He has BPD, sex and sexuality issues too Part 2

[desperate.wife]

Little quote from last post:

Confession in January he is in love with a man, and that he hid that he was bi even from himself for 15 years. He’d like to see men if I am ok with that.
Great sex between us. I am enough for him.
Uncontrollable sex needs. Behaves like an addict.
Demands for open marriage.
His doctor thinks that he talks too much about sex and wants to talk about something else.
Suddenly lost desire for me. 2 attempts to have sex. He didn’t enjoy.
In hospital, he slept with a female patient.
We went on a trip. We had sex, he didn’t enjoy.
We had sex once since then. He liked it. It was horrible for me. He didn’t care about me at all. Just about him. That was beginning of July. Since then, nothing.
At hospital, he told that he still had no desire for me. But with those new medics he had no desire at all since mid September.

Here is the rest of it:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326312.0

Yesterday I received two books for creative zen writing and I cried when I touched them. So much stress ordering few simple books. Can we afford it? I shouldn’t buy it. It is not necessary, it can wait for better times. I delayed one month, I prefer to get smth for my girl. Christmas coming.  At the same time he was coming up with things he wanted…He got his game in exchange of giving up weed for a month. I gave up cheese to get her kinetic sand. Money issue is stressing me.

And him too. But he only stresses if there is 0 in account. If not…
Every year, around holidays mostly, we go through the same thing. He wants something. And that is some new computer, phone or so. Every year. He would get some extra money and instead of putting it aside, he spends it. It is Christmas, he says. He asks my permission, I object, try to reason, he is upset like a kid with no candy and I give up. Every time I feel guilty: he deserves, he worked…
This year with all financial and personal troubles, nothing has changed. For his birthday he demanded either piano (keyboard), 3D printer, or smth else. He is so enthusiastic with his ideas, like it would change his life but in reality it would be toys for few days…It puts so much pressure on me. I can’t buy him that. I didn’t. I got him t-shirt with his favourite tv show quote.  It was not enough I could tell. He tried to be nice. Now for Christmas he wanted new watch, to back up this, he kept programing something that he can use on that watch. Kept him busy and in ok mood. I said we can’t afford that. I said we would see on December if we don’t run out of money. He signed up to some survey site to make extra money for it. Did one…Too much effort…Then he told me to write to his family to chip in for his watch…Seriously?, we discussed already that we don’t have money for presents for whole family, home made cookies will do (I think it is nicer anyway, than buying thing to people you are not in touch much and don’t know what they like or need). And he doesn’t want to see his family, he declined invitation for Christmas at his sisters, saying he prefers to go to see my family on holidays, and I have to ask them for money for his presents? I don’t think so. I tell him that. With no validation. No empathy.  The other day he comes all happy to me. He found used watch for less. I just lost it. NO NO NO. It is just principle. We said no. No money, we already spent more than we should and still car needs new tires… And we need new car seat, and shoes for winter. Then for two days I was feeling guilty. He seemed ok. He said ok, he can wait till January or February... .I knew he was going to buy it anyway. Used one costs 100 less. I gave up…He found new one in another country on black Fridays sale. And bought it. So much of principles.

I am not feeling good lately, my strength has vanished. I miss feeling ok. I miss being calm and just enjoying my time with my daughter. What changed? He was nice for few weeks. Trying to fit in family. I was fine when I was ready to be just me and my girl. And he does what he wants, which was mostly being depressed. But he was better and I left of my guard, started expect things. He thought things home where fine. That’s what he told his new doctor. Anyway, his enthusiasm vanished, he was more inactive again and so hopeless, asks for permission for everything. He started talking about sex, like we should do it when our girl is at preschool group on Monday mornings. I can’t do it like that, lot of has been broken this year. Just have sex like that like nothing has happened? Just because now we can? I thought I could, but then other day, after moth of break he was going to pleasure himself, I don’t know why, I offered help, he said ok. I panicked. I took long long shower crying. Didn't go to help him. I guess I got scared it would all be about him, his obsession would come back. I had needs and all he had to do was to touch me, but he didn’t. He said, he could pleasure me anytime, but he never touched me. I didn’t realise how much traumatised I was by all that happened this year. I am scared he wouldn’t enjoy me, he wants sex and I am only one he can have it with, I am afraid it would all be about him. Since then my mood would go down. He got ill, and made comment we would be having sex now if I was not ill…More panic. I was feeling more and more resentful, dreaming about time away by the sea, wanting him to ask for divorce. I was not feeling sorry he was sick, he didn’t take care of himself, to get better, he was waiting me to give him magic pill. And our girl got sick, I had few sleepless nights. I needed help, she was vomiting in bed, but he didn’t hear anything, nor my calls nor her cries. In the morning he didn’t ask how she was.

