How long is too long before refusing to discuss the past II

[Enabler]

WC... .I think you misunderstand my point re EMDR, it’s jot that I am suggesting this is the solution, the point was about how ‘things’, ‘events’, ‘trauma’ gets stuck. For her it’s as though every day she wakes up and says “I’ve totally forgiven WC for being unfaithful, I just can’t continue feeling this”, goes downstairs and makes a coffee still having forgiven you... .then BOOM, we heard the sound of a text message ring tone, the same text message ring tone she heard whilst you were having an affair, she suspected it and knew it was from HER. ALL the emotions, all the physical sensations such as the swelling brain, the sweats, the tingling in the legs, the feeling of nausea... .tha abject panic comes back... .all because of a random totally unassociated stimuli... .a trigger... .takes her right back there. This has been going on for so so so long now that it’s no longer concious, all she knows is it happens and it’s not something she can control. Tie this with BPD traits which I’m assuming pre-dates the affair she can’t own these feelings nor has the tools to process and file them... .so from her perspective since she still relives the experience, you cannot have atoned for your sins. So now she’s straight back to needing to forgive you... .EVERYDAY

As stated this is a constant emotional stimulus to her. I like using the pint glass analogy, the glass is ones capacity to tolerate negative emotions before we dysregulate (enter the red zone, move to fight of flight INSTINCTS, become narcissistic, rage, destroy everything in our path). Start adding water, each drop is negative emotional stimulus, job, kids, weather, bills, FOO, traffic. When you get to the top that’s your capacity, you overflow and bad stuff happens. Now this daily reliving of your affair (and probably other things) keeps her pint glass half full making any negative stimuli likely to tip her over the edge into BPD wonderland.

My point remains, you can’t solve this for her.

Am I being dramatic, maybe, but I’ve started to believe that most if not 99.99999999% of people are trying to do the right thing. They are trying to do what makes sense to them. It may not make sense to us, but to them it makes sense and what she is saying makes sense to her. Even Hitler thought he was doing good... .make sense of that!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I really feel for you and can relate in some ways. This is a tough place to be. I think everyone has given great advice too.

The "eye" thing referred to here is EMDR. I've been doing EMDR with my therapist for a few years now (I have PTSD from abuse) and I believe it saved my life. It's a fantastic tool but it may not be right for everyone. I have no idea if your wife has experienced trauma to the point where EMDR would  help. My ex thought he did but several therapists told him it wouldn't help him.

The emotional memory resonates with me. I hope I get this right (sometimes I feel like Tim from Home Improvement when Wilson gives great advice and Tim doesn't always get it right when he tries to explain it to someone else... ). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! In doing EMDR therapy, I learned that a traumatic event can cause emotions to get stored and stuck in a queue because we didn't have a safe place to process it and let it go. So when something triggers a traumatic event that may have happened years ago, we can relieve that event (and/or the associated emotions) as if it just happened. So when a particular emotion is felt, it can possibly bring up every event in the past where we felt that same emotion, flashbacks.

With BPD, it seems very similar to me. My ex is uBPD\NPD and seems to behave the way your wife does. He still brings up stuff that happened many years ago that I had thought we had dealt with over and over again.  We were together for close to twenty years.  It's like he can't move on or let go of a lot of perceived injustices. So it seems to me that something triggers him and he probably feels a particular emotion which brings up every single event from the past (or very specific ones) where he felt the same way. Because I triggered it, it's my fault (in his mind). He doesn't have a healthy way of dealing or coping with it and uses me as his verbal / emotional punching bag in hopes to make him feel better. Being on the receiving end really sucks! It seems like he's stuck and doesn't know how to move on and thinks bashing me will magically make it all better. It doesn't, though, and it repeats. I have to remove myself from the equation to break the cycle. I do that by refusing to participate in a discussion we've had over and over and over again through the years where nothing changed. I tell him we've already discussed that before (many times), nothing changed, and I do not want to discuss it again. And I don't.

Personally, I wouldn't mention anything about "fixing" her or that she will probably perceive as fixing her. My ex was like that too and it never went well. I was always the problem (and still is) in his mind. He kept trying to "fix" me and it drove me nuts! It's up to me to decide if I want to be "fixed" and it's up to me on how to do that, not him. If I want/need help, I'll ask. As others have mentioned, it's up to her to decide if she has issues she needs to work on or not. All you can do is you.

