Shot myself in the foot

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

For months now I've been slowly but surely distancing myself from him. I have gained much insight about myself and I can confidently say I'm wiser and more in touch with who I am. Unfortunately, it feels like it had to come to years of mental anguish dealing with this individual for me to "get it".

I understand why we will never work out. I accept how much hurt there is between us. I don't want him in my life.

But he continues to bother me. He continues to reach out to me. The pattern is consistently like this (quotations are because the words are verbatim):

1. Sends email messages that not only sound non threatening, but tail between legs sort of nuance.

2. Calls at least once daily, will not leave voicemail.

3. I eventually pick up. (Please don't judge--I feel like an idiot already.)

4. "When at I going to see you?" he asks. I calmly reply that I don't want to see him, that it's over. Please stop contacting me.

5. While I'm speaking he is repeating, chanting, "When am I going to see you? Don't you miss me?"

6. I tell him that I cannot see him anymore, that I am too upset and need time to heal.

7. "You think I'm not hurt? I need to heal too!" he shouts.

8. I ask him to respect my wishes and leave me alone. I am emotional because his screaming is scaring me.

9. "So everything you've said to me is a lie? How typical... .you and your lies."

10. I stopped falling for that provocation a while ago. Instead I say, "Yes, you're right. I lied."

11. He demands to know why. And says that he deserves explanations... .ultimately this leads to his demanding that I "make it up to him".

12. I stay quiet. I'm getting angrier by the second and tell him I need to go. I hang up.

13. He will continue to call for hours. I do eventually pick up against my better judgement. Now I'm in red zone.

14. He demands that I meet him and say to his face that I never want to see him again. He promises he will leave me alone after that. I remind him that the last time I gave in to that he raped me.

15. Over the past year he has said everything from denying it completely, shaming me (Why haven't I contacted the police?, I wanted it and that's the truth, etc.) He did it because he was afraid he'd never get to see me again... .

16. This is when he gets uber defensive and his true self surfaces. He begins to attack me. He starts calling me names. He says that everyone will know that he died because of me. And when he's done he says, "But despite all your shortcomings and horrible nature, I still love you and want to be with you."

17. He reminds me that I told him once that I cannot stop him from harming himself. He takes something I said from a different conversation on a different day and pieces the aforementioned thought with the following, "You even said that you would die if I died. How manipulative can you be?"

18. I stand my ground and say firmly that I still don't want to be with him and want nothing but peace in order to move on without him.

18. He speaks over me and says, "You do love me. Say it. Say you love me."

19. Now my blood is boiling and I tell him that I cannot deal with this. I am emotional and begin to cry. I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm everything but positive and happy. I tell him that our interaction makes me so upset why can't he see that? This is not constructive.

20. "Then meet me. See me and hold me. Tell me you love me. And then I'll make sure you never see me again. Not just you, everyone. I'll go away for good."

21. I tell him I have to hang up. I cannot engage in this. He asks why I'm crying if I don't care about him. I fall for it and say that I'm crying because I'm angry with myself and that this is a sick cycle that is draining the life out of the both of us. Please, please, please leave me alone, and please move on.

22. His voice changes and he says I need to get a grip, that I'm out of control. "Something is wrong with you! Why are you so hysterical?"

23. I'm begging him to stop calling me. I'm telling him that this chaos makes me feel suicidal. I ask him nicely to please help me heal, and that I don't want to be in pain anymore.

24. He starts to laugh maniacally and says "You're crazy. You've been in therapy for the past year and this is where you're at? Has your therapist told you yet that you're crazy? You're delusional. You're a liar--you said it yourself and I feel sorry for you."

25. I hang up and he proceeds to leave messages revolving around the theme of how manipulative I am, that I'm an awful person... .I delete and don't hear the rest.


Is this ever going to end? Why do I continue to engage? Why do I continue to overestimate my ability to handle him? I clearly lose each and every time. Why do I continue to allow this to happen? I believe that at this juncture, he's not the problem--I am.

[Getoverit]

For months now I've been slowly but surely distancing myself from him. I have gained much insight about myself and I can confidently say I'm wiser and more in touch with who I am. Unfortunately, it feels like it had to come to years of mental anguish dealing with this individual for me to "get it".

I understand why we will never work out. I accept how much hurt there is between us. I don't want him in my life.

But he continues to bother me. He continues to reach out to me. The pattern is consistently like this (quotations are because the words are verbatim):

1. Sends email messages that not only sound non threatening, but tail between legs sort of nuance.

2. Calls at least once daily, will not leave voicemail.

3. I eventually pick up. (Please don't judge--I feel like an idiot already.)

4. "When at I going to see you?" he asks. I calmly reply that I don't want to see him, that it's over. Please stop contacting me.

5. While I'm speaking he is repeating, chanting, "When am I going to see you? Don't you miss me?"

6. I tell him that I cannot see him anymore, that I am too upset and need time to heal.

7. "You think I'm not hurt? I need to heal too!" he shouts.

