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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Dating while detaching. I don't know what the hell I'm doing.  (Read 2496 times)
BasementDweller
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« on: August 20, 2018, 04:26:25 AM »

Hi all. Recently, I posted about meeting a man, quite unexpectedly who seemed interested in me. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328144.0

It was all very unexpected, and therefore, I haven't really been clear on what to do. So I have laid low, and not encouraged him too much, though we have had some pleasant text exchanges. I figured it was just a tipsy impulse of his to talk to me, and that would be the end of it.

Last night as I was winding down to to bed, I got a message from him. "Bonjour, Madame. (He speaks French, so this is a bit cute.) How was your week? I was busy at work, and spent the weekend recharging and taking time for myself. I thought about you, however. I really enjoyed being around you, and I'd very much like to see you again. Are you free for dinner any time soon?"

I felt a lot of mixed emotions. I wasn't sure how to respond. Part of me wanted to ignore it. I actually had a "flee!" response for a few seconds. Not because I don't like him... .but because I am so shell-shocked by my break-up and relationship with my BPD ex, and it's all too soon. Part of me was intrigued, because I too spent the weekend alone and doing the "Introvert Recharge." I need that. Often.

What I do not need is to get involved with anyone right now, but random timing does not respect boundaries like that, and this guy just sort of showed up on the day that he did. It is what it is. Not his fault at all... .but I still have to consider that I'm not recovered from it all. I'm not really ready for anything.

After staring at the message for a bit, I had a very strange experience of feeling afraid, and wanting to ignore him, but also... .a weird leap in my heart, and a warm glow... .eh... .in other areas I forgot that I had. I have gotten so used to pain and sorrow associated with matters of the heart that I have apparently forgotten what real attraction minus the misery feels like.

I think it's this, though. I think I am genuinely attracted to this guy. I just don't know what to do with that. Just a few months ago, I was living with the man that I thought I would spend the rest of my life with, and his children. They were my family, and I loved them. I still do, but they are gone, and I am not sure where I'm at right now. My BPDex snapped, had a full blown psychotic break, and the relationship ended traumatically. I am not even done processing it, but I still feel loyalty to him in my heart. Because I love normally, and I do not discard people. In the end, I guess you could say he discarded me. I moved out, but only because he became hostile toward me, and unrecognizable. This has really messed with my self-worth and made me question what anyone would see in me.

So this strange, brilliant, measured, rational man appearing out of nowhere is a bit of a monkey wrench. I don't know WHAT to do. I am so attracted to his... .normality. I want to be able to spend time with a person like this, but I am traumatized, and that has to show on my face. I must appear damaged on the surface. I can't imagine that I am hiding this well. I never know when I will start to cry. My ex is on my mind all the time, and sometimes, I just lose my sh!t on a public bus or something. I start crying and have to reel it in and get myself collected. How the hell do I manage to hang out with this new guy? He would never understand the lunacy that I so recently endured. I'm so fragile right now, and I just feel like nobody should be around me. But he wants to be, and I like him. So I am having dinner with him on Friday, and I am terrified. Excited, but terrified. I don't even know if I know how to act anymore. Like... .on a date. My BPDex changed my perspective on love and attraction and made me associate it with something scary, dangerous, and negative. I really don't want this poor guy to be tainted by that. I feel like a damaged person that couldn't possibly be good company for anyone.

Has anyone else experienced this? Trying to get "back out there" and feeling like a total, absolute mess?

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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 05:04:29 AM »

Hey BasementDweller,

Tough spot and I can sense there is some push pull in your emotions about moving on... .however, what if you viewed this 'move' as not moving on... .yet... .It's a step in that direction yes but nothing is committing you to this new guy in the same way that going for dinner with this chap doesn't mean you have to be a fully signed up member of Tinder to play the field. This guy has taken a genuine interest in you... .well... .for you being you... .which is pretty awesome right?

I'm not versed on what the right thing to do here is, and I've made errors in the past with being too open... .but that's the kinda guy I am... .add to which I haven't dated anyone since '97 when I met my wife, and even that was a little dramatic rather than the usual get to know each other... .so you might want to disregard anything I say... .BUT. What would happen if you talked to the guy about your recent relationship experience? What would happen if you opened up a little bit about where you're at, your fears and what you want from him right here right now? If the guy hangs around to give you a dose of normality, respects you for your current predicament and continues the 'thing', you learn a lot about him. How this discussion goes might need some thought as you'd ideally like to avoid him "rescuing" you. You want him to stay normal and stay out of your chaos to preserve his normality specialness. I guess ideally this chap will listen, his jaw drop, say "that sucks" followed by "lets get shots" and then "lets just enjoy the evening, if you want to talk more, that's cool, if you don't, that's cool."

Allow yourself the space to make good decisions and work through your thoughts. You are vulnerable due to timing... .but that doesn't mean you have to treat this guy with suspicion since not all men are out to get you. But, you are entitled to happiness.
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JNChell
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 06:17:32 AM »

Hi, BasementDweller. I really like what Enabler told you, and I also empathize with your position on the matter. Mostly the not feeling ready for anything, but really desiring it. I desire intimacy intensely. I’m a relationship person. I’m not real good at the alone thing. What I’m finally coming to accept, at 41, is that I need to be ok with myself in being alone. I have gotten myself into several bad situations because I’ve not been ok with being alone up to this point. I nearly allowed my last relationship to completely destroy me. As it is, we have a child together, so I’m tied to a person that I would like to totally leave behind me. I went all in for her. Emotionally, financially, etc. I made the biggest mistake of my life in doing so. I hope that that doesn’t sound too harsh. I do have a beautiful Son that I adore and that has allowed me to understand what true love is. I’m grateful for him everyday.

I’d like to echo the advice that you’ve gotten here that it might be ok to offer a little honesty to this person of interest. He already knows that you’re struggling with your ex. I imagine that he is curious about it seeing as he is showing interest in you. I don’t recommend opening up the flood gates of information on him, but maybe a brief overview of what you’ve been through. You’re not committed to him, but you do have a sense about him that feels good to you up to this point. Always trust your instincts. This is a new tool that my psychologist has been helping me to grasp. Many of us on these boards were raised to not trust our instincts. There were bad consequences for doing so. I didn’t even think that instincts were something to be considered. Now they are.

I’ve followed your story here, and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through and what you’re having to leave behind. I know how much it hurts to be a part of family that has fallen apart when we tried so hard to keep it together. We lost ourselves amongst trying to do so. Trust your gut.
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 09:52:01 AM »

Ohhhh, he speaks French! That makes me swoon!

I like the idea of just telling him, without lots of gory detail, that you're just getting out of a bad break up and need to go slow. You don't have to get into a relationship with this guy, it's just dating, it's ok to relax, have fun, experience a bit of attraction and attention. Just breathe, go slow, and check in with yourself a lot.

Just remember YOU need to be your top priority right now.

Doesn't mean you can't go to dinner  

I'm glad you're having some fun, getting a taste of what else might be available to you in the universe.
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BasementDweller
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 03:42:10 PM »

Thank you for your replies, everyone. Solid advice and I appreciate it. It can be difficult to think outside the bubble of BPD... .it's weird. Before my relationship with my ex, I knew about BPD from a clinical perspective, and also, my sister has been diagnosed with it as well. She is much lower functioning than my ex, but not once has she ever lashed out at me. She is older than me and has always been intensely loving and protective of me. She and my mother get in some nasty arguments, but she has never said a cross word to me in her life. I really had no idea what it feels like to be the target of BPD rage, and I thought, somewhat naively, that it would be ok. That if my partner and I loved each other, everything would be fine.

Now I'm both shell-shocked but also feel defective. Like... .it's contagious, and now any "non" I meet will pick up on my anxiety and see me as crazy or unhinged too. I never would have imagined how the partners and ex partners are affected by these relationships. And I do believe that without having survived it, anyone else would not understand. I wonder if it would be easier, when the time comes, to say that my ex had a drinking problem and some emotional issues and leave it at that. It's not a lie... .at all. But explaining BPD - I'm wondering if that would be TMI?

