I'm tired of crying, the sadness is still there and still the same

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

This post follows on from a previous thread which can be found HERE

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your responses.

I cry and cry and I'm tired of crying. It's like no matter how much I cry, the sadness is still there and still the same.

I miss her... .i miss my friends who unfriended me. I miss the places that I was part of and now can't go to anymore as "an abuser". I moved to this foreign country to study and now have settled here. It took me a while to fit in and make a home out of it... .and all of it is lost now. It's gone... .

I don't see the blessing in this. It took so much effort to get to that point for me. I was finally, after all these years, graduated, finally having a job, paying my loans back, moving up in life, having people I can consider as friends and family in this country, I was settling well. I thought my ex was the icing and cherry on the cake, I felt things were really getting better... .now I lost it. What I made from a foreign country into a home was just shattered... .She crumbled my home. She has all her friends, our gay community that I lost because I'm the "abuser, she even has her house and her family whom she hates here... .Me? I just have myself... .

I wasn't accepted as a gay person in my home country and by my family, thus the reason why I came to this country. It  still took so long before I was comfortable telling people I am gay and when I finally got the courage to do so, I felt so liberated and met people the same as me. They became my family, my community. I then met her and fell in love with her and she didn't want me... .later she changed her mind and here I am... .I lost it all... .I've never felt this broken, not even when my family didn't accept me being gay. At least, that I expected... .now I am rejected from my own community... .I cannot seem to fit anywhere, it seems... .Yet I still love her and want her to know that I'm not abusive and for her to see the light and come back. It's all a dream that will never happen.

When she broke up with me, I defended myself but later, accepted what she said. Told her to give me a chance, that I would go to therapy for being abusive... .to just give me a chance... .I begged on my knees, crying... .she replied "Sky, you are turning 26 soon". I tried to talk to her and get her to talk to me but she was ice-cold. In the end, she was like "alright, you have 5 minutes" and put a timer on her phone for 5 minutes... .The pressure of having just 5 minutes to say what is on my heart was too much... .all I said was "sorry" and "I love you" multiple times until the time ran out... .and she walked out with a "goodbye".

Educated_Guess, there is no need to apologise. I do journal, I have written more than I have ever before. I've gone through nearly every event with my therapist and she breaks it apart for me and shows me how my ex exaggerated things or took things wrong or even if I did something wrong, I didn't merit the response from her.

My ex would get angry at me for saying stuff about her hair, her body and what not and she said it was mean but hey, she started it, way before when we were friends, and I decided when we got together that instead of create an issue everytime she does that, to just let it slide and not take it personally so I started doing it too. It's double standards. She goes around doing things not caring how it can affect me and when I tell her to do it differently or change something, she says I am controlling. I came out to my housemates because my ex was coming over every weekend and it made me feel very scared because of my experience being  gay in my home country. My housemates didn't say anything but I was still scared so to not aggravate my housemates (in case one of them was homophobic and wanted to tell the landlord I am having someone over when I shouldn't. I was scared of being evicted as my landlord seems like someone who could be homophobic), I asked her to wear a jacket over her tanktop, she said I was controlling how she dresses, nevermind I never asked her to do so anywhere other than my house.

I went through so much sh1t for being gay in my home country and I told her all about it... .you would think she would understand... .she didn't... .I know, being scared of being evicted is so extreme, I don't think people can legally do that but I wasn't gonna test that theory.

I did tell her "you never listen to me" many times when she complained about things and when I would point out a solution, she would decide not to take the advice. She told me she didn't like me saying that and I told her I would work on it and I was. She told me to fix so many things and I told her I would work on it, to give me time. There is only so much I can work on simultaneously... .She didn't give me time. It's like every weekend, we would have a great time together and then during the week, when we didn't see each other, she would come up with a new issue, a new rule... .it was so hard to keep up.

I keep blaming the breakup on myself... .I was really sick that week and was having really bad heartburn due to acid reflux, couldn't keep anything down. She decided that it was a good time to discuss her session with her therapist. How she could cry with her T but doesn't feel safe to do so with me anymore. I said that's fair enough because I'm struggling with her crying. It's always crying and she is rarely happy and it is making me really low, I need some happy times. I told her that I couldn't support her all the time anymore, that she needed to talk to her friends as well... .I was invalidating in explaining to her how how my mood drops when she is in that mood and that my mood drop is bigger than hers (since she is already in a sh1tty mood) and I unknowingly invalidated her by "telling her" how she feels. I just didn't know how to explain it other than to put it in context of her own feelings... .I thought it would be easier to understand like that (I was talking in context of depression - silly me forgot she had BPD, plus I didn't know much about BPD and thus shot myself in the foot).

She was supposed to come to my place with some meds for me that night but cancelled and it pissed me off because she cancels so regularly and most of the time, it is at the very last minute. Like when you are already waiting for her to be on her way or waiting for her to be at the door at anytime. Then she cancels. I was hurt because me being sick was of no great importance to her.

That was basically our last text war (Fri) and she came the next day (Sat), brought me my meds and accompanied me to my doctor's appointment and then broke up with me when we got home. I spoke to her and managed to change her mind, she stayed over and left my place the next day to go to work (Sun). Then on Monday, said she doesn't want to talk and wants no contact for the day, I left her alone. Then at midnight, asks to meet me the next day (Tues) and breaks up with me for the final time, gives me 5 minutes to talk and leaves. Note that I was at home all those weekdays because I was sick and couldn't go to work. I took nearly that whole week off nursing my health and broken heart. It was a nightmare.

I blame myself for saying I cannot support her, that I needed a break as I was too drained, I blame myself for invalidating her and telling her how she feels. I also feel like after saying I couldn't support her anymore, even if it was temporary, she felt I was no longer of any use and dropped me like trash... .It breaks my heart everyday... .

Thank you all for your support... .I have no one here. Can't speak to friends, they are gone... .the ones I tried speaking to, said they didn't want to get involved or listened to me but unfriended me later... .I cannot speak to my family, they think I'm no longer gay, I'm straight... .I only have you guys, my LD best-friend and my therapist... .

~Sky

[Sky07]

This post follows on from a previous thread which can be found HERE

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your responses.

I cry and cry and I'm tired of crying. It's like no matter how much I cry, the sadness is still there and still the same.

I miss her... .i miss my friends who unfriended me. I miss the places that I was part of and now can't go to anymore as "an abuser". I moved to this foreign country to study and now have settled here. It took me a while to fit in and make a home out of it... .and all of it is lost now. It's gone... .

I don't see the blessing in this. It took so much effort to get to that point for me. I was finally, after all these years, graduated, finally having a job, paying my loans back, moving up in life, having people I can consider as friends and family in this country, I was settling well. I thought my ex was the icing and cherry on the cake, I felt things were really getting better... .now I lost it. What I made from a foreign country into a home was just shattered... .She crumbled my home. She has all her friends, our gay community that I lost because I'm the "abuser, she even has her house and her family whom she hates here... .Me? I just have myself... .

I wasn't accepted as a gay person in my home country and by my family, thus the reason why I came to this country. It  still took so long before I was comfortable telling people I am gay and when I finally got the courage to do so, I felt so liberated and met people the same as me. They became my family, my community. I then met her and fell in love with her and she didn't want me... .later she changed her mind and here I am... .I lost it all... .I've never felt this broken, not even when my family didn't accept me being gay. At least, that I expected... .now I am rejected from my own community... .I cannot seem to fit anywhere, it seems... .Yet I still love her and want her to know that I'm not abusive and for her to see the light and come back. It's all a dream that will never happen.

When she broke up with me, I defended myself but later, accepted what she said. Told her to give me a chance, that I would go to therapy for being abusive... .to just give me a chance... .I begged on my knees, crying... .she replied "Sky, you are turning 26 soon". I tried to talk to her and get her to talk to me but she was ice-cold. In the end, she was like "alright, you have 5 minutes" and put a timer on her phone for 5 minutes... .The pressure of having just 5 minutes to say what is on my heart was too much... .all I said was "sorry" and "I love you" multiple times until the time ran out... .and she walked out with a "goodbye".

Educated_Guess, there is no need to apologise. I do journal, I have written more than I have ever before. I've gone through nearly every event with my therapist and she breaks it apart for me and shows me how my ex exaggerated things or took things wrong or even if I did something wrong, I didn't merit the response from her.