I cried from joy when he went back to work. I don’t hate him, I am just tired, and it is lighter at home when we are just two of us: me and my girl. My PMS hit me hard this month. With all impatience and angriness, and feeling helpless and wanting out. I know helpless feeling will go away once pms is finished. What concerns me most, is anger I feel. That I can’t accept. Little thing she disobeys and instead of dealing with it patiently and playfully like I normally do, I get angry. Like uncontrollably angry, wanting to smash things. I am scared. I identify it and control it, but few seconds too late. I felt it, she saw it. So clearly I am not ok. When I am ok, I don’t feel this way. Why I am not ok. Do I really want out?
Yesterday we were talking about nothing, and he said joking "divorce. Pretty please". I asked what? Was not sure what he said. We were not talking about anything seriously, I don’t even remember what were we talking. And first he was still joking, assuring he doesn’t want divorce and wouldn’t do it. But then he admitted he is not happy. And you know why? Lack of sex. MMM. It is not that we avoided it. At first he was sleeping from 7 pm to 10 am. Then he got ill. And our connection was never restored. Last time he got really bad, he complained of lack of sex, even so he slept 12 hours a day and was moody the rest of the time, what sex? I told him it will take time, it will not happen in a week. I also told I was not completely happy, which he takes as I am completely unhappy. I am not: I have my girl and I am happy with her. I can still feel joy. He can’t. He feels guilty that he can’t enjoy her fully, be a dad she needs. I see he tries. The other day he watched video from two years ago, and he said that’s your husband. He was playing with our girl in the video. He beats himself up that he is not feeling it anymore. So I saw he was suffering yesterday. This morning I hugged him, I suddenly felt I want him to be better. I always feel like I want help him when he feels sad, since first day we met…He touched me gently and it felt good. But he looked sad when he left.

He is reading that book again, that had made sex great at the beginning of the year. It is a good sign. Sex will be better, but if only he read the book about relationship. If his happiness depends on sex, we are doomed. I can’t live in a world where sex is meaning of life.

I felt like I wanted him this morning, like I wanted to have sex with him, it felt so good when he was touching my skin. Now, writing this I cry and I don’t know again if I want him.

I need to focus on Christmas. Got some wool. Going to try to make some wool balls for decorations. Also some origami, I am bad at it but it is fun and I succeed some folds, nothing too fancy. I just want to decorate home with my girl. Enjoy my Christmas, not my mom’s Christmas, not tv Christmas, not supermarket Christmas. My calm Christmas, with no rush, with no clutter, making crafts and cookies, enjoying the candles and lights, smiling, reading Christmas stories, making snowman and angels, walking in decorated streets in the evening, having some hot wine, listening jazz, printing pictures and making photo albums, packing nicely little presents, making people happy. Without feeling bad buying some wool, or pastels, pictures cost too. I don’t want to cry when I buy a book.

I can be very invalidating. With him. I admit. My actions, face expressions, looks. I also forget to validate. Maybe yesterday instead of having conversation about feelings I should just have said I am sorry you feel that way, must be really hard. I don’t know if it is his BPD talking or he is really unhappy. It happens in relationships. But then again, people don’t want to kill themselves when they are unhappy, they are looking for healthy solutions.

He just came back from his therapy. Looked ok. Said doctor thinks he lacks excitement in life like sky diving or LSD... .I panicked and cried, who offers LSD as treatment? To someone with impulsive behaviours and addiction tendencies? Wtf?

Then he said he didn't want to make me cry. And he just need me to love him. And asked if I loved him. I couldn't answer. I don't know. I answered yes, but he said I was lying because had eyes closed and was head turned (we were hugging).

Now he is out to have a smoke.

We went to some local event where he casually said: funny thing, and I say only because doctor asked, I think it is funny, he asked if I asked you about threesome.

I look at him... .

Have I? I told him you are not interested, but have I? in recent years? (yes he had. At the beginning of relationship, and during this year the topic emerged with talks of open marriage and all), I still look at him. Yes, you have and no, I don't want. I see his eyes eager, it is not a joke for him. He really wants it. I repeated few times no, but ended up with I don't know. I left to have some drink and stared at my glass for some time, I wanted to cry... .But I was in social event full of people. I am not ready to have sex with him and he knows. We talked about it yesterday. And today. I asked him how much he tells docs about how he feels about sex. I believe he never talked to them about the time he needed it no matter what. He said he will tell next time... .So he knows how I feel, and all he cares is too check if I would be ok with threesomes... .Or foursomes... .

I think I am going to tell that it is not me he is going to have all that. But how do I tell that without depressing him. "I understand you need those things, it is important to you, I hope you 'll find someone who shares the same passions? "

DW

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

DW,

We hear you.  Thank you for sharing all that you are feeling.  About the threesome, it is important for you to act according to how you feel and your values.  Yes, you may have fear over his reaction, but it is right for you to take care of yourself.

