Two years later, I'm here with updates on my relationship with my BPDgf

[Pytagoras]

Two years ago i had a 3-month relationship with a BPD Gf that finished. You can see here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=302342.0

Strangely, we get back together, start to live together a month after, and two years later, i'm here to report how has it been.

The first months of living together were nice. She was very motivated. Decorating the house, being a "wife". I gave her a ring. She cried of happiness.

But she had this raging episodes, specially jealously. Everyday she was suspicious of something. And she believed that was true, so she raged against me, the cheater. There were so many stupid episodes: i couldn't even go with her in the streets, as she started to say that I was looking to other women. And that wasn't true.

I never cheated her. I even ended friendships. I erased my Facebook. My cell phone was always checked by her. I got isolated.

I suffered a lot in those months, but I was always very patient with her and she had some loving periods towards me.

She treated me bad sometimes, blaming me, ordering something, etc.

But at some time, i was so  up, that I started to impose myself and did not allow her to treat me the way she did. We start fighting more. I couldn't be the patient guy I was before.

This summer (August), in a fight, i said her to get out (in our fights, i told her two or three times to leave the house), but the day after i apologized and said that was because of the anger i felt in the fight. But in this particular time, she did leave.

She went to another house, and was very hurt with me. But two weeks later we were already engaging again and she said she loved me.

She invited me to live with her in her new house and that she would never be back to my house again. We slept together several times and had some good moments, but i had my Facebook back (I have deleted the account 1 year before, because she was always accusing me, even when she had total access and saw that i wasn't talking to anyone) and i said i didn't want to be friends to her, because I had to protect myself. Maybe later, if i saw she was better with the jealous thing.

I started to speak to my friends again, and feel a litle bit more relieved as she went to another house. But i still want to be with her.

Good news: she is in therapy at 4 or 5 months.

Sometimes she admits she has a problem, in other times she says that I am abusive and she is in therapy to get enough strength to leave abusive relationships.

Note that i never beat her, never called her names. I yelled at her a few times, as she did the same. I mostly withdraw the house or the place for a couple of hours just to avoid escalate the fight. Sometimes she was yelling at me "Why are you treating me like this?" and I was doing absolutely nothing.

Also, i think she has sex issues. We almost never had sex. Sometimes she says that she has a problem, but then, when she is angry and hurt (almost all of the time) she says that is all my fault.

When she drinks alcohol, she seems like a totally different person. She become more loving and desires to have sex with me. Sometimes i get " ?"

Two weeks ago, we had a good weak, slept together, had fun. She said that she loved me. And then, she start saying that she loved me, but she couldn't give me what i deserved. And i deserved to be happy. And it would be selfish to keep me for herself, and she wanted to break up. Same night, she said she misses me. Next day, raged against me because she said i was following someone on Instagram and ended up relationship in fury. She said that our relationship was all damaged, and i hurt her a lot. Invented some things that were not true and that was impossible to be back together. I said goodbye. three days later, she contacted me to ask for some girl that i was a friend of in Facebook (i wasn't). It was an excuse to speak to me. Then liked a photo of mine. Then said that her emotions were winning her thoughts.

I told her i loved her, that i wanted to get back. That i missed her and that i know now that i can improve some things in my behaviour.

Next day she said "I will answer you later". Only two days later she said "Sorry i didn't respond, but I've been thinking about this."

I asked how she was, and one day later, she responded "i feel very tired " (she works a lot).

She didn't said anything about her thoughts, about her conclusions, about if she likes my idea of get back together or not. Nothing.

This was yesterday.

She ended up the relationship, but still says she loves me. And if sees i don't say anything, she teases me. I think she is all messed up with the psychological work and the mornings she is doing in her therapy. And she feels very hurt. Maybe she wants a time to heal and to be alone. I feel her very distant. I don't know if she will get back to me. her behaviour is contradictory. She ends up the relationship in anger (mostly because of her jealously), and one weak later, she says she is thinking about it?