My ex would get angry at me for saying stuff about her hair, her body and what not and she said it was mean but hey, she started it, way before when we were friends, and I decided when we got together that instead of create an issue everytime she does that, to just let it slide and not take it personally so I started doing it too. It's double standards. She goes around doing things not caring how it can affect me and when I tell her to do it differently or change something, she says I am controlling. I came out to my housemates because my ex was coming over every weekend and it made me feel very scared because of my experience being  gay in my home country. My housemates didn't say anything but I was still scared so to not aggravate my housemates (in case one of them was homophobic and wanted to tell the landlord I am having someone over when I shouldn't. I was scared of being evicted as my landlord seems like someone who could be homophobic), I asked her to wear a jacket over her tanktop, she said I was controlling how she dresses, nevermind I never asked her to do so anywhere other than my house.

I went through so much sh1t for being gay in my home country and I told her all about it... .you would think she would understand... .she didn't... .I know, being scared of being evicted is so extreme, I don't think people can legally do that but I wasn't gonna test that theory.

I did tell her "you never listen to me" many times when she complained about things and when I would point out a solution, she would decide not to take the advice. She told me she didn't like me saying that and I told her I would work on it and I was. She told me to fix so many things and I told her I would work on it, to give me time. There is only so much I can work on simultaneously... .She didn't give me time. It's like every weekend, we would have a great time together and then during the week, when we didn't see each other, she would come up with a new issue, a new rule... .it was so hard to keep up.

I keep blaming the breakup on myself... .I was really sick that week and was having really bad heartburn due to acid reflux, couldn't keep anything down. She decided that it was a good time to discuss her session with her therapist. How she could cry with her T but doesn't feel safe to do so with me anymore. I said that's fair enough because I'm struggling with her crying. It's always crying and she is rarely happy and it is making me really low, I need some happy times. I told her that I couldn't support her all the time anymore, that she needed to talk to her friends as well... .I was invalidating in explaining to her how how my mood drops when she is in that mood and that my mood drop is bigger than hers (since she is already in a sh1tty mood) and I unknowingly invalidated her by "telling her" how she feels. I just didn't know how to explain it other than to put it in context of her own feelings... .I thought it would be easier to understand like that (I was talking in context of depression - silly me forgot she had BPD, plus I didn't know much about BPD and thus shot myself in the foot).

She was supposed to come to my place with some meds for me that night but cancelled and it pissed me off because she cancels so regularly and most of the time, it is at the very last minute. Like when you are already waiting for her to be on her way or waiting for her to be at the door at anytime. Then she cancels. I was hurt because me being sick was of no great importance to her.

That was basically our last text war (Fri) and she came the next day (Sat), brought me my meds and accompanied me to my doctor's appointment and then broke up with me when we got home. I spoke to her and managed to change her mind, she stayed over and left my place the next day to go to work (Sun). Then on Monday, said she doesn't want to talk and wants no contact for the day, I left her alone. Then at midnight, asks to meet me the next day (Tues) and breaks up with me for the final time, gives me 5 minutes to talk and leaves. Note that I was at home all those weekdays because I was sick and couldn't go to work. I took nearly that whole week off nursing my health and broken heart. It was a nightmare.

I blame myself for saying I cannot support her, that I needed a break as I was too drained, I blame myself for invalidating her and telling her how she feels. I also feel like after saying I couldn't support her anymore, even if it was temporary, she felt I was no longer of any use and dropped me like trash... .It breaks my heart everyday... .

Thank you all for your support... .I have no one here. Can't speak to friends, they are gone... .the ones I tried speaking to, said they didn't want to get involved or listened to me but unfriended me later... .I cannot speak to my family, they think I'm no longer gay, I'm straight... .I only have you guys, my LD best-friend and my therapist... .

~Sky

[Harley Quinn]

Sky, how are you doing today?

Love and light x

[Sky07]

Hi Harley Quinn,

I'm doing the same as before. The same as outline in my previous message. I didn't address my last reply to anyone specifically, unsure if you all read it.

In fact, I've been doing worse as time goes by. I remember the friends I've lost and I feel sad, betrayed and thrown out like trash, same when I remember my ex... .nothing really helps. I go home after work and cry all the time. I keep checking that blog of hers to see if she mentions me but nah, not even to say I'm "abusive", not even to complain about me. She has totally forgotten me. I've been completely erased. She is instead going through her own issues and it makes me sad because I want to be there for her... .I want her happy... .but happy with me... .and it's impossible.

~ Sky

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Sky, yes I saw your post and noticed you were online so thought I'd check how you're doing.  I'm so sorry to hear that you feel things are not improving.    You're grieving and it's really hard.  Can you identify what you would like to aim for right now?  Maybe something manageable, like a small step in the right direction.  What could you do today to help yourself to feel good about yourself or show yourself kindness?

I remember the friends I've lost and I feel sad, betrayed and thrown out like trash, same when I remember my ex... .nothing really helps.

Rejection is tough and for it to be a feeling of group rejection has to be so difficult for you.     What opportunities do you have to network in new ways?  Is there something you yourself aspire to that you could join a group for locally?  Somewhere you can spend time to relax and unwind with an interest where you could meet like minded individuals with the same interest?  It can be hard to see at the time, but the old adage 'as one door closes, another opens' I have found to be very true.  It takes a conscious shift to move towards that open door though and when we're depressed that can be really tough.  Have you spoken to the doctor about how difficult your feelings are right now?

I keep checking that blog of hers to see if she mentions me but nah, not even to say I'm "abusive", not even to complain about me.

OK I think you can guess what I'm going to say here.  You're having a really hard time right now and it's important that you show yourself compassion by not doing this to yourself.  Can you put a boundary around checking this?  Pay attention to your body and what sensations arise for you when you do look.  That feeling of discomfort is your body's way of raising the alarm that this is harmful for your healing.  What else can you do with that time that will be positive for yourself?

She is instead going through her own issues and it makes me sad because I want to be there for her... .I want her happy... .but happy with me... .and it's impossible.

I went through the same thing during my r/s and afterwards.  Unfortunately we become the trigger for our exes and that is the sad reality which means that no, they most likely could not be happy with us nor us with them as a result.  The perceived betrayal, slight, whatever painted us black would come up time and again.  I'm going to share with you a video which I wished I had seen so much sooner than I did.  It's How to help someone with BPD.  You may have already seen this at the top of the board in the featured videos and it served as a reminder to me that it is the right thing to do to focus on ourselves and find ways to move forwards.  I hope you find it helpful too.

Love and light x

[Mutt]

Hi Sky07,

I blame myself for saying I cannot support her, that I needed a break as I was too drained, I blame myself for invalidating her and telling her how she feels. I also feel like after saying I couldn't support her anymore, even if it was temporary, she felt I was no longer of any use and dropped me like trash... .It breaks my heart everyday... .

You mentioned that your T will sometimes show you both sides of the picture I might be repeating some stuff that’s already been said.

I like Skip’s metaphor for r/s’s I haven’t heard on that I liked more a r/s are thousands of transactions between two people. Your ex has her share of the r/s and some that is emotionally immature blame shifts it’s always somebody else’s fault.

Don’t beat yourself up you’re not a doctor how are supposed to identify a serious mental illness if you’re trained in that field? Speaking of training professionals have training to help interact and cope with mentally ill people they don’t do it 24/7/365 like we did we didn’t have a play book we relied on our knowledge and experience at that time and did our best.

I know that it’s incredibly hard when we can’t have our exes. My gf is a permanent resident in Canada and gay people are shamed in her country it’s not something that is open i can’t imagine what it would feel like to suppress a part of who you are because of a bigger whole like a society and not have support.

Is she the first person that you were openly gay with? It would feel like a huge loss for me and losing that community people that get you and you’re ostracized for who you are. You will fall in love with another person that won’t treat you badly like your ex did it’s not going to be a negative experience like your ex. Truth has a way of working itself out is there another part of the community that you’re ex is not a part of or does everyone know each other?

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Sky... .my love... .I love you enough to say you need some objectivity here.  I could not read your entire post because to be clear and honest (and saying this with love), when I read the 5 minute thing, and her setting her clock to it and then walking away without a word after 5 minutes was up... .THAT is when I expected you to stand up for yourself, and you didn't, and it ate me alive on the inside.
You cannot love anyone else until you love yourself first.  This is not healthy love... .and you deserve to insist on that for yourself, first and foremost. 
Please... .look at what you allow for yourself and just say no to it.  Noone, and I mean NOONE is worthy of my love if they do not have compassion and love in their heart, too. 