I want to respond more to what you all wrote, but right now I'm kind of feeling physically and emotionally exhausted. I get overwhelmed at times, like BPD is a black cloud that's always hanging over me. I'm split from my partner, but it still haunts me constantly. Mainly the fact that he just... .disappeared in the end. He wasn't the man I thought I knew anymore. He hated me. He spewed such rage and vitriol at me, that it was so hard to believe he once loved me. He had no recollection of any of the kindness and love that I showed him and his sons. What a horrible, evil disorder. It robs these people of the beautiful memories they had with loved ones, and fills their heads with anger and mistrust. He legitimately seems to not even remember who I am. I used to trust in love and now I am terrified of it. I'm so afraid to open up to anyone ever again.
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 04:12:12 PM »

I wonder if it would be easier, when the time comes, to say that my ex had a drinking problem and some emotional issues and leave it at that. It's not a lie... .at all. But explaining BPD - I'm wondering if that would be TMI?
I'd have to ask, are you ready to get out there in the dating world? Emotionally and mentally? If you are testing the waters I suggest stop worrying about what you should tell your date and just enjoy the dinner and the company. He might find it a little off putting if you talk about your ex right off the bat. And might be too much for him to digest. Give him a chance to get to know you first. Then talk about your ex later. 
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 04:28:46 PM »

Hi, SC! No, I'm definitely NOT ready, haha. But I am going to try anyway. He does know a little about my ex, as we talked extensively the night we met. I did tell him that he had some difficulties he was struggling with that ultimately led to the downfall of the relationship. So he at least knows that, and yes, I guess for now that is enough. If we were to continue to date regularly, I may then tell him a bit more, but if he's not really familiar with BPD (for his sake, I hope he isn't!) then I'll likely not try to explain the disorder in detail.

I have a close male friend that I sometimes have dinner or coffee with and really enjoy talking to. He has an uncle with BPD, and recalls when he was a kid, riding in the car with him and he'd have meltdowns of violent road rage and drive like a maniac. He also got kicked out of a sporting event for punching someone. When I told him my ex has BPD, the recognition on his face was immediate. He said "Oh. OUCH. I'm sorry. My aunt suffers terribly because of her husband's disorder, and he scares the whole family." It was such a relief to talk to someone who knew firsthand what it was like. He totally understood.
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 04:32:26 PM »

.it's weird. Before my relationship with my ex, I knew about BPD from a clinical perspective, and also, my sister has been diagnosed with it as well. She is much lower functioning than my ex

This makes sense. We are attracted to what is subconsciously familiar to us. We don’t have control over the things we don’t know about yet. Our childhood directs us. I’m glad that you’ve realized this. It’s one hell of a conclusion to make, but an important one.
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 05:01:10 PM »

Hey BD,

As I was reading this I couldn't help but think that some meditation might help. Don't know if that is something you do or not, but it might help with letting go of expectations and being in the present moment.

That said, I like Mr. Not Quite at the Right Time.  He likes your brains and your beauty. And I bet he has his own stories... .you just haven't heard 'em yet.

Try not to focus on all the reasons not to and just let it be. And also keep grieving your losses... .that can't be rushed... .just let it happen as it does.

I know how it feels - awkward - when you start up quickly with a new person, the lingering guilt, those feelings of attachment to the past. It will fade.

I hope this goes well! I can't wait for Friday - now I have something to look forward to this week! hahahaahaha.

hugs, pearl.   
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 05:07:44 PM »

Hi, pearl!

Yeah, I guess I am a bit excited about Friday, which means that the week is gonna drag by slowly, I'm afraid... .

BTW, would this be considered Act II? Just asking... . 
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 05:14:08 PM »

Hi, SC! No, I'm definitely NOT ready, haha. But I am going to try anyway. He does know a little about my ex, as we talked extensively the night we met. I did tell him that he had some difficulties he was struggling with that ultimately led to the downfall of the relationship. So he at least knows that, and yes, I guess for now that is enough. If we were to continue to date regularly, I may then tell him a bit more, but if he's not really familiar with BPD (for his sake, I hope he isn't!) then I'll likely not try to explain the disorder in detail.

I have a close male friend that I sometimes have dinner or coffee with and really enjoy talking to. He has an uncle with BPD, and recalls when he was a kid, riding in the car with him and he'd have meltdowns of violent road rage and drive like a maniac. He also got kicked out of a sporting event for punching someone. When I told him my ex has BPD, the recognition on his face was immediate. He said "Oh. OUCH. I'm sorry. My aunt suffers terribly because of her husband's disorder, and he scares the whole family." It was such a relief to talk to someone who knew firsthand what it was like. He totally understood.
You sound excited and I am glad for you=) It's a good indication that you are slowly moving forward. Think of it as a good distraction.
BPD is a horrible disorder. I feel bad for us the "discarded" ones, but worse for the ones who are suffering from it.
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 05:15:20 PM »

Hi BasementDweller

Above all, set the pace for yourself - youve been through a lot, there really is no rush to anything, it sounds like a great source of company and support - beyond that is the pace you want it to move at.

Meeting new people, friends, dating - it was invaluable - but I had many days as well where phone calls I ignored, they were those times I was ruminating, anxious, depressed and just didnt feel like i had any energy. Then having to make excuses why people couldnt reach me, when i reconnected and enjoyed good times, went out, was distracted, it helped me to see the difference of how a day can turn so unexpectedly along with the mood - as you noticed yourself, I think its a lot of courage to do so when your stuck in that sort of rut state of mind to just abandon it for awhile and be open to opportunities.
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 05:18:18 PM »

Crikey... .

I feel like im the unhealthy version of you! Im totally devastated about my ex and im going through woman like they are about to go extinct, and each time I feel worse and worse about myself, comparing each to my former lover against whom they cant hope to compare... .

Every time I get a text from any of them I sit there starring at it for a bit, they swipe it away because I cant face it, but the more I ignore them the keener they are... .

Today I started to extract from them all, which felt like a huge relief making the decision to stop doing that, and the first I did that with actually went really well! To the point I actually feel like I did a good thing... .Ill type our messages below.

But if you ask me yours doesn't feel like mine, yours feels more healthy, I don't think timing knows about your ex, maybe yours Is worth chasing, mine aren't... .


Verbatum texts after we spelt together last friday... .

Her: Hiya, i know you are busy at work but i just wanted to ask if i overstepped the mark by coming onto you on friday? I never normally second guess myself so please don't think im like that its just youre the only one i like and would love to see you again so would hate if friday affected any chance of that.

5 hour delay... .

Me: No not at all, i guess i take things slower, attraction is more than just looks, you seem quite intense about things, i see dating as a period of discovery about another person, you seem to want to hook me... .

Her: Oh gosh thats not me at all, i dont want to hook you i want to get to know you and take my time about it. Im a firm believer in if things are meant to be they will.

Her: I had a feeling id given off the wrong perception of me the second i text you on saturday morning. Could we go back to the end of friday and start again? No rushing just going with the flow and getting to know each other?

24 hr gap gap... .( i was camping with no signal, id told her that was happening... .)

Her: Sorry, me again, final message i promise. Just wanted to say thank you for being honest with me, its good to know where im going wrong so i can learn from my mistakes

Me: Oh <<her name>>, whats going on here? It shoudnt be like this! We met once and your freaking out, and the camping thins (**she accused me of ignoring her despite knowing i was going camping and no singla*... .youre a lovely girl but i dont think youre ready to be dating, you get very serious and worried very fast and thats not a goo thing. Maybe you need to think about why that is?