How old is your daughter now?  Do you have any holiday traditions with her that you are looking forward to?

RC

[desperate.wife]

Thank you, Radcliff, for kind words.
I told him how I felt, he got so upset he was hiding undercovers... .Since Thursday he said that he wants to be happy, that to be happy he needs sex. One day he understands how I feel, that I need time for intimacy, I need to feel safe, yet next day he says we are living like roommates and that will never change. Part of me thinks that we shouldn't do it as long as sex=happiness for him. Dosn't seem healthy to me. Maybe I am wrong. It is always on his mind and now he is determined to please me without getting any in retour, that he offers that when I don’t want/need and yesterday I finally said yes. It ended up in big misunderstanding, which led to me being pissed, him hating himself, which led to me being deeply stressed all day. In the evening, we had conversation because stress was eating me all day. I can't go on like that, that every remark would lead him to depression, black and white thinking, overgeneralisation. I am not strong enough. I told him that. Luckily, he has read beginning of the book, and he gets the terms and I think he knows he is doing that. I also told him he that during the year he told me he was going to sleep with other people, he didn't want to try anymore and that he was attracted to me anymore. The last part he repeated a bit more than a month ago. (I didn't mention that he slept with someone). And he never told me he loved me, he wanted me, he just expects us to have sex. And I told him, I am not sure if he wants to have sex with me just because he can't have other options or because he wants me. So I said a lot, he got more upset, he felt like hiding, but he didn't. That's good. Ia sked to tell what he was thinking, he said I didn-t want to hear what he was thinking, I asked him to write it down, not keep inside. He agreed, he went to smoke, I doubt he wrote anything.

My daughter is 3. We do have traditions back in my country, but she was too little to get it. This year she is waiting for Christmas and Santa, and I am looking forward to it. I want to create new traditions just for us. I want to show her that Christmas is more than just Santa and presents and table full of food. I am not sure how yet  I hope personal dramas will not ruin this to us. I know she just needs to make few decorations, to cook pie, to light candles, decorate Christmas tree, see some smiles, hear some stories and it will be great Christmas for her. I think I can do that.

Last Christmas on December 26, he took his car, drove to some place, and was going to kill himself. But the road to the exact place was pure ice, like in a dream I had and told him about. He didn't want to get of the road and make my dream come true. 

[desperate.wife]

So, for 15 years we were ok, not great, but ok. I had my doubts, my emotional needs not being met completely, but I could say to him stuff without being afraid of saying wrong thing. He never controlled me in obvious way, no emails, phone checks, forbidding to see people, he would encourage me to see my family, always would say he likes my parents better, they are cool. After baby was born, he was helpful, but with time he became more distant, like we go for a walk and he is always on his phone with his headphones…Or when he cooks, no one can enter kitchen, he would be so stressed about it, angry even. Then he would cook with his headphones on and it is like he was not there. When someone is in the room even if you are not in conversation, but you have some remark or thought to share you start talking only to face complete ignorance: he doesn’t hear. I know now, he was filling the void. Back then it felt so lonely, I would get angry, disappointed, upset. I hated that phone. I wanted him to read Why coffee at least, I tried to talk with him about how he is always with his headphones, is he so afraid to be just with he thoughts. He is stressed, he needs to relax, not hide in the phone or stupid meaningless sport emission. He was laughing from their nonsense. So I saw something was wrong, on Lumosity I found out about mindfulness, and tried to offer it him.  I felt like he had no purpose, no identity, no values, that he needed some deepness.
Last October I started language class, and it was my first time out from staying home for 2 years. It felt good. We had more sleep, I got some social contact, I could see the light in the end of the tunnel. He was even putting our daughter to bed and succeeding to make her sleep! Such refreshment. And then, he got lot of work and my family was having some issues. He encourage me to go to be with them. It was before Christmas, meaning Christmas would be here not in my country, but I was ok with it, wanted little Christmas my way, first Christmas less tired. His work load got higher and me and my girl got ill, when time to go back approached he pushed it, saying to stay longer, he has too much work, wouldn’t be able to be with us anyway. I cried when he changed tickets, like something deeply bad was done. I wanted Christmas. I felt numb and grieving. He tells me that he did only because of work and only after his crisis began.

He got crush on a man and his bisexuality came out after 15 years of hiding. Along with depression and suicide thoughts. Depression sharpened his BPD behaviours, mostly the way he sees thinks. Black and white thinking and overgeneralisation. His self-esteem is low. If things are not as he wants, then all is bad and he has to take whole box of his medication for depression.