She ended the relationship several times and said the same things she said this time, but now she is more distant, mostly because we do not live together anymore and I don't see her at almost two weeks.

Curiously, two years later, I am here writing, with the same dilemma: Will the relationship resume? And I was ambiguous as I am today.  What do you think?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Insom]

Hi,  Pytagoras.    Thanks for the update.  

Curiously, two years ago, i was here writing, with the same dilema: Will the relationship resume? And i was ambigous as i am today.

How do you feel about finding yourself in the same dilemma two years on?  Do you feel the same as you did two years ago?  What, if anything, has changed?

[Pytagoras]

Thank you Insom,

On one hand, my expectations are different. Two years ago, we had just three months of relationship and she had a abortion that affected her very much. I hopped that if i behaved "well" with her, things would get better, and we could have a different relationship.

I was very patient, and a month later, she was really diferent with me, more warm and loving, but also more jealous and afraid.

Now, i don't expect to live great things with her. But i am attached to her. We slept together for two years and lived a lot of episodes together, so the afection had grown.

I guess i still have some hopes, even if almost all points otherwise.

I also have some regrets. Sometimes i wasn't the calm guy that the situation required. Sometimes i didn't follow the tips of the books (yes, i've read them). I know i can do better.

And maybe that attaches me to the situation.

Also, she didn't ended up properly. She ends, and still comes back saying something.

Part of me feels that the relationship isn't over. Maybe she is getting some revenge - in her way of thinking, i was bad to her (wich is curious, because, when she  feels good, she says i am good to her. That happened three weaks ago), maybe she needs some space, maybe she is manipulating me to get something in the future of just to regain control. Or maybe she ended and is just afraid to detach completely from me. I dont know.

I also feel, that with all the suffering i passed, i am stronger now, and more mature. But maybe the lesson isn't over. I have troubles ending relationships. Some friend said to me: "In this relationship, you are the one who has to break up. You will need to learn it."

[Pytagoras]

Please Give me your Toughts on this.

What do you think of this in general?
What do you think she is doing?
What do you think i sould do?
What do you think of my role in all of this?
Or else you feel pleased to say.

Thank you

[once removed]

hi Pytagoras,

my first thoughts are stick around. use this board (the Detaching board is for if you are done with the relationship and working through the stages of grief) to get on steadier ground. in these relationships, a strong support system and good sounding board are critical. if you leave your support group and only post when the situation is in crisis, it doesnt leave you a lot of room to help your circumstances.

learn the tools and skills on this board. ask questions about what youre learning and reading. start practicing them with the people in your life... .they work with everyone, but like anything, they can be unnatural at first, and require practice.

i think youre on target that theres a lot going on in her life right now, and people with BPD traits dont do stress very well. it sounds like shes feeling conflicted, and that interacting or thinking about the relationship is a lot of pressure. does that sound right?

the first rule here is do no harm... .dont chase, dont over pursue, beg, wear your heart on your sleeve, or otherwise pressure. it sounds like so far, you havent done those things, and youve given/respected her space.

at the same time, shes not expressly telling you to leave her alone or demanding/requesting space. periodic, zero pressure, light, and upbeat reach outs at this stage, could keep the waters warm.

what do you think?

[Pytagoras]

Hi once removed,

Thank you for your comment. I apreciated.

I've been dealing with borderline relationship for a while. This is not my first relationship with BPD girls, but is, by far, the more intense. I am masters in Clinical Psychology ( but i don't pratice ), i have  read a lot of books, and foruns, and posts about this topics, and so, i already have some resources. But still, its not easy for me.

I did said to her once, that i loved her and would like to get things better between us, because i thought it was important to reassure that. But, yes, i am not pressuring her. I am giving her space and i only text her back when she texts me. And i say inocuous stuff.

She only responds two days later, but i never complaint.

It was very dificult to me in the first days, but now i'm doing my stuff: gym, working, take care of the house, etc.