Her: I really do owe you a huge thank you, thanks to you ive seen that im not over what happened to me last year and that i cling onto men to try and fill the void i have due to that. What youve taught me tonight is that i need to work on myself and be happy with who i am before i can move on and thats what im going to do. I used to be a great woman now im just a shadow of my former self but ill be back better than befoe


So ignoring the total irony of me giving someone else relatonship advise... .i feel this is dysfuntion in its highest form, so if your mesages to your new friend arent like this then give it a pop! The worst that can happen is you get sex then get to enjoy the intense self hatred that brings combined with having to then try to dump them because really youre still absolutly in love with someone else and hey arent them then feeling like you have helped them because they are just as broken as you and everyone was lying to themselves. Hopefully you and your friend dont end up like this, he doesnt sound broken
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BasementDweller
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 05:27:55 PM »

You sound excited and I am glad for you=) It's a good indication that you are slowly moving forward. Think of it as a good distraction.
BPD is a horrible disorder. I feel bad for us the "discarded" ones, but worse for the ones who are suffering from it.


I couldn't agree more... .we can recover eventually and move on, but they have to live with themselves, in their own heads. I really do hope my ex gets some relief and improvement from therapy.
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 05:57:27 PM »

Hi, pearl!

Yeah, I guess I am a bit excited about Friday, which means that the week is gonna drag by slowly, I'm afraid... .

BTW, would this be considered Act II? Just asking... . 


hee hee.

I must say he sounds so interesting! I also have to say, I know we are a bit alike, dreaming of ourselves in monasteries from time to time, but then... .there you are all over again! On a date! And all those tingly feelings turn on again... .and... .who knows. So much potential.

I picture you two on a rooftop... .looking out over the city... .having deep intellectual discussions until that first kiss finally happens!  

Be in the moment. "Normal" is good. You are where you need to be now. Let it happen.

Act II, but a good Act II, not some twist that introduces trouble and keeps you apart! Just a lovely, mature, blossoming romance!

Two of the most wonderful guys I met were Mr. Not Great Timing guys. My advice: if he's great and you like him, it will be the right time in due time.  

excited for you, pearl.  
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 05:57:53 PM »



I couldn't agree more... .we can recover eventually and move on, but they have to live with themselves, in their own heads. I really do hope my ex gets some relief and improvement from therapy.

You know before I joined this site I was wishing that my ex is just, or if not, more miserable than I was. But then I realized that he is actually suffering every day for having BPD. Now I just feel sorry for him.
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2018, 05:53:27 AM »

Did my thread get moved from Detatching to Learning? Hmmm... .the mods have more faith in my sanity right now than I do.   I still feel decidedly not detatched. However... .Friday night fun with the brilliant architectural engineer is heating up.

We agreed to have dinner on Friday, but have decided together to shop for ingredients, and I will prepare one of my epic dishes (red thai curry coconut steamed mussels) and he'll be the sommalier and DJ, at his place. 

I am entering into this plan knowing that the likelyhood that the option to... .eh... ."make the beast with two backs" will present itself. I'm terrified and mildly excited at the same time. I mean, wine, mussels, and a Friday night? This is both a dangerous and thrilling moment in my sad little life! Since my one real secret weapon, (besides my caustic wit and "bull-in-a-china-shop" brand of femininity) is my cooking, I have to be honest and say I've gotten a marriage proposal or two out of it, or at least a few pairs of trousers falling off. Just saying. I didn't ASK for that in return. They just fell off. So I kinda know what I'm doing in extending this invitiation.

The exchange went like this:

ME:
Monsieur, I have two possible ideas swirling around in my head. Ok, more like millions... .but these two are relevant to Friday:

1.) [RESTAURANT NAME] at [LOCATION] is absolutely fantastic. Not sure if you have ever been there. Quite cozy! [LINK]

2.) We go to the supermarket and I cook! I have complete confidence you will be highly impressed. However, if this sounds too terrifyingly domestic for you (like... .something akin to going to IKEA together) then option 1 still exists.

If you have other suggestions, I’m all ears. I hope your week is off to a good start.


HIM:
Madame,
Since I, over the recent past years, have transformed from a wild "jet setter" to calm, domestic old man I would prefer option 2. If you are in charge of the cooking I'll take care of the beverages. Deal?

ME:
Deal! I’m slowly becoming domesticated, but still have a very tiny wild streak - usually limited to absurd acts of rebellion like inappropriate food and wine pairings, or minor fashion felonies like wearing motorcycle boots with a dress. You can be the sommelier, bartender, and DJ. I’ll be the chef and stand up comedienne.

HIM: Sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to seeing you... .in motocycle boots and a dress! :-)

So, I think that's flirting. Between nerds. Or something. I seriously thought he'd pick option #1. I'll have to psych myself up for this now.

hee hee.

I must say he sounds so interesting! I also have to say, I know we are a bit alike, dreaming of ourselves in monasteries from time to time, but then... .there you are all over again! On a date! And all those tingly feelings turn on again... .and... .who knows. So much potential.

I picture you two on a rooftop... .looking out over the city... .having deep intellectual discussions until that first kiss finally happens! 

Be in the moment. "Normal" is good. You are where you need to be now. Let it happen.

Act II, but a good Act II, not some twist that introduces trouble and keeps you apart! Just a lovely, mature, blossoming romance!

Two of the most wonderful guys I met were Mr. Not Great Timing guys. My advice: if he's great and you like him, it will be the right time in due time.  

excited for you, pearl. 

Hahaha... .I hope I don't have a very boring report for you after... .but who knows? "Yeah, he ate one of the mussels that didn't open, and ended up in the Emergency Room with violent, bleeding gastroenteritis." <-- (Total BasementDweller luck.)

Crikey... .

I feel like im the unhealthy version of you! Im totally devastated about my ex and im going through woman like they are about to go extinct, and each time I feel worse and worse about myself, comparing each to my former lover against whom they cant hope to compare... .

So ignoring the total irony of me giving someone else relatonship advise... .i feel this is dysfuntion in its highest form, so if your mesages to your new friend arent like this then give it a pop! The worst that can happen is you get sex then get to enjoy the intense self hatred that brings combined with having to then try to dump them because really youre still absolutly in love with someone else and hey arent them then feeling like you have helped them because they are just as broken as you and everyone was lying to themselves. Hopefully you and your friend dont end up like this, he doesnt sound broken


Thank you, Samson - for saying that. I am sorry that you've had to go through all this post BPD break-up confusion. I'm there as well, and not feeling at all "healthy" but I'm trying to motor through it and tell myself that a cute, funny, smart guy just sort of fell into my lap when I was at rock bottom, and no, he doesn't appear at all to be a head case. Very calm and responsible man so far as I can see now. I am just excited about being on a date with a man who doesn't belittle me or insult me. (Which is all my BPD ex did for the last couple of months I was with him.) So I'm going to whip up some mean mussels and hope for the best. ;-) Re: Sex. Can't say it hasn't crossed my mind, ... .BUT ... .I don't want to ruin it by having things happen too soon. This is a classy guy, and I actually like his personality. So I have to figure out how to pace myself here and not screw everything up. Jesus, why am I having teen dilemmas at my age? 

   
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 08:26:02 AM »

Motorcycle boots with dress=HOT!
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 08:30:17 AM »

Motorcycle boots with dress=HOT!

Haha! Thank you!   I'll have to see what I can throw together. ;-)
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2018, 08:38:35 AM »

I recently met a young man I was attracted to, 16 years younger than myself but mature, runs a business with his brothers, very soft spoken but seems strong and sure, and he's a vegetarian which I love (I eat a little seafood, he doesn't even.) We made the "beast with two backs" as you so delicately put it) after our 2nd great date, and he stayed the night. It was nice. I probably wasn't ready, I am still obsessed with exBPDgf, but I was lonely and horny and he was into it, so... .

I've never been the sort of woman to fret about having sex too early, or waiting for the 3rd date or whatever. I make love when and to whom I feel like. However, I admit feeling perturbed when he didn't text me the next day. The day after that I texted him to see if he wanted to hang, then again a few days later. He was nice enough about it, but says he's busy. Maybe so, but I'm wondering if it's a blow off. Oh well, I wasn't taking him as a candidate for a serious relationship, he's just 2 months out of a 4 year relationship, I'm 4 months out of a 2 year relationship, plus our age difference, plus I generally prefer women. Still, it always boggles my mind how men often pull away right after sex, like they're scared I'm going to ask 'em to put a ring on it, . Whatever.  

