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Author Topic: Unable to have conversation  (Read 443 times)
Chosen
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« on: November 13, 2018, 10:48:28 PM »

Lately, I find it impossible to talk to uBPDh about anything at all.  Because anything I say is interpreted as negative.  For example, I mentioned that D (a young toddler) is tossing and turning in her sleep, seems like she isn't sleeping very well, and when I asked H whether this is usually the case (he usually sleeps with her while I sleep with the baby because she needs to be breastfed, but for 1 night H took the baby and I slept with D, supposedly so that I could rest better), he said "I have contained the baby for x hours while you could rest, and all you do is complain about D messing up your sleep!"  Then he said that he does so much and still I'm dissatisfied. (this seems to be the ongoing comment he makes lately)

OK, so I am physically really tired (not to say mentally, on dealing with him), but I did not once mention it.  I merely said that D seems to be having poor quality sleep and I was wondering what could be done to improve it, and whether it was because I was sleeping with her.  Somehow, H took it as my complaint and personal attack.  And then we could no longer talk about D's sleep because I didn't want to go there again, be misunderstood again, and he obviously didn't want to talk about it in the first place.

If he tells me to do something and I have counterproposals, then I'm just looking to start a fight- he will either say I'm trying to pressure him (who's pressuring who now?), or he will say why do I object to everything he says, and criticise my decisions. 

It seems that he is unable to have a conversation without putting the blame on somebody and just looking to solve an issue.  It's not even about not JADEing anymore- it's about me not being able to open my mouth at all without him criticising me!  I don't really know what to do.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 11:09:52 PM »

Hi Chosen, it sounds like an already difficult situation (new baby and another young child) is being compounded by a partner who is unable to communicate. I can say from personal experience that it is extremely rough and I am sorry you are going through this during what should be a magical (if challenging) time.

How did he do with conversations like this before you had kids? Is there any chance it's being intensified by the stress of a new baby? I only ask so we can put the problem into two boxes: problems created by stress and ongoing problems unrelated to current situation. Of course we need to put most attention on the latter.

Your daughter's sleep difficulties aside, are you yourself getting enough rest?

Sending you strength,
RolandOfEld
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Chosen
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 02:44:37 AM »

Of course I don't have enough rest.  I work full time, and when I'm back home it's time with the kids.  Still have to wake up several times a night to deal with the younger one.  He doesn't get much rest too, so I get it, neither one of us are at such a good place mentally speaking. 

In order not to react (me reacting to whatever he says when I'm not in the best mental place is a recipe for disaster), I try to slow myself down, but being tired and all that, sometimes I'm not exactly very sensitive to the feelings he is showing through his speech.  In any case, it's hard to read between the lines when the lines are all attacking you as a person and every single sentence is saying how bad you are.  Every day, something I say/ do causes him to lash out at me.

Last night it was because I addressed his parents as "granny and grandpa" instead of "mum and dad" as I usually do (I was entering the house with D, so sometimes in my mind it's hard to switch back to "grownup" talk).  He proceeded to basically interrogate me, asking whether I'm angry at him, whether he's offended me (you can guess the tone, he's using those questions to scold me, not really to know an answer), and if not, why the h*** did I not address his parents?  I said it was a slip of tongue calling them "granny and grandpa", and he said it shows I don't want to address them, I don't respect them... .and today the texts are still going on.  Saying how he respects my side of the family, yet I don't even have the decency to address his parents... .etc... .I don't think the bottom of the issue is how I addressed them really; if he were in a better mood he would have believed me when I said it was a slip of tongue.  And today he didn't because he wants an excuse to lash out at me.  Or... .is this such a serious offense that warrants this kind of negativity?  Can anybody enlighten me?

I'm so, so mentally drained.  While I don't want to walk on eggshells and have to second-guess everything I say, I can't deal with this on a daily basis also.   
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2018, 12:54:07 PM »

Chosen, it sounds like he's hypersensitive to the possibility that you're criticizing him, to the point that when you even make a neutral statement, he reacts as if it's an attack.  You know not to JADE, but as a result, you're reluctant to say anything, which keeps you from having a voice.  Is that a fair summary of the situation?