He told me yesterday, that he felt like taking whole box of pills. Last few days we were talking about us. After failed attempt to please me, he went all about that we should be separate. I listed options: a) stay together, work on us, get back our connection and respect then sex will be back, B) we live separately in different countries me and D3 comes for few months to stay together, he comes to visit sometimes and we spend holidays together so D3 doesn’t really feel that we are divorced. He eagerly added 3d option. We stay together but sleep with other people…I admit, the pressure of having sex was so big on me that I thought about it myself. I said, yes, it was option C and we can discuss it, see all outcomes it could bring. He said he is afraid he would fall in love. And he doesn’t want men anymore…

I was so released and actually happy, free from obligations. Don’t get me wrong I want sex, I have needs, even these days, but when it comes to sex with him, it is just too much of the baggage of last months. Self-protection maybe. I don’t know. There is just no mutual understanding, and I already went through all this over the years. Can’t start from the beginning.
As our daughter got ill again, we didn’t talk about it much more. Till yesterday. After work, he was just walking the room from one side to another. I asked what was on his mind, his face was eager. He finally succeeded telling me that we should talk about those options, meaning just option C and that it was my decision, it’s up to me. I told again that it was an option, but not the only one. Maybe it would work for starters, but not for long run. I told him that it was good solution for him and probably for  our girl, but not for me, as it leaves me here in in a village with nothing to do, no jobs that I would enjoy. I can’t even get a pen I want because going to town is complicated: one is ill, other depressed, I can’t even go to the small shop here when I want. I do feel trapped at times. But on other hand would I use those possibilities? All I really want is to enjoy the year before my D3 goes to school, to give her strong basis of my language, teach her poems of my childhood before the local language and local songs at school takes over. I want to play with her and do all kind of projects, plays. But those dark thoughts of what I can’t do now, gets me. And I fear I’d be jealous when he would go out. Not of other people but of his freedom. He’d say I would be seeing other people too, but here I don’t even have friends, when I started having some, we moved away. He always says I need to do things, have time for myself, but in the end I am always the one taking care of our girl, he does the must to do, like bringing medics, or taking to the doc, but she needs hugs and attention. And it is only me giving her that unless I demand: could you please stay five minutes with her so I can prepare medics and bed for night? One morning, after sleepless night with fever, which he heard none of, he didn’t ask how she was, how was the night, nothing. I get you take pills, you are out at night, but don’t you care if she didn’t get more ill? If we slept? You found me snoozing in living room! I told him he could’ve asked. I was pissed.  He left depressed.

Anyway. Back to yesterday. Once I told him it was not up to me, and explained him (yes, explained) what it is for me, the option C, I am eager to discuss like all other options. He went down. Telling he want to take all pills. Went to bed early. I went to check on him, saying our girl needs him. He: but I wouldn’t see her if we were to divorce…Bla Bla... He said he is going to destroy my life if we divorce (because I said I have no job experience and I am not young anymore so yes, I am scared but still think it could be good for me, he hears it would destroy me.). He also said that he’s selfish asking for option C, he didn’t want to destroy family and he’d be unhappy the rest of his life(not having sex) but he’d stay in family. Some answers from me how that is b, no one needs to be unhappy, and I wouldn’t live with him unhappy. And maybe divorce is the best option. Him: so, now you want divorce? Me: You’ve been asking for divorce since January 6. It’s you that want it. I am tired, and yes divorce might be the best option now. We don’t need to decide now. We have time till end of the year, but we need to talk about it, to talk it through. But we can’t if you get all suicidal each time when things doesn’t go your way, if it is not your option all others are just bad for you. That is not healthy and I can’t go through that. I have needs and desires but I can’t fulfil them in these circumstances. If you think that working on us for few month, half year before sex can happen (with no guaranties) is too much than go, have sex with who you want, I won’t object.
He actually cheered up, asked to watch tv show together that I discovered earlier that day: Splitting up together. I put D3 to bed and we watched. He said it was documentary. After he hugged me, he was moved by it. But he didn’t want to talk about it. He just said, how could he sleep now. After some time staying normally on his side he went back on the edge of the bed…After 3 minutes of my sleeping meditation he was out.

Is there anyone who faced that? Living normally together for years and then big change. Is there way back? If his manages his depression, things could be better. I am not sure if his depression is symptom of BPD. His elevated sex need and incapability to understand what is appropriate is because of BPD, or BPD is unrelated, just makes it harder to handle those things. Does he wants divorce or is afraid of it? Can he get better without DBT? It is unlikely he would get DBT here…He has doctor who tells him he needs LSD…
I am just trying to understand it, to hear points of views from other people. For me it is all new, it is less than a year and it is all so messed up. He is in therapy since February and no change, twice in hospital, changed doctors and still don’t have intensive therapy. He spent most of the time on sick leave, now he is back to work 50 percent, and back to talking about open marriage. Like 8 months ago…Obviously, sex is big issue here, maybe the main, why doctors don’t see it? Or am I missing something. He promised to talk about all this with his new doctor next time. Which is next week. He had no therapy this week because his doctor all booked…Can’t his doctor plan few sessions in advance? Doesn’t he see he needs it?
------------------------------------