Luckily, I enjoy dating. I love having one on one time with another person, plus there's usually wine and food and sometimes sex. Yay!
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2018, 08:43:12 AM »

I definitely want to respond to your post, but I'm getting ready to leave work (Dammit!) But that's a really interesting topic... .that whole dynamic with the timing of sex and all the moral/social hang-ups people have about it. So I am going to get back to this thread a bit later!

I always enjoy the opportunity to use the phrase "beast with two backs" in any conversation.   
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 04:20:20 PM »

Basement Dweller,
I'm sure you've heard all the cautions and probably thought obsessively about them.    I will just restate the ones that the people who love me have been reminding me of: 
1.  There is value in knowing that you CAN be alone.  Entering a new relationship before you have experienced that can sometimes put you in a position of holding onto that relationship out of fear of being alone. 
2.  The right man will be willing to wait for the right time.  There are amazing, healthy men out there (or so I hear) that can handle relationship with someone who is healing, but generally healthy people seek out other healthy people for relationship, so there is a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) or at least a  Yellow flag/questionable (click to insert in post) if a man doesn't have at least some hesitation about getting involved with someone freshly out of a difficult relationship.

That said, I do wish you joy on Friday and clarity as you walk this new relationship road.  I don't think that there will ever come a time when you feel absolutely ready and spending time with someone who brings you joy and shows you what a good relationship can look and feel like can be a great part of healing.  I'm just passing on some of the loving advice I'm fielding right now. 

I have my own "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" situation going on.  Mine has headed down the road of platonic friendship.  Neighbor B wants to honor his decision to take a break from dating and use that time to explore friendship.  I think that there could be possibility for something more when he's worked through the hurts that led him to that decision and had some time to check out the  Yellow flag/questionable (click to insert in post) he's got about dating a neighbor who is so recently divorced.  I respect his decision and am trying to figure out how to make the mental shift that will allow me to explore friendship without the feeling that we're dating without really dating or just counting down the clock until he feels he's ready to date or feels I'm ready to date.  I value friendship and think he's the type where friendship wouldn't be a consolation prize for either of us. 

So I'll let you know how things go on the (overly?) cautious path and you can let me know how things go on the follow your heart and seize the day path.   

BG
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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2018, 04:01:43 AM »

Still, it always boggles my mind how men often pull away right after sex, like they're scared I'm going to ask 'em to put a ring on it, . Whatever. 

Luckily, I enjoy dating. I love having one on one time with another person, plus there's usually wine and food and sometimes sex. Yay!

LI - hello! I totally see your point here, and I always saw it as a little bit of game playing, or if the "thrill of the chase" is all they're after, then they get bored if it all happens too soon. If this guy is blowing you off in the end, his loss. You seem like a really cool lady, and I think it's odd when people act all weird around each other after sex... .like they have to "avoid" the person. Unless it was an awful, regrettable event, I highly doubt that's necessary.

In my experiences, always having been a bit timid in that area, I haven't had any real heavy encounters with anyone I didn't know really well first. Largely because attraction isn't instantaneous for me. Normally by the time something physical happened, we were pretty well established... .so every single one of those encounters has turned into a long term relationship. I have no moral hang-ups or opinions about how these things should happen, only my own experiences. I would guess about myself that the more I like a guy, the longer it would take me to want to have sex, because I'd not want him to disappear.

If I wasn't that into him, maybe it would happen sooner - or not at all... .if that makes sense? But this guy is really smart and interesting. So I am treading with caution. My plan is to be pretty straightforward and do what has always worked for me in the past. Stick to light beer, and don't get too tempted, haha. But for real... .I have said before to a guy "I'm attracted to you, and wouldn't mind something happening between us, but I still feel a bit awkward and want to get to know you better first." It has never had a bad outcome to do that. So I'll feel it out, and if that seems the right approach, so be it. Doesn't mean we can't kiss and fool around a little if that feels right. ;-) I just don't know. The social rituals of flirting and seduction are something I have never mastered or understood. I often liken myself to a bull in a china shop that way. I am literally the clumsiest woman ever when it comes to being charming or cute. I start giggling nervously and almost faint if a guy kisses me. I don't know what to do with my hands. Still. It's like I'm still 14. 

Basement Dweller,
I'm sure you've heard all the cautions and probably thought obsessively about them.    I will just restate the ones that the people who love me have been reminding me of: 
1.  There is value in knowing that you CAN be alone.  Entering a new relationship before you have experienced that can sometimes put you in a position of holding onto that relationship out of fear of being alone. 
2.  The right man will be willing to wait for the right time.  There are amazing, healthy men out there (or so I hear) that can handle relationship with someone who is healing, but generally healthy people seek out other healthy people for relationship, so there is a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) or at least a  Yellow flag/questionable (click to insert in post) if a man doesn't have at least some hesitation about getting involved with someone freshly out of a difficult relationship.

Thank you for these reminders - I definitely understand. Prior to meeting my BPD ex, I was single and living alone for a year and a half. I was happy and content and I loved it. I'm very introverted and actually really enjoy alone time. Since leaving my ex, I have lived alone for over two months now, but he and I were not really together romantically for the last two months when I was there. I am still grieving, but not suffering from the alone part. I can be ok with that. It's just ... .you know, all the hurt feelings in the end.

At this point I can't be sure how much this guy knows about my relationship, other than it ended some months ago, and I did tell him that first night it was still a bit hard. But that was really it. I don't know how many red or even yellow flags there could be, because this isn't so uncommon, and I didn't really dwell on it or go into detail. I am quite sure I came across as "mentally healthy" because I was very stoic and laid back. When he suggested going to his place I made it clear I was NOT just going to jump in bed with him. He was fine with that and totally respectful... .he seemed mentally healthy himself... .just very reserved.

What I did do was talk and laugh with him and have a nice time, and I think what it boiled down to in the end is we really were oddly compatible. If I went out and say... .met three or four different men, chatted them up a bit, and one was still reeling from a bad break-up, and the others were not - if "break-up guy" were the most appealing, intelligent, and compatible to me... .I'd choose the one I felt for - regardless... .just keeping in mind the situation was going to require some special attention. But I would take a chance if I really liked the person. We can't really always choose attraction to happen at the "right" time.

My solid impression of this man is that he is very rational and thinks things through. He doesn't appear to be a "rush headlong in" kind of guy. I remember the love-bombing from my BPD ex that was immediate in the beginning. This man is WAY more level-headed. I can feel the difference, in spades.

That said, I do wish you joy on Friday and clarity as you walk this new relationship road.  I don't think that there will ever come a time when you feel absolutely ready and spending time with someone who brings you joy and shows you what a good relationship can look and feel like can be a great part of healing.  I'm just passing on some of the loving advice I'm fielding right now. 

Absolutely. That's how I am going to choose to look at it for now. And take it one day at a time. Thank you! :-) Let's not say "relationship road" yet, haha. I'm just putting out a feeler. One tentacle. 

I have my own "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" situation going on.  Mine has headed down the road of platonic friendship.  Neighbor B wants to honor his decision to take a break from dating and use that time to explore friendship.  I think that there could be possibility for something more when he's worked through the hurts that led him to that decision and had some time to check out the  Yellow flag/questionable (click to insert in post) he's got about dating a neighbor who is so recently divorced.  I respect his decision and am trying to figure out how to make the mental shift that will allow me to explore friendship without the feeling that we're dating without really dating or just counting down the clock until he feels he's ready to date or feels I'm ready to date.  I value friendship and think he's the type where friendship wouldn't be a consolation prize for either of us. 
So I'll let you know how things go on the (overly?) cautious path and you can let me know how things go on the follow your heart and seize the day path.   

Yes! Sounds like a good plan, and I'm really happy to hear that you and Neighbor B have thought sensibly about this and decided you want to take your time. That sounds like a well-ordered approach that still leaves the door open if and when the time is right. It's also really a bit more complex with you two because you are neighbors, and both have children. Me and this guy live on opposite sides of the city, alone, and with no children... .so it's not so loaded a situation.

