One minute he loves me, the next he doesn't: breakup threats

[WonderingGirl]

Hello,

I have been in a relationship with a guy who has BPD for almost a year and a half now. The first year was great (He was doing well, got a new job he loved, and was happy for the most part), the last 6 months have been rocky. Both our relationships, and his life outside our relationship (his family, his job). We also started officially living together. More often he has started getting cold, and telling me he doesn't love me, and that he is breaking up with me. Which of course, living together, I just cant up and leave the next day. By the next day though, he suddenly loves me again. I know some of his issues are nothing to do with me at all. He recently lost his job, and last night we had a repeat of the incident. He was very angry playing his video games, and when I finally told him good night, as I was going into bed he started telling me he didn't want to be with me. He told me he didn't love me, and that he doesn't love anyone. then this morning, he was cuddling with me, I woke up to it, and went back to sleep, and a few hours later he is yelling babe, help me with this. Calling me babe, and cuddling has me very confused of the intentions and if we are broken up. I really don't know how to help him, or cope with these sudden shifts.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[isilme]

 

Two words:  Push/Pull.

Hi - this is a pretty common BPD issue, and I'm afraid overall we have to learn to look at overall trends, instead of the day to day comments.  It's a bit like the stock market, with ups and downs all over the place if you look at it zoomed in, but then the overall trend is he cares about you - he just has an emotional disability that stunts his ability to show it consistently. 

Please believe me, your experience is echoed in many forms on this site, because pwBPD get overwhelmed and need to push back against you being too close, but then thy fear you abandoning them, and pull you back in.   To them, in their disordered state, it all makes perfect sense.  They get kinda overwhelmed with feelings, their feelings = their facts, and they have a lack of permanency about things because of this.

If you let your emotions guide everything, then one day, you may absolutely love someone.  They are the best ever, always have been, always will be.  Then, they do one thing, one tiny thing "wrong".  It could be a simple invalidation.  It could have nothing to do with you at all, even.  But suddenly, since you are not perfect, you are bad.  And you've always been bad, and will always be bad.  Until things reset and flip back.  Also, if he is stressed, like about losing his job, and feels uncertain, he tries to make YOU feel uncertain.  Sharing the same feeling, in my observation, seems to be a big motivator.  I think it's them trying to make us validate their feelings, but trying to make us feel the same way.  He's angry?  Poke at you until there's a fight.  He's sad, be nothing but doom and gloom and suddenly you are sinking into the mud in Neverending story.  They have trouble with us having our own thoughts and feelings. 

When I am in a place where I feel strong, and I can marshall my own emotions better, I am able for the most part to say, "This is not permanent.  He is stressed, he is worried, he personally feels worthless, and his BPD means he needs to blame me, and be pretty much ugly to me, to be able to vent all of this.  Knowing it's the BPD, and that it will eventually pass, I try to ignore those bad feelings he tries to trigger.  Far easier said than done.  I try to either ignore or not respond to comments mean to goad me.

I come here to type.  It helps me see patterns.  It helps me vent a bit.  It is a bit of catharsis.  I don't openly talk about this to anyone.  I don't journal at home, I write on here at work, unless I am in a really rough spot and I need to write then and there. 

I hope this makes sense.  I think one thing you can look into is looking up enmeshment, and making sure you are still you, and have some resilience around you fr allowing you to ahve your feelings and distance yourself from how turbulent his are.  Overall, you share a home.  When he "breaks up" what he is really doing is saying "I feel engulfed, I need space, but I can't ask in a healthy way.  BPD makes me all or nothing, so I am telling you I want nothing, but please don't abandon me, I will snap out of it for a while soon."

May I ask your ages?  I know H's BPD overall was really turbulent in his 20s, before I even knew the term.  He said many of the same things, including, "I love you but I am not IN LOVE with you.  But don't leave me, etc."

[WonderingGirl]

Two words:  Push/Pull.

Hi - this is a pretty common BPD issue, and I'm afraid overall we have to learn to look at overall trends, instead of the day to day comments.  It's a bit like the stock market, with ups and downs all over the place if you look at it zoomed in, but then the overall trend is he cares about you - he just has an emotional disability that stunts his ability to show it consistently. 

Please believe me, your experience is echoed in many forms on this site, because pwBPD get overwhelmed and need to push back against you being too close, but then thy fear you abandoning them, and pull you back in.   To them, in their disordered state, it all makes perfect sense.  They get kinda overwhelmed with feelings, their feelings = their facts, and they have a lack of permanency about things because of this.

If you let your emotions guide everything, then one day, you may absolutely love someone.  They are the best ever, always have been, always will be.  Then, they do one thing, one tiny thing "wrong".  It could be a simple invalidation.  It could have nothing to do with you at all, even.  But suddenly, since you are not perfect, you are bad.  And you've always been bad, and will always be bad.  Until things reset and flip back.  Also, if he is stressed, like about losing his job, and feels uncertain, he tries to make YOU feel uncertain.  Sharing the same feeling, in my observation, seems to be a big motivator.  I think it's them trying to make us validate their feelings, but trying to make us feel the same way.  He's angry?  Poke at you until there's a fight.  He's sad, be nothing but doom and gloom and suddenly you are sinking into the mud in Neverending story.  They have trouble with us having our own thoughts and feelings. 