As to all the friends you've lost... .you know... .it seems like you need to talk to some of your friends.  There are 3 sides to every story... .yours, theirs and the objective truth. 
If you absolutely really can't "make up" with some of your friends where you are, do you know how many cities there are in every country?  Worst case scenario, you could move and reestablish yourself somewhere else... .and I said that, because at the end of the day, you really aren't ever truly stuck... .there are always options... .don't miss the forest for the few trees... .You just need a good hug and some objectivity ... .and to love you first and foremost, because you need your love !

HUGS from me to you.

[Sky07]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for replying.

Harley Quinn,

I've been doing the small steps that my T suggested to me but everything just hurts too much. I did something by myself as well, i joined a football to make some friends and so far, it's been going well. I make sure to go out when there are events as much as I can. I try so hard. I spoke to my T about my feelings and she is unsure about if it is ever going to go away because she says I feel a lot.

I know I shouldn't look at the blog... .I am trying to limit how much I look at it until I stop altogether. It's just hard, i keep going in there looking for some acknowledgement that she hurt me, that what she did was wrong.

Thank you for the video, it helped a bit... .I definitely needed a break from supporting her and her crying over simple things was just draining... .but she broke up with me right after and it feels like if only I had not said no to her, things would have been different...

Mutt,

I know I'm not a doctor... I only knew about anxiety and depression when we got together then she got diagnosed with BPD afterwards. I tried helping her with her anxiety and depression and she found me quite overbearing and said it wasn't my responsibility so I let it go... .so I didn't take her BPD seriously on my side, I left her to deal with it, I didn't research it and that was my biggest mistake. If I had researched it, I would have not gotten angry at her, I would have used the tools, things might have been different. I would have known that the relationship wouldn't be a 50/50. I was getting angry at her for asking me to change and do so much effort while not getting much back, I wanted an equal relationship. My expectations weren't been met so it turned into fights. I even took her mental illnesses into consideration and was asking for like a 40%, little did I know that was also too much for her. If I had known what exactly was BPD, I would have adjusted my expectations.

Yes, she was the first person I was openly gay with. It took me so long to actually introduce myself to the community here, I was always so scared. I took some courage to do in my last 2 years of university and I felt great, I was making friends with people just like me. A year later I met her and I fell for her at first sight. We became friends and she wasn't interested in me.

My T tells me that the community is bigger than what is at my university, that I should go out there. There is  big gay community in my football team so that helps but in terms of going anywhere else, we had so many mutual friends and I don't want to bump into them... .Gay spaces are usually safe spaces, and I feel like even stepping foot into them is wrong for me as an "abuser", that I'll be tainting it, that I'll be violating these people's safe space and I don't want to do that. I don't want to make people feel unsafe... .I feel like I don't belong anywhere anymore... .

LoveOnTheRock,

I know I should have stood up for myself... .but I had already begged on my knees before... .so I had nothing left to stand for... .I wasn't ready for the coldness and cruelty that she would throw at me in this breakup, I was left spinning, I was shaking throughout the whole thing... I loved myself, until she called me an "abuser". I was feeling great for the first time in my life before all this, I had graduated with honours, I got a job really quickly, I was working and earning good money, I was paying off my education loans, I got my permanent residency in a new country, I had a girlfriend, I was being able to slowly let go of my fears of being openly gay, I was working on that, I had a gay community that I could call my family away from home, my family that accepted me being gay.

I love her and trusted her so much that everything she ever said, i took it seriously. I have opened up to her so many times and told her about my own past, my own experiences and hurt... .I did everything to make her feel safe... .For her to say I'm "abusive" broke me into million of pieces. She even told me that she spoke about our issues to her dad and her dad said that maybe I'm like her mother and she agreed (she hates her mother, she was abused by her). To be compared to her mother, killed me. I have always been sad about how she looks for a mother figure in people, in her teachers, in her T... .because she didn't get love from her actual mother. We had planned to go for holidays to my home country (her, as my friend because my family doesn't know I'm gay) because I wanted to show her my home, get her to experience the food but most importantly, to experience my family, my grandmas, my aunts and my mom who are all very motherly to everyone. I wanted to give that to her. To be compared to her mother killed me... .

Now I don't even know if what she said is true... .because when I first found her blog, she was going on and on about how her dad is abusive because he took my side (i thought he said I was like her mum, her parents are divorced) and how after having been in an abusive relationship with me, she can now clearly see how her dad is abusive too. My T said she sees everything as abusive.

I shouldn't have begged, I shouldn't have sat there and said "I love you" endlessly as the timer went down... .I was totally blown away, I was shaking so bad... .I lost myself as she broke my heart... .Even as I write this right now, I cry so hard, I hug myself and cry so hard. I've been through a lot of things in my life, no one broke me like this.

~Sky

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Oh Sky:  !  What a DYNAMIC person you are.  I am going to jump ahead here and say that after all this passes, I wish I could be a fly on the wall to see where you end up, because you are an amazing person who is going to get far in life... .I don't know you, though I talk like I do... .but look at what you wrote back to me... .about who you are... .INCREDIBLE.  So, after all the crying and once recover takes place and you are moving forward again, in the mood to meet and greet... .I can only imagine who is going to "fit" in your life... .someone incredible, to be a mate to someone as incredible as you are... .just read the truth about who you are as if I had written that to you about who I am... .objectively speaking, you've got it going on, girl!

OK, so back to where you are today and what's going on.  I am so encouraged that you have such a great heart and such strong emotions... .I know they don't seem to be doing you a lot of good today, but they will.  As far as your girlfriend and some of the "typical" BPD stuff (I recognize some of it, because my 18yr old daughter has exhibited in her relationships some of the stuff you talk about).  First... .to be compared to her mother... .well of course she did.  Second... .to ACCUSE you of being abusive... .of course she did.  These are both the bad part of BPD.  They idealize you when all is great... .going overboard with how wonderful you are... .then, they switch to the demoralization side of BPD... .with you are the worse person in the world.  This is classic BPD, and unfortunately, there is no inbetween.  You either are the most amazing person who ever lived or you are the devil himself... .it's classic BPD... .so, ... .honey, consider the source here and you have to be the one with the healthy processor (brain).  You know you weren't like her mother to her.  You know you didn't abuse her.  She has BPD and her brain doesn't exactly work right... .so, stop acting or treating her words as though they came from an objective person giving you objective feedback about how she felt in the relationship.  Continuing to do so is going to continue to be demoralizing to you... .and for no REASONABLE reason... .the demoralization is not reasonable... .but it hurts us all when it happens... .I totally get it.  My daughter has hurt me like a knife cuts sometimes... .but I am beginning now to remember that she is living the BPD... .and they just do that... .idealize then demoralize with no inbetween... .and NO, that's not normal or usual... .it isn't... .so ok... .I have to be the healthy one and not overreact to this stuff.

I've had some conversations with the boys my daughter has dated and she's done some outlandish stuff that they try to come to terms with... .such as if one hurt her feelings, she went and slept with another guy... .she thought it was a perfectly reasonable reaction to his potentially not caring enough about her... .of course everyone else was like... .UH, WHAT? !  I remember telling this last guy that he knew what he was dealing with and if he insisted on staying because he loved her so much, he was going to have to accept some unacceptable stuff, because it was going to happen.  He kept trying to hold her to "normal" standards and then when she went out and did things or said things that were so extreme, he was trying to make out like she knew better... .it's not about her knowing better... .it's about how her brain works when it starts working overtime... .and her emotions are running high... .for her, it's like having 90 degree burns... .it's not "a little upset" for her... .it's more like nuclear meltdowns over little stuff sometimes... .I told him if he wanted predictable and always reasonable and understandable, then he needed to get a girl who could be relied upon for such, and that wasn't our BPD daughter... .She's amazing, true... .but she can be amazingly difficult, too... .true.

Back to you... .the football thing sounds GREAT !  Also, you can find some guys to hang out with in sports bars to watch sports if that's your thing.  You dont HAVE TO be around gay people only, and if you like sports, that's one really cool thing about males, is most males can just hang with other males and do stuff like watch football... .so... .maybe you can drop in and have a drink and good conversation with the fellas sometimes, too?  I am just thinking out loud here... .but hoping you won't spend too much time by yourself during this emotional distress... .get out and get some air anyway and anywhere that is healthy... .it's good for you, and you're worth it !   
Tomorrow is Sunday and the sports bars will be crawling with enthusiasts... .perfect time to make some new friends... .!