So funny you should say that... .I have never been a "seize the day and follow your heart" kind of person. Ever. I don't trust that damn fickle organ, haha. Normally, the "tread cautiously, and use your head" approach is what I do. EVEN in romance. Which... .well, with the exception of Mr. BPD has made life pretty easy for me. I am kind of doing that with this guy. What I like most about him is he isn't overwhelming me, and he doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. He seems to be assessing me for normality as well. (Poor guy, hahaha!)

I guess I can try to act like a lady for at least one evening. 
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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2018, 03:20:13 PM »

Hi BD,
Just wanted to wish you well on Friday - I will be sending out all kind of positive vibes your way.  I feel a bit of an online kinship with you because you may remember that my ex also experienced a very similar complete psychotic break prior to our divorce earlier this year. 

I've been sitting in the peanut gallery, munching popcorn, enjoying your thread immensely and avidly living vicariously through you!  If this guy has a single brother - send him my way - French speaking or not 

Joking aside - you have articulated all of my reasons for why I so don't feel ready for dating yet (i.e. healing, dealing with my issues,  figuring out who I am etc. with a healthy dollop of feeling like a middle schooler who hasn't the faintest clue HOW to date anymore).  I did however feel up to adopting a kitty this week so I guess that's a start 

This guy does sound mighty intriguing... .  Like Pearl, I sit with bated breath for the next installment of this particular telenovella

Warmly,
B
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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2018, 05:00:36 PM »


I have my own "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" situation going on.  Mine has headed down the road of platonic friendship.  Neighbor B wants to honor his decision to take a break from dating and use that time to explore friendship.  I think that there could be possibility for something more when he's worked through the hurts that led him to that decision and had some time to check out the  Yellow flag/questionable (click to insert in post) he's got about dating a neighbor who is so recently divorced.  I respect his decision and am trying to figure out how to make the mental shift that will allow me to explore friendship without the feeling that we're dating without really dating or just counting down the clock until he feels he's ready to date or feels I'm ready to date. 


Not to hijack Basement Dweller's dating thread, but Beaglegirl, I'm in a similar situation with a female friend. We've been friends since we were both married to men, and for the first time in the 10 years since we met, we're both looking for women, and both available. We've been spending more time together lately, and a bit more touchy-feely than we used to be. I find myself having thoughts about us being together, but I can't tell if she thinks of me that way. I can't decide if I should be hanging around her more, or if I'll just end up getting hurt when she hooks up with some other woman because, after all, we're just friends. I haven't been brave enough, like you were, to just ask. Too scared to ruin a long, supportive friendship.
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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2018, 05:48:27 PM »

Oh my gosh! I am so here for this thread!  

[breaks out popcorn and prosecco and cheers the other ladies on!]

I swear just when I think I could never, would never, possibly date ever again in life... .then I see this! I really am okay with the idea of being alone, but then I remember that rush of excitement, the first kiss, the clothes flying, finally seeing what was hiding under those clothes! hahahaaha. It's so fun!

Okay. I am up way too late and have a massive headache so this is all the cheer I can bring... .there is so much more to say though... .

Happy Friday!  
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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2018, 07:40:50 PM »

I just have to say that i've been enjoying this thread as well — especially as my separation seems to have been turning a corner after three months. This is a really awkward time. I moved out of a four-year marriage to a uBPD three months ago, and have felt like I've been stuck in purgatory.

Basementdweller, your story has been delightful to follow, especially knowing firsthand the pain and confusion that BPD partners can cause in our lives. I've struggled with wanting to allow myself time to heal, vs. the urge to get back out there and start making up for lost time, and the need for validation and touch. Since it's still so early in this new phase of life, I have no interest in getting enmeshed in a relationship. And until child custody is decided and our separation agreement signed, I can't risk my ex finding out about any dating on my part, even though it's not expressly forbidden.

Anyways, for what it's worth, I'll document where I am right now: if an opportunity presented itself to quietly and casually make the beast with someone, I'd consider it. I've gone out on a few "practice dates" — mainly to just have some connection and see if I still had some "mojo" after my uBPD's invalidation of me. My flirting has been kind of tepid and half-a**ed but I had a really nice smooch session after dancing with a very foxy lady of my own age.  I've gotten together a couple of times clandestinely with a single-mom friend and we've exchanged foot massage, caressing and what she calls platonic touch.

All of the above has been nice and validating. Well, it also seems a little more tepid and slow than what I was used to before I met my uBPD. But then again, my uBPD hit me with extreme love-bombing. I feel a bit of shame about wanting more validation and desire from these very casual encounters. So I'm letting that feeling sit there, and learning how to live with the discomfort.

Still, I'm feeling more cheerful that I have in ages. And very happy for you. Wishing you a great Friday!  CC
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2018, 07:17:26 AM »

Oh, my! Hahaha! Now after reading everyone else's responses, I am both nervous and giddy about tomorrow. I hope that the night isn't a total dud where I have to come back to the boards and explain what an embarrassing, horrible flop it all was! I'm also grappling with a somewhat cathartic, but still emotionally challenging encounter with my exBPD yesterday. But life goes on, and tomorrow is Fri-YAY. 

Hi BD,
Just wanted to wish you well on Friday - I will be sending out all kind of positive vibes your way.  I feel a bit of an online kinship with you because you may remember that my ex also experienced a very similar complete psychotic break prior to our divorce earlier this year. 

Hello, baglady! Yes, I recall we spoke about that - I'm really sorry your experience was as such. I was shocked to learn that these BPD psychotic episodes can be so similar in their presentation. I'm not sure why I was shocked... .but I was. And if how I felt "post psychotic break" is anything like what you felt, then I truly empathize with you.


I've been sitting in the peanut gallery, munching popcorn, enjoying your thread immensely and avidly living vicariously through you!  If this guy has a single brother - send him my way - French speaking or not 

Sadly enough, there is no brother. Only one married sister. 

I did however feel up to adopting a kitty this week so I guess that's a start 

Wow I WANT A KITTY. Let's trade! You take the hunky (albeit oddly quirky) multilingual guy. I'll take the cat! 


This guy does sound mighty intriguing... .  Like Pearl, I sit with bated breath for the next installment of this particular telenovella


My twisted mind misread that as "testicular paranovella". My god. I've completely lost it. I'm not fit to date. 

Not to hijack Basement Dweller's dating thread, but Beaglegirl, I'm in a similar situation with a female friend. I can't decide if I should be hanging around her more, or if I'll just end up getting hurt when she hooks up with some other woman because, after all, we're just friends. I haven't been brave enough, like you were, to just ask. Too scared to ruin a long, supportive friendship.

No problem - hijack away! ;-) Of course you are welcome to join in.   I totally understand this. The awkward uncertainty of it all is what keeps me a little bit paralyzed with fear, too. And also coming from a pwBPD, (insane initial love-bombing) when I had a nice night with this guy, then he texted a bit but didn't ask me out again right away, I thought, "Ah, ok, he just sees me as a beer buddy... ." And I felt stupid for feeling like he might like me "that way"... .and we never really do know. I have always felt like asking the other person "what are we doing here?" points out an elephant in the room that drives the person to put the brakes on, since they may not have a clue either. So I just typically sit there confused having no real plan. I really do just SUCK at dating. Maybe I got sucked in with my exBPD so fast because he was so ON IT that I didn't have to do anything. There was no doubt he was mad about me... .until he was just mad AT me. 


Anyways, for what it's worth, I'll document where I am right now: if an opportunity presented itself to quietly and casually make the beast with someone, I'd consider it. I've gone out on a few "practice dates" — mainly to just have some connection and see if I still had some "mojo" after my uBPD's invalidation of me. My flirting has been kind of tepid and half-a**ed but I had a really nice smooch session after dancing with a very foxy lady of my own age.  I've gotten together a couple of times clandestinely with a single-mom friend and we've exchanged foot massage, caressing and what she calls platonic touch.