He just messaged me: I wanted to surprise you, but I need your help. I’m in the shop, I don’t find your pen.
It’s nice gesture, but I am crying. Yes I want that pen, but more than that I want to be able to go out to buy it myself…He doesn’t get. The essential. I can’t tell him that, can I…He is trying. In a way it is good he didn’t find it and didn’t surprise me, I have time now to cry it out till he comes back and smile and be happy with his surprise…

He came back with flowers too. Flowers are nice. He gave them without saying anything. He knows it is a nice thing to do, and he did it. He is showing effort. I think he got scared yesterday. That divorce might be real. Or TV show got into him. I don’t know. I asked what’s the occasion, he said you don’t need occasion for flowers. Putting them into vase I suddenly remembered that it was our anniversary, I asked him if it was that. He looked at me, what anniversary? It’s on Easter. No, not that one, I say, not when we started dating, the one we got married 3 years ago…Remember, to pay less taxes…I think it’s today. Oh you are right, it’s today.
It was fun talk, but I don’t know how I feel about these flowers. Reading others posts, I see that it is never ending game: divorce, no divorce. I’d like to believe we can come to a decision and stick to it. Sometimes it seems he can do that, but then... .Am I just playing this game as many others? I need stability. Stable stability, not the one that one day we divorce, next day, no. It is kind of stability if it repeats all the time. But I don’t want that.

How does it looks from outside? Any thoughts? I am too caught up in situation, I am not sure I see things clearly.

[desperate.wife]

I am breaking down. One day I have clear mind, another I am crying, panicking, hiding undercovers.
One day, I am calm, having a plan, another I am sorry for all the good things we had and scared of the future.

The sex in his head everyday, and failure to understand that I need time and efforts and therapy, that I want to take it slowly made me give up. I was so relieved when we started talking options. Then I was stressed that he is still trying to be with me, but then we talked again and options were discussed. He opted for the 2 month here two months in my country option. It took time to make peace. He loves D3. He wants to see her growing, take her to school and so on. I don't have much perspectives here, and no work permit if we are divorced. No friends. So I was ok with 2 months here two moths there. As long as I don't need to stay with my parents. It was my idea. I was fin till he texted me that he is going to take night of on January to go to other town to meet divorced people in a club.

I felt bad. I asked him before if he could wait till I start my therapy next month earliest. He can't apparently.

I started thinking that I need home. 2 months here 2 there is not really home. It might be good for my girls, she wouldn't see the difference from our habits. We would go on holidays while daddy worked, go home to familiar place for her with daddy, and kitty, and holidays together... .Thinking that with time we would settle more when school starts.

But then what about me? I need a plan, I can't count on him supporting us. He would, but it is tough with money. I tried to be positive, on march when we go to my country (that was plan, I need to go for my tooth, he wanted to go along, maybe we would stay longer. till then I stay here, start therapy and some training for my back, maybe some aroma therapy class), so I said I'd do photography class not to waist time. His reaction upset me. If we have money. It would be cheap enough and if I pass I get state issued diploma saying I am photographer. I could work anywhere. I love taking pictures. It is like therapy to me. And zero support on my idea. Well.

After his therapy today he said doctor said many things with some of them he disagrees. Like the suggestion to cheat on me without telling me, so we all live together... .First LSD no this? What kind of doctor is this? Then he told, that he said as I have very low sex and he had big... .Very low?Hello!I snapped. He still doesn't get me. Doesn't see the problem, if I can't have sex with him now because I am scared means I am low sex drive... .I left the building. I might have said I couldn't anymore, I can't wait till march I need out. I do, I need to figure out what I need, what I can do, what I am capable of. I need time alone, alone from all obligations, expectations, judgments, and pity. I want to be just me an my girl. I can't do that. I had a lemonade on the bench (considered desperado, but I am a mom, I am not going to drink when I am upset), took some pictures of rotten mushrooms, hugged a tree, came back home. He is so silent. Looks guilty. Then we talk we talk, where he keeps saying he can't afford me stay alone where I want, too expensive. I said then we sign papers, and he is forced to pay a solid sum, and I  will be able to have my time out (with D3 of course, I would never leave her). He asked where is his back. I said usual place. Thought he was going to roll his joint. I stayed in bedroom. cried a bit. Her D3 talking to him.

He comes back, says: I couldn't do it. Me: what? He: take full box of pills.

I lost it. He was going to kill him self next to us? In the same room as D3? I cried, I screamed, I couldn't breath... .It scared him.