When I am in a place where I feel strong, and I can marshall my own emotions better, I am able for the most part to say, "This is not permanent.  He is stressed, he is worried, he personally feels worthless, and his BPD means he needs to blame me, and be pretty much ugly to me, to be able to vent all of this.  Knowing it's the BPD, and that it will eventually pass, I try to ignore those bad feelings he tries to trigger.  Far easier said than done.  I try to either ignore or not respond to comments mean to goad me.

I come here to type.  It helps me see patterns.  It helps me vent a bit.  It is a bit of catharsis.  I don't openly talk about this to anyone.  I don't journal at home, I write on here at work, unless I am in a really rough spot and I need to write then and there. 

I hope this makes sense.  I think one thing you can look into is looking up enmeshment, and making sure you are still you, and have some resilience around you fr allowing you to ahve your feelings and distance yourself from how turbulent his are.  Overall, you share a home.  When he "breaks up" what he is really doing is saying "I feel engulfed, I need space, but I can't ask in a healthy way.  BPD makes me all or nothing, so I am telling you I want nothing, but please don't abandon me, I will snap out of it for a while soon."

May I ask your ages?  I know H's BPD overall was really turbulent in his 20s, before I even knew the term.  He said many of the same things, including, "I love you but I am not IN LOVE with you.  But don't leave me, etc."

Thank you so much for writing back! I am so glad to have found this site. I feel like anyone I try to talk to always just comes up with one answer: leave. It makes me feel self conscious about talking about the situation at all. I am 24, and he is 23. He was diagnosed in his teens. I also have a 3 year old, and I know that can be super stressful on him at times too, but I also know he really enjoys my child sometimes. A few weeks ago before he got into this funk of a major depression, and lost his job he was trying to teach my son to drive his power wheels. I think things like this are why I know deep down, that he does love me, and while it hurts to hear he doesn't a lot of his actions speak different. I know the extra stress has made things much worse for him personally, I can tell.

To be fair, he does ask for space, and im needy, so I try to weasel my way into his space sometimes when he asks for it, and obviously that backfires. Such as last night. I knew, and I should of stayed away from him for the night. That is something I need to work better on myself.

[pearlsw]

We also started officially living together. More often he has started getting cold, and telling me he doesn't love me, and that he is breaking up with me. Which of course, living together, I just cant up and leave the next day. By the next day though, he suddenly loves me again. I know some of his issues are nothing to do with me at all.

I really don't know how to help him, or cope with these sudden shifts.

Hi WonderningGirl,



Glad you found us here. One of the reasons I stumbled upon this site, in addition to looking for a support group, was desperately searching the internet to figure out why someone would constantly break up a relationship just as you've described. I wish with all my heart I had found this site sooner and I'd had a chance to do something before this became so entrenched.

It has happened to me hundreds of times by my calculation. In the last week at least 3 days in a row of this kind of thing at an excruciatingly painful level. It's rough. It has damaged me a great deal and may soon spell the end of my relationship to my sadness and great disappointment.

Not to scare you! But, I do want you to see if there are ways we can all explore to, if at all possible, alter this dynamic.

How many of the symptoms does he have? Would you consider him high functioning?

wishing you the best, pearl.

[braveSun]

Hi WonderingGirl  

I would like to join isilme and pearlsw and welcome you to bpdfamily. Yes indeed, it's a good place to come share your feelings and learning more about BPD.  If you explore the site a bit, you will find some thoughtful articles and communication tools you can use to help you in your journey. It's definitely not an easy one.

You'll find also that by reading and posting on other people's threads you'll learn a lot more. And it's nice to have a bit of a community with other members who *get it*.

Like you and many people here, I have experienced the push/pull in my own relationship. And yes, I have noticed that when in times of stress, my spouse has been more angry, critical, reactive. She has shown discouragement, and said that she didn't feel 'in love', that sort of thing. Living with BPD traits is not an easy walk in the park, as you suspect.

By learning the best we can and practicing good skills, we can help take off some of the pressures and in turn possibly be a better support for our loved ones.

To be fair, he does ask for space, and im needy, so I try to weasel my way into his space sometimes when he asks for it, and obviously that backfires. Such as last night. I knew, and I should of stayed away from him for the night. That is something I need to work better on myself.  

Something to start with, I would like to see that you are thinking about your needs. You are so right about the backfiring. You got that straight. It's been a hard road for me because I did feel the need to have a full on partner who respond to my needs just like I was to hers. But it didn't happen.

In the process, I became a bit needy too, like you say.  One important point with this was to learn more about my own needs for affection, tenderness, attention, validation of my experience. Some of them could be resolved with posting here on these boards. Because my reality was understood so much better than with my partner. You also have a beautiful son to think about.

What are your thoughts about working better on yourself with this?

Brave

 

[WonderingGirl]

Hi WonderningGirl,



Glad you found us here. One of the reasons I stumbled upon this site, in addition to looking for a support group, was desperately searching the internet to figure out why someone would constantly break up a relationship just as you've described. I wish with all my heart I had found this site sooner and I'd had a chance to do something before this became so entrenched.

It has happened to me hundreds of times by my calculation. In the last week at least 3 days in a row of this kind of thing at an excruciatingly painful level. It's rough. It has damaged me a great deal and may soon spell the end of my relationship to my sadness and great disappointment.

Not to scare you! But, I do want you to see if there are ways we can all explore to, if at all possible, alter this dynamic.