All of the above has been nice and validating. Well, it also seems a little more tepid and slow than what I was used to before I met my uBPD. But then again, my uBPD hit me with extreme love-bombing. I feel a bit of shame about wanting more validation and desire from these very casual encounters. So I'm letting that feeling sit there, and learning how to live with the discomfort.

Still, I'm feeling more cheerful that I have in ages. And very happy for you. Wishing you a great Friday!  CC

CC - I can totally understand why you are starting out slow and sort of putting your toes in the water before jumping in. Plus you are dealing with legal issues and a custody situation which absolutely makes things a lot more difficult. But you are at least taking some joy in some casual dating, and your friend whom you have had a bit of affection with. "Platonic touching"... .that's cute. I don't touch my platonic male friends like that. *wink wink*... .but seriously. You are doing it right! Move at your own pace, and start to rediscover attraction again - without all the turmoil and drama. It feels SO WEIRD to think about dating for me, though. I get it. Part of it feels like I am cheating on my pwBPD - but he cruelly threw me out of our life together months ago. I'm not doing anything wrong, even if it's a bit odd and scary for me right now.

Oh my gosh! I am so here for this thread! 

[breaks out popcorn and prosecco and cheers the other ladies on!]

I swear just when I think I could never, would never, possibly date ever again in life... .then I see this! I really am okay with the idea of being alone, but then I remember that rush of excitement, the first kiss, the clothes flying, finally seeing what was hiding under those clothes! hahahaaha. It's so fun!

Okay. I am up way too late and have a massive headache so this is all the cheer I can bring... .there is so much more to say though... .

Happy Friday! 

THANK YOU! You just reminded me that since he is in charge of the beverages... .I want prosecco! I'll be requesting that. 

"Clothes flying everywhere." I am seriously dying in my chair here. I now feel as if the bar is set high. It will essentially be date number 2, and I have never even kissed this man.

I have a hilarious visual in my head. I'll wear a demure, one piece, loose-fitting, pant-suit/jumper situation. But little will he know it will be lined with snaps on either side from top to bottom, and essentially, with one quick tug, it becomes a "break-away" jump suit. BAM! I'm naked!

I'll wow him with a fabulous dinner, some intelligent conversation, a glass of prosecco, and just as he's finishing his meal, I'll leap up from the table shouting, "I hope you enjoyed your dinner buddy, now put that fork down, and (*BAM - BREAK AWAY! let's make the beast with two backs!"

A real dramatic leaping up, and the simultaneous jump-suit breakaway. One fell swoop! Just the whoosh of fabric, and the sound of his fork clanging to the floor.

Can you guys imagine? I totally can.       






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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2018, 08:07:05 AM »

If you're one of those girls that doesn't kiss and tell you're going to have 20 VERY disappointed people here... .no pressure though     
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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2018, 08:24:13 AM »

If you're one of those girls that doesn't kiss and tell you're going to have 20 VERY disappointed people here... .no pressure though     

Oh, crap, haha! And if I don't kiss, then there will be nothing TO tell... .and everyone will still be disappointed. I wonder if this poor chap's ears are ringing right now.

Hopefully everyone will be satisfied with a recipe report. Even if my personal life isn't always steamy and delicious, my cooking typically is. 

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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2018, 09:15:50 AM »

YAY FRIDAY!  

Your writing is always delightful, BasementDweller and now I'm getting so much vicarious joy hearing about your exploits. Definitely want to know more--and yes, recipes would be appreciated. 

Cat
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« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2018, 09:30:35 AM »

Haha! Thank you, Cat. I think that writing and using weird humor are two of my more effective coping mechanisms. I don't always feel like writing - sometimes when I'm down I feel like self-isolating and not communicating at all. Other times, it's like a huge relief valve. I can usually find some twisted humor in just about anything, though.

Earlier today, before writing that post about the breakaway jumpsuit, I was in a painfully dull staff meeting at work, where everyone just sat bickering and talking in circles, having the same cyclic arguments we've been having all year with no results. (I don't participate. I just sit quietly and "absorb".)

I kept myself amused by imagining the jumpsuit scenario in vivid detail in my head, which resulted in having to bite down hard on the inside of my cheek to keep from laughing hysterically out loud. I think if anyone could see inside my head, they'd roll me out of here strapped to a hand cart, clad in a straight-jacket and Hannibal Lecter mask.

A forum filled with people who have survived BPD relationships maybe means a LOT of folks who are no strangers to "twisted minds and bizarre coping mechanisms". That probably suggests I can unleash my "creativity" here and some someone will get it. (Or at least tolerate it.)
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« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2018, 09:46:13 AM »

Oh, crap, haha! And if I don't kiss, then there will be nothing TO tell... .and everyone will still be disappointed. I wonder if this poor chap's ears are ringing right now.

Hopefully everyone will be satisfied with a recipe report. Even if my personal life isn't always steamy and delicious, my cooking typically is. 



No, we won't be disappointed! We'll just be making MORE popcorn for next time! It's bound to happen sooner or later! hahahhahaha.

It's hard to know if it is too soon, or not... .I have no steadfast rules with this... .each situation is different.

The description of the breakaway outfit was hilarious! This is great - humor! That is one of the best coping tools there is! Laughing, playing, dreaming!

If I was a betting gal I'd bet this just gets to a bit of smooching, heavy petting type stuff, but don't think that I'm thinking about it over here! hahahahahhaa! Don't worry about any of us! hee hee!

Also, thanks to whoever was saying all that sex positive stuff upstream here! I tell ya, after getting chastised like a bruja (witch) for years about my sexuality it's nice to hear some feminist freedom on this thread! Oh, it was Ms. Lady Itone!  But lots of echoes of it here.

Friendly reminder: live in the moment, enjoy the curry, have your fun! You so deserve it! 

with affection, pearl.

p.s. those texts are total gems! he's SO glad he met you! hilarious! ;)

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« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2018, 10:04:42 AM »


If I was a betting gal I'd bet this just gets to a bit of smooching, heavy petting type stuff, but don't think that I'm thinking about it over here! hahahahahhaa! Don't worry about any of us! hee hee!

Hmmmm. I bet my uterus just imploded. You just reminded me of something. The one single most mind-boggling intimate connection that I ever had was with an extremely introverted, cerebral I.T. systems specialist guy who had also worked for many years as a physics professor. He didn't say much to most people, and was known by all to be "quirky" and "a tightly closed book". Extremely mild mannered, always with his face buried in a book, seemingly impervious to the world around him. Not exactly a bastion of swaggering sexual confidence. When "it" finally happened, well... .this isn't an adult forum, but let's just say... .my eyes rolled so far back in my head that I saw God back there and I'm an atheist. There was a beast inside that quiet man, and still to this day, I can't have a conversation with him without remembering his "special skills" and feeling weak in the knees. We dated for a long time, and I deeply regret the loss of him. (Another long story for another thread... .) Still one of my very favorite people ever. For a number of reasons.

This "Just the Specs, Madame" guy triggers the exact same part of my brain that he did. That radar. For the quiet, cerebral type that becomes a smoldering powder keg when the jumpsuit breaks.   Did you ever see The Hobbit movie called "The Desolation of Smaug"? Remember when the dragon woke up?

Yeah. Like that.

I can smell a dragon from a mile away now. 


Also, thanks to whoever was saying all that sex positive stuff upstream here! I tell ya, after getting chastised like a bruja (witch) for years about my sexuality it's nice to hear some feminist freedom on this thread! Oh, it was Ms. Lady Itone!  But lots of echoes of it here.