I can't live like that. With his issues. I have mine. But we have D3. And we live here less than a year. She just got used to it. Can I take her away? She needs home. How to handle this best? I feel that if I stay here I won't move forward. I won't improve. How can I grieve divorce being next to him?

I want to hate him. But I can't. He is very confused man. But with good heart. Wants to make the right thing. Would be easier if he were mean to me. We both are trapped.

I start feeling my neck is locking... .Duck that stress.

He is very honest with me. He tells everything to me, about his sessions and all. But he doesn’t get that I cry not about him. It is me and my insecurities. I need to figure who I am outside this family, and I need to do alone (with D3). But he takes as I can’t stand him, he is the problem…

[Bnonymous]

Hi desperate.wife,

It's a very complicated and painful situation. It sounds as though you are doing a lot of thinking about your needs and the needs of your daughter and how to fulfil these. And it sounds as though you're struggling to find ways to do this whilst staying in the relationship, but you can also see downsides to leaving as well. Have I understood that correctly?

One thing that is coming through very clearly in your posts is your need for stability and home. Moving around between different countries sounds very unsettling.

You want (and need) to be able to build a life for yourself and your daughter; not only is his instability an obstacle there, but the issue of not being able to settle in one place is proving a big obstacle too.

Of course you want to be able to get out and do simple things for yourself like buying a pen. It must be hell-ish and very claustrophobic to not have that opportunity.

Your photography idea sounds wonderful! It sounds like an opportunity to bring all sorts of good things to your life: pleasure, purpose, satisfaction/fulfilment, independence etc. It's a great idea for you and I really hope that you pursue it.

I don't have issues around sex with my BPD boyfriend, but I did have them with my ASD ex-husband. We tried the open marriage thing. That is, open for him, not for me, as I didn't want to have sex outside the marriage - I just didn't want the pressure and obligation of either I meet those needs of his or they go unmet. I saw it as a way of freeing us both from an issue that was killing our relationship. It didn't work for us. Partly, because I failed to realise at the time that he wanted sex with emotional connection; if I couldn't provide that, the only genuine way for him to get it elsewhere was by us ending the marriage and him seeking a new relationship. In the end, that's what we did. But the "open marriage" idea can and does work for many couples if it is genuinely an answer that both are comfortable with. Are you comfortable with it or are you feeling pressured to agree to it?

It sounds as though you are currently thinking about what you and your daughter need and whether or not there is a way for those needs to be met without ending your relationship. Here's a question: if you didn't have to think about him, if the relationship was already over, how would you live? For example, would you want to live full-time in your own country?

I'd say first, identify your needs and how you want to live in ways that are fulfilling, nurturing, and authentic for you. Then look at whether or not there are ways to do that in the relationship.

But, honestly, it sounds as though you are already doing this. It sounds as though you are a bit of a crisis/crossroads point in your life right now and are doing a lot of deep and important thinking about where and how you want to live from now. I think you are finding the answers yourself and don't actually need much guidance from us. But I want you to know that people are listening and you're not alone.

The suicide issue is concerning and is something that needs addressing separately, I think. I hope that other members and staff with more experience than I have will come along and offer you advice on how to handle that.

[desperate.wife]

Hi, Bnonymous   

Thank you so much for replying, it means a lot to me. So much in fact, that scares me. A simple conversation with a stranger can change a day. And it did, ever since I read your answer. I didn't reply immediately, I was avoiding thinking about my stuff. I just wanted to enjoy as normal weekend as possible. And succeeded more or less, local Christmas market with concerts and stories for kids, yoga for kids and parents. It actually felt normal. Like we can make it together... .Why can't always be like this... .It is messing my mind again.

It's a very complicated and painful situation. It sounds as though you are doing a lot of thinking about your needs and the needs of your daughter and how to fulfil these. And it sounds as though you're struggling to find ways to do this whilst staying in the relationship, but you can also see downsides to leaving as well. Have I understood that correctly?

Yes. You have amazing gift: to read the mess and understand it  I was in very bad shape when I wrote last post.

One thing that is coming through very clearly in your posts is your need for stability and home. Moving around between different countries sounds very unsettling.

You want (and need) to be able to build a life for yourself and your daughter; not only is his instability an obstacle there, but the issue of not being able to settle in one place is proving a big obstacle too.

It is true, I do want home. And 2 months here 2 moths there sounds fun at the beginning, but truth is I get tired, I start settling and then I have to leave behind everything, take few clothes, but the ones I leave she outgrows soon. In 3 years old life 2 month is a lot. Surely if I had my apartment, would be better, could travel just with cabin lugged. Till she starts school, then it wouldn't be possible and things would settle. But I struggle separating her from dad. 

Of course you want to be able to get out and do simple things for yourself like buying a pen. It must be hell-ish and very claustrophobic to not have that opportunity.