About how you were blown away with the whole "timer" incident... .I can feel your emotions as you write about them and my heart just cries with you.  I have seen my daughter be completely ice cold before... .it's a defensive mechanism she has and I sometimes wonder if she feels as she acts... .because if she does, that's akin to sociopath, and it scares me.  I've seen this shrewd stuff from her before and I know what you're talking about.  I am SO SORRY you had to experience that, and as if break ups weren't hard enough, to get no closure by having an open and honest discussion about what caused the breakdown makes it all that much more difficult.  I suppose this leaves you in a place where you'll have to do closure on your own.  I also suggest (still) that you consider reaching out to some or a few in the gay community you two shared.  I am sure you had a friend or two in there that were "for you" and won't just take her side... .I say I'm sure... .I hope this is the case anyway, Sky07... .I do know that in the gay community, sometimes, people can be so caddy and pick sides... .but certainly it would be unfair to say or think that EVERYONE in the group is like that... .so maybe you do have a friend or two out there that you can talk to?  There may be some, who like me, don't care for the way you were or are being treated!  BPD makes things really ugly sometimes... .and sure... .the person with it can't help it... .but it still leaves people like you with a whole set of upset due to cruelty you experience... .and you may be able to talk to a friend or two from your group to just talk about how hurtful it all is or has been.  That said, even if you don't... .that's why you're here and we're here for you!  (Virtual hugs like crazy are flying around right now!).

Get some sunshine today.  Get some air today... .Go to a shelter and pet a puppy... .you're worth it!  LoTR!

[Sky07]

Hi LoveOnTheRocks,

My ex is diagnosed BPD, and when she was diagnosed with it during our relationship, she did a lot of research but not once did she tell me how BPD affects relationships? Why? How is it that she knows she has BPD yet doesn't stop to question her delusions and distortions? She is already going to therapy and I left it at that, I knew nothing more. If I had known that she needed more therapy or even DBT, I would have put my money into it to help. I love her so much... .

Right now, I feel like a juicebox that someone sucked all the juice out off and threw the box in the trashcan. I was working so hard on giving her what she wanted, doing the changes that she wanted, I just needed time, it's not easy to change. Everytime we would spend a great weekend together, then during the week, she'd complain about something and ask for changes. I have been supporting her all this time, I just needed a break, to re-energise myself... .Why did she throw me away like trash? There is a difference between being a 3rd degree burn victim and being a 3rd degree burn victim that sets everyone else on fire... .

Some of our friends didn't want to choose sides, they wanted to be friends with both of us but she wouldn't be friends with someone that would talk to her "abuser" so the friends had to pick a side... .and since I'm the "abuser", it wasn't my side.

As for the football, I'm a woman and I play in a women's team, haha. They are all nice friends and we do spend time together, it's the only group of friends I have right now. In there, I have one or two friends who I can talk to... .it's just hard to explain BPD... .and it feels wrong to say anything bad about my ex to others... .I don't want to demonise her like she did with me.

~ Sky

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi Sky!

Sorry I haven't responded.  I went out of town for work and am just getting settled back into my desk and so forth. 

I know you're a woman, but when you mentioned football, made me think of my husband and how he is with guys... .like he can go to a sports bar and you'de swear these total stranger guys he meets are best friends from way back when, because all it takes for these men to "mesh" is football in common.  So, when you mentioned liking football, I thought this might be a good way for you to have some company sometimes... .anyway, I get it and was only thinking out loud here.

My daughter is dx. BPD, but refuses even to "take" that diagnosis.  She hangs on every word of every therapist who would question that dx.  I know this because she was long term with 2 different docs who both said BPD, but all it took for that dx to go away was seeing another for a session or two... .another who questioned it being BPD. 
I mention that to say my daughter goes out of her way not to "own" anything about her BPD.  She even likes to accuse that it's others... .what they do, what they don't do... .that creates the problems.  Of course, all of us "Others" in my daughter's life are all going... .HUH?  Seriously?  The BPD causes huge issues in various ways, but this is her normal... .its just who she is is what my daughter concludes... .but the rest of us are all quite aware that her normal is very far from "regular normal."  There are a lot of things that come up with my daughter that don't come up with the rest of us.  I don't know if my daughter will ever own her own stuff... .even with a dx or with extreme medications... .and the need for therapy... .I see her as a ball of confusion a lot of the time (I dont mean this in a negative way... .but her mind is honestly all over the place and sometimes her reasoning is really strange to me and my husband)... .
She just got a new job today.  She knew she needed her social security card, but did she take it with her? No... .she did the same thing she did the last two jobs she got... .she arrived at the new job, and when asked for it, she called me to have me email the copy I have to her.  I can almost see her organizing this as the way to do it well before arriving at the new job this morning.  She just rearranges things the way she wants to and everyone else has to work with it.  If we say anything, there will be hell to pay, because she doesnt like to be questioned and she likes to do things the way she decides she wants to... .and anyone who doesn't like this is subject to wrath for having something to say about it.  This is textbook my daughter... .and it's not the normal way we all do things... .it just isn't.  We should all handle our own stuff... .it's just with her, she handles it in different ways and if questioned about it, gets volatile... .no reason to it... .just is.

I might have missed something, but I haven't learned why you are the "abuser."  What is your ex talking about?   I really want to explore this "abuser" thing, because it is being used to interfere with your ability to maintain relationships with mutual friends, which is a big deal... .help me understand more, if you want, Sky... .

[once removed]

hi Sky07,

My ex is diagnosed BPD, and when she was diagnosed with it during our relationship, she did a lot of research but not once did she tell me how BPD affects relationships? Why?

think of it this way. we all have our issues/limitations in relationships, but we tend to lead with our best foot forward, rather than focusing on the former.

Some of our friends didn't want to choose sides, they wanted to be friends with both of us but she wouldn't be friends with someone that would talk to her "abuser" so the friends had to pick a side... .and since I'm the "abuser", it wasn't my side.

this is one of the hardest aspects of breaking up. mutual friends, inevitably, choose sides, and it compounds the loss and feelings of rejection. i lost some mutual friends, and on top of that, i reached out to old friends that id let go by the wayside, and they had already moved on. sometimes it can be bigger than that, we lose our entire sense of community.

i think joining a football league is a good start in rebuilding that community. joining a sports team essentially forces all parties to build a level of trust. i can understand at the same time, that every move is painful. getting a sense of routine and normalcy is so important though; time doesnt heal necessarily, but it does lessen the immediacy/intensity of the pain, and the sense of routine and normalcy can help kind of fast forward that process.

has it helped?

[Sky07]

Hi LoveOnTheRocks,

This is going to be a long read, I'm sorry for that but things are just too complicated.

It must be really hard for your daughter to be dxed and still not accepting of the diagnosis. My ex was dxed about 1 month into our relationship. Personally, I didn't really research BPD back then when she told me about it. Before, when we were just friends, she told me she has anxiety and depression and I did some research on it to know more and be a better friend and I started caretaking, in a sense. She is 6 years younger than me and was failing uni. I helped her do her assignments. She is a perfectionist in a sense, so she would get so much anxiety over it that she wouldn't be able to come up with what to write for her assignments and wouldn't even start it. Obviously, not submitting an assignment doesn't even give you a chance of passing at all... so I started to help. I didn't do her subject and had graduated myself, so I would act like a dumb idiot and ask her to explain to me what the topic of her assignment was as it was all unknown to me. She would launch into explanations, in-depth discussions etc and then when she was done explaining, I would be like "see, you know your stuff, all we need is to get it on paper". It worked most times but sometimes she couldn't even get herself to write anything... .since she explained it to me, in her 2 last assignments, I ended up managing to type most of it for her. I believe it was that period where she started seriously liking me because I was "caring" for her and caring about her depression and anxiety.

Note, at that point, I had been interested in her for nearly a year already and she wasn't interested in me, she even said once to a friend "I wouldn't date Sky" and only when the friend said "Ouch" as I was in the vicinity that she looked at me and said "no offence" and it hurt but I said "non taken".

She then started flirting with me, after having asked me if I still liked her and i said "I do but I am not expecting anything out of it, I got over it". I liked her a lot... .I would even say I loved her already because even before that, I was walking home with tears in my eyes over my unrequited love so many times. As she flirted, she was "I want to give this a try" and then would say "I just want to be friends" the next day. It kept going like that for a bit and I accepted the push/pull because I thought she was just not sure and I was giving her all the time and space to decide. She then decided to be with me and I was the happiest person alive.