Lady Itone for president! 



p.s. those texts are total gems! he's SO glad he met you! hilarious! ;)


Despite his extremely serious nature, he occasionally sends me Homer Simpson clips for no good reason. Solid guy, I tell ya. 
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« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2018, 12:38:39 PM »

You just reminded me of something. The one single most mind-boggling intimate connection that I ever had was with an extremely introverted, cerebral I.T. systems specialist guy who had also worked for many years as a physics professor. He didn't say much to most people, and was known by all to be "quirky" and "a tightly closed book". Extremely mild mannered, always with his face buried in a book, seemingly impervious to the world around him. Not exactly a bastion of swaggering sexual confidence. When "it" finally happened, well... .this isn't an adult forum, but let's just say... .my eyes rolled so far back in my head that I saw God back there and I'm an atheist. There was a beast inside that quiet man, and still to this day, I can't have a conversation with him without remembering his "special skills" and feeling weak in the knees.
This "Just the Specs, Madame" guy triggers the exact same part of my brain that he did. That radar. For the quiet, cerebral type that becomes a smoldering powder keg when the jumpsuit breaks.   Did you ever see The Hobbit movie called "The Desolation of Smaug"? Remember when the dragon woke up?

Yeah. Like that.


Oh my god that was amazing I read it 4 times. HELL YES! This is what love is supposed to feel like, not pain and strife, right?

Excerpt
Lady Itone for president!


With my scandalous past? No way! 

Love you guys, this thread is the bombdiggity 
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« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2018, 01:38:31 PM »

Oh my god that was amazing I read it 4 times. HELL YES! This is what love is supposed to feel like, not pain and strife, right?

I totally agree. Now I'm cautious because I don't want the pain and strife to come later. So I have to convince myself that it's ok to give a person a chance, and like Enabler said "They're not all out to get you." 


With my scandalous past? No way! 


You're a shoo-in! Kennedy, Clinton, Trump... .if those guys can do it... .you absolutely can.   And we need some diversity in that house... .for real!

Love you guys, this thread is the bombdiggity 

We love you too! 

Now I am going to be a damn mess tomorrow. We are meeting after work at 1700 our time to shop for food and wine and commence the fun. I am so NOT going to want to be at work tomorrow. It will be the longest day ever. 
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« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2018, 05:21:48 PM »

Now I am going to be a damn mess tomorrow. We are meeting after work at 1700 our time to shop for food and wine and commence the fun. I am so NOT going to want to be at work tomorrow. It will be the longest day ever. 
Good luck BD! I can feel the excitement from your post! Enjoy your date tomorrow and can't wait to hear all about it. Any ideas on what to wear yet? 
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2018, 01:53:53 AM »

Good luck BD! I can feel the excitement from your post! Enjoy your date tomorrow and can't wait to hear all about it. Any ideas on what to wear yet? 

I had all kinds of ideas, haha. But since I am meeting him directly from the office, it's not that exciting. Sort of classy/business/casual. Flattering, but not a huge wow factor. If I brought something way dressier then changed to meet him to go to the grocery store... .it would be obvious I was trying too hard. So I'm just gonna play it cool in my office clothes. 

Which means I'll have to cultivate a personality between now and 1700.   
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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2018, 02:07:31 AM »

No need for masks BD... .leave that to the PD folk. Be yourself, he's already attracted to that.
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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2018, 02:37:02 AM »

Thanks, Enabler! Naw, no masks! I was only making a self-deprecating joke. However, one thing that I learned early in life is that is that I quickly (and often) fall into the "beer buddy" category with so many guys, though in a way this is awesome. I have a lot of guy friends and they respect me in the same way they respect other guys in the "boys club".

However... .There have also been times when a guy I really liked and was swooning over chose a more traditionally "ladylike" girlfriend. One who knew how to flatter, be coy, and flirt. I'm kind of the crude tomboy buddy that chugs beer out of the bottle, wears jeans and flip-flops every day, is often covered in charcoal dust (if it's grilling season) and tends to rather unabashedly swear like a truck-driver and tell a lot of gross stories. I suppose enough men say I'm pretty, but definitely not "a typical girl". There are several reasons for this, but mainly, I'm just not the dainty type. I wasn't raised that way, and my brilliant, highly educated, professional mother had a high profile career, and also swore like a truck driver, told gross jokes, whipped up a mean BBQ, and was tough as hell. She took no sh!t. She told me to never apologize for being smart, mouthy, or wanting to drink whiskey instead of Chardonnay. (She's still alive, BTW and exactly the same at 70+.) My dad, at nearly 80 now, never imposed gender roles or standards of "ladylike conduct". He was proud that I knew how to change a tire on a tractor, and could throw a punch better than my older brother.

I'm introverted, sure. But when I'm comfortable with somebody, I'm really just... .one of the dudes. This works in my favor a lot. Unless I'm attracted to someone. Then... .?

I do think this guy likes me the way I am. So far. I also worry it might be morbid curiosity that will soon fade. He's very smart, refined, plays tennis, speaks five languages, and drinks fancy wine.

I'm crude, love toilet humor, trip over my own feet, drink cheap beer, and speak "sailor" and "truckdriver". A mask would be if I pretended to be a "girl". So I won't. But I wonder if he's just going to think I'm a complete... .guy. 
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« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2018, 04:17:18 AM »

Post 35 I think many/most chaps have learnt the lesson that they'd rather have someone who'd help them shovel sh!t all day, then have a good handle on which bit they want cranking at night... .and no trouble asking for it... .than someone who has great taste in handbags.

I don't think I'm off base by saying the majority of men want a simple, easy PARTNERSHIP where everyone mucks in and clears the decks to allow the fun to begin. I want patting on a bum when I'm off out with the boys, I want understanding that I WILL register T&A whilst I'm out because frankly I can't help it. (just reminisced on the desk that beach and pool holidays were a freakin' nightmare as I'd be accused of lusting after anything female... .my boss said I needed a massage, to which I responded "If I suggested getting a massage to my W I might as well suggest I was seeing a prostitute").

The irony is that my W is a ladette, she loves a pint and a good dirty joke, she even went on a friends stag do to Amsterdam... .but she held me to different unrealistic standard. What's the mask and what's abandonment fears... .I dunno.
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« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2018, 04:50:25 AM »

I think many/most chaps have learnt the lesson that they'd rather have someone who'd help them shovel sh!t all day, then have a good handle on which bit they want cranking at night... .and no trouble asking for it... .than someone who has great taste in handbags.


HAHA! This is excellent news, then! And also the funniest thing I have heard in quite some time. I suppose he somehow managed to figure out I was a girl - underneath it all. Or at least I hope he does eventually. Because I don't even have a handbag. Just a black canvas backpack from a sporting goods store. ;-)


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« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2018, 08:58:19 AM »

Which means I'll have to cultivate a personality between now and 1700.  

hahhahaa.  I started doing that when I was a kid and realized I was "short" in the looks department! hahahahaha. Or maybe it was just because of the small farm town I grew up in because the herds of fellas showed up later I must admit, hard to say! ;)

What is hilarious is am wearing a free shirt I got on the streets of San Francisco, well in the lobby of some museum, with that dragon on it right now! But I just wear it because it is soft, I had no idea who this dragon was! hahaahaha. Weird though, huh?

Yes, many cheers for Ms. Lady Itone  and a toast to sex positivity! 

Oh, and hello, your mom for president too! hahahahha.  

I'm not on the girly end of the spectrum myself! I hear ya sister!  

Is it Feierabend (getting off work time in German) yet?  

fun, fun, fun and happiness! pearl.  
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« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2018, 09:06:08 AM »

hahhahaa.  I started doing that when I was a kid and realized I was "short" in the looks department!

You most certainly are not!

What is hilarious is am wearing a free shirt I got on the streets of San Francisco, well in the lobby of some museum, with that dragon on it right now! But I just wear it because it is soft, I had no idea who this dragon was! hahaahaha. Weird though, huh?

I will consider that a positive omen! 


Yes, many cheers for Ms. Lady Itone  and a toast to sex positivity! 

Oh, and hello, your mom for president too! hahahahha.  

She IS awesome. And raised me right. ;-)


Is it Feierabend (getting off work time in German) yet? 