One thing that i think is very strange: She was always calling me, trying to know where i was, always suspicious if i was with another woman. But now, day after day, night after night, she never calls. I now could date several women, the thing she were most afraid of. Is this normal? This happens?

I dont know what is happening in her life now. Probably it's what you have said. Only time will tell.

[Pytagoras]

I have a few more questions.

Sometimes, along the relationship, i texted her, complaining because we had no sex, and complaining because she was self-centered and gave me nothing.

The day before the break-up, i texted her asking why she was so distant.

I realized later, that this messages were a bad idea. But what's done it's done. I'm still learning... .

When she breaked up, in the first day, she said that i deserved do be happy and that she was doing some intense psychological work and that she would not be fit to me for a long time, and that she wanted me very much, and loved me, but it would be selfish try to keep me for herself.

I responded that i understand and that i would like to be at her side, that she was the one i loved and that she make me happy. I apologized about the times that i pressured her.

That night she said she missed me.

Next day, she discovered that i followed some girl in instagram, went crazy, and ended up. Then, she argued that our relationship came to a very low point and that she was empty and could not gave me anything else. Two days later of NC and she text me again asking about a girl that i was supposedly friend on facebook.

My questions:

1- Is it normal for a BPD say that we deserve better and maybe they can't give us what we want? Why does that happen? What are they feeling?

2- Why do you think she first said that, and then, the next day went crazy with jealous?



PS: Almost two weaks have passed, and i never saw her again or called her. Only this ocasional messages on whatsapp.

She changed her profile picture on whatsapp. Published one were she is very pretty, with make up.
She only changed photo on Whatsapp. She didn't on Facebook where we are no friends.

It's curious that the only three times that she changed photo, was when we didn't speak.

[once removed]

there are a lot of longstanding and complex conflicts that it will help to post about/work through over time here. the two of you may get back together, but those things will persist unless they can be resolved with help.

certainly the sexual relationship between the two of you is one of them.

how long ago did the two of you go through the abortion?

in her way of thinking, i was bad to her
... .
She ended the relationship several times and said the same things she said this time

what things does she say? in what ways does she say you are bad to her?

1- Is it normal for a BPD say that we deserve better and maybe they can't give us what we want? Why does that happen? What are they feeling?

these are statements of emotional unavailability, or low self esteem, or both. they may also have to do with the thus far unresolved conflict in your specific relationship.

2- Why do you think she first said that, and then, the next day went crazy with jealous?

jealousy is fairly common with BPD traits... .its an emotion that can be overwhelming, and people with BPD traits are, by nature, easily overwhelmed by their emotions and act out.

[Pytagoras]

1- The abortion was in the begining of the relationship (1 month). She got pregnant in an unstable enviroment.  She putted all the responsability of the decision on my side and i decided not to take ahead the pregnancy. I said that in other time in the future, i would like very much to have a baby with her, but in that time, we hadn't good conditions. A day before the abortion, as i saw her suffering, i said to her, that if she wanted the child, i would suport, but she carried on with the abortion, and i was always by her side. The next two months, she went very depressive and very distant and angry with me. She also texted her ex-'s in front of me. The idea i got is that she wanted to hurt me. I was very patient and two months later she agreed to come and live with me and then she became to be more loving and warm.

2 - She normaly says that i lost her, because i mistreated her, that i will never have a woman as great as her, that she lost her self-esteem with me ( when she is in good mood she says exactly the oposite ), that i will never have her again. These are the things i heard several times, and this time too. This time, she also said some nasty things that i never done nor said. For exame, she said that i said that she dresses like a whore. Or that i said that i would get a better woman. But this "inventions" are also common. I'm not perfect and i realize that there is several things that i can improve, but i feel that that's not the main reason she end's the relationship. Normaly it's more about her paranoic ideas that i have other women and her fear of abandonment. One thing that she normally complaints is that i said to her to leave the house ( find another one ): "You Know that i have no family in this town, nobody to help me, and you putted me out". I, in fact, said it, 2 or 3 times, in fights, but i never meant it. I always apologize later, but in the last time, she went out. I was angry with her, because she was never home, she didn't clean the house, etc. She has this victim mindset. I think she felt some deep pleasure in leaving because then she could play the victim.