You can't get him to make any quick changes, but you can.  When you make a neutral comment and he takes it as a criticism, you'll likely feel upset flare inside you at the unjust accusation.  Try to wait a second or two, and instead of stuffing the feelings, remind yourself that his feelings are authentic -- he really feels attacked.  This is a great opening for some validation, thanking him for containing the baby, asking if the older child is keeping him up, that you didn't realize how much the older child might be impacting his sleep, etc.  Your frame of mind is important when you do this.  If you feel like you're anxious or are just going through the motions to quell unjust accusations, you'll feel resentment -- he'll sense that, and you'll also just add to your stress.  But if you can do it from a place of confidence and compassion, you may find some success that eases things for the both of you.  Does that make sense?

Have you heard of the book, The High Conflict Couple?  It talks through some of the issues you are facing with communication, and could be a great resource for you.

RC
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Chosen
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 09:31:59 PM »

Chosen, it sounds like he's hypersensitive to the possibility that you're criticizing him, to the point that when you even make a neutral statement, he reacts as if it's an attack.  You know not to JADE, but as a result, you're reluctant to say anything, which keeps you from having a voice.  Is that a fair summary of the situation?

That's exactly what I'm going through right now.  "Hypersensitivity" is a good description of him now.  Seriously, I would yawn and he would probably take offense to it, thinking I'm trying to "show off" how tired I am.  So of course I'm reluctant to say anything!  I would apologise, yes, but then what?  Everything I say just opens myself up to another round of attack.  I need to get out of this situation!

I haven't read the High Conflict Couple.  I should give it a go, thanks!
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 10:24:14 PM »

Seriously, I would yawn and he would probably take offense to it, thinking I'm trying to "show off" how tired I am.  

Hi Chosen, I'm going to take this opportunity to move back into the topic of your rest and the effect on the situation since I've got some creds here.

Rest has been something like a precious commodity in our home for six years, one that we would fight each other to the death over since we have no family support.

He seems to pride himself on sleeping with your daughter "for you", but is there any real challenge there? S5 sleeps like a rock. My wife breastfed at night for a while but then eventually expressed before sleep and I took up this task. I continued when we moved to formula and have been the official night time caretaker ever since. My point - is he really "helping" you, or helping himself?

Bad sleep with a new baby is a given, but there are ways to make it up. Sadly, when it comes to a BPD partner all we can usually do is help ourselves. My wife thankfully signed off on me recently getting some babysitters to help out since she's at work (*cough* movies, sleeping all day, bars with friends) all the time now. This weekend I had the flu and the whopping 1.5 hrs of rest I got all came courtesy of the babysitter. But it was still a huge help.

Do you think you can engage some help for yourself without pricking his ego? Or privately? Any financial challenge? What's your daytime situation like?

~ROE  
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2018, 10:41:30 PM »

I can’t even imagine having to deal with my BPD husband while I was having babies ( I have 6). He came along much later. I’m sorry you get no validation for the incredible job you are doing and what it is taking out of you. And you’re working full time! Surround yourself with people who want the best for you and treat yourself like you are someone you have been entrusted to care for.
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Chosen
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 03:48:36 AM »

He seems to pride himself on sleeping with your daughter "for you", but is there any real challenge there? S5 sleeps like a rock. My wife breastfed at night for a while but then eventually expressed before sleep and I took up this task. I continued when we moved to formula and have been the official night time caretaker ever since. My point - is he really "helping" you, or helping himself?  

H is a full-time dad by choice, despite doing well in his job and having the potential for bigger things.  So yes, he is sacrificing himself a lot for the family.  And he is doing a great job.  When we're looking at the physical side of things, he is taking care of the kids and me well.  D2 has always slept poorly, so we can't really have her sleep alone yet, although H is training her (e.g. during naps).  She sleeps better with someone by her side.  I tend to want him to get proper rest at night because he takes care of the kids during the day, which is no easy task, so he needs his rest (although he doesn't rest easily as well, while I can sleep like a rock, given the chance, not that I have any). 

