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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Lawyer Moving To Discovery. Advice?  (Read 438 times)
toomanydogs
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« on: September 14, 2018, 04:00:10 PM »

First, thank you to everyone on this forum. This is truly my link to reality and sanity. I've been going through some upheaval that has been pretty difficult, but now I am moving forward.

My L got back in touch with and has asked that I start thinking of what to request in discovery.

I'm pretty smart, but I had to look up exactly what discovery is; however, I'd still like advice.

No kids. Married 10 years. Together 11. Have a prenup, but the prenup waived my right to alimony, which is not enforceable.

STBX's family is rich. Fairly powerful.  FIL will be heavily involved.

Advice?

Thanks,
TMD
 
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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 12:05:12 PM »

Discovery can be anything that is material to what will be discussed in court.

We have asked for different things. When we went to court for joint custody and visitation plan we asked for school reports, financials, witnesses ex plans to have at trial (this is fairly standard), mental health reports etc.

When we went back for adjustment of child support it was mainly all about financials (taxes for the last 3 years, paystubs, resume, proof of applying for jobs etc., bank statements, journals etc.

I have learned that the discovery process can be anything you want and it is a standard legal process. If your Ex has a good lawyer he will get him to stall on this and will simply refuse to supply some discoveries that will be material for court. (this has happened to us).

You L should have a standard set of discovery questions ready for you.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 02:22:44 PM »

I would think you would ask for documents related to the trust in place for your STBX, as well as financial proof of layout over the years you were married, to prove what you were living on.

His mental health records... .

What is coming up for you?
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DivDad
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 04:13:13 PM »

'Not sure when the Div discussion or process began... .but in the discovery, you might ask if there were any name changes or transfer of assets regarding your STBx's property, trusts, etc... .in the past 3 to 5 years.  Each state has it's own retro active rules. 
Most courts frown upon new transfers and name changes that hide assets.

You might also ask if the FIL's firm (or other principals) have RECEIVED any transfer of assets from your STBx... .or assets that were at one time in the name of your STBx.   That is, go beyond the realm of your STBx's current assets.
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formflier
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 06:38:59 PM »



Ask your L what is recommended and also ask for an explanation why. 

I would add that you should discuss with your L asking for "any and all" communications between the CPA and FIL and STBX regarding the property you live in and payments for the temp order.

Your L will have advice on how to ask it several ways. 

The goal is "pressure".  My understanding is they aren't paying the temp order bills correctly... .and you are "discovering" what they are talking about... or "not talking about".

That will increase pressure on CPA and others involved that have professional licenses to worry about.  If there is a court order that they are not following... .or obstructing... .it can be an interesting thing for you to use to push for a settlement.

Ask your L about access to records for an "audit" or a "forensic account.

I would think tax returns for trust, stbx and FIL are all up for asking. 

Note... .they may "win" and not have to turn something over... .but the fact you are pushing for it... .is big.

FF
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kells76
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 09:39:20 AM »

Our situation was kid-related more than financial-related, but what SWow mentioned still held true:

Excerpt
If your Ex has a good lawyer he will get him to stall on this and will simply refuse to supply some discoveries that will be material for court.

The advice I would give is to have firm boundaries on your "fairness". Your ex may also present a list to you of things he and his L want for discovery. If you feel "fair" and like you "play by the rules", you may sweat about gathering everything on the list and turning it over "on time".

I would recommend being "firmly fair" so that you don't shoot yourself in the foot: "We have compiled the documents for discovery per your request. We are happy to EXCHANGE documentation pending confirmation that you have also compiled all requested documents."

I.e., don't turn over your stash before he does. But frame it as "Happy to do so once you have yours together too." Make sense?
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formflier
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 09:43:52 AM »


I would agree to this, up until the "deadline"  Make sure the deadline is clear.

Keep all documentation of when you were ready and your communications, then submit your discovery... all of it... .on time or a bit before.

Courts generally don't like game playing.  Clarify with documentation which party is playing games... and who is complying.