How many of the symptoms does he have? Would you consider him high functioning?

wishing you the best, pearl.

Hi,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. For the most part, I would consider him to be high functioning. I am going to be honest though, and say I have very limited experience with BPD, so im not sure what would be considered high functioning, and how my expectations based on what I have read differ from reality (I hope that makes sense).

Our break ups have certainly been happening more often recently. So far about once a month, maybe twice occasionally since January. Before that there was only one I can recall about 3 months into our relationship, but that stemmed from an inability to participate in an event I was, and I think it stemmed some depression, and such.

He has held a job without problems until last week, when he called out due to being sick. Sick though, is just really a depression he can not seem to get out of. He does not do much, besides sleep, and play video games. I couldn't even get him to go to the grocery store. I would say for the most part he has more lows then anger episodes, but recently those are becoming more frequent. Most really do not have much to do with myself, or they stem from me doing something different then he would in a situation, and it upsets him. He was suicidal ones in our relationship, but thankfully, that Is something that Is under control for now.

[isilme]

To be fair, he does ask for space, and im needy, so I try to weasel my way into his space sometimes when he asks for it, and obviously that backfires

I grew up horribly co-dependent.  I get this.  I felt I could not be happy or feel calm and okay unless everyone else in the house was happy and okay.  And, I also grew up in a house of neglect, so I was ignored a lot and starved for affection.  

I agree if you can make it where you're just okay when he's not ready to share space, find hobbies or things you can contentedly do on your own, you will go a long way to SHOWING him you're there, you're not ditching him, but you're also not engulfing him, it can be okay.  I find telling does very little.   I have to find ways to SHOW.  Sadly, telling is so much faster than SHOWING, but it comes out like JADEing (Justify, Arge, Defend, Explain), which can be a really big BPD trigger.

It's a good boundary for you to simply let him have his funk, check in for a bit but be willing to spend an indeterminate amount of time doing what you can on your own.  I read a lot, take care of chores.  And we both work, so most of the time we have work to keep us from being too enmeshed all day.  

And yeah, the loss of his job is a big blow for him.  He is having trouble processing, and likely feels you will leave him for someone "better", so he thinks he'll just break up first so you can't hurt HIM.  But then he wants you around, because you make him feel better at other times.  Try not to get whiplash with the mood changes.  

[WonderingGirl]

Hi WonderingGirl  

I would like to join isilme and pearlsw and welcome you to bpdfamily. Yes indeed, it's a good place to come share your feelings and learning more about BPD.  If you explore the site a bit, you will find some thoughtful articles and communication tools you can use to help you in your journey. It's definitely not an easy one.

You'll find also that by reading and posting on other people's threads you'll learn a lot more. And it's nice to have a bit of a community with other members who *get it*.

Like you and many people here, I have experienced the push/pull in my own relationship. And yes, I have noticed that when in times of stress, my spouse has been more angry, critical, reactive. She has shown discouragement, and said that she didn't feel 'in love', that sort of thing. Living with BPD traits is not an easy walk in the park, as you suspect.

By learning the best we can and practicing good skills, we can help take off some of the pressures and in turn possibly be a better support for our loved ones.

Something to start with, I would like to see that you are thinking about your needs. You are so right about the backfiring. You got that straight. It's been a hard road for me because I did feel the need to have a full on partner who respond to my needs just like I was to hers. But it didn't happen.

In the process, I became a bit needy too, like you say.  One important point with this was to learn more about my own needs for affection, tenderness, attention, validation of my experience. Some of them could be resolved with posting here on these boards. Because my reality was understood so much better than with my partner. You also have a beautiful son to think about.

What are your thoughts about working better on yourself with this?

Brave

 

I'm so hopeful that talking with people who are experiencing the same thing will help me greatly. It makes me feel a lot better just typing this post today. I love him, and I want to try, but that does also mean battling my own demons too. I can be very needy, and take things to heart. I have to remember to not do some of these things, and come up with my own coping to these things too. This is something big I need to work on, because not everything is my boyfriends fault, and I don't want to blame him for things that are not his. I should express what I want with him, but if he does not want to meet those needs, then I myself need to figure out the source, and see if something I can do can fix it too. I need to be able to work well on my own, too.

[pearlsw]

Hi,
I would consider him to be high functioning. I am going to be honest though, and say I have very limited experience with BPD, so im not sure what would be considered high functioning, and how my expectations based on what I have read differ from reality (I hope that makes sense).

Our break ups have certainly been happening more often recently. So far about once a month, maybe twice occasionally since January. Before that there was only one I can recall about 3 months into our relationship, but that stemmed from an inability to participate in an event I was, and I think it stemmed some depression, and such.

He has held a job without problems until last week, when he called out due to being sick. Sick though, is just really a depression he can not seem to get out of. 

Hi WonderningGirl,

With you being new here, I thought that might be a pretty tough question to assess - about how high functioning he is. Sorry to spring that on ya!

My SO only has about 4 of the traits if I remember correctly, would not meet the diagnosis, but those traits are a whole lot! He is high functioning in that he has a great, high level job and is highly educated, etc. And manages more or less, other than in his relationship with me.

Can you tell us about what he says?

with compassion, pearl.

[WonderingGirl]

Hi WonderningGirl,

With you being new here, I thought that might be a pretty tough question to assess - about how high functioning he is. Sorry to spring that on ya!