8. I ask him to respect my wishes and leave me alone. I am emotional because his screaming is scaring me.

9. "So everything you've said to me is a lie? How typical... .you and your lies."

10. I stopped falling for that provocation a while ago. Instead I say, "Yes, you're right. I lied."

11. He demands to know why. And says that he deserves explanations... .ultimately this leads to his demanding that I "make it up to him".

12. I stay quiet. I'm getting angrier by the second and tell him I need to go. I hang up.

13. He will continue to call for hours. I do eventually pick up against my better judgement. Now I'm in red zone.

14. He demands that I meet him and say to his face that I never want to see him again. He promises he will leave me alone after that. I remind him that the last time I gave in to that he raped me.

15. Over the past year he has said everything from denying it completely, shaming me (Why haven't I contacted the police?, I wanted it and that's the truth, etc.) He did it because he was afraid he'd never get to see me again... .

16. This is when he gets uber defensive and his true self surfaces. He begins to attack me. He starts calling me names. He says that everyone will know that he died because of me. And when he's done he says, "But despite all your shortcomings and horrible nature, I still love you and want to be with you."

17. He reminds me that I told him once that I cannot stop him from harming himself. He takes something I said from a different conversation on a different day and pieces the aforementioned thought with the following, "You even said that you would die if I died. How manipulative can you be?"

18. I stand my ground and say firmly that I still don't want to be with him and want nothing but peace in order to move on without him.

18. He speaks over me and says, "You do love me. Say it. Say you love me."

19. Now my blood is boiling and I tell him that I cannot deal with this. I am emotional and begin to cry. I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm everything but positive and happy. I tell him that our interaction makes me so upset why can't he see that? This is not constructive.

20. "Then meet me. See me and hold me. Tell me you love me. And then I'll make sure you never see me again. Not just you, everyone. I'll go away for good."

21. I tell him I have to hang up. I cannot engage in this. He asks why I'm crying if I don't care about him. I fall for it and say that I'm crying because I'm angry with myself and that this is a sick cycle that is draining the life out of the both of us. Please, please, please leave me alone, and please move on.

22. His voice changes and he says I need to get a grip, that I'm out of control. "Something is wrong with you! Why are you so hysterical?"

23. I'm begging him to stop calling me. I'm telling him that this chaos makes me feel suicidal. I ask him nicely to please help me heal, and that I don't want to be in pain anymore.

24. He starts to laugh maniacally and says "You're crazy. You've been in therapy for the past year and this is where you're at? Has your therapist told you yet that you're crazy? You're delusional. You're a liar--you said it yourself and I feel sorry for you."

25. I hang up and he proceeds to leave messages revolving around the theme of how manipulative I am, that I'm an awful person... .I delete and don't hear the rest.


Is this ever going to end? Why do I continue to engage? Why do I continue to overestimate my ability to handle him? I clearly lose each and every time. Why do I continue to allow this to happen? I believe that at this juncture, he's not the problem--I am.

[Euler2718]

Items 13 and 24 on your list - obviously, this person's wants/needs are more important to him than your boundaries.

I don't know what to say to help you but I think you'll be ok. You have a therapist. People who are better at helping will reply to your post. Also, you're not wanting to go back in, right? Then your situation becomes not a BPD issue as much as "how to get away from a stalker".

Good luck and best wishes. This person will not be "on you" forever. My friend had a very possessive boyfriend years ago, but she never sees him anymore and he married someone else.

[Euler2718]

( I meant item 23 not 24 in the above)

[Getoverit]

No, I don't want to be in any sort of relationship with him. I wish I could turn back time and not meet him at all.

I know I'll be okay. Thank you for the encouragement.

[Baglady]

Hi Getoverit,

Really, really trying to be kind here BUT I think you know the answer to this lies in #3.  If you don't answer the call, he can't engage with you (and all the steps after #3 simply are avoided).

I've learnt myself (the hard way) that I avoid the crazy by not engaging with the crazy.  I could have written your entire conversation myself - the BPD patterns are so dang familiar - and ultimately they are such a futile drain on your emotions and time and life energy.  And it is obvious, he is getting so much out of needling you... .

I'm trying to be as gentle as possible here but I think you have to do some serious inner work around why you feel compelled to talk to him in the first place?  Is there a part of you that thrives on the drama?  Is this type of contact (no matter how abusive and it IS abusive) with him better than none?  Why when it seems like you have done a lot of inner work and making steps to move on?  What needs are you trying to meet when you pick up that phone?  Does some part of you believe that you deserve this kind of treatment (you absolutely don't!)?  Why do you think it is your assigned lot in life to know how to "handle" him instead of kicking him to the curb?

It's so, so hard but I think you already know in your heart what you really need to do 

Warmly,
B

[CryWolf]

Im sorry youre going through this difficult time. I know this cycle is exhausting and taking a huge toll on you. Just like you, many of us here also questioned our own sanities and took on blame and abuse during the relationship or post relationship.

you are not the problem here. 