FF

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kells76
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 10:26:18 AM »

Good point from FF. I wonder if the "drop box" or submission location can be a neutral place (a L's office? other?) to hold the documents "in escrow".
I.e., some location can be found where you can confirm "Yes, I turned everything in on time" but the other party can't access it until they turn their stuff in. That would take away the "I'm personally keeping mine until you give me yours" aspect.
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formflier
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 10:54:34 AM »

Good point from FF. I wonder if the "drop box" or submission location can be a neutral place (a L's office? other?) to hold the documents "in escrow".
I.e., some location can be found where you can confirm "Yes, I turned everything in on time" but the other party can't access it until they turn their stuff in. That would take away the "I'm personally keeping mine until you give me yours" aspect.

This should be a lawyer to lawyer thing, with appropriate documentation. 

There has been some lawyer changing (on their side)... .so that's something to keep an eye on.  But... .as a matter of professionalism, if their side says they have everything on the list (and they say that in email... so it's in writing)... that's really good enough.

If you send them your stuff in digital format and then they don't send after saying they have it (again... their lawyer saying this)... then that really changes the tone of the entire thing and brings up ethical issues.

I doubt anygood lawyer would do that.  The might play games of saying they don't have it all yet etc etc... .but I would be shocked with a L going along with an outright lie/deception of "I have it"... .when they don't.

All that being said... .these issues are really important to think through.


FF
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toomanydogs
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 04:36:31 PM »

Hey all,
  I don't know where I was that I didn't realize people had responded to my question. Thank you. Thank you all.

  Now let's see if I can re-respond. 

  SoundofMusicgirl. Thank you. What I'll request, per my L's instruction, will relate only to assets/income and that sort of thing. However, should FIL or STBX request anything of a personal nature from me, I will request that, as well.

  Gagril What was coming up for me, and has since been alleviated a bit, was the feeling that I was in over my head, not really knowing or understanding what I should turn over, what I should request. I guess the feeling that they're all-powerful and I'm not. That isn't true, but sometimes it's how I feel. If that makes sense.

  DivDad STBX left me August of 2017, filed for divorce the end of that month. Nothing has really gotten started except that I got interim money to live on. And yesterday my L sent email to the lawyers representing FIL and STBX asking that they all work out a schedule for discovery and the divorce finalizing instead of going to court. I gotta say I like that my L is taking the lead here. FIL and STBX lawyers haven't been really moving forward, as far as I can tell.

  FF excellent suggestions. There are so many problems regarding the upkeep of this house as a result of my not being given the money or authority to fix things. I will also ask for correspondence between FIL and the new property manager. And, yes, a forensic accountant for some of the more complicated aspects of my STBX's wealth. I don't understand his offshore accounts or his pass through income. There's a lot I don't understand, and I think it would benefit me to have a thorough understanding of what's involved here.

  kells76 I have a suspicion that my FIL may opt not to engage in discovery and move ahead with an offer. Understandably, he's a bit secretive about money, and I think the more I can request in discovery regarding financial holdings, the more likely he is to want to move forward with offers and counter offers and bypass discovery altogether. I'll need to think which is going to benefit me more.

  FF (again)STBX's old lawyer (and L actually was quite old.  ) "lost" things all the time and then tried to stop interim from going forward by maintaining my L and I hadn't provided requested documentation. Not true. STBX's new lawyer is one I respect, and actually I'd requested that L to be settlement facilitator. Good reputation. Only thing I don't like about that L is the fact they are now representing my STBX. 

  My L yesterday sent dates to the other lawyers involved. The one area my L didn't really touch on was when to expect settlement to wrap up as the other lawyers haven't even gotten back to mine regarding our suggestions for settlement facilitators--another reason I'm wondering if FIL is going to want to opt out of discovery. I have nothing to lose by turning over documents for my part. I've not hidden anything, and what I told in-laws when they were "vetting" me is still true: I have nothing in my past except bad credit. Managed to get the bad credit up to fair credit but it has tumbled once again.

  So, to wrap up, I'm now looking at discovery as something that can only benefit me. Also--I need to share. I've struggled for the past year with this. Sometimes I've been like on-the-ground crying. It's been hard. Really hard. But this past week, what I realized is that my FIL and his lawyers can take nothing from me of value. They can't take my family, my relationships, my animals, my writing. None of that. The only thing they can do is give me less money than I think I deserve. That's it.

  In contrast, the only thing that matters to my STBX (not sure about my FIL) is money. So I'm in this weird position of knowing that whatever settlement I get is going to truly hurt my STBX, as money and standing are the only things that matter.

  In a weird and slightly uncomfortable way I feel enormously empowered by that recognition.

Thanks everyone!   
TMD
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