.

The cornerstone of dating advice I have that is unchangeable is always to be yourself, be genuine and equally expect the same from who you are dating as well.

[RomanticFool]

Above all honesty is crucial. To enjoy the attention while leading somebody on and thus hurting his feelings, seems a little unfair don’t you think? We are all on here because we have been hurt ourselves. I would suggest treating people the way you would wish to be treated.

If it was me I wouldn’t even be entertaining the idea of dating until my feelings were repaired. Especially if somebody takes a shine to you and dates you in good faith expecting you to be ready to reciprocate feelings. You certainly aren’t in that space yet.

If it was me, I would take time out to grieve the old r/s and go out with friends and family who want nothing more than company and friendship, rather than date somebody from a position of still being hurt. I would encourage you to heal first before going back into the dating world.

[BeagleGirl]

First of all, I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced.  I hope you're giving yourself plenty of permission to feel that pain and work through it.  If not, you have MY permission to do so.

I'm a big fan of "honesty is the best policy".  If you're not ready, or not sure if you're ready, for anything more than friendship I think that's good to have out in the open.  A man who doesn't have time to invest in "just friends" will be allowed to move on, and a man who sees value in your friendship, whether or not there can be more, will be saved a lot of confusion if the you can talk openly about where you are. 

I'm currently in that "confusing" stage with someone and trying to decide whether to start that conversation or just give it more time.  He first approached me in November, while I was still legally married.  I didn't really have strong feelings for my ex at that point, but was still not quite ready to let go of hope for the marriage, so his comment that it would be fun to catch a movie together was a bit off-putting.  Then 6 months later and nearing the end of my divorce I appreciated his open sharing about processing the end of his marriage.  I still couldn't imagine a spark with him, but my friends must have noticed a shift because one of them bet me that I would kiss him by the end of this year.  He made some overtures that could be interpreted as "wanna go on a date" two months ago and I managed to avoid saying yes or no, but I think indicated "no", but I started to realize I kind of like him and that spark is there for me and now I'm trying to figure out how to indicate that the door out of "friend zone" is open.  So I kinda wish I'd been more open with my communication with him earlier on so this wouldn't be quite as awkward. 

So, to summarize:

Give yourself time and permission to grieve.  Don't rush through it, but be aware of when you may be getting stuck and need a break.

When you need that break, reach out to the least complicated relationships - ones where you aren't questioning motives on either side.

When you have the opportunity to explore new relationships (of any kind) give them plenty of time to develop naturally.  I think it's harder to go slow when your pain is still fresh.  I tend to either want to dive in to intimacy really quickly so I feel secure that they love me or shut down prematurely to avoid being hurt (I wonder where I learned those patterns  ) so the "natural" progression can feel abnormally slow. 

Don't let anyone push you into something you're not ready for.  Don't allow yourself to move into something you're not ready for out of fear of losing someone.  The right person will wait for you.  The person who isn't willing to wait is not the right person.

That's my $0.02.  Good luck!
BeagleGirl

[DogMan75]

This sounds so familiar to me.

I went on a couple of dates and realized I’m not ready yet, so I stopped.

Instead, I’ve consciously turned inward, re-establishing a relationship with myself, improving myself, and when I’m ready, I’ll be ready.

While I’m not full on ready to date again yet, I’m getting closer. I’m flirting more. I’m noticing interest more. I’m more interested in other women.

Take your time. There is no schedule. From the way you tell it, though, it sounds like you’re pushing yourself too hard. Be up front and just tell people you’re not ready yet. People will understand and it will keep the hurt on both sides to a minimum.

[SWLSR]

Zemmma

I can say that I waited six months after being separated before I dated.  Some things to remember what works for you may not work for others and vice versa.  Do not cling to the first date you have, go slow there are alot of choices out there look at many of them.  Set boundaries do not get your self into another bad situation.  Finally be real, life is not a romance novel do not look for one. 

Good luck there are good people out there and well all deserve one.

[RomanticFool]

SWLSR,

“Life is not a romance novel don’t look for one.”

That is the best advice I ever heard. I wish to Hell I had that as my mantra from the age of 2. Maybe then I wouldn’t have kept looking for some poor soul to fix me!

[Zemmma]

Above all honesty is crucial. To enjoy the attention while leading somebody on and thus hurting his feelings, seems a little unfair don’t you think? We are all on here because we have been hurt ourselves. I would suggest treating people the way you would wish to be treated.

If it was me I wouldn’t even be entertaining the idea of dating until my feelings were repaired. Especially if somebody takes a shine to you and dates you in good faith expecting you to be ready to reciprocate feelings.