I was thinking about that since I read your reply. I was really upset about that pen, I couldn’t think straight. All I could think was that I can't get out. He was going to smoke and would ask what to get from shop. And after 4 days I realized that I haven't been outside for 4 days, while he is going 6-8 times a day, I am nursing our ill daughter. So I was upset. Obsessed with that pen. All I had to do to wait for better timming. Yes it is isolated location, but it has it's pluses. I just fixed on the idea that I can't get out.  Maybe the same happens in his head about sex? On Friday we had big conversation, that started with me crying because watching tv with him felt normal, and I was just getting sentimental that it is over. He was like, I didn't do anything and you are still crying. He was confused, so I explained, that I still have doubts, and we did have good times (I haven't told anyone about divorce, he told everyone). We talked and talked till it came back to sex. He said but we didn't have sex since April. Once again I went through facts: till June we had sex it was great, just he was obsessing more and more, not controlling himself, but then one night he suddenly didn’t want me. We tried few times, he had no pleasure. After he has cheated, we did have sex twice. Once he still didn't want me, other it was all about him. Then I left for two months and came back in September. Quite willing to reconnect and not hostile, but hit the wall. He went to hospital, in meeting with all doctors and me he said he doesn’t want me. Since then he didn't showed any interest in me, got ill, wouldn't take care of himself, have either full nose or leaking, sneezing coughing (not sexy), D3 got ill, while still being ill he out of nowhere starts talking things like "we would be having sex if I was not ill"... .So, his answer? We still didn't have sex since July... .I do want to hit my head in the wall, Skip's lesson about distress is right on time, very helpful. Thank you.
But I guess I can understand his obsession about sex, it just bother me that he refuses to work on it, help himself. I am even thinking, what if we had sex (he is still ill, I can't stand leaking noses). Maybe then he would be reassured, would feel better? Am I predicting future, thinking he will want more and more like before? I understand his thinking (I think), but I don't know how to handle it.

Your photography idea sounds wonderful! It sounds like an opportunity to bring all sorts of good things to your life: pleasure, purpose, satisfaction/fulfilment, independence etc. It's a great idea for you and I really hope that you pursue it.

Will see in march 

I don't have issues around sex with my BPD boyfriend, but I did have them with my ASD ex-husband. We tried the open marriage thing. That is, open for him, not for me, as I didn't want to have sex outside the marriage - I just didn't want the pressure and obligation of either I meet those needs of his or they go unmet. I saw it as a way of freeing us both from an issue that was killing our relationship. It didn't work for us. Partly, because I failed to realise at the time that he wanted sex with emotional connection; if I couldn't provide that, the only genuine way for him to get it elsewhere was by us ending the marriage and him seeking a new relationship. In the end, that's what we did. But the "open marriage" idea can and does work for many couples if it is genuinely an answer that both are comfortable with. Are you comfortable with it or are you feeling pressured to agree to it?

I feel like I would be happier if I wouldn't need to feel constant pressure, even if it is imaginary sometimes. I don't think that without a therapy I can solve this dilemma. He is saying that sex is just sex, no feelings. He just have urges. I do have to those urges, but I need to be emotionally save to fulfil them with a person, otherwise it is just urge, can satisfy it my self. Like we deal with hunger or full bladder. The last few weeks showed that I am not really ok with this open marriage thing, mainly because I am not as independent and strong as I wished to be. And it would be one-sided open marriage as well. If I happened to meet someone, it wouldn't be just for sex.


Can I ask you personal question? While in open marriage, have you still been intimate with your ex? I am struggling to see that we still could do things; even he says he could still satisfy my needs... .

It sounds as though you are currently thinking about what you and your daughter need and whether or not there is a way for those needs to be met without ending your relationship. Here's a question: if you didn't have to think about him, if the relationship was already over, how would you live? For example, would you want to live full-time in your own country?

I am thinking a lot about it. I could live there, mostly because I miss theatre  But I got used to foreign mentality, to wonderful views and milder weather. If I were alone, I would try to go to the one place where I truly feel good without any pens . But with a kid. It would be easier with all family around.

I'd say first, identify your needs and how you want to live in ways that are fulfilling, nurturing, and authentic for you. Then look at whether or not there are ways to do that in the relationship.

That's very good advice. I guess it is most confusing thing. I need to find my way. He might not wait until I find it. That night when we watched tv show, an then all weekend that was pretty nice (because it was active, we did things separately, and together all family), felt like I don't want to ruin that. I was even attracted to him. Maybe I am over reacting about sex. But then in a happy good moment he imitated how I was holding my hands and my mood was going down, I stopped it, saying to myself that it was nothing. He apologized. But... .
You are right, I need to figure out what I want for myself. It is a bit complicated when I can't get distance from current situation. Will see after Christmas.