Having said that, I had to learn to disengage when my ex dysregulated and so on. It wasn't easy. For me, I had to imagine an invisible shield around me that nothing could get in. It helped me to not react emotionally in the moment. It helped me to keep a clear head so that I could deal with the situation appropriately. It seemed to me that he was usually looking for a fight. It probably makes him feel better in some ways. I refused to give him a fight as much as I could. I think sometimes he "needs" chaos/conflict to feel something, like adrenaline or something like that. When I didn't react emotionally the way he expected or wanted me to, he then claimed I was a cold heartless <fill in the blank>, etc. It also felt like he needed me to be "unstable" so he could be the "stable" one and/or he could blame me for his emotional distress when most of the time it wasn't because of me. He tends to have black and white thinking, as well as magical thinking. I later figured out that I had unintentionally triggered deep fears of abandonment in him from his childhood that he had never dealt with. He still hasn't dealt with it, by the way. Knowing this really helped me to realize that most of what he's experiencing emotionally in the moment probably has deep ties to his childhood and I have absolutely nothing to do with that. I also can't do anything about that except maybe try to validate he's feeling a particular emotion (or combination of emotions) in that moment. That doesn't mean it's my fault. That doesn't mean he's right and I'm wrong.

What doesn’t make sense to me is claiming that she has forgiven but acting the exact opposite

Sometimes I can't wrap my head around why he does or says the things he does. His words and actions don't match. I've learned to chalk it up to he's probably reacting emotionally in that moment and it may not have anything to do with me. He blames me for a LOT of things. Most of it has nothing to do with me and is projection. That's where therapy helped me know who I am and that while I am responsible for my actions, I can only do so much. The past is the past. I can't change it.

So my advice is to think about changing the way you react to her. Something needs to change and it doesn't sound like she is going to change anytime soon OR a catalyst of some sort is needed to invoke change. I find it similar to parenting a toddler in some ways. They are feeling something, don't know the right words, don't know how to deal with it in a healthy way, and sometimes expect you to fix it. With my ex, in all seriousness, I think he's very emotionally immature and never "grew up" emotionally. It makes it very difficult to understand and deal with at times.

I hope this helps. Sometimes I feel like I'm rambling.  

[Enabler]

Another helpful resource, the 20 rules of BPD:

www.anythingtostopthepain.com/20-rules-for-understanding-BPD/

Rule 1: "All time is in the present. If something makes me feel bad now, it is linked directly to the greatest pain I ever experienced — and that pain is happening now, too. Time can’t heal any wounds because time never really passes. Everything – past, present, and future — is NOW."

[Woodchuck]

Another helpful resource, the 20 rules of BPD:

www.anythingtostopthepain.com/20-rules-for-understanding-BPD/

Rule 1: "All time is in the present. If something makes me feel bad now, it is linked directly to the greatest pain I ever experienced — and that pain is happening now, too. Time can’t heal any wounds because time never really passes. Everything – past, present, and future — is NOW."

That has got to be a horrible place to be, I mean that in the most empathetic way possible.  I cannot imagine having to live 'trapped' like that.

[Woodchuck]

I_Am_On_Fire
Your last line made me laugh a bit.   I don't think you were rambling, but if you were, I tend to ramble just as much.  I don't know how many times I have sat down and purposed to write a short post and then it ends up being the exact opposite.  I agree that everyone has given great advice and if nothing else, it is really helpful to have others involved and giving input.  I am humbled when I see the amount of time people put in to trying to help.