Okay, but wait, RomanticFool. I am being unfair? This is a person I have known since high school. So it wasn't clear to me that it was a "date." He didn't try anything and we stayed casual. No touch, no hug, no kiss. Nothing at all to indicate we were in a dating situation if that's what it was. I am truly just looking for company. I didn't know him really well in high school but we were in the same social group 25 years ago- same hometown, we have a common past and common friends and memories. We met up with a bunch of the other friends in June but that can't happen much... it was a special occasion/ reunion. Its not realistic to think I could meet up with him only in a group- it would never happen. And I think it would have seemed extremely presumptuous to immediately assume he wants to have a relationship or sex with me just because we went out in the city. Or am I naive? I am not "enjoying" his attention anymore than I am giving him mine in the form of conversation and friendship. We talked about books and movies and LP's and our children and dissertations. Some philosophy, wine and mid-life crap. I think he is interesting and intelligent. I was not attracted sexually (and that wasn't the intent of meeting), but I like the person.

So am I to understand that "dating" if I am a heterosexual woman is basically going anywhere alone with a man? This is what I am to avoid? So I have to be by myself or hang out strictly with women until I am fully healed? For years then? I can't have male friends? Or if a male asks me to grab a coffee or a meal I have to first make a loud disclaimer, "Sure Chuck we can have a latte, but LET'S BE CLEAR: This is caffeine not a date!"

I want to be honest with him but I also don't think its appropriate to immediately assume someone wants more than friendship just because they ask to go out and get something to eat with another person instead of staying at home and staring at a wall.

This is awkward. We are all divorced, alone people, on days or weekends when our kids are with ex's. This is our reality. It's empty. What is the option for a social life at my age. Join a club? (no time or interest). Go to bars? (not better). Work out again? (okay). Go see my mother? (uh-huh.)

I don't want to lead him on. I don't know if he is interested in a relationship or sex or anything of the sort. That didn't come up. I really feel badly right now for supermodels because I guess they can't have male friends at the risk of someone liking them too much.

I am a 47 year old woman who lost a marriage and many of our married social circle (because that's what happens), then got a new man and built a brand new social life around him and then lost it all when he walked out. I lost a large clan of brother and sister in laws, and a whole side of my family of 30 years. I lost my kids half the time. I am alone a lot. I work alone because I have my own business. I am not on dating websites. I am not leading anyone on. I am trying to make plans with people I already know. Three nights this week I went out alone but last night it was good to actually have a conversation with someone who is not my server. We talked and laughed and had fun as I do with my girlfriends. I do have girlfriends, but who at my age has enough girlfriends to fill in seven nights a week? (my kids are with their dad on vacation, my friends have kids and jobs). The only time it got (internally) weird last night was pulling up to my driveway, because I felt the need to jump out of the car like my pants were on fire (and not in a good way). That's not leading someone on.

Okay, so RomanticFool, I know I sound defensive. That's totally what happened here. I do appreciate your input always!

Thanks everyone for your comments. I hate all of this. I know we all sometimes despise the situations that we are thrown into against our will. I am trying to make the best of it. I do like the company of men in a way that is different from women. They are actually different creatures. I enjoy them both.

I have been hinting to him that I am not ready for a relationship without coming straight out with it as it seems a little inappropriate to have "the talk" with someone I am just getting to know again after all these years. I don't want to seem full of myself, assuming he wants me. That discussion is not on the table. Maybe he too just wants company and an old friend seems safe and good.

I also told him that I don't have any answers about anything and when he asked if we could get together again, I said sure, I would like to and I told him that was the right question to ask. I told him weeks ago in a brief text that I was suffering badly with a recent break up- just as a quick comment so he would know. In response to my text he said it's all fine. That he just enjoys my company, he knows I am reeling from a past relationship and he said "no pressure from me." I thanked him immediately for saying that and dropped it.

I think that's enough and anything else would be premature and off-base. It's not "friend-zoning" but it is saying that I am not ready for a relationship in general. I have not made a judgement on him as you would after an internet date (yay or nay). I think I have been clear. I don't want him waiting around for me. I really hope I am not sending that message because I am really not feeling more than friendship at this point and more than likely my feelings will never change.

I still want to go out for curry chicken and wine with this man if he wants to. He is highly intelligent, pretty funny and I can imagine he would be an ideal long term friend. He does talk of having both women and male friends.

I also realize that with my marriage and my BPDex I have really only been single for less than two years of my adult life, so maybe I don't know what the bleep I'm doing and if single men and women in this or any situation can ever truly "just" be friends.