3- When she says that i deserve to be happy, it's because she realizes that she has sex issues and i complaint about the absence of sex. And because she is emotioanlly unvailable right now, because she is passing through some rough memories in her therapy, i think. Also, she maybe is playng a game, expecting me to say that i dont want anybody else ( she thinks that i want to date someone else and i am stuck with her ).

4- She is tremendously jealous. I've never witnessed something like this, and i had several gf before. She is completely paranoid and imagine all kinds of scenarios. But she is only jealous with the person she is engaged with. So, she is still attached to me, even tough she breaked up.

5- Speaking of wich, it's normal when BPD distances, stop with the jealous worries she had before? Even in the day before the break up, she asked where i was that night. And now, it's like she didn't worry anymore.

[Pytagoras]

She tried to hurt me in several ways and several times along the relationship. I realized that she needed to extapolate her agression towards me, and that's the way she copes with her hurt and fear.

She tried different forms of violence / agression, and i think that is possibile that this breakup and distance can also be a means to hurt me.

What do you think ?

[Radcliff]

It's difficult to know what her intent is with any of her actions.  There may be several reasons at once.  How did she use violence or aggression, and how did you respond?

RC

[Pytagoras]

Hi Radcliff,

She used violence in several ways. Some examples:

1- yelling at me, saying that i was mistreating her, when i did nothing ( she mispercieved ). I could tell lot's of episodes, but i have several memories of her, screaming on my face "you are mistreating me !" with me absolotely silent. In one or two ocasions, i yeld back. Most of the times, i just leaved the place. In the firts months i stood there, and when she was more quiet, i would try do explain in a calm way what happened so that she could understand she mispercieved the situation. Several months later i becamed more frustrated and less calm.

2- Humiliating me. Saying that she had lot's of sex with other guys but not with me. Saying that her sex issues are just with me ( she contradicted herself on this, when not emotionally activated ). And when i did not respond, she would feel ashamed and tryied to have sex with me right after. She did compared me to other ex-boyfriends in other areas, always diminishing me ( when she was on a good mood, she said i was a great boyfriend ).

3- Trying to piss me of, saying that she would go with other guys when she mispercieve that i was cheating on her.

4- Threatening to break up on several ocasions. She did break up a few ( i did this too ).

5- Being very agressive in general because in her head, i was looking to other women.

All of this situations started to decreased since i stood up to defend me, and since we started to spend fewer time together, because we both started to work a lot and them, when she leave to another house.

She wrote some motivating words on the mirror of bathroom in her house about her dificult path, and she is very proud of been able to get a house of her own and been able to acomplish some things by er own without the help of a man. Clearly she feels that i abandoned her and that she was forced to start acomplishing things by her own, and feeling proud of that. Nevertheless, she invited me to go live with her in her house: "if we live together, it will be at my house. I will never go back to yours again". I said that  i could do that, but several detaisl had to be solved so that would happen. I dont think she was satisfied with the answer and after the break up, i realized that she gave me several hints that she would like me to go live with her and she was not pleased when knowing that i was decorating my house.

[Pytagoras]

I recall that not long ago, she said to me that she has a long walk in therapy, traumas and mournings. That she will not be able to be the best person she can be for a while and that she is afraid that i will no wait for her to complete her therapy.

Maybe she thinks i will abandon her in half the way, and so, she breaks-up first.