I am slowly working on disengaging and using short answers with my W.  It is a process as I enjoy talking/debating etc and I can get quite 'wordy'.  If you look up JADE in the dictionary, my picture is next to it.  It has helped to realize what I am doing though and working on pulling back and just letting things be what they are.  I really like your idea of an invisible shield.  It makes a lot of sense to look at it that way.  I think that you are spot on with their need for us to be unstable and my W has been very successful in making that happen (it has really been my choice) over the course of our relationship.  As I am grounding myself more and not getting sucked in to the negative 'dances', I feel much more calm.  It does take a lot of work and discipline to not respond to all the nasty things that are said.  I was having a discussion with her last night and she had plenty to say including telling me that I am a proud and sick individual.  This was in direct response to me telling her that I understood how hurtful and frustrating it would be to be hurt deeply and then be blamed for it.  Her mindset is that I 'broke' her and I am now blaming her for being broken.  In reality, nothing could be farther from the truth but I know now that it does absolutely no good to try and explain that to her.  I just need to let the arrows fly and put up that shield that you were talking about.  Our conversation last night was revolving around the $4K affair recovery program that she found.  I had told her that I was willing to go but did not have the financial ability to pay for it.  She has 60-80k in the bank, so the money is not really an issue for her.  I would have to put it on credit and she hates credit, so in a sense it is a bit of a trap.  Anyway. she told me 'A really humble person who wanted to make right what they made wrong would find money to pay for the class to try to fix what they did.  But no, you are unwilling to face your wrongdoing because clearly it has already been addressed and it should be in the past without doing the WORK to put it there.  A really sorry person goes out of their way to make right what they did wrong.  They don't just claim the grace of God and demand forgiveness.' 
It seems that pretty much everything tends to be a trigger for her, meaning that if I voice a problem with anything, completely unrelated to the affair or anything else in the past, the past gets drug back up.  It is very tiring as I am sure you know.
The other aspect that makes this very difficult is according to her, the rest of her life has been perfect.  I am THE problem in her life.  She had a perfect life before she met me and she has a perfect life when I am not around.  She had a very good childhood etc.  It really sucks to be identified as THE one and only problem in someone's life.  Even when I look at it and can identify it as a pink elephant, it is still tough.  I believe there is some kind of trauma in her childhood that she has never addressed and is terrified to process.  I wish that she could do that, mostly for her sake so she could let it go.  As I mentioned before, when I processed my childhood issues and let them go, I felt so much better!  It was like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders.  I hope that some day she can experience the same thing.  I will continue to work on me and how I react to her and hopefully it will have a good impact and make things better in the future.

WC

[Skip]

This is what you are hearing... .

I am THE problem in her life.  I am THE problem in her life.  She had a perfect life before she met me and she has a perfect life when I am not around.  She had a very good childhood etc.  It really sucks to be identified as THE one and only problem in someone's life.

It makes you defensive.

This is what she is communicating... ."I am hurting."

And you being defensive makes it worse because she thinks you are not listening.

This is the cycle.

Disengage the old style and re-engaging a new, more feeling, style.

My "neurotypical" partner (I heard someone use that recently - not sure its a word)... .does this, too. She has a problem recently and unrelated to me, but it is coming at me. This is human nature. My reaction is to share her pain, support her, and give her the space she needs to solve it (rather than rescue). When she asks (and she will), I will help.

And if you read, the number 1 complaint from men after an affair is that the wife won't "get over it". The mindset of the wife is "this will be with me forever". This is also human nature. I've counseled a few people through infidelity recovery. I have one women who calls me a couple times a year to talk her out of a tree over an affair that was over years ago. When that affair trauma gets triggered, she re-lives the injury. PTSD, right?

You got advice to alter you communication style, which is helpful, but only if you alter your heart.

Put this model in your minds-eye. If every time she got triggered by the affair, you sat and cried with her, she would feel some relief and get up the next day and go on.

I'm not suggesting this as a tactic, but this is the type of empathy she is looking for.  What she is getting is facial expression, posture, and words that say "really, again, you want to talk about this, ugh".  So it builds and builds and now everything that troubles her tracks back to this. You mentioned EMDR earlier - I think you already sense this is what is happening.

I don't have a clever answer for how to peal back the onion and get the the trauma and engage empathically, but that is the grand theme here. Empathy, compassion, knowing when to aid and when to set back so she can self sooth, ending the invalidation, provide structure, and strength. The answer is in this stew pot. .

Defensive, unconnected/clueless, self-evisceration, frustration, condescension, word tag - these things are all bad for you and for her. Weakness is no good.

Make sense?

[Enabler]

I don't have a clever answer for how to peal back the onion and get the the trauma and engage empathically, but that is the grand theme here. Empathy, compassion, knowing when to aid and when to set back so she can self sooth, ending the invalidation, provide structure, and strength. The answer is in this stew pot. .

One thing I believe for sure is that all the time you react defensively to her being triggered (I too am the JADE master and loved a scrap) and JADE... .there is little or no reason she will feel compelled to look internally for another reason 'this' won't go away and she 'doesn't get over it'. The arguments provide a perfect detraction/validation for why she is right in thinking you are the problem and ALWAYS have been. This maybe one of many onion layers she has to work through to get to the core wound.