[Insom]

I literally jumped out of his car so fast tonight, and then when at a safe distance I hung around chatting some more from outside the window.

It sounds like your system gave you some clear emotional feedback here that you're second guessing.  I can relate feeling confused after second-guessing this type of feedback. 

I would really love the spark of chemistry again. Do I need to wait for that feeling... ?

I think so.  How do you feel about waiting a bit? 

[Zemmma]

Hi... I am absolutely waiting.

That's what I am doing by connecting with old friends and having fun with many people in a platonic way. Keeping busy. This is waiting. I am totally waiting. Wating to feel better. I just don't want to sit at home every night. And I don't want to wander around the city alone anymore than I already do. I want friends, and I have more time right now without my ex and with so many friends away on summer vacation, I had a personal policy: if I get an invitation i will take it.

The jumping out of the car was more about the situation. Having someone drive you home, pull into your driveway. Its just an awkward thing historically, socially. That drop off was a trigger. Having to part, and say... what? Would I feel awkward if it was one of my gay male friends? One of my girlfriends? Probably not so much. So yes, I admit it is different with a man. You make things clear. Set boundaries. I guess I was looking for how to do that or how you have all felt in similar situations. And that weird thing about telling them or not that it is just a friendship. I wish that it was always assumed friendship until someone makes some kind of move. It shouldn't be assumed romantic just because of our prospective genders and some interest in hanging out.

Anyway. I am not going on a dating site or looking for a man. I would like some more friends. More fun. How else can I make my life amazing if I feel alone so much of the time? I'm just feeling sorry for myself. I'm going back to school in September for a full time doctoral program while running my business and raising two teenage kids. Hopefully I won't have time to be so sad.

This has been a horrible summer.



If I actually got involved with a man right now I'd probably be on my ex's doorstep in a heartbeat. I guess I should avoid men.

[Insom]

This has been a horrible summer.

Oh,  Zemmma!  Hugs.    I hear that this has felt hard and that you still have feelings for your ex. It's normal for BPD breakups to feel emotionally intense. 

The jumping out of the car was more about the situation.

I get that this was situational (no need to defend).  The emotional feedback you got was real though, right?

It sounds like you're doing the absolute right thing by spending time with friends and seeking out more fun and connections.  And it also sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to "make my life amazing."  Is there another step between where you are now and where you want to be emotionally feels achievable?  (Horrible to amazing is a GIANT step!) Is there a particular friend or acquaintance (not a romantic friend) that you enjoy spending time with who is around this summer? 

[BeagleGirl]

Zemma,
   .  It does get better.
Last July was my low point.  I remember wandering aimlessly around my house just HURTING and wanting to have some escape from the pain.  My friends are also all married with kids and lives of their own.  I would travel for work on the weeks I didn't have custody and I would start crying as soon as I got to the airport to go back home.  The weekends without my kids seemed endless.  I couldn't bring myself to sleep in my bed when my kids weren't home, so I usually fell asleep on the couch with the TV on for background noise.

You may already be doing this, but the best advice I had during that time was to sit with my pain.  I spent a lot of time running from the pain, but I couldn't really work through it until I sat with it.  I sat with the pain, and the anger, and the loneliness.  I faced them head on and realized that they couldn't break me.  That's when I started to become more comfortable with being alone.  I made peace with silence and I stopped fearing it.

I may be reading into what you are writing, but some of what you are saying sounds so much like what I was feeling a year ago.  I remember the desperation to be with someone who could take me out of my own head and my pain for a while.  I remember how angry I felt when my friends got to carry on with their lives that meant that they didn't have time for me, and then how guilty I felt about that anger.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue new friendships and time with others, but I'm wondering if you think you may be running from the pain in doing so. 

   

BG

[RomanticFool]

Hi Zemmma,

I totally understand you feeling defensive. You are hurting right now and feel that you don’t deserve the pain and you are right, you don’t deserve it. You fell in love with somebody who broke your heart. That sucks and now you are trying to find your way through in life and you feel like you’re floundering in the dark. I totally empathise with how you feel.

I was responding to your question on advice about ‘dating’ as opposed to going out for a drink with a ‘friend.’ From what you have said the man in question knows that you are recovering from a break-up and knows that you are not in a place where you are able to have a r/s. Good for you. You were honest. So it’s all fine, is it? Although you did feel awkward getting out of the car.