My SO only has about 4 of the traits if I remember correctly, would not meet the diagnosis, but those traits are a whole lot! He is high functioning in that he has a great, high level job and is highly educated, etc. And manages more or less, other than in his relationship with me.

Can you tell us about what he says?

with compassion, pearl.

Hi Pearl,
Tough questions are good! I would like to think my BF is highly functioning and could hold a high level job and such, but his past gets in the way of that and I think that messes him up more.

Hes go tos are usually telling me in stupid (for some action he does not agree up), and i know he is working in therapy to change this. He also likes to tell me a lot that he no longer likes me anymore. With this phrase his whole demeanor changes to one that is just cold. Like he has no emotion in his voice. I actually feel like he can have to totally different personalities sometimes.

Last night, it was a lot of him saying he wants me to leave, he doesn't like me anymore, and he doesnt love me. Today he is not as cold, and we spent some time together, but hes still saying that he broke up with me. I'm not pushing the subject, I'm just treasuring the good moments with him. The ones that show joy about me being there (in my opinion of course).

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear about the break up threats.  They are really hard to hear. 

That's very wise of you to recognize what you are bringing to the situation and to be determined to work on that.  You can only control you, and you'll get a lot more for your efforts trying to change your own behavior than his.

You may not be able to solve the breakup threat problem, but you can certainly learn how to not make it worse.  Just like animals, humans modify their behavior in response to rewards.  Getting attention and feeling like someone wants you is a huge reward.  When we rush in and try to make things all better, or otherwise try to reach out and reconnect with our pwBPD who have just rejected us, we are actually rewarding them for rejecting us.  Their bad habit will become worse!

The best thing to do is to not give them attention, positive or negative, for the breakup threat.  Say something like, "I can't make you stay together if you want to leave, but I believe in us; we can be a good team if we have faith in each other," then walk away and give them space.  You should also make sure he's hearing statements of faith and getting attention from you that works for him at other times, so this statement of faith is just business as usual (no special attention for the threat).  The statement is almost more for you than for him, kind of permission for you to walk away.

Once you walk away, concentrate on activities that make you feel good.  Exercise, read, call a friend, take a bath, etc.  If you leave, let him know where you're going and when you'll be back.  Our pwBPD tend to have patterns and sometimes we can predict roughly when they'll be ready to reconnect.  When they are, they often make a "bid" for attention, calling out to us, asking us a question, etc.  You can sometimes arrange it so when you think a "bid" might be likely you're nearby, but are engaged in activities for yourself or chores so you're not applying any pressure on him and he can choose to initiate contact.

Does this make sense?  When he pushes you away, is there a typical amount of time before he is ready for contact again, or does it vary?  How does he show you that he's ready for contact again?

WW

[WonderingGirl]

I'm sorry to hear about the break up threats.  They are really hard to hear. 

That's very wise of you to recognize what you are bringing to the situation and to be determined to work on that.  You can only control you, and you'll get a lot more for your efforts trying to change your own behavior than his.

You may not be able to solve the breakup threat problem, but you can certainly learn how to not make it worse.  Just like animals, humans modify their behavior in response to rewards.  Getting attention and feeling like someone wants you is a huge reward.  When we rush in and try to make things all better, or otherwise try to reach out and reconnect with our pwBPD who have just rejected us, we are actually rewarding them for rejecting us.  Their bad habit will become worse!

The best thing to do is to not give them attention, positive or negative, for the breakup threat.  Say something like, "I can't make you stay together if you want to leave, but I believe in us; we can be a good team if we have faith in each other," then walk away and give them space.  You should also make sure he's hearing statements of faith and getting attention from you that works for him at other times, so this statement of faith is just business as usual (no special attention for the threat).  The statement is almost more for you than for him, kind of permission for you to walk away.

Once you walk away, concentrate on activities that make you feel good.  Exercise, read, call a friend, take a bath, etc.  If you leave, let him know where you're going and when you'll be back.  Our pwBPD tend to have patterns and sometimes we can predict roughly when they'll be ready to reconnect.  When they are, they often make a "bid" for attention, calling out to us, asking us a question, etc.  You can sometimes arrange it so when you think a "bid" might be likely you're nearby, but are engaged in activities for yourself or chores so you're not applying any pressure on him and he can choose to initiate contact.

Does this make sense?  When he pushes you away, is there a typical amount of time before he is ready for contact again, or does it vary?  How does he show you that he's ready for contact again?

WW

Thanks for the reply. Everything you said makes sense. I do have to work harder to not reward that  behavior. He main thing this time is he wants me to leave the house. (Which is simply not feasible in a few days) I've paid bills with my own money. Have lots of stuff and no where to really go. So I'm giving him qs much space as I can. Such as taking myself and my son out til bedtime. I'm saying good night to him, and maybe joining him for a few minutes of video games if he doesnt tell me to go away. Then I go to bed. He still says we are broken up.

This has been the longest it takes for him to come around. Normally it's no more than 8 hours later. Hes really mixed this time. If he initiates, fine... .  such as he will come get into bed with me, or cuddle with me when he could of slept somewhere else. If we are doing okay, and nothing has made him upset in the moment he will talk civilly to me,  and such. But the minute I try to initiate anything such as a hug before bedtime his response is that he broke up with me. Yesterday morning he goes I'm stupid and of course I ask why and he does I dont even know why I broke up with you. And yhen starts talking about how he didnt want to go to therapy.