Incidentally I have a village friend who is in therapy for 'depression & anxiety' issues. Each time I see her she refers to a different historical reason why she's been suffering for so long... .each time "this is the one", each time I know it's not the one.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Woodchuck... glad I made you laugh a bit.  

Rule 1: "All time is in the present. If something makes me feel bad now, it is linked directly to the greatest pain I ever experienced — and that pain is happening now, too. Time can’t heal any wounds because time never really passes. Everything – past, present, and future — is NOW."

That makes a lot of sense and I agree that it must be horrible to live like that. It's hard for me to imagine.

What Skip and Enabler wrote makes a lot of sense to me and I agree.

As a note, JADE really doesn't help and it is hard to avoid. With my ex, there were a few times when I did JADE (not knowing I was JADE'ing) to the point he had no other reasons for "x" and he completely lost his side of the discussion/argument. What happened? He totally shut down. He looked completely defeated and told me I was "destroying his life" even though the discussion was about how much daycare cost per month. At the time, it was very odd and disturbing to me. I felt very confused. Now I realize he probably FELT as if I were destroying his life. I believe in his mind, for him to be wrong brings up huge feelings of inner toxic shame which he will do ANYTHING to avoid. When he isn't able to avoid it, I think he either explodes at me or self implodes. I wonder if this is what your wife is going through. Knowing this has helped me actively work to avoid JADE. It doesn't do any good especially when the issue is really about the pain they are feeling and not necessarily the topic being discussed. It took me awhile to wrap my head around this.

I don't know if she had a good childhood or not. Is it possible she may be "rewriting" her past to possibly convince herself that it was perfect to give her more ammunition against you? I could be way off my rocker here. It feels familiar to me with what my ex does. He's completely convinced himself that certain events never happened even when I have physical proof they did. I think in his case the pain of the past is too great for him to deal with so he "rewrites" his past (mine too) to make himself feel better. It's like he "needs" to be the victim. It feels to me that she wants you to suffer as much as she is suffering or more. When she doesn't get the reaction she's expecting, she escalates and so on. For me, once I wrapped my head around the amount of pain he's probably experiencing, that helped me to feel less hateful and resentful and at times I was able to empathize with him at least somewhat. It also seemed to de-escalate the situation. It was extremely difficult for me to do this during the divorce for various reasons. Post divorce, knowing what I know now seems to help a lot, though.

I think you have a lot of good advice here and I really do hope it helps you and your wife.

[SamwizeGamgee]

As I follow along here, I have remembered that to a BPD person, the feelings are facts - so no matter how long ago the hurt, and how many times they "forgave" (and even forgot for the time being) once the feelings of hurt and betrayal (such as finding out about an affair) come back - it's as jagged and fresh as ever.  There's no reasoning with that force. So not only does time passing not matter, the reality of paying a debt, repenting, or amends, don't matter either. It's the feelings being her facts that matter.

[Skip]

Infidelity. Suicide.

These are two things that scar our soul.

I don't think we can advance far if we don't grasp the depth of expanse of the wounds associated with infidelity.

For one partner, the trust is broken. It can be repaired, but it is like a broken mirror, the crack is always present.

For the other partner there is a deep shame. It can be managed, but at the end of the day, sitting in a field alone with the stars, one knows things are not right in their universe.

Is this amplified if one partner has inherent trust issues (BPD trait) and one partner has some self worth issues (typical BPD partner)... .

... .yes.

This is far more complicated than "there is no reasoning with BPD". Talk to anyone in a relationship who have continued after infidelity.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Skip, I'm going to go off track here for a moment (apologies OP).  I have been stuck wondering if I can't recover from 20 years of mostly covert BPD behavior from my wife, with some monumental rages thrown in (and blame, projection, and a bitter story now of parental alienation). 
In short, after this long term low-grade abuse, I wonder if I can ever re-establish trust, or intimacy, or love.  At my point now, I don't think I can, and was wondering if I'm wrong, or broken. 
I don't have to forgive another's adultery, but, I still want to forgive my wife, if that's needed.  In spite of focusing on letting go, and wanting to forgive, I feel like I just can't re-establish anything good or hopeful.  There's that ever present crack.

[Skip]

Skip, I'm going to go off track here for a moment (apologies OP).  

You point deserves it own thread - it's a good topic.