To reverse the situation a little (and I know this is a completely different scenario from yours) but I am genuinely interested in what your advice would be to me. I was invited out on Friday by a woman I recently met in the rooms of AA. She is around my age group, extremely attractive and seems to want a night of fun. She wants to have a fun night out at the movies watching Mama Mia. I have recently disentangled myself from my exuBPD lover. My wife is going away for two weeks on Wednesday to pursue her hobby with friends, some of them male. My wife and I have not slept together for 9 years. I have had a horrible 18 months detaching from the ex. I deserve a night out right? I know it’s a different situation to yours but my question is, do you think it would be wise to go out on what is on the face of it a fun night out? It’s not this woman’s intentions I am worried about. She very probably just wants friendship and a fun night out. You know who I’m worried about? Me. I have put myself through the mill with this fraught r/s with my exBPD. And more time deciding whether or not I should stay in my marriage. If I go out on this night out with this woman, no harm, no foul, nothing will happen as I’m am not in a position to get involved. In fact I would be insane to get involved in another entanglement. Except, what if I like it? What if it starts a whole emotional train wreck in my head? That’s what I’m worried about. How are my feelings going to be? Does history tell me that it is not advisable? But it’s all a little harmless flirtation isn’t it? What is your advice to me Zemmma?

[Zemmma]

RomanticFool,
Ha! I was hoping no one would catch me on this, but I noticed too that I had named the thread "Advice on Dating" but then wildly defended the "friendship" aspect. I am such a jerk.  You are right about all of that.

But really. Everything I said was true, and some of this developed since I wrote that first post. Thank you all so much for your input. It's really great to have somewhere to go with this.

BeagleGirl,
Yes, you sound like you have walked my path.

The thing is so have I. Many times with this very same man. I have endured serious breakups with him before- starting over 5 years ago. For three months, six months, a year... .The first time he broke up with me I was so "ill" from my marriage and family breakup, and attached to him in a crazy co-dependent messy way that I think I had what I could only describe as a panic attack. I fell down, couldn't breathe, wanted to vomit. I think that all of it was tied to the loss of my husband and family. The guy found me wounded, swooped me up, saved my life when I was in crisis (sleeping 1-2 hours per night, drinking, lost 10 pounds (and I'm really skinny to begin with)... All sorts of rescue and trauma bonding. This first time was so dramatic.

So this time I am an old pro. And a little wiser but it still hurts like the second coming of Satan (hate when I can't swear on here). In previous breakups I booked every night that I would be alone with a different friend. And then I would cry on the walk home. I couldn't be alone.

When my husband left I couldn't go anywhere without music in my ears. My poor kids. Everyone thought I was off. I was.

This time I have been far more calm. I don't mind staying at home alone but I am so isolated with work that I try to leave the house in the evening or at least once a day.

Insom:
I do have good friends, and even two that I share all of this with in startling detail. One that I met at a divorce workshop (she understands surprise midlife divorces) and one who has a narcissistic off-and-on husband. I have great people in my life but there is no social circle, per say. It's usually 1:1. I have people I can call. We just all get busy so there is inevitably lots of time alone.

I just miss this particular person's company. God he gave me a hard time looking back. I just didn't care that much about all of his angst and conflict. Except when he would reject me. That part hurt. And the leaving kills. The rest was just part of the package, part of him who I loved, and it would all just roll off of me and I would just forgive easily, move on and look forward to our next time together- enjoy his cooking and his mind and his body. But he was adding it all up. Every perceived slight. Every conflict. Every grumpy mood or snappy PMS moment... every human flaw. And he couldn't let anything go. He caused so much of our conflict and then hated our relationship for the conflict he caused. Not to say I was perfect. But trust me, he was ridiculous. I am defensive and stubborn, and so forth, but I am reasonably rational, operating on common sense and living general societal norms (like drinking less than 5, and certainly less that 12 drinks on a night out, or ordering one drink at last call, not a pitcher, or going to bed by 1 or 2 a.m., not 6 or 7 a.m. most nights of the week, or wanting to see some sunshine/ waking hours on occasion, and thinking its okay for me to keep my married name since I have had it for 20 years and it is my professional name, and thinking it is okay to ask someone not to go through my phone or my computer, or search all of my closets when I am not home looking for ways to devalue me, or not assuming that my beau is sleeping with every single adult of the opposite sex, including sisters and brothers and BFF's... ). I'm a non. Among the norm. Normal. This guy was very special.