During our friendship, there was so many times, she would make fun of me, of my clothes, my hair and I would always feel a bit of a sting but I accepted it as jokes and let it be. I realised that it was just her personality, she has a bit of a mean and sharp side to her. When we got together, I decided to accept her as she is so instead of saying, don't make mean jokes, I accepted it as banter between us and I started saying things back. I would comment on her hair etc and for me, it was just comments and jokes, nothing big.

As our relationship progressed, I tried to help her about her anxiety and depression but she found it overbearing. She was a priority in my life and she didn't/couldn't prioritise me so she told me that it was unhealthy and she couldn't do it. It was hard to hear so I started letting her deal with her mental illnesses on her own, which is why I didn't bother research BPD at all when she got dxed.

I went through a traumatic experience being gay in my home country and it has affected me a lot so I do a lot of self-policing even if it is all legal here. I live in a sharehouse with housemates and the rules based on the landlord is you are not supposed to have guests stay over and if you do, you need to tell the landlord and it cannot be a usual thing but she was staying over at mine every weekend. Because of that, I decided to come out to my housemates, you know... because she was around so much, using the house facilities and what not (but didn't tell the landlord). When I told all of my housemates that she was my girlfriend, some said "ok", some said nothing and afterwards when I got in my home, it was like close to a panic for me (based on my traumatic experience being gay) and now I was worried because they all come from a similar cultural background as mine (which is not accepting) so I was worried what if they don't want her to come in the house anymore, what if they told the landlord. Then one day, my girlfriend was around and she was gonna step outside of my room, she was wearing a tank top and no bra underneath. Now, it is no big deal in this country but I told her to cover up, wear a jacket or something because I was worried my housemates, if any was homophobic, would not be okay with it and it might become an issue where they complain to my landlord so I asked her to "please, can you wear a jacket?" and she got annoyed at me and asked "why?" and I said "I just came out to them so please, just put something on". She did and I thought that was it. The incident happened again a second time. I was worried because there was a lot of consequences possible if my landlord knew (I don't know if he is homophobic and what not). After that, she has never let it go, she found me to be very controlling. Despite me not saying anything on what she wears if we were anywhere but in my house.

Another thing that I spoke to my T about is the fact that I said "you never listen to me" to her a few times before. Once she made a comment on the food that I prepared for her being a bit bland and I took it quite hard (i'm sensitive about my cooking) and I told her how to fix it and she didn't want to do it. I know I should have just let her make her own choice but even if I left her to deal with it whichever way she wanted, I said "you never listen to me" and that stuck to her brain forever.

One other time, I was legit joking with her as she did a stupid thing and I told you "you are stupid" with a smile. She was like "no, I'm not" in a good tone and I said "you know it's true"... .It wasn't really what I wanted to say... I do this joke with my family in my own language a lot and the translation messed it up, what I meant to say was "but you do stupid things sometimes". Anyway she took it really bad and I apologised and told her that I thought of her as very intelligent, that's why I ask her to explain all these awesome stuff to me because she knows so much.

All these incidents, she got angry at me and I did something about it. Telling her what to wear = I decided to shut up and never do it again, calling her stupid = I apologised, saying "you never listen to me" = I told her I don't realise when I say it and will do my best to stop... But the issues kept on coming and coming... .if we have a fight, she'll bring back those incidents.

She started putting boundaries, saying "no comments on my hair, body or clothes" and I was baffled because she was still commenting on those stuff about me. She still made fun of my hair etc. So I didn't take the boundary seriously. I still ended up saying stuff.

In our last fight, I was very sick and took the day off work. She had a session with her T and she cried throughout and the topic they discussed is how she is having difficulty crying like she used to. She brought that up with me, saying she doesn't feel safe with her to cry like she used to anymore. That I was not accepting of her sadness. I told her that I wasn't because she is always sad and I always try to support her but I need happy times because I feel so drained and depressed. I told her I cannot support her all the time and she should seek support from her friends as well. She asked "how much can you support me? Is every 2 weeks ok?" and I said "yes". I then started to explain to her how I felt and compare it to her feelings and that started the fight because it was invalidating and I was telling her how to feel and she asked me not to tell her "how to feel". I made a mistake there but I didn't notice it, I got annoyed that she wasn't hearing how tired I was. The fight escalated. She told me that I didn't understand what she felt as BPD makes her feel high-highs and low-lows (which was the opposite of what I was telling her she felt. I had been trying to explain in terms of depression, I forgot she had BPD). She then asked me to come to a BPD Seminar with her and speak to her T. I said I would have done it before but right now, I'm totally drained and tired. She said ok, that the offer was still on the table when I was ready (This is something that hurt her, that I refused to go to the Seminar and see her T. To be fair, it annoyed me because before, I was very much involved and wanting to get info from her T on how to help her but she never invited me to her T and then later said it was not my responsibility. I felt like she indirectly said I was overbearing)

She was supposed to come to my place and get me some medicine along the way but she cancelled at the last minute saying she is sick (a very recurrent thing in our relationship = cancelling plans, specially at last minute). This escalated the fight even more. And we started fighting about everything at the same time, I was sick and throwing up but seemed like she didn't care. At some point I told her that I was tired of ramming myself into the wall that is her and was telling her how it was all affecting me and she interrupted, telling me not to insult her. I told her that I didn't insult her, all I said was she was a "wall" (I've been called worse in my life so I still don't get how this is insulting) and then we got thrown off tangent where she explained to me that I didn't say that her behaviours were like a wall but I said she was a wall and it is a personal attack. I told her I didn't get it and that she was changing subject and not listening to what I had to say and she replied that it was Conflict Resolution 101 and even sent me a link. I got pissed at that point and said "if you are going to send me links, I'm out of here."

Anyway long story, short, the fight kept going. I spent a horrible night with massive chest pains which I needed meds for... .she told me she'd get them for me the next day. The next day, she came to see me, gave me the meds, accompanied me to the doctors and when we got back home, she broke up with me. I said why and she said I am emotionally abusive. I tried to defend myself and she got agitated and said "I knew this would happen" so I tried to calm things down and said ok, maybe tell me how I am abusive as it could mean anything and she pulled out her phone and went on a website about abuse and started listing out the points to me. I still tried to defend myself but as we all know, it didn't work. I told her ok, I'll go to therapy, to just give me a chance. She accepted and we were all good. Then 2 days later, I went to the doctors again and we were supposed to meet because I wanted to discuss the logistics of our relationship and going to the T with her and she cancelled saying she was feeling dread meeting me... So I asked her what she wanted and she wanted no messages, no talking, no meeting for the whole day and I said ok. She came by and broke up with me the next day, that's when I begged her on my knees and she gave me 5 minutes on a timer before walking out of my life. When I asked her why, she even said that "this whole relationship started on abuse" and for me I was like "?", from how I remember it, the relationship started on me helping her in assignments, staying strong through her push and pull and giving her all the time in the world to decide on what she wanted.

So you see all the above, it is not like I didn't do anything, that I didn't make mistakes, that I didn't say comments about her that could be perceived as mean, that I didn't tell her what to wear and what not (something outlined as abusive in nearly every abuse website out there)... .It broke me... .Through most of my teen, I have been in fights with boys and when I turned 18, I decided to leave all that behind, no more physical violence and I have told her about my childhood so many times. I wanted to not hurt anyone ever, and despite only having fights with boys, I told myself, no matter how angry I get, I will never lay a finger on my partner and I also told her that. I didn't want to be physically abusive so I was so good in that, that I was totally caught off-guard about emotional abuse. I didn't even realise there was such a thing. I was totally devastated. We were best friends for a year before we got together, along with another friend. It was the 3 of us, they were my family away from home, along with the community here. Our friend, K, wanted to stay friends with both of us but my ex said she wouldn't be friends with K if she was friends with me so K had to pick a side and no one picks the "abuser". Same with my community, it is a safe space and I'm not allowed to step in there anymore because I'm an "abuser". I lost so many friends.

I had no one to turn to, I was alone again by myself in a country, a community I worked so hard to belong into, despite my traumatic experiences before. It was so hard to come out of my shell due to those experiences and I did and I was happy, now I'm all alone again.
K, before she had to pick a side, told me of a T that she knew and I booked a session with that T and I've been with her since then. It's been 22 sessions. K also met me for one last time to hear my story and told me "Ex was with A while you were away (Before we got together, I was travelling for 4 months) and then you came back and she was with you within 2 months. It was too fast. I also believe that the abuse was from both sides".