I dont blame for you keeping in contact with him. It might be possibly due to trauma bonding. Do you think this might sound something applicable?

in time things will get better. Slowly but surely you can get through this.

[Feeling Better]

Hi there Getoverit

Reading your post touched me and I want to say how sorry I am to hear that you are going through this.

However, I do agree with Baglady, if you don’t engage with him you will avoid all those unpleasantries, so what makes you decide to respond to him do you think? What thoughts are in your mind and how are you feeling when you answer the call?

On a practical note, you could just block him or is that something that you wouldn’t consider at this point? 

[Cat Familiar]

Having stayed in a relationship with a very abusive ex-husband for many years (infidelity, extreme financial irresponsibility, verbal and physical abuse, etc.), I can say I do understand what you're going through.

My take on it is that you're a really nice person who feels that it just wouldn't be kind to avoid answering the phone and that he would continue to call until you pick up. You just want him to finally understand that you're DONE. But that is unlikely if you do speak with him because he feels his persuasive ability will eventually wear down your barriers.

Perhaps, like me, you are a perpetual optimist and believe that somehow you will be able to communicate to him and he will understand that you no longer want anything to do with him (and perhaps even the "why" behind your feelings).

I tried to explain over and over to my ex how his behavior impacted me, and like what you're experiencing, he completely ignored my feelings and turned everything around and pointed to his own "victimhood" at my hands.  

He even demanded that I immediately fly hundreds of miles home the day after my father died, or he would commit suicide. I dealt with lots of suicide threats over the years--"And you'll always remember, that it was your fault that I killed myself."

For me, that was the final straw. I asked him how he planned to do it, if he wanted to be buried or cremated and if he wanted his mother and sisters to view his body. He never again threatened me about suicide, but he did use that same ploy with his next girlfriend, who confessed to me that he was suicidal.

You know this guy is very manipulative, unkind and uses projection to accuse you of things that he's doing. I doubt that he'd ever be capable of understanding just how you feel.

I ran into my ex a couple of years after the divorce, where I ended up paying tens of thousands of dollars on credit card bills he had run up. When I saw him, one of the things he said was "I'm really not a bad guy." I was thinking, "Whoa, that's what you think! Good luck with that."

Now, years later, I still get phone calls from creditors who are trying to track him down for unpaid bills--and apparently he lives on the opposite coast.

[Cromwell]

Hi Getoverit

Change your phone number if possible.

It was just a mental antagonism unless i cut myself off any way for her to contact, it helped a great deal to heal - in time - not having to feel distraught by these types of unwanted calls/texts/social media stuff.

[Mustbeabetterway]

  getoverit,

First of all big hugs to you.    you have been through so much.  No judgement here.  I totally get where you are coming from.  I have had the hardest time letting go and not feeling responsible for my husband.  It’s like I cared more about his feelings than my own.  It’s taken a lot but finally, I am feeling less guilty and responsible for his choices.

I tried blocking my husband, but we needed to communicate some about financial matters that still connect us.  So I understand.  I’m hoping to take some legal steps soon that will end that reason tonspeak with him.  May I ask, without judgement, why have you not blocked your ex?  Maybe we could help you work through this .

Looking forward to hearing from you, we care and are here to listen and support.

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe

[Getoverit]

Hello kind family members,

I hope you all are understanding of my writing one post to address the concerns and advice you have all been so generous to contribute.

Today I changed my number and deleted my email account. It took my entire afternoon but I believe the few hours I invested will save me from suffering many years to come.

Baglady, you aren't being harsh. I do need to be reminded that these problems boil down to my deciding to engage. He is too lazy, cheap, and cowardly to track me down physically and confront me. I have moved numerous times and now I live in a different country.

There are no more excuses. It is up to me to move on. Indeed, I continue to examine myself, my past, and how it affects my own actions today. I too am an optimist, but it has been misdirected and misused. I need to be more optimistic about my ability to change so that I can be healthier.

I'm no longer sad about the failed relationship. I am now and then angry, and I think that's part of why I engage with him. I see how angry he is and I empathize and want to call a truce. But, he never shares that goal and instead wants to fight--always.

Thank you everyone for taking interest in my challenges. Your support has been invaluable and I am better with all your help. I hope to have good news about my progress soon.

[Radcliff]

I am impressed that you have taken such decisive action.  I hope it brings you a great measure of peace, and that the peace it brings accelerates your healing.

RC

[Baglady]

Hi Getoverit,

So proud of you for being so decisive and taking such strong action, I know how hard that must have been. Well done you!

Please put all that caring, loving energy of yours on your own good self instead of him.  YOU deserve it all and so much more in this life after all the abuse you have been subjected to.

Hugs and healing 

Warmly,

B

[Cat Familiar]

That was a very wise step to take. You gave him many opportunities to come to a truce and he made his choice. Now you’ve made yours. A very powerful step in moving on to a brighter future!