But he was also telling me last night during one of my sons tantrums that he doesnt like him anymore and that's how he knows it's notgoing to work. 

So I have no idea as this is new.

[braveSun]

  But he was also telling me last night during one of my sons tantrums that he doesn't like him anymore and that's how he knows it's not going to work. 

I'm sorry that you had to hear such thing about your son.   

And him telling you to leave the house...    

The 'not loving you anymore', cold talk stuff, and these things said above seem to be typical of BPD dispositions. Try as much as you can to de-personalize.

I know it's not easy.

You seem to be doing nice things, just you and your son. It's a good thing.
Do you get any chance to relax a bit?

Brave

 

[once removed]

Yesterday morning he goes I'm stupid and of course I ask why and he does I dont even know why I broke up with you. And yhen starts talking about how he didnt want to go to therapy.

this is interesting. often times when people use break up threats, its a way of getting our way, in one form or another... .for example, it could even be to force a conversation thats otherwise difficult to have.

how do you usually respond when he "breaks up with you"... .how does it play out between you? when he tries to reconnect, does it come back up?

[WonderingGirl]

I'm sorry that you had to hear such thing about your son.   

And him telling you to leave the house...    

The 'not loving you anymore', cold talk stuff, and these things said above seem to be typical of BPD dispositions. Try as much as you can to de-personalize.

I know it's not easy.

You seem to be doing nice things, just you and your son. It's a good thing.
Do you get any chance to relax a bit?

Brave

 

I don't have much relax time between work and my son. I can have a break from my so whenever I need though. He has a room that he just hangs out in, and I have another If I need to. The house is big enough where we can have our own separate spaces when needed.

[WonderingGirl]

this is interesting. often times when people use break up threats, its a way of getting our way, in one form or another... .for example, it could even be to force a conversation thats otherwise difficult to have.

how do you usually respond when he "breaks up with you"... .how does it play out between you? when he tries to reconnect, does it come back up?

Im not sure what he is expecting to get from these threats, Hmm. He always changes his mind rather quickly.

I have two responses, and I admit that I go between the two depending on the type of mood im in. I either do a lot of crying because im already stressed, and it stresses me, or I just tell him im sorry he feels that way and leave it be. This time around he asked me why I like him, and told me he was bad, and I shouldn't like him. So I did cry a little, because I felt so bad that he thinks he is bad. I told him that I don't think he is a bad person. He also assured me he didn't love me, but it wasn't because of anything I did or didn't do. He left it at that, and was cold otherwise. This time has been the worst.

When we reconnect, its normally him apologizing a few hours later. Saying something like he is sorry he has issues, and such. Then we just go back to how things were. This time around we are on day 3, and he is talking to me like we are friends. Like texting me, and playing some video games with me. I tried to give him a hug last night and he was like I broke up with you, and didn't want to give me a hug. This time is a more mixed, and out of the usual. This morning though, he was texting me with some vulnerability telling me how stupid he felt for sleeping through his alarm. He has yet to apologize or anything that makes it seem like he does want a relationship though.

[once removed]

ideally, its something that you want to phase out of your relationship, because its hurtful and confusing to you, and its all around not healthy for the relationship. you can communicate these things and try to get on the same page about it (in a time of calm), see if you can come to an agreement. having said that, i wouldnt jump in and try to do so at this point, and of course you cannot force him to stop.

one technique to start with might be to just get to the root of whats bugging him in the moment, and focus on that.

This time around he asked me why I like him, and told me he was bad, and I shouldn't like him. So I did cry a little, because I felt so bad that he thinks he is bad. I told him that I don't think he is a bad person. He also assured me he didn't love me, but it wasn't because of anything I did or didn't do. He left it at that, and was cold otherwise. This time has been the worst.

this is a perfect example of where you might try it.

low self esteem usually runs hand in hand with BPD. lots of feelings of unworthiness and that they are "bad". that sort of thing isnt something you can fix or love away. you can certainly love and support, though.

think of it this way: we all have things about us we are self conscious about or flat out dont like about ourselves. i have a funny nose. im not sore about it, im comfortable with it, but i still firmly believe at the end of the day, that i have a funny nose. you cant convince me otherwise. to try might even feel invalidating (especially in the case of BPD, where these things tend to be deep, core beliefs, the same as "the sky is blue". to stretch the analogy, if i meet someone and they start complimenting my nose, and telling me how great it is, its going to come off as insincere and im gonna wonder whats up.

so you dont want to invalidate (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating), and you definitely dont want to directly validate like for example, agree with him that hes a bad person. but there is a step you can take that shifts the focus off the "breakup", gets to the root of what hes trying to communicate, and can help him self soothe.

and that technique is called the power of asking validating questions: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

This time around we are on day 3, and he is talking to me like we are friends. Like texting me, and playing some video games with me. I tried to give him a hug last night and he was like I broke up with you, and didn't want to give me a hug.

thats a clear message that he needs space and physical affection makes him uncomfortable right now. there arent a lot of good options short of respecting that, though spending time with him on things like video games, when he requests it, are good. if he opens up, about anything really, id start practicing asking validating questions. do a lot of listening, do less talking or trying to fix things for him, primarily sympathize and let him feel heard. that may help him feel more connected to you in the short and long term.