Oh that was so sidebar and such a rant! My point was, I am more calm, not so desperate and fine. But I am also losing my patience. Frustrated. I do want amazing and soon. I have been out of my marriage for over six years, and dumped so many times by this guy since. Too. Much. Pain. I have sat with my pain soo much. I have sat with it in therapy, with friends, by myself, listening to Leonard Cohen music, while travelling, while crying in bed, while writing and reading on here (for over 48 hours in total I see!) and various other websites, you name it. I have written on it, meditated on it, walked the city thinking about it. I think even though I am just 3 months into this breakup its time someone slapped me in the head and said, "Suck it up." "Get over it." "Forget about him." "Just STOP." I think I need some tough love. I think I need to stop denying it. Stop dreaming of his return. Stop imagining him imagining me. Now that he is out of my life I want to cut him out of my head.

RomanticFool: Whoa. On the advice part. Way complicated. You talked about honesty so I guess my first question would be are you in an open relationship with your wife? Was she aware you had a lover? Would you tell her you are going to see a Meryl Streep musical with this woman from AA?

If the answer is yes, I will then give my two cents.

If no, I would say this: From where I sit affairs cause everyone so so so much pain. Everyone. There is very rarely a happy ending for anyone involved. Because you asked I will tell you, I don't recommend an affair to anyone.

Because you asked. My opinion: Open marriage as a mutual life choice OR remain faithful OR leave your marriage to pursue love elsewhere.

[RomanticFool]

Whoa. On the advice part. Way complicated. You talked about honesty so I guess my first question would be are you in an open relationship with your wife? Was she aware you had a lover? Would you tell her you are going to see a Meryl Streep musical with this woman from AA?

If the answer is yes, I will then give my two cents.

If no, I would say this: From where I sit affairs cause everyone so so so much pain. Everyone. There is very rarely a happy ending for anyone involved. Because you asked I will tell you, I don't recommend an affair to anyone.

Because you asked. My opinion: Open marriage as a mutual life choice OR remain faithful OR leave your marriage to pursue love elsewhere.

No I'm not in an open r/s but it's only a harmless night out with a friend. I guess that's my rather clumsy point. I don't think going out with somebody is ever really a bit of harmless fun unless they truly are a friend. If one or other has the thought of a frisson in mind, then it is a date rather than a night out with a friend, isn't it... .
By the way, I said I was busy.

[Zemmma]

Well I disagree.

This is a friend. He has only ever been a friend. For more than 30 years.

He and I are both 100% single. Since you have more than enough company around maybe you don't know what its like to be truly be alone.

I have no one. No husband. No wife. No children 50% of the time, and sometimes for a couple weeks on end.

I will go out for a burger if some other single person asks me. I say yes to invitations because the option is that or Netflix. i say yes to invitations for coffee, not for sex. I'm not crossing a line.

I was really asking about how to handle it, and how to meet people without hurting myself or others while I am still grieving the loss of my love.

[Skip]

Advice on Dating
What is the dating convention for "not ready"

The general convention for "not a date" is to meet the partner (don't be picked up) to pay your way, only do things that you would do with a girlfriend (e.g., don't go on a carriage ride, champaign in a hot tub, or quiet dinner for two at your/his place), and don't do all your socializing with one man (frequency says a lot, so don't be frequent). Hang with the girls. Hang with more than one man.  Nothing more needs to be said. Every man knows what this means - "not now, maybe later, maybe never."

Anything else is sending a message of courting - saying "I'm still getting over a relationship" only says "treat me carefully, I'm interested but vulnerable".

I think both you are right and I think the combination of your thoughts is the answer you seek. 1) Yes, getting out and getting active is CBT 101.  2) A man needs to get the right "bat signal" or he will be in courting mode - it's how men are wired.

Pick up the check.

[RomanticFool]

Zemmma,

My heart goes out to you. It is very difficult moving on from such a profound attachment. Skip’s advice seems to be an excellent solution. I wish you all the best.

RF

[Insom]

But I am also losing my patience. Frustrated. I do want amazing and soon.

Yes!  I can relate!  FWIW, in my experience you get to amazing by making a series of good decisions - they can be about small things - over time.  Is there one thing you can think of you can do today to nudge your life onto a slightly better course?

I have sat with my pain soo much. I have sat with it in therapy, with friends, by myself, listening to Leonard Cohen music . . . I think I need some tough love. I think I need to stop denying it. Stop dreaming of his return. Stop imagining him imagining me. Now that he is out of my life I want to cut him out of my head.

 re: Leonard Cohen.  You won't get tough love from me.  Just support.  There are reasons this is up for you right now so try to take it easy on yourself.  It's great that you're starting to think about denial.  What is real and what is fantasy for you right now?

[RomanticFool]

Leonard Cohen was also my shared music with my ex. I have had to reclaim it for me. Especially: That’s No Way To Say Goodbye. It will get easier in time. I promise.