[Pytagoras]

UPDATE:

I erased my Facebook account a year and a half ago, because, despite she had full access to my Facebook, and she realized i didn't spoke with other women, she always get an excuse to attack me and acuse me of something. So i decided to erase Facebook.

almost 3 month ago, i created a new Facebook acount, where i can now speak to my friends and i told her that i didn't want her to be my friend on Facebook, because i needed to protect myself against her attacks. Plus, she wouldn't see my messenger anymore. If i notest that she improved the jealous thing, we could be friends again, and maybe she could access my facebook. Maybe in the future, i said.

But she went crazy about that and never get to rest again. Always asking about women, who do i speak, etc. Always complaining that it was humiliating to her that everybody, including friends that we have in common are my friends but not her.

Nevertheless, the profile of her shop ( that is used by her ) is a friend of mine, and after the break up she did liked some of my photos.

One weak ago, I asked her friendship in Facebook, and today she accepted. She could had accepted earlier, but she decided only today.

She had a video published yesterday, with the title "Biggest relationship killer in 2018".

it gives me the feeling that she is playing... .breadcrumbing me... .To me to chase her and at the same time, have her little vengeance. She has her timming... .from two in two days, she does something. Sometimes only one day passes by.

I am cool on my corner and don't chase her nor do i pressure her. Only respond when she contacts me.

[once removed]

1- The abortion was in the begining of the relationship (1 month)
... .
The next two months, she went very depressive and very distant and angry with me. She also texted her ex-'s in front of me.

this is a major emotional blow, for both of you, and very early on in the relationship; its very difficult to recover from, and she may carry a lot of feelings stemming from the entire thing to this day.

"You Know that i have no family in this town, nobody to help me, and you putted me out". I, in fact, said it, 2 or 3 times, in fights, but i never meant it.

breakup threats, or threatening to kick her out, these things can also break down trust and do damage that is difficult to recover from.

3- When she says that i deserve to be happy, it's because she realizes that she has sex issues

a lot of women will tell you that trust and emotional connection are a hugely important aspect for them when it comes to the sexual relationship. at what point in the relationship did this start happening?

[Pytagoras]

Hello once_removed,

She said that only once (that i deserved to be happy, and that it would be selfish of her try to keep me for herself), few days before the break-up. But she was not speaking solely of sexual issues, she refered that she was very very hurt and couldn't give me anything at the moment. Maybe in the future we could be happy again, because she loved me.

I responded that it was ok. That she didn't had to worry and that i could be beside her nevertheless. She seems pleased. But then, the next day, she get furious about a woman that she thought that i was a friend of in facebook and ended the relationship. I think the jealous paranoia is the one thing that makes her more angry and hurt.

The sexual issues were always present, at least, from time of the abortion. I never pressured her about that. But in the last months i started to complain about the absence of sex, texting her a few times about that.

After the abortion, and after that two months, things improved a lot. But i was very very patient and supportive. And she could warm up again. But sex was always too scarce.

After a year of her abusive behavior and me always being patient and manage to receive all the blows, i started to be more impatient, more agressive.

And we had a lot of fights.

I never called her names nor beated her. I sometimes leave the place or ask her to leave. But i apologized after.

And i always gave her affection, always did what she asked.

She said she would never go back to my house again, but she invited me to live with her in her house (three weeks ago). She is hurt that i asked her to leave my house. But i never meant it. It was just in the course of our fight and i apologized after.

I would like to get together again with her and be supportive and try do make things right. I think i can do that now. I think i am now able to support her and be there just for her, understanding and accepting her situation. But she is distanced right now. 5 days that she wont speak to me. Nevertheless she accepeted frienship on Facebook 3 days ago.

Today i texted her, that she may be very angry and hurt, that i understood. That i love her and she is very important to me. That i would like to make things right and improve situation, but i respect her space. I also said that if and when she is ready to speak or when she wants to, i am here to her.

What do you think?

[Pytagoras]

Note that we had an excellent week before the break-up. We slept together, she hugged me a lot, we get out and had fun more than one time, and had no discussions. It was the best time together that we had in a long time. And i was very loving towards her. She said to me that she was afraid, because we were having a good time, but in a minute, all could change and we would fight.