Almost. I leave my desk in 20 minutes to head one train stop away to the Lair of the Dragon. Then we grocery shop.  Paragraph header  (click to insert in post)

Where did you get the cheerleader emoji? My emoji list is sorely lacking.
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« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2018, 09:33:33 AM »

I quickly (and often) fall into the "beer buddy" category with so many guys, though in a way this is awesome. I have a lot of guy friends and they respect me in the same way they respect other guys in the "boys club".

However... .There have also been times when a guy I really liked and was swooning over chose a more traditionally "ladylike" girlfriend. One who knew how to flatter, be coy, and flirt. I'm kind of the crude tomboy buddy that chugs beer out of the bottle, wears jeans and flip-flops every day, is often covered in charcoal dust (if it's grilling season) and tends to rather unabashedly swear like a truck-driver and tell a lot of gross stories. He was proud that I knew how to change a tire on a tractor, and could throw a punch better than my older brother.

Wow!    Me too. It must be the INTJ thing. I've tried so hard to have some semblance of femininity but I just don't know how--clothes, hair, makeup--I'm a total failure at all of that. Funny thing is that others don't see me that way. I'm thin but strong and can get away with the "California girl" look so my lack of feminine skills goes largely unnoticed, since I live in a rural area instead of a big city.

And the flirting thing--I never figured that out. I just have these intense conversations about world events, politics, the environment... .whatever... .but I never have had any idea how to flirt and would have been terrified to try.

Definitely not a girly girl and my way of getting dressed up for dinner out is to shower, cut my fingernails really short, eliminating the dirt from the animals and garden, comb my hair and throw on a sundress and flip flops and call it good. I'm fortunate that my husband tolerates this. 
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2018, 09:41:47 AM »

Well BD, you are now headed toward your date and I bet you'll have a fabulous time. Remember the first thing he said to you was how he noticed your intelligence, and for a man who is so bright and accomplished, it must be as if he's found his match in you--not many unicorns out there!

So he definitely sees you, who you are, and that's who he's interested in. A nice feeling to be sure.   
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2018, 01:54:27 PM »

Did my thread get moved from Detatching to Learning? Hmmm... .the mods have more faith in my sanity right now than I do. 

   Dating threads all go to Learning. It can be hard for someone who has just broken up to read these.

I am entering into this plan knowing that the likelihood that the option to... .eh... ."make the beast with two backs" will present itself... // ...   I have to be honest and say I've gotten a marriage proposal or two out of it, or at least a few pairs of trousers falling off. Just saying. I didn't ASK for that in return. They just fell off. So I kinda know what I'm doing in extending this invitation.

Ah, a quote from Shakespeare.

Be careful BasementDweller.  While there is an old saying that the best way to get over a bad breakup is to get under someone... .or the best way to get over a bad breakup is by having rebound sex, researcher's have found this is a high risk antidote. In surveys over the years we know that many of the relationships that brought members here were rebounds or relationships started a time when the member was wounded or vulnerable.

Enjoy your date.
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« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2018, 02:37:37 PM »

Oh wow! What a fantastic thread! You are all awesome!

Excerpt
I'm kind of the crude tomboy buddy that chugs beer out of the bottle, wears jeans and flip-flops every day, is often covered in charcoal dust (if it's grilling season) and tends to rather unabashedly swear like a truck-driver and tell a lot of gross stories.

Excerpt
I'm introverted, sure. But when I'm comfortable with somebody, I'm really just... .one of the dudes.

Excerpt
I'm crude, love toilet humor, trip over my own feet, drink cheap beer, and speak "sailor" and "truckdriver". A mask would be if I pretended to be a "girl". So I won't. But I wonder if he's just going to think I'm a complete... .guy.

I just want to say Wow! ME TOO!  My fiance seems to appreciate this about me, though. We have a blast! We're both very nerdy and have the same sense of humor which makes everything that much more fun.     On a side note, sometimes my ex seemed to behave like the stereotypical wife and I tended to behave more like the stereotypical husband. Just find it interesting. I may start a new thread on this out of curiosity.

BD, I also find it fascinating that you sound a lot like me in your writing as well. I LOVE your writing! You've reminded me how much I miss my goofy quirky writing. I need to start writing again. Thank you! 

Skip does make a good point, though. *sigh*    

I really hope you have a wonderful time on your date! 
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« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2018, 03:19:55 PM »


And the flirting thing--I never figured that out. I just have these intense conversations about world events, politics, the environment... .whatever... .but I never have had any idea how to flirt and would have been terrified to try.


So this is something I (evidently) can give tips on.  My T mentioned a couple months ago that she thought I was a natural flirt.  I told my friends about her comment and their response was "Well duh!".  It seems I am a natural flirt, even when I'm not really trying.  I think that might be how I got into this whole thing with Neighbor B.  

When I asked what I do that would be considered flirty I got the following list:
-Smiling a lot
-Strong eye contact
-Engagement in what they have to say

To me those things just fall under the category of "friendly".  When I'm actually TRYING to flirt... .
-Shrink personal space boundaries: stand a little closer
-Touch: Light, brief touch on arm as part of conversation or linger just half a breath longer on incidental touch.
-Interrupted eye contact:  Make strong eye contact, look down or away, then reestablish eye contact.  This is more intentional than the normal drifting of eye contact that takes place.
-Comments that invite them to conjure up a mental image of you:  I am 99% sure that Neighbor B has filed away a mental image of me in footie pajamas.  Make that 100% sure, because he's alluded to it a few times.  This started when he made a comment about Gale Gadot (WonderWoman) being "easy on the eyes".  I responded that I had feminist feelings about the way female superheros are portrayed.  To which he responded, "You're not their target audience.  Besides, what would you have them wear?" My response {Flirt Alert} "I could save the world wearing footie pajamas."  It may not be the sexiest image, but I can guarantee that Neighbor B was no longer focused on Gale Gadot.  I kind of seized an opportunity for that one, but if you have a story or question (Do you think x hair color/glasses/piece of clothing would suit me?) that invites him to create that mental image... .
-Comments that could have additional meaning:  {Confession} I wish Neighbor B "sweet dreams" most nights when one of us says we need to stop playing Words With Friends and get some sleep.  There might be a slight hint in that wish that his sweet dreams might include the wisher of sweet dreams.  It's definitely a bit more personal than the "good night" we originally ended our evenings with.  I think any comment that leaves him wondering "is she flirting with me?" is far more effective than an outright flirty comment.
-Teasing:  It can sometimes take a little delicacy to find the right target and level of teasing, but it can definitely be fun.

Jeesh.  All this talking about flirting makes me think I need to go find a place to flirt this weekend.  

BG
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« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »

If I brought something way dressier then changed to meet him to go to the grocery store... .it would be obvious I was trying too hard. So I'm just gonna play it cool in my office clothes. 
Agreed... .but don't forget the red lipstick and eyeliner for a dramatic look=) Enjoy your date!
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« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2018, 09:59:05 PM »

Hi BD,

Now that we are past the anticipation and back on earth... .Hope that you are safe and okay!

This is your life and these are your choices and we are here to support your healing process.

I hope the evening was all you hoped for it to be. I know you are a mature, intelligent, empowered woman, but you have also been through quite a lot in this last relationship. We go way back from across the boards, back from your/our time supporting and sharing on Bettering, and I dearly remember how much you've made an effort to help others while processing your own pain.

No pressure from us here. We've had some fun with you, but are also mindful to balance that with our genuine concern. I know I've tried various formulas post breakup and so have you over the years! There is a lot of mental adjusting that goes on to set oneself back in order post-breakup.

In your gut what feels right now for you and your life? What is the healthiest way forward?

with compassion, pearl.
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« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2018, 04:13:55 AM »

I’m safe and quite ok.   Dinner was a smashing success. Still at the lair now. Will update soon!
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« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2018, 08:08:17 AM »

Hello BD,
   

I'm so glad you had a fabulous time!

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« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2018, 08:10:40 AM »

Hey BG,
Those are awesome tips on flirting. Thank you. I wish I'd known that when I was 16. I would have had a lot more fun. But I was too shy to even make eye contact.   

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« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2018, 08:17:13 PM »

Staff only

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  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

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Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

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