I went to therapy and pretty much begged my T to find out what is wrong with me, why I got angry at my ex so fast for cancelling etc, that maybe I had BPD, that I was abusive. We went through every scenario I told you above and rehashed everything to death and my T still stands on her opinion that she doesn't believe I am abusive. She gave me a PAI test to do to see my level of borderline traits, aggresivity (to check for physical, verbal abuse) and dominance (to see how controlling I am) and I don't even hit any high scores in any of it. Thing is, I'm still an abuser in my ex's eyes, my friends' eyes and it kills me every single day.

~Sky

[Sky07]

Once Removed,

Thank you for your reply. I was already in a small social soccer team before the breakup and was thinking about joining a bigger league team. I spoke about it to my ex and she told me that it'd be too tiring and I agreed.

As soon as she broke up with me, I joined the bigger league team because I knew if I didn't, I'd rot at home and I was ok with tiring myself to the max so that my brain would stop thinking. It was a good decision, I met a lot of people and also made new friends. It's not really close friends but I'll take what I can get.

But even that doesn't help in the sense that I feel like I shouldn't be around these good people because I am an "abuser". This makes me keep a distance even when I'm surrounded by those people

~Sky

[once removed]

As soon as she broke up with me, I joined the bigger league team because I knew if I didn't, I'd rot at home and I was ok with tiring myself to the max so that my brain would stop thinking.

theres a certain aspect of doing those things we didnt feel like we had the space to do during the relationship that can be pretty liberating doing them after. my ex could be pretty jealous, and while i wouldnt say it would have been the healthiest approach to go seeking love in my hurt, i reached out to the opposite sex a lot, and slowly but surely quit walking on those eggshells, thinking/worrying about how she might react and i think that was a good thing.

I feel like I shouldn't be around these good people because I am an "abuser".

so, question: does anyone else seem to think youre an "abuser"?

[Harri]

Hi Sky.  You have lost so much.  I am glad you are reaching out and making new friends.  That will help as will continuing with your T.  I can see where being told you are abusive is very painful and can make you question everything too.  It is a horrible feeling. 

But even that doesn't help in the sense that I feel like I shouldn't be around these good people because I am an "abuser". This makes me keep a distance even when I'm surrounded by those people

I don't know if you were abusive or not.  I think I would trust what my T tells me though and they do not think you are abusive.  Remember, pwBPD are easily invalidated and are highly sensitive.  I am not saying that to make excuses but to point out that you can't let a disordered person define you.  As for the other people in that group, people will take sides as once removed said.  That too should not be used to define you.

[Mindfried]

Seems to me like your friends are not real friends anyway. Just people you knew. They did you a favor since they should their true colors. As for the relationship, it sucks. It is truly painful. The best advice is it is going to take time and the emotional pain will not go away over night. The best time to have faith in yourself is when no one else does. You need a major american city. They are more accepting to your lifestyle. NYC or San Francisco are calling your name.

[Sky07]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for replying.

so, question: does anyone else seem to think youre an "abuser"?

Once Removed, for the people that know my ex, yes I am. For my own friends, they don't know my story. I only have 2 friends that I told my story to, who say I'm not abusive. I've stopped telling my story to friends... .i did with one, in a moment of weakness when the breakup was recent, she was supportive but later unfriended me and stopped replying to my messages.

Harri, I'm slowly trying to accept what my T said. I shift around so much. I feel like it's my fault bcz I'm abusive and I hurt bcz I lost her due to that, then my T tells me I'm not abusive (she says she feels like a broken record for repeating so much) and tells me that my ex has twisted reality and she sees me through the lens of abuse, so the relationship would have ended at some point anyway, that it would have depended on how much I can handle because my ex is so emotionally labile, I would have crashed at some point... .then I start accepting I'm not abusive and it makes me feel betrayed, like 'why accuse me falsely?' and the fact, I lost them and friends due to it, it feels like I got sent to jail but I'm innocent. Then I hurt bcz I want justice, to right the wrongs, to show her reality and get her to realise her distortions... .but I can't... .then I doubt myself again, that I can't maybe bcz it's my reality which is distorted and maybe it's true that I am abusive... .then the circle restarts... .

Mindfried, people are accepting here but my past trauma keeps me self-policing myself and it's hard work to stop that. I was slowly stopping as I had friends and my ex here, I felt more accepted but in some cases, I am more self-preserving, it's about my safety. Now that I've lost my friends and my ex, I've gone back to my shell a bit. I was getting more open as I trusted my surroundings and the people more but now I feel I got backstabbed by the very people I trusted and let in.

~ Sky

[once removed]

Once Removed, for the people that know my ex, yes I am. For my own friends, they don't know my story. I only have 2 friends that I told my story to, who say I'm not abusive.

okay. so the people currently in your life dont think youre an abuser. your therapist doesnt think youre an abuser. the friends who know your story dont think youre an abuser.

theres a reason that its not sinking in for you, i suspect, and its not necessarily because you are an abuser, but because the words/accusation touched a nerve and/or fear deep somewhere inside you that not only is hurtful to hear because a loved one said it, but because it connects with/threatens how you do or very much dont want to see yourself (maybe both), in a way that is very hard to shake.

the key to detaching from that wound, i would suggest, is to find the source of it.

[Sky07]

theres a reason that its not sinking in for you, i suspect, and its not necessarily because you are an abuser, but because the words/accusation touched a nerve and/or fear deep somewhere inside you that not only is hurtful to hear because a loved one said it, but because it connects with/threatens how you do or very much dont want to see yourself (maybe both), in a way that is very hard to shake.

the key to detaching from that wound, i would suggest, is to find the source of it.

Trust me Once Removed , I thought about that too, dug very deep with my T, addressed everything that came up. I opened every door of my past, to the point where my T got exasperated at me for "trying to find past incidents to mold to my ex's words and get her (the T) to say 'yes you are abusive, Sky' ".

Now all that's left and hurts is I cannot get my ex and my friends to see the truth. It's like having evidence of your innocence but knowing no one will look at it or acknowledge it and going to jail still, on life sentence. This injustice, this sense of unreal that clouds my ex and friends bothers me. It makes me feel like if only I can show them that the sky is blue then everything would right itself, they will see they made a mistake... .but no one can show anything to people who have their eyes closed... .Then I think, the truth comes out at some point, you don't have to do anything... .then I remember she has BPD and it's a lost cause... .then I think, she's dxed and going to therapy but I realise that it's not working and 10 sessions a year is not enough... .I see no end... .feels like the world is upside down and all the laws of Physics stopped working.

~ Sky

[Harri]

Hi Sky.  I have felt a lot of what you describe here, not with an ex so much as with my family.  I understand your feelings and especially the part about wanting to show these people the truth.  I don't know where you hurt is coming from, but what once removed said is very accurate.  The thing is, you can't really force awareness.   An answer may not come soon or even ever.  The good news is that you can still work on this. 

When I say work on this, I don't mean getting your ex to see who you really are but to get *you* to be okay and feel strong in who you are.  To know that others can see you however they see you and it does not have to define you or rule you.  You do not have to prove yourself to anyone.

Your ex is who she is, with her own thoughts and opinions and filters and biases'.  She has a right to all that.  You have a right to be you.  She has a right to be wrong about you.     Let her be wrong.  Focus on you.  I think that might be what your T is trying to get you to see. 

[Sky07]

But it hurts, Harri after giving my all, going above and beyond. It just hurts.

I feel used... .When I found her anonymous blog, the words on there ripped me apart... .and I have them etched in my mind. Even before our relationship, she wrote about how she usually idealises her crushes but it's not the case with me, she doesn't feel the passion, she doesn't idealise me, it feels wrong, she feels sick, like it's forced love. That she cannot imagine a future with me, being married to me, blah blah.

Why ask me out then? Why did she say she loved me? Why talk about wanting to marry me? We could have just stayed friends. All this wouldn't have happened then... .I'd still have my life, my community, my friends.

She has the right to be wrong about me... .She doesn't have the right to do what she did to me, play with my feelings, break me and alienate my friends from me... .

~ Sky

[Cromwell]

Hi Sky

How likely is it that she covered her tracks that you wouldnt stumble across this 'anonymous' blog?

Just suggesting that there seems like a bit of manipulation going on from how I see it; the 5 minutes to respond countdown timer, now a blog that is publicly accessible, is there any chance that these are a true reflection of how she feels, or just well scripted way of knowing how to hurt you.