But then, she became distant, i told her that, and she tried to break-up saying the stuff i told you in the previous post. And in the next day, the jealous, the fury and the break up.

[once removed]

What do you think?

i think you have done an excellent job in laying out where you are coming from.

im not sure that it reflects where she is coming from, which is part of the breakdown between the two of you.

certainly, suspiciousness/jealousy are pretty common to BPD traits, whether or not we ever do a single suspicious thing (and sometimes we do). and they will likely be a storm you will have to weather regardless.

but its not unlike how some couples fight way more than others, yet they resolve it, and they stay together, and it works.

she has a higher degree of suspiciousness and jealousy than most, and from your end its a significant problem (and it is a significant problem, one that has been exacerbated, that the two of you will need to learn to work together on), but im not sure its the primary factor breaking down the long term trust or fulfillment in your relationship. the two of you havent found your footing in terms of working together and getting on the same page when it came to major relationship tests, and it has broken down trust and intimacy, despite the good times. that, assuming the two of you get back together, will take a lot of work to build.

theres a bigger picture here youve got to see in order to work with. make sense?

[Pytagoras]

once removed

Yes. It makes sense.

I think its a mix of things. I was more distant and unsuportive in the last months, We had more fights ( I could be more calm and not taking things personally ), and sometimes I threat to kick her out or to finish relationship. All the things i could do better were because i was too resenteful with her and sometimes I could deal with it, sometimes I did not.

Of course, she is very wounded. It seems that she is always in pain, and the slighest thing i do makes her feel in pain, hurt, and sometimes raging. Almost all discussions were about minor things and would not be a problem if she was not in so much pain. But i need to be more considerative that this is her reallity and sometimes I did not, because I was also hurt and angry.

I need to not take it so personally, because her rage came and go.

I have a lot to work with to be better in this relationship, and if we get back together, i am staying here, working with you, and reading and learning more. Not only coming in a crisis situation.

What do you need to know to better understand where she is coming from?

PS: I think she likes that i chase her. I did it in the past, and she enjoyed. Maybe it makes her feel loved. Sometimes she did retreat when hurted, threat to break up and leave, i went to her, and after some resistance, she stayed. She also played a lot of games, removing stuff from the house, pretending.

[Pytagoras]

After 5 days of no responding ( altough she did accepted my friendship on Facebook in between ), yesterday i texted her on Whatsapp. I said that i loved her, aknowledging that i did some things wrong, and i would like to improve our situation, nevertheless, i wanted not to pressure her or go against her wishes, so i would respect her distance and her silence, and i would be here if and when she feels confortable to speak. I also mentioned how important she is to me and that i am receptive do listen to her, about her hurts and manage to do something about it.

She was online but she did not respond yesterday nor today. I think that if her idea was to end the relationship, she would clear things up and say that the relationship was over.

I think i will wait for her. Theres not much i can do now. I already said everything i had to say.

PS: She published a video, 3 days ago, on her Facebook feed name "Biggest relationship killer in 2018". In the video it is said that all relationships have lots of problems, fights, conflicts, and all need to be worked out. But nowadays people discard relationships too easy, and go try to find unrealistic ideals and people on social media.

I mean, if she agrees with this, she agrees that we can work out our relationship. I think.

[Pytagoras]

I need advice.

UPDATE:

After i texted her like i said in the last post, she answered with a sad emoji.

And in that same night, she called me 3 am, totally out of the blue. I speaked with her, we only spoke a few words. She said she was going to sleep and that she would call me in the next day. I asked why was she calling me, and she said "I don't know". Then she texted me "And why aren't you sleeping yet?". And then, she told me that she wanted to speak, but she couldn't. It was very very difficult, she felt like she was burning inside and felt very hurt and very revolted.

I responded that she could go easy and things would get easier, and she could speak only when she was ready. I don't know if i missed an oportinity to put her to speak. I think she would feel better after that.