Both things can be true. My point that suicide and infidelity create lifelong scars in all families where they occur. What you say is also true as a general point about BPD. If you look on Detaching, the #1 reason given  by a pwBPD for walking from a relationship is broken trust. In either case (or overlapping cases) there is a point of non-recovery.

[Woodchuck]

Infidelity. Suicide.

These are two things that scar our soul.

I think I have a good grasp on that.  I was cheated on twice in two previous relationships before getting married.  I was not married to the women, so it was a little different but I still no to a great extent what it feels like and what you have to deal with.  The last time it happened, I was in a LDR and my girlfriend called me while she was with another guy... .It crushed me to the point where I wanted to commit suicide but I sought help from a buddy.  He took care of me and helped me get the assistance I needed.  I guess my point is I know how devastating it is.  With that being said, there has to be some forward progress at some point and if not then the 'game' needs to be called.  It has been 12 years.  12 years of me saying I am sorry.  12 years of me doing everything I can to take responsibility and seeking help, reading books etc and not one inch of forward progress.  Now she is telling me the only thing that will help is going to a $4k affair recovery seminar and that if I really cared about her and making things right and paying for what I have done, I would find a way to get the money to pay for that.  The response that I have in my head to this is probably not appropriate to post here.  Was/is the affair a big deal?  Yes, of course it was and I will not minimize it but at the same time, I feel that it is being used as a scapegoat for other things and that is not right or fair.

Here are just a few of her most recent quotes:

"You are at fault for being a terrible spouse that created marriage problems.  Your unrepentant prideful and self righteousness which perpetuate the problem are your responsibility along with your  being unwilling to accept responsibility for the mess you created."

"I believe that you think all you have yo do is say you are sorry and that is not true.  I am
Sorry fixes little to nothing!  You are responsible for much of the devistation and damage our relationship has sustained.  Im sorry with the attitude of demanded forgivness is sickening!"

"Your idea of fixing things was an apology and making steps to not repeat an affair or emotional affair of which there is no way for you to prove you have not done again."

"God does not forget anything... .he chooses to put it in the past.  We are human and it is not something we can do when we do not take the proper steps to be able to put it in the past!"

Me:
We have spent nearly 12 years talking about it between the two of us and I have no idea how many counselors and pastors.  I am sorry you feel like I have ever demanded forgiveness.  I have never felt like I even deserve forgiveness so I don’t know where you get that from.  I also did that for years with absolutely no positive effects at all.

Wife:
Yup and every God damn one of them thinks forgiveness will fix everything.  Guess what I know it fixes little to nothing!  I clearly need to repent for what you did or for not being able to forget.  Because to forgive you surely must be like God and “forget”


WC

[SamwizeGamgee]

Yeah. She’s not letting this go.  Nothing you can do will matter. After the $4k weekend, it will some other moving target.
What are going to do for you?
That’s all you can choose.

[livednlearned]

It has been 12 years.  12 years of me saying I am sorry.  12 years of me doing everything I can to take responsibility and seeking help, reading books etc and not one inch of forward progress.

 
What happens in your body, the physical sensations, when you discuss the affair with her?

Emotions are physical sensations. A lot of us forget that and stop noticing. You can drop back into your body and discover a lot of information there that can tell you what's really happening.

Tight chest, shallow breathing, clenched jaw, sweaty palms, furrowed brow, lump in your throat. Anything like that happening when you talk to her?  

People tend to regulate their emotions based on what's happening around them. People with BPD do this even more, to the point they may regulate their emotions externally through loved ones because they haven't learned how to do this internally.

If you are not feeling anything, or are feeling shut off and guarded, or are not processing guilt (whether justified or not) she will likely mirror that back to you unconsciously.

Also, it's curious that she expresses perpetual angst over this, and yet repeatedly and voluntarily exposes herself to situations that would re-trigger intense emotion. That suggests she is not feeling more vulnerable feelings like sadness, only the shifted ones like anger and contempt, which can be stabilizing for someone susceptible to drowning in emotion, especially grief, a much more devastating feeling to experience.

Which makes sense in a way. She came into the relationship with a broken leg, then you crashed the car into a pole. 12 years later, it's your fault she needs crutches. She may have no way to explain how she feels, how she got the broken leg, who broke it, and who is responsible for fixing it. The affair probably scarred her soul, and gave her a clear (though flawed) explanation for how she became hobbled. The affair then provides a strange kind of stability when you think about the alternatives for someone who struggles to regulate emotion and take responsibility for those feelings.  