From my own experience, these type of events appeared very subtle on the face of it but they were designed for impact. They etched into the mind, were disturbing as much as upsetting - but it was hard for me at the state of mind I was in to draw them together as being crafted to be intentionally hurtful, rather than genuine self expressions.

[Harri]

   I know it hurts and it is not fair at all.  Finding what she wrote on her blog would, I imagine, feel like a bigger betrayal in some ways. 

Are you still visiting her blog and reading it?  I know it is hard once the words are in your mind, but I don't think re-reading it, if you are, is a good idea.  It will just make the hurt stay front and  center.  So if you are reading it stop and let time work its dulling magic.

I don't know why she chose to do the things she did.  I think learning about the behaviors of a person with BPD can help depersonalize some of the actions that hurt so badly, at least to a certain extent, so when you feel like it, read some of the articles we have here on BPD behaviors.  In the meantime, keep reaching out and posting.  Building a support network is important as is seeing you are not alone so I am glad you are here.  Keep reaching out.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

Hi Sky07:  Sorry again, for taking days to reply, but we should expect this of me.  I am going through hurt and anxiety over my daughter's diagnosis, and I just don't have a positive attitude every day... .some days I just don't want to deal with the BPD stuff and have a bad attitude about BPD stuff or the fact that it has to be a part of my life.  On those days, I try to focus on other stuff or at least don't have enough in me to pour out into others... .I think I have heard before that we are like sponges, some days we take it in to fill up, on others, we can pour it out, rinse, repeat, .

OK, first... .and I HAVE to say this... .you ARE NOT an abuser.  I read that very long story you told (thanks for all that information, it was helpful! and probably good for you to get it out on paper too)... .So, someone else... .ME... .has given you an opinion that how you acted/reacted cannot, at all, be construed as abuse.  ALL human beings get into conflict with others and we say things we regret (and sometimes we don't regret being so brutally honest, and that's ok, too!).  BUT... .with the specifics of what happened in your discussions with your romantic interest (and I say that because romantic relationships are the most loaded with feelings of all relationship kinds), stuff gets said... .and if it's not all flowers, puppies, rainbows and lipops, well then, it's more likely that it's HONEST communication, and that is a good thing.  What we all here know is not such a good thing is the impracticality sometimes of the person with BPD in their expectations and understandings of what we say.  I am not criticizing by aknowledging... .it is what it is.  Usually, it has been my experience, that when I am just myself and honest with the two persons in my life that had BPD, they got very abusive... .sorry, it's true and it's a fact... .I used to take responsibility for somehow causing the problem and tried all sorts of things to change it... .now, I just accept, more than anything, that it just is what it is. 

A couple other things that come to my mind:
First, my daughter's x did all her homework stuff, too... .or a good bit of it.  My DD did the same with her x as yours did with you.  I used to appreciate that he helped my daughter, and he did... .to get it done, to stay on task, to get through the class... .so, and I would say the same to you... .you are very kind... .and were so good to your x. 

I wish I could say that my daughter had the "proper appreciation" for what her x gave to her in terms of support and love and the list goes on and on what he gave to her, but she was and still is very "flip"... .More recently, I've had to help another of my daughter's now X's understand that she actually and for real has a mental illness and applying "regular rules" to how she thinks will only frustrate him more if he keeps doing it.  (In this guy's case, he wasn't showing her enough attention in her opinion, so she ran out and cheated on him for retalliation... .in her mind, she did a good thing, because this wasn't with someone she necessarily cared for, but she felt like if this guy wasn't going to give her the love and attention she deserved, she would let someone else do it, because she felt this other "rather stranger" was showing her attention that her current BF was).  When her boyfriend found out, he was devastated, (as would be really anyone), but she felt like, because she explained her reasons and further had no "current love interest in the other guy" her BF would learn from the "lesson she taught him" and now give her the attention she wanted... .OR ELSE... .rather unusual way of handling things.  Of course, they talked through all of this, but the skewed thinking is not something my daughter ever took responsibility for... .she was wrong for cheating just like he was wrong for neglecting her is her thinking... .both are wrongs... .not one worse than the other... .just tit for tat... .
the rest of the world would likely say cheating was the cardinal sin in a relationship, but to my BPDD, she was no more wrong than her bf.  So, her boyfriend had a really hard time with her "reasoning" and I told him over and over again... .this is who she is, and if you are going to stay with her, you are going to have to grow a rather unusually thick skin to deal with it... .she has BPD, it is a mental illness... .and you will see unusual things that aren't called what they really are to the rest of us... .her brain is wired as it is, and it's not the usual here. 

Sky, I want to keep going, but something has come up and I need to close for now.  I have more to say to you.  Hang in there!
LoTR

[LoveOnTheRocks]

OK, I only have a little time, but I really wanted to finish my thought:
At Christmas, when my daughter was 2, 3, 4, 5... .and so forth, every year, nomatter how many wonderful presents she got (and she got MANY over the years), she did not display any emotions, or at the time, her emotions were EXTREME subdued.  This used to trouble me every year, because I am used to what I think is "normal," which is when a kid gets a gift, they go over the top screaming, hopping around, etc.  Of course there were other things about my child that told me there were huge issues, but this one broke my particular heart, because I loved my little darling and wanted, as her mother, to make her shout with joy.  My husband did, too.
As the years passed, on this particular issue, I really came to understand that for her reasons, she treaded lightly with this gifts to her thing.  I could see the "conflict" going on in her head (maybe it was conflict, maybe it wasnt, but in any case it wasnt what we expected, which took me aback), but as a mother looking at a child, I knew there were no "intentional" things going on, and that my daughter's way and emotional responses were sincere, albeit different from everyone else. 
The reason I mention this is that I know as a mother that from even the beginning, she had ways of thinking that changed the dynamics of things, sometimes in big ways, and that I had to come to acceptance of that.  I also knew that it would and it has affected various things in our life.
Now to why I mention this to you.  First, Sky, it's hard enough in relationships to communicate, because emotions are there, but even double hard when "normal" lines of communication don't work properly in the relationship, even if both parties are trying in their ability and perspective ways.  So, there is that.
What really bothers me in your posts is that you aren't defending yourself about this abuse thing.  It's NOT a label I accept for you or accept when I see you putting it on yourself, because I know enough about my daughter's relationships with her Xs... .and me... .and how things can go, and how she can see things and throw labels out there (mine has told me for years that I am pure evil... .is that your impression of me? )  On the other hand, when things happen with my daughter, she brings the heaviest to me and my mother... .if the load gets too much, she does feel she can trust me, deep down, so how do we mix that with me not ever having loved her and being pure evil?  The same label gets tossed around enough, I can see, especially in a romantic relationship where one might question, ESPECIALLY if they are still being rejected.  This is why I have to bring this to your attention in a most emphatic way, because if the shoes aren't fitting, I must insist you don't wear them, or you will get blisters and corns from them... .
You were the strong one, whether you knew it or not... .read yourself in your post to me (the one you called the long one).  You saw so much and constantly did what you could... .and none of the time that you did unto her the same as she was doing unto you did you believe it to be anything more than "sporting around" which we all do in our relationships... .just banter, if you will.

Please tell me you will own the fact that while you may not have said and done everything "the right way every time" that you have conviction and can be clear with others that you absolutely were not abusive or the abuser.  You must refuse that label that has been put on you and defend Sky07 with your mutual friends.  Those who will listen will exist and those who prefer a drama wont... .and it's all ok, meet your friends and meet the drama queens in the world... .but, I wish you would be clear about this with the people YOU care about, because it's only fair to you that in your truth, you defend yourself where you need to be defended... .you deserve that, Sky07.

Sorry if I am talking to you like a mum... .for some reason, I just read what you write, and you are SO thoughtful, caring, and introspective... .that I want to really put thought, caring and introspection into our discussions.

[H2H]

I'm so sorry, Sky. My husband also called me abusive. I did yell at him when he raged at me. One time when he was seeming more reasonable, I asked him what I'd done to abuse him. He said I'd sworn at him. I did. I wasn't proud of it, and I apologized for it. What he didn't see was that he'd been raging at me for quite a while before I swore at him. I asked if I'd ever sworn at him when he was not raging at me. That was such a strange thought to him, but he said no, I hadn't.

His rages were so sudden, so unexpected. I've decided they were in response to something he was hearing inside himself, but projected onto me. They were things I never said, never even thought or felt. But to him they were real. I loved him so much, I never thought of him as worthless or disgusting, but he felt that toward himself, no matter how much I loved and supported him.