We have part-time help, but the problem is he isn't very good at delegation, and tend to do the mundane tasks himself.  I have reminded him many times that with somebody to help with the housework, he can make a mental list of what the helper could do, and not just leave her to it.  Of course she would pick the easiest tasks and then ignore the less desirable ones!  I think it's a trust issue.  He thinks nobody does things as good as he does, so he takes up everything himself, and get resentful.  But if other people (me?) try to do the tasks, he would criticise us and get resentful too! 
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 11:09:26 PM »

He thinks nobody does things as good as he does, so he takes up everything himself, and get resentful.  But if other people (me?) try to do the tasks, he would criticise us and get resentful too! 

I was very much in this place, even as a dad who took a six month leave for our first and a year leave for our second, which ended up costing me the job. My wife was home altogether for 4 years and just went back to work recently.

May I ask as much for my own reference, is he 100% consistent in terms of how he takes care of the kids? While she was taking care of them, my wife would do things like pass out drunk in the middle of the day, leave my son at home for an hour while she went food shopping, or hit them. It wasn't until recently that I figured out she could never be completely reliable.

What do you think his motivation for being a stay at home dad was? My wife has always used her 4 years at home as a boundless source of justification for attacking me.

~ROE
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Dry Bones

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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 09:28:02 AM »

Hi Chosen, I can definitely relate to your situation of having two young children and a partner with BPD. The lack of sleep makes everything worse and I have had some pretty savage slurs thrown at me in the middle of the night. I try to tell myself that the lack of sleep, at least, is temporary and we'll be back to catching some quality Zzzzs in the future.

I know what you mean about the difficulties in having a conversation. With my uBPDgf, no matter how hard I try, she perceives it as an attack. Recently, I tried to collaborate with her on a plan to help D7mos sleep through the night. She resented the fact that I did some research and left some articles open for her to read on the computer. "All of a sudden" I cared about that type of thing. It's like, yeah I want us all to get a better night's sleep!

Anyway, it has definitely proven a challenge to balance speaking my mind with not pushing any buttons or devalueing pwBPD's emotions. Seems like there is some good advice in this thread that could benefit us both. Best of luck to you!
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Chosen
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 10:32:09 PM »

RolandOfEld,

uBPDh sometimes uses his stay-at-home dad status to attack me too.  It was something we came up with together, and in good times he admits he gave up his job willingly because it is for the best of the family.  But he comes up with a lot of sour comments all the time, maybe not with the intention to guilt trip me, but it has that effect.  Like he would go on about how he gave up the best 10 years of his life/ career for us, and after the kids are grown he would be unemployable and be left with nothing.  How he isn't making money so he shouldn't spend anything on himself, etc.  Now, I completely understand that he sacrificed a lot to take care of the kids (and me), but I never, ever once put on a "I'm the breadwinner" stance, and in fact I try to do many things that reassure him that as long as money and assets go, we share everything (a larger part of our household assets are kept in his bank account so he could help to invest etc).  The things he say makes me feel bad about the whole situation, and many times I wonder if it would've been better, if he would've been happier if we hadn't taken that route and he didn't stay home.  (But it's nothing something I can discuss with him, because it would make things worse.  He would say "I've given up everything and you're still unhappy about the current situation".  He doesn't understand that I'm unhappy because he is unhappy!)

Dry Bones,

Giving my uBPDh articles to read sometimes ticks him off as well.  He would be really defensive and attack the writer, saying they know crap.  For example, I sent him an article on how we should try and understand the underlying needs of children before scolding them on their behaviour, he would attack the writer on endorsing poor attitudes of kids.  For me personally, if I get something useful/ inspiration from an article, good; if I find it rubbish, I disregard it.  For him, anybody who tries to give him tips he will ignore; it's either bad advice/ will not work on our kids (without him even trying), or he will personally attack the writer whom he doesn't even know.  I think he can't stand to have other people know more than him, although he always says he is really humble and like to take advice.  He has a hard time adjusting to certain aspects of parenting I think, because he thinks in black/ white, and can't really comprehend something being undesirable but understandable (e.g. a child manifesting a very real need in a poor manner). 