[WonderingGirl]

ideally, its something that you want to phase out of your relationship, because its hurtful and confusing to you, and its all around not healthy for the relationship. you can communicate these things and try to get on the same page about it (in a time of calm), see if you can come to an agreement. having said that, i wouldnt jump in and try to do so at this point, and of course you cannot force him to stop.

one technique to start with might be to just get to the root of whats bugging him in the moment, and focus on that.

this is a perfect example of where you might try it.


low self esteem usually runs hand in hand with BPD. lots of feelings of unworthiness and that they are "bad". that sort of thing isnt something you can fix or love away. you can certainly love and support, though.

think of it this way: we all have things about us we are self conscious about or flat out dont like about ourselves. i have a funny nose. im not sore about it, im comfortable with it, but i still firmly believe at the end of the day, that i have a funny nose. you cant convince me otherwise. to try might even feel invalidating (especially in the case of BPD, where these things tend to be deep, core beliefs, the same as "the sky is blue". to stretch the analogy, if i meet someone and they start complimenting my nose, and telling me how great it is, its going to come off as insincere and im gonna wonder whats up.

so you dont want to invalidate (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating), and you definitely dont want to directly validate like for example, agree with him that hes a bad person. but there is a step you can take that shifts the focus off the "breakup", gets to the root of what hes trying to communicate, and can help him self soothe.

and that technique is called the power of asking validating questions: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

thats a clear message that he needs space and physical affection makes him uncomfortable right now. there arent a lot of good options short of respecting that, though spending time with him on things like video games, when he requests it, are good. if he opens up, about anything really, id start practicing asking validating questions. do a lot of listening, do less talking or trying to fix things for him, primarily sympathize and let him feel heard. that may help him feel more connected to you in the short and long term.

I think the biggest thing is that he doesn't have the alone time he used to. With me, and my son there his solo time is gone. He is a person that needs time on his own, and im starting to see that. So, he starts to get annoyed with small things, and turns them into big deals because he just needs a break. At least that is what I get from my recentish observations. Saturday me and my son are going out with a friend, and then he also has been having a lot of time alone during the day. So I think that is helping a little.

I know he has really low self esteem, specifically in one area. So I do my best to assure him that I like what he has, whenever I can, but I also don't try to say that what he thinks is not also true. I just stick to saying that I can only speak for myself, and I like it. I hope that is the proper way.

[WonderingGirl]

Update:
We are now on day 4ish of being broken up. This is the longest ever. Last night, I worked my second job, so me and my son did not get home until 9:30. SO had almost the whole day alone. When I got home, my son was a wreck, so this upset him a little. I don't blame him, it bothers me. He preceded to tell me that his fit throwing was annoying, and that he was acting retarded (I chalk this up So just not being around many 3 year olds).
We hung out while he played video games for bit, and ended up having sex (I started this, and he was on board). We talked a bit, until I got to serious, and he was done with it. Then I dropped it. As I was going to bed the first time, I told him I was going to bed, and he was like oh, so I was like what else should I do? and he was like, watch me play some video games, and so I did for a few rounds. I was exhausted and told him I was really going to bed now. He choose to give me a couple kisses good night. This morning he gave me a kiss good bye. his choice.

At some point though, he asked me if I really didn't believe him breaking up with me was real. I was like I know what is real, and I know what I want, and I know you love me, and kind of left it at that. He said that this time was it, and that we are really broken up. This was before the goodnight kisses, but after the first talk, which was him focused. I'm not really sure what is going on anymore. Just that he doesn't want to be together, and he has no problem telling me he doesn't like me, but also is kissing me goodnight by his choice, and still plans to go to fair with me in a few weeks.

[WonderingGirl]

Update:
So, he still does not want to be together, and is sending the biggest mixed signals. Im heart broken to be honest. He half acts like everything is okay, but then again doesn't. He is kissing me goodnight, and is talking to me like nothing is different. He has called me babe a few times, and jokes and calls me mama like he was. Last night he got in bed, and cuddled with me. His choice. Today I joked that he almost pushed me off the bed, and he was just like its my bed. I moved on to a new topic. I then asked if he wanted to play one of his video games with me tonight. He said no. I aksed why not, and am still waiting for a reply. I already feel like I should not of asked that though. My heart is breaking, and staying there trying to 'win' him back over is making things worse for me. I should try to leave I guess. I just don't know what else to do. I just want to cry. I just want him want to be in a relationship with me again. 

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry for how discouraging this is.  Breakup threats, half breakups, mixed signals, etc. are all miserable to be on the receiving end of.  We are frustrated because we never seem to get the rational discussion of the relationship that we crave.  Feeling like leaving is natural.  And at some point if you decide that's the best path for you, it may be the thing to do.  But one challenge we have as "nons" is to not let our emotions and thoughts about the future fluctuate along with our BPD partner.  This counts both for the ups and the downs.  When they push us away, we have to try to not think that the relationship is nothing, that they never loved us.  When they pull us towards them, we have to avoid the temptation to believe that all is well forevermore.  We kind of have to take the average of our whole experience and decide if the sum of all these ups and downs is something we want to live with.