I read somewhere that people with BPD or BPD traits experience reality as a broken line, rather than the solid line most of us have. And during those breaks, they don't see clearly, their emotions take over, and the feelings are so strong and so real to them, they are not in the same reality others are. That makes sense to me. I think when my husband struck out at me, he was responding to that inner reality, not to me. But it's taken me time to figure that out, and it still hurts so much.

When you love somebody so much, and try to share your true self with them, and what they see is someone trying to hurt them, it is heartbreaking. When they turn it around and accuse you of what they’re doing to you, it’s agonizing. When they tell lies about you to others, I don’t even have a word for how much that hurts.

I know I’ve tried to make sense of it by looking really hard at what I’ve done, trying to find something I could change. I thought that if I could just come up with the right words to reach him, if I could just love him past his pain, I could help him, and help heal the relationship. I have done things that weren’t right, like swearing at him. But that was not abuse.  I didn’t know that by reaching out to him, I was actually scaring him more. I wanted the intimacy and love we used to have. I didn’t know that was so scary to him that he had to push me away any way he could.

I couldn’t help him. He hurts so much inside. That doesn’t mean he’s right in accusing me of being abusive. I don’t think you are an abuser either. But boy, do I understand how much it hurts, and how confusing it is, and how it makes a person doubt themselves.

LoveOnTheRocks, thank you so much. They've helped me too. I'm a in my 60's now, but I appreciated your motherly words.

[Sky07]

Hello everyone, thank you so so much for replying.

Cromwell, the posts that I have been mentioning from the anonymous blog are dated before we got together as a couple. Plus she only mentioned this place once throughout our relationship. It was only when I revisited our old messages that I remembered the app she mentioned and with lots of searching, I only ended up finding her because what she was posting then correlated to our breakup (so many posts about me being abusive, it hurt me so much) but it wasn't what broke me, it was when I scrolled to the time where we got together, which in my memory was amazing and beautiful and to see her posts saying totally the opposite, that's she doesn't feel it, she is having doubts, she cannot see herself marrying me, that the love feels forced, that ripped me in pieces... .I feel like what I lived was an imagination of mine, when she finally asked me out and I was over the mood, it was all an illusion.

She doesn't only write about me on there, she writes other personal stuff so I definitely don't think she would want me to find it. Last time, she was talking about how she is extremely hurt and feels like worthless unlovable trash after her fling ghosted her. To see that she had a fling made me numb... .I've stopped reading since then. I was also angry and wanted to comment on her post saying "how does it feel to be on the other side of being ghosted, huh?" but i stopped myself. I'm sad she feels worthless, I want to hug her... .but she hurt me too much... .I know it's been 7 months and she has the right to be with whoever she wants... .hell, she was talking about a crush 1 month after the breakup which makes me think that she might have known this person maybe before we broke up. Who knows... .


Harri, I stopped visiting the blog. I visited with the hope that she would miss me at some point and remember the good times. She did write a cryptic message about missing someone "more than she's ever missed anyone" but with her, I don't even know if she's talking about me... .I stopped and deleted the app when she wrote about her "fling" ghosting her. The word fling was a slap to the face. Since then, I've been numb... .To think a week before she broke up with me, she was saying "i love being with you and being your partner, you are so important to me, i love you so much"... .the words don't mean anything, do they?

You know what was the most irritating part of reading her posts? She talked about how she idealises and devalues people, she talks about how she is struggling with black and white thinking, she talks about how she wants to get well and be able to connect with people, that she regresses, that she dissociates... .yet she can't f**king see what she's doing, what she did to me. She talks about all the abusers in her life, her mom, her dad, her sibling, her high-school best friend and me. Yet she can't see what she does to these people. She just cuts people off. My T says that's her "style", that's how she deals with distress. What is all this "introspection" for, with her when it doesn't improve anything?

How do you depersonalise something that is completely addressed to you? How do you depersonalise something that is affecting your reputation, your support network, your life?


H2H, I'm sorry that this happened to you as well. I understand you yelling when someone is raging at you. My ex isn't the raging kind so sometimes I feel like I was the one that "raged"... .I never yelled, I just always told her when I was angry or fed up of her actions, her constant last minute cancellations and what not. I still feel like if I had just shut my mouth and not complained, things would have been different.

I shared so much of myself with her and she took it and twisted it all into this ugliness... .and because it is the shared parts of me that she twisted, it is hard to not see myself as this "ugliness". No matter how many fights or problems we had, I never said anything about it to anyone, I always encouraged her to get support from her friends and I realised that she has painted me black to them as well. Like you, I wanted the intimacy that was there slightly, at the start but even then, she would tell me that I was overwhelming her... .I thought with time, things would get better but it got worse. And on my side, I got more short-fused, I got more tired, drained as I was trying to meet her demands to change this and that and what not. Everytime we would have a good weekend together, something would come up during the week, something for me to change. I asked her for time, I told her I was working on it, that it wasn't easy... .guess she didn't want to wait.

I'm very much annoyed when I think of some of her posts on that blog of hers. She talks about how she wants an honest love, she wants someone to really love her and she then talks about these people that she is trying to get close to, crushes and what not and it angers me. She had all that, she had an honest love, I was there! Now she is running after other people... .it's agonising because I still love her. I think of her all the time and it hurts that maybe one day she'll get better (she goes to therapy... .even if it's just 10 sessions a year) and she was off meds for a while but in the process of changing to something that works. The new one she had tried gave her an allergic reaction). Since she is diagnosed, doing treatment and wants to be well, someday she will be... .but it won't be with me... .I met her too soon.


LoveOnTheRocks, I hope you are taking care of yourself. It can be draining sometimes when you look at BPD because it looks like there is no solution, there is no hope. It's not like a disease where your loved one goes through treatment and do their best to get better while allowing you to support and appreciating you for it. No, it's an illness where the treatment is there but they are not willing to do it or if they are, the treatment can all go downhill based on how they see their therapist. Plus, they push you away and hurt you so much. I get angry at my ex's therapist, asking myself why her T doesn't make her see all the stuff she is doing... .but then I guess her T is trying to approach it in a way that doesn't overwhelm her and makes her run away.

I want to say thank you for reading my long post, I didn't think anyone would, LOL! You are right, I'm an honest person and sometimes, things I say can end up brutally honest. I'm working on a more gentle approach. It's sad because when I got together with my ex, I promised myself I'd be the most honest with her and look where it got me. It's crazy how your daughter cheated on her boyfriend. I don't think my ex cheated on me during our relationship, physically at least but I don't know about "emotional cheating" .

She would say sorry when she did something that hurt me, despite me telling her it hurt me, like cancelling at the last minute and talk about how she will work on doing it less but it just happened again and again. I asked for her support so many times and she says she will work on giving it but it just doesn't happen... .I also hate the double standards... she can make fun of me, in front of people or privately but if I say something, it's abuse. For me, I always understood that it was jokes, when she would say blurt things I told her in confidence to people while I was right there in front of her, I'd let it go when she'd say sorry later. When she'd say things when she is irritated, I'd just accept that she is anxious and let it go. For me, it didn't matter how much I did to fix things, if I said sorry or I stopped doing it, she'd bring it up all the time, every time. It was so frustrating.

I've supported her in everything... .I've only not been there for her once... .just once where I told her I was drained and tired, that she is always crying and sad and I need happy moments because it is all making me depressed and tired and I was sick that day and it was the day of our fight... .it eats me up that I wasn't there for her, maybe if I had been there, thing would have been different.

You mention that your daughters calls you "evil", and I don't believe that at all. My ex calls her mum "evil" too though I believe she was actually abused by her mum but then again who knows what is true? When I read her blog before, it seemed that at the time of the breakup, her dad took my side and after that, she posted a rant about how after being with me, she can now clearly see that her dad is abusive as well. Lol, seems like she has abusers galore!

Thank you for saying I am not an abuser. I really appreciate the motherly affirmation. I'm getting there, slowly realising with the help of my T, my remaining friends and you guys that I am not. It's been 7 months and not one word from her. She didn't even wish me on my birthday when last year, I was supposed to have a holiday with my family for weeks and her birthday was within the last week and I made sure to book my flights so I'd be back in time for her birthday. She's the cut-off type, she won't come back. It's crazy how they chase after people who cannot love them and throw aside people who do love them. I want her back, LoTR but I'm being foolish, aren't I? There's no going back from this, isn't it?

~Sky

[spero]

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