The most ironic thing though, is that the more I deal with my kids, the more I realise that he behaves like one a lot of times.  I now understand why they say pwBPDs have very primitive emotional expressions. 

I get a lot of "all of a sudden you start caring about xyz?" too.  Then he will usually follow up by saying it's "too little, too late".  I guess for pwBPDs (sorry if I generalised), I either do something at the moment he wants, or if I delay in doing it, it means I didn't do it.  For my uBPDh at least, I find that he has 0 ability to appreciate my goodwill or willingness to do something if the end product isn't what he wants.  He often complains that what I do "has no effect", and therefore I am worthless.  Hmm... .a bit of projection there perhaps?
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 10:01:16 AM »

RolandOfEld,
I get a lot of "all of a sudden you start caring about xyz?" too.  Then he will usually follow up by saying it's "too little, too late".  I guess for pwBPDs (sorry if I generalised), I either do something at the moment he wants, or if I delay in doing it, it means I didn't do it.  For my uBPDh at least, I find that he has 0 ability to appreciate my goodwill or willingness to do something if the end product isn't what he wants.  He often complains that what I do "has no effect", and therefore I am worthless.  Hmm... .a bit of projection there perhaps?

That sounds a LOT like my uBPDh. He talks a LOT about people being helpful or not helpful. If I can't make things work the way he wants, then I'm not helpful. Doesn't matter if I'm trying. If I'm not giving him what he wants, it doesn't count. I've told him I like to help and will help however I possibly can but I'm limited in what I can do. He seems to get it. Then right back to "You're not helping!" He talks the same way about other people, too -- but complains to me. "Your dad isn't being helpful." It's a constant thing lately and very hurtful since I know I'm trying my hardest -- and so are other people. I try to remind myself it's the BPD talking. But it's hard feeling like you can never win.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2018, 11:09:39 PM »

uBPDh sometimes uses his stay-at-home dad status to attack me too.  It was something we came up with together, and in good times he admits he gave up his job willingly because it is for the best of the family.  But he comes up with a lot of sour comments all the time, maybe not with the intention to guilt trip me, but it has that effect.  Like he would go on about how he gave up the best 10 years of his life/ career for us, and after the kids are grown he would be unemployable and be left with nothing.  How he isn't making money so he shouldn't spend anything on himself, etc.  Now, I completely understand that he sacrificed a lot to take care of the kids (and me), but I never, ever once put on a "I'm the breadwinner" stance, and in fact I try to do many things that reassure him that as long as money and assets go, we share everything

Chosen wow I lived through the exact same thing as you just gender reversed. Normal adults need to accept the result of decisions they made, even if it was made for the good of others. It's clear no one forced him. But in my experience it is next to impossible for someone with BPD to accept this kind of statement. What's important is  that you keep his own responsibility for his life very firmly in your mind so that you don't let his guilting sink in too deep like I did. Guilt in our relationship made me something next to a slave.

At one point, my wife convinced into transferring the majority of my monthly pay to her as her "salary" for being a stay at home mom, leaving me with almost nothing.

Since my wife went back to work our situation has done a total flip - she does very little to directly abuse me, but is so absent from our lives most of the time that I've been a 95% single father. So it's just a more passive form of torture. 

What are his prospects for going back to work and when do you expect this to happen? Is it possible for him to work part time to have some of his own income?

~ROE
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 04:27:01 AM »

Hi Chosen,

Excerpt
He doesn't understand that I'm unhappy because he is unhappy!

I can relate to that. I tried to tell my husband that, but it puts too much pressure on him. In the end, our happiness shouldn't rely on other person's happiness.

 
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