Near term, I'd give it some time.  Think about your boundaries.  Are you OK having sex with someone who has broken up with you?  Don't try to control him or be punitive, but make sure you're not doing anything that makes you feel worse.  If the lines between in-relationship behaviors and just-apartmentmate behaviors are blurred, he can switch from one status to the other every day without any consequence.  While you can't control him, if you allow ambiguity it can make things worse.

Have you tried flirting with him?  Tell him his kisses are magic and if he kisses you then you are definitely not broken up for 24 hours (or one week, or whatever).  Tell him that certain actions that he initiates mean to you that you're not broken up.  This could be considered a type of boundary setting (your response to boyfriend actions by him is to not believe that you are broken up).  If you make these things clear to him, you are also giving him a way to say with actions something that he is not saying with words.  I'm brainstorming here, so don't take these thoughts as gospel.  What do you think?  What do others think?  I may be way off base; if so, someone please speak up!

Remember, in the paragraph above, I'm talking about tactics to better the situation in the near term.  Averaged over time, long-term, you need to feel the love that you need to feel.  You need to feel as secure as you need to feel.  Figure that out, and make sure over the long haul you get what you need.

WW

[WonderingGirl]

Wentworth,

Thank you for your response. It is certainly discouraging, and I am trying to do my best to keep my emotions out of it. I want to give it some time, but its a strange situation, as all my stuff and my sons stuff is there, so I cant up and leave like he sometimes wants. Ive been trying to be as fun, and on his page as I can. Ive been offering to play his video games with him, and watching him play. Last night, I poked my head into his man cave, and he was watching a show, which he let me join on watching for a bit until I went to bed.

Last night we spent most of the night together. Some was good, someone was not so good. Of course, I love him deeply, and this time im having a hard time separating my emotions as its been so long this time. We joke, and talk, and I enjoy it, and it seems in the moment he does, but then seconds later his whole attitude can change, and then he is just telling me that he wants me to leave, and the a few minutes later he is joking with me again.

We did have some decent conversations last night. He was telling me he feels trapped, and its not all because of me, but because of his curfew too. That he is having a difficult time with this. He was begging me to leave immediately at one point. To like just leave and go sleep at my dads. I did not back down to me telling him no on this. Im not just up and leaving, because all my stuff is there. I have to pack it all, and speak with my dad, and go clear out my old room at my dads if I am going to leave.  Plus, I have to shut off internet, and trash, and we have to figure out the joint loan we have.

So, I wasn't backing to this demand. Which, I feel is the right thing. We talked about how he doesn't know if he loves me, and I told him I know him and his actions, and I think he does. But I know for a fact he cares atleast, and trusts me. It took him a while, but later on he admitted I was right, and that he cared. He talked about how he doesn't know what he wants, and he might want to try to have a boyfriend. This is something that we have talked about before in a sense. Of course, I told him I love him no matter what. He then went off to play some video games.

Before going to bed, when I went to watch the show with him. He said a few more things. He asked me if he changed, I changed, or if it was both of us. He wants things to be like they were when we first started dating. I do too, but I didn't push on this. He also was telling me how much he hated going to lunch with his grandma today. not because of his grandma, but because he had to leave the house. He also told me he thinks about dying. I can see he is depressed, and this he is hitting points of feeling no emotions. Ive been watching it for a few weeks now. Like, he isn't happy go lucky like he was a month ago. He doesn't want to admit it, but I watch and I know. I know he is not the bad guy he thinks he is, and that he does love me and my son. Just not when he feels nothing.

[pearlsw]

He talked about how he doesn't know what he wants, and he might want to try to have a boyfriend. This is something that we have talked about before in a sense. Of course, I told him I love him no matter what. He then went off to play some video games.

Hi WondernigGirl,

Do I understand correctly that your partner might be interested in exploring his sexual identity? Has he been with guys before? Could his depression be related to this?

Or am I missing something here?

wishing you the best, pearl.

[WonderingGirl]

Hi WondernigGirl,

Do I understand correctly that your partner might be interested in exploring his sexual identity? Has he been with guys before? Could his depression be related to this?

Or am I missing something here?

wishing you the best, pearl.

Hi Pearl,
He has been with both girls and guys before me. From what I have understood from our past conversations, he prefers guys sexually, but prefers girls emotionally. We spoke previously about having an openish relationship so he could fulfill both he needs. As this was something I didn't mind to much because I do not have male parts. It sounds like a thought is that he wants to be with a guy, and maybe have a relationship with a guy. But upon hearing what he wants, he does not want to actually be out and open about the fact he likes guys too. I am one of the only few people who know this about him.

I don't think the depression is related to this. As the depression started during a major shift of losing a good friend, and having some family troubles. I think that he just loses himself when he is depressed. Not that possibly wanting to date a guy has to do with losing himself. Just he checks out. Hes not looking for jobs, he isn't talking to anyone. It took him a week to even admit that he does care about me to himself. I think wanting to be with a guy just comes from a desire he has, and has had. ITs of course, hard to have both.

[pearlsw]

I don't think the depression is related to this. As the depression started during a major shift of losing a good friend, and having some family troubles. I think that he just loses himself when he is depressed. Not that possibly wanting to date a guy has to do with losing himself. Just he checks out. Hes not looking for jobs, he isn't talking to anyone. It took him a week to even admit that he does care about me to himself. I think wanting to be with a guy just comes from a desire he has, and has had. ITs of course, hard to have both.