What do you think might happen if you started to express your emotions in a more basic way?

Her: "You need to stop having that affair 12 years ago and change history so I can get off these crutches."

You: "I'm having a hard time breathing deeply right now. My palms are sweaty and I feel this sense of dread in my stomach. My throat is constricted and I have a ringing in my ears. I need to go walk for 20 minutes and see if this clears up. I'll come back and we can talk about this when I'm feeling better."

Then go walk. And come back.

Try again.

Reveal how you feel physically because that's a legitimate problem she can help fix. She can either stop talking about it, or she can find another way to discuss it. If she can't do either of those things, you still have a plan to take care of yourself that doesn't rely on what she does.

It will not go that smoothly in real life, of course.  

It's best if you start focusing on how you feel and get better at it, then build up to sharing it so you have some emotional confidence in your back pocket first.

She may be startled the first time you do it. Over time, she may bait you or taunt you because the change will be unsettling and she'll want things to back to how it used to be.

It works best when you feel the ground under your feet first as you start to make small changes in a relationship that has some pretty rigid rules and roles in place. You taking care of yourself in a loving way, especially while being kind toward her, is change that may feel scary to her.

[Woodchuck]

SamwizeGamgee
I am just focusing on what I can do to better myself and be a good example to my kids. 

livednlearned
I don't think that at this point anything 'abnormal' happens to me physically when I am discussing the affair.  It has been beaten to death so much, there is no sting left to it.  I don't have much of a problem discussing it with anyone, not because I don't think that it is a big deal but just because I have come to terms with it and have discussed it so many times with my W as well as countless others (counselors, pastors etc).  In the past, I have been very emotional about it but at this point, I believe that I have processed the guilt and have come to terms that I cannot go back and undo it.  I guess that is where I will start to have physical symptoms.  I was telling her a few days ago during a discussion that I believe that I can do anything I put my mind to.  That was in response to where I put my focus.  She replied that if I can do anything I put my mind to then I need to go back and undo the past. 
I appreciate the scenario that you outlined, however, the way that would play out is I would be attacked for only caring about me and how I feel.

"You: "I'm having a hard time breathing deeply right now. My palms are sweaty and I feel this sense of dread in my stomach. My throat is constricted and I have a ringing in my ears. I need to go walk for 20 minutes and see if this clears up. I'll come back and we can talk about this when I'm feeling better."

Something like that would just bring more intensified anger from her because I was focusing me and being 'selfish'.  She has stated countless times that she doesn't care about how I feel etc and any pain that I experience is just a fraction of what I deserve.

WC

[livednlearned]

All emotions have physical sensations.

Sensations, not symptoms.

The absence of feeling is meaningful, too.

And any sensations you have when talk with her don't have to be about the affair itself -- they can be anger, frustration, despair that you are stuck, that she is insulting you, that you feel nothing. She is saying mean things to you and you are sticking around to hear more.

If you decide hey, I think I've heard this before. It hurts. Then you have some choices.

Say you decide to take a time out. Her intensifying anger when you take care of yourself is expected. Psychologists who help people in BPD relationships consider intensified BPD anger a necessary part of change, and to prepare for it as you start to use new skills. Some call BPD anger in response to this kind of change an extinction burst.

You are in a role and she isn't going to like you changing it.

Asking for a time out is to give you a time out. It isn't designed to change her, although often your change will lead to her better behavior over time, especially if you are consistent.

You are not asking her to care about how you feel.

You are showing yourself that you care how you feel, in that moment.

You are letting her know, without disdain for her, without stating it explicitly, that you will not discuss xyz if you do not feel emotionally safe. You don't have to say anything, either.

There is a section on justified guilt in Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning that might be helpful for you.

Guilt cannot be the final word in a relationship. Your wife isn't going to relinquish something that is working well for her. You have to be the emotional leader on this one.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Woodchuck - I hear you.  I am contemplating some of the same ideas.  How to be healthy, save myself, and also be a good example to my kids.  I'm trying to be a great dad.  For me, especially after how my D17 is treating me, it makes me think that I can be a better divorced dad than a married dad.  But, that is not _at all_ what I'm advising you.  I just am sympathizing with you that it's tough from several angles.
Skip, thanks, as always.   I did start a thread on it's own about forgiveness. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328653.0
LnL - a great perspective.  I have to re-learn self-care, all the time.  I default to treating myself badly.