Next day and today she only texted me twice each day. Being more silent now, but still better then before.

I need advice. What do you think of this and what do you think i can do?

[once removed]

i think youre handling it pretty well, and that all in all, its a positive development.

i dont think you can or should do much more... .adding her on facebook was a good gesture that thawed some of the ice, perhaps. shes reaching out now, but has clearly communicated that its painful to do... .but still makes the effort.

so no, i wouldnt push, but i would be receptive, and id do what i can.

what are the exchanges like? it would help to know more about what the two of you are saying.

[Pytagoras]

She only said what i've wroten in the last posts. Yesterday i texted her with "Good Morning".

She responded much later with an "How are you?", i said "i am ok. And you?" and "i am downloading a series to watch" and she answered "What series?" and i responded and she didn't said anything else. She has a beauty salon. Yesterday evening, when she was already closed, i went there and putted under the door a paper with a hand drawing of a rose, and saying "I hope you have a good day" and a heart. So that in the morning when she opened he door, she could see the paper.

Today, 15h, she texted me "I saw your paper", "Thank you."

I asked "Did you like it? " and she didn't respond anymore.

I think i will call her tonight, as she did to me three days ago, just to send a kiss and ask "how are you?"

It's been almost three weeks that we don't see each other.

[once removed]

I think i will call her tonight, as she did to me three days ago, just to send a kiss and ask "how are you?"

i might dial down the romantic stuff, for now. you dont want to over pursue in this case.

shes very clear on your feelings and that youd like to be together. it seems like she appreciates it, and the gestures, but isnt ready to reciprocate... .if you push for more, she may shut it down.

i dont think calling her is such a bad idea. id try to keep it fun, and funny... .light and upbeat, and not heavy or romantic... .unless she goes there. let her lead or at least let her make clear shes ready.

what do you think?

[Pytagoras]

once removed,

Well, in my last texts ( three days ago ), i told her I loved her and that i would like to be together with her, and she reacted well and tried to reach out. From my experience with her, I think she apreciates romantic stuff and I think that it can ease up her hurt. In other tantrums or light separations, the romantic stuff i did, always obtained a positive result. Of course I have to be very carefull not to flood her with romantic stuff. It's not apropriate at this time. I have to be very subtle. I will only make another romantic attempt later, and depends on her behavior in the next days.

Yes, she cannot reciprocate at this time. I am aware of that and i told her: "i know you cannot give me anything at the moment, because you are very hurt, and that's ok". But i also think that if she wanted to really break up, she would not have the reactions she is having. She would clear things up.

This is a game of patience. And i feel very anxious some days. It's not been easy to me. Try to control the anxiety and react to her in a calm and patient way.

Maybe she is also testing me. See if i really love her, and if i can wait for her and be patient. Also see if i value her enough and gain some confidence that will overthrow her fears of returning to me. She is probably afraid of getting back together and suffer more.

I called her tonight and she didn't answer the phone. I texted her saying that i called just to say hello and wish her a goodnight.

My idea is talk to her about light stuff, not intense emotional stuff. She is very afraid of speaking and confused. I think that if we speak about light stuff several times, she will gain more confidence and feel closer.

And i'm thinking of proposing that to her. Something like: "I know it's very hard to you to speak to me right now, but we could speak about light everyday life stuff, not intense emotional stuff, and in the future, if you feel more confident and when you feel it's ok, you can speak about your hurt, your fears, and i think you'll feel better. What do you think?"

Because she is now talking very little to me, even if it is only about light things, I think that this is creating a distance between us and mantaining the difficulty of comunicate.

What do you think?

[once removed]

What do you think?

it all sounds like a good plan.

This is a game of patience.

yes. on this board, we often call it "playing the long game"... .it has to be. short term stuff, or desperate measures dont work, and even if they did, theres a long and complicated history in this case.

still calling her tonight? keep us posted on how it goes.