Hi WondernigGirl,

Okay, got it about the depression! I wasn't sure if he might be repressing his desires, but it sounds nice that he is able to express them and you accept him and are open to various possibilities that work for you both.

Is his depression being treated? My SO is depressed too and I sure hope your guy is getting treatment! I know how hard it can be to be in the support role. It can have a huge impact on you when your partner is depressed!

As I've said, breakup threats are pretty miserable I know from personal experience. You are still under the same roof currently though, it's just not clear to you if you are together because he fluctuates?

Tell me, in your gut, how do you feel about this and what are your limits on this?

take care, pearl.

[SummerStorm]

There are a lot of tough things about being in any type of relationship with a pwBPD, but if someone were to ask me what the most difficult thing is, I would say push/pull, without a doubt.  I'm currently going through it with my BPD friend.  Last week, we spent a really nice day together.  She bought me an early birthday present, and then on the night before my birthday, she texted me happy birthday with lots of balloon and cake emojis at 10:45 because she "just couldn't wait until midnight" to send it.  Two days ago, we were having a funny conversation.  But then yesterday, I said one thing that made her mad, and she just went off on me.  Our conversation started out normal, and within a few texts, I was blocked and told "byeeee, b____h." 

As has been mentioned multiple times on here, stress, depression, problems at work, etc. can make things a lot worse.  It can be very difficult for us to know when something we say might lead to a breakup or when it could just lead to a few hours of anger followed by everything being back to "normal," with the pwBPD acting like nothing happened. 

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for you to not know where you stand.  My situation is different because my pwBPD is a friend, but my biggest advice is to try to look for patterns.  Even though a lot of BPD behavior can seem erratic, I have found that there are certain patterns that an individual tends to follow.  That's where I personally went wrong yesterday.  A few days ago, my friends alluded to the fact that there's a lot going on in her life, and so even though she was at an amusement park with her boyfriend yesterday and we had joked the day before, I failed to take into consideration that there were things below the surface that have been stressing her out. 

As others have said, make sure you take time for yourself and take care of your own needs.  pwBPD have a remarkable ability to overcome their challenges, even when it seems that they have hit rock bottom.

[WonderingGirl]

Hi WondernigGirl,

Okay, got it about the depression! I wasn't sure if he might be repressing his desires, but it sounds nice that he is able to express them and you accept him and are open to various possibilities that work for you both.

Is his depression being treated? My SO is depressed too and I sure hope your guy is getting treatment! I know how hard it can be to be in the support role. It can have a huge impact on you when your partner is depressed!

As I've said, breakup threats are pretty miserable I know from personal experience. You are still under the same roof currently though, it's just not clear to you if you are together because he fluctuates?

Tell me, in your gut, how do you feel about this and what are your limits on this?

take care, pearl.

Hi Pearl,



I think we click so well because he can be honest about his desire with me, and I don't judge. There are a few things that others may find questionable and make fun of him for if he told them. I have never done that, and it makes me know deep down he trusts me, and relizes what I can offer in that trust and such.

We have been under the same roof since he broke up with me. I pay all the bills, except rent which he mom pays. I didn't want to leave until I used all my 'bills' up. Like I didn't want to waste half a month of internet to cancel it early. I used that as an excuse to stay, even though I knew he would come back around. So that was my main reason.

I will give an over update in a few minutes. I know he cares about me, and loves me and my son. I know right now he is having a hard time, and skipping therapy is not helping him at all. I think he is just having a difficult time  right now, especially with my son. He is throwing major bedtime fits, which are very upsetting. My boyfriend also has some empathy traits, and sometimes feels other peoples feelings really bad. Which I know is kind of unusual. But I think my sons anger lately for bedtime is also feeding his anger. As long as we have more good days then bad days, and he can be good to my son I will stay. When that turns, I will have to walk away. Right now, im on the line because he is not a fan of my son, and is even telling me he hates him, and thinks he is retarded. I don’t think he feels these things on a typically day, only when my son is fit throwing and such. Which just happens to be everyday lately.

[pearlsw]

Hi Pearl,

We have been under the same roof since he broke up with me. I pay all the bills, except rent which he mom pays. I didn't want to leave until I used all my 'bills' up. Like I didn't want to waste half a month of internet to cancel it early. I used that as an excuse to stay, even though I knew he would come back around. So that was my main reason.

I will give an over update in a few minutes. I know he cares about me, and loves me and my son. I know right now he is having a hard time, and skipping therapy is not helping him at all. I think he is just having a difficult time  right now, especially with my son.

Hi WondernigGirl,

Oh, I see! Thank you for providing more detail about what is going on and how all of you are interacting.  

That must be very hard to hear him speak about your son in that way!  It sounds as if the stress of the child's behavior is a lot for him to deal with. That is something you can validate, while also not validating the invalid. It's really not nice to describe the child in this way.

I wonder if some of the tension could be reduced by him leaving the home for awhile around bedtime so he is exposed to less of the bedtime struggles. Any chance he could go take a walk at that time? I would demand it, just suggest it in a nice way. Hey, I know it's a stressful part of the day at bedtime, what do you think of going for a walk at that time so it doesn't add to your stress? Or at least, if possible, let him be in another part of the home where he might hear it less? Or he could put some headphones on and listen to music? Basically, he's part of the routine too!

Does he mention the break up all the time? Is his expectation, if this really happened, that you would leave the home?

wishing you the best, pearl.