Strange thing happened last Saturday. I was in writing workshop, where teacher has these inner child fairy tale cards that you need to pick one thinking about one question. It is a game. But it is fun. Thinking divorce and what to do I picked a card and I got Sleeping beauty death card, Which means new beginning. Questions of the card: what is waiting in future and what you need to abandon to get there…

But, honestly, it sounds as though you are already doing this. It sounds as though you are a bit of a crisis/crossroads point in your life right now and are doing a lot of deep and important thinking about where and how you want to live from now. I think you are finding the answers yourself and don't actually need much guidance from us. But I want you to know that people are listening and you're not alone.

Well, sometimes I do seek advice, or another point of view, but just to have friendly unbiased conversation is magic. Otherwise, I keep asking myself, why do I write here? I can write to myself if I don’t expect an answer. I haven’t told anybody about divorce talks. Everything changes so often I don’t want to tire them with this.
I like reading your posts, they are always so thoughtful. My mind is so messy, and writing here takes lot of time and energy. And I cry when I write or read answers, so I need to be alone, to do it. Doesn’t happen often.

Ok. I am off to bed. Little one is ill again, who knows how much sleep I’ll get tonight.

[Bnonymous]

Hi desperate.wife,

I'm really glad to hear you had a good weekend. I understand about how the good days can also bring sadness and frustration in wishing it could be that way always. Try to just take them for what they are and be fully in those happy, peaceful moments, without letting the past or future come in and spoil them for you. It is sad that they're not indicative of how things are all the time, but they're valuable in themselves, and it sounds like you know that and are gifted at making the most of them. 

I am even thinking, what if we had sex (he is still ill, I can't stand leaking noses). Maybe then he would be reassured, would feel better? Am I predicting future, thinking he will want more and more like before? I understand his thinking (I think), but I don't know how to handle it.

You might be right - it might reassure him and help him feel better. But, then, it might not. And you also (primarily) need to consider how it would make you feel.

It sounds like you're very undecided about the relationship as a whole. What you said about crying over the normality of watching tv together sounds as though you're already beginning to grieve.

I think sex might be emotionally difficult and confusing for you right now. If it goes well, is mutually enjoyable and tender, then sex is a bonding experience. I reckon it's likely to be confusing to do something that tightens emotional bonds at the same time as part of you is trying to loosen them and let go.

If you can let go of any expectations (on either side) for what having sex would mean for the future, then maybe try it next time you are both feeling willing, and see how things are then. But if you feel that either of you would go into it with expectations or assign meanings to it, then maybe wait a while longer till you're clearer in your mind and heart about what it is that you want.

I feel like I would be happier if I wouldn't need to feel constant pressure, even if it is imaginary sometimes. I don't think that without a therapy I can solve this dilemma. He is saying that sex is just sex, no feelings. He just have urges. I do have to those urges, but I need to be emotionally save to fulfil them with a person, otherwise it is just urge, can satisfy it my self. Like we deal with hunger or full bladder. The last few weeks showed that I am not really ok with this open marriage thing, mainly because I am not as independent and strong as I wished to be. And it would be one-sided open marriage as well. If I happened to meet someone, it wouldn't be just for sex.

Can I ask you personal question? While in open marriage, have you still been intimate with your ex? I am struggling to see that we still could do things; even he says he could still satisfy my needs... .

I really deeply get where you're coming from here.

When me and ex-h tried an open marriage, we weren't intimate during that time. Like you, I would not really want a "just sex" arrangement with anyone, and so it was a one-sided open marriage for me and ex-h. The thing is, I need emotional intimacy for sexual intimacy. I couldn't have sex with my ex-h in the last years of the marriage, because the emotional intimacy was gone. I couldn't have had sex with someone "on the side" because there would have been no emotional intimacy there either. What I didn't realise was that he actually felt that way too.

I thought he wanted sex without emotional intimacy (so I thought "he can get it elsewhere then"). He thought I wanted emotional intimacy without sex. In reality, both of us wanted a relationship: we wanted emotional and sexual intimacy combined (but we were no longer able to give that to each other). It took a long time for us to be honest enough with ourselves and each other to admit to this, because we knew what it meant: it meant the marriage was over.

It might be different for you though (and I hope it is). Only you can decide whether or not you and your husband have a chance of going forward together and being able to meet each other's needs.

But, whichever way you decide to jump, it doesn't sound like an open marriage would work in your situation either (for some similar reasons to mine and some different ones). From what you say, I think you would need clarity in order to go forward: either the two of you working on building your relationship with each other or letting go and, in time, building a relationship with someone else. I think the "open marriage" arrangement would just end up adding more instability and confusion for you, and would feel a bit like this two-months-here, two-months-there living arrangement does. What do you think? Have I understood correctly?

I think it's good that you're identifying that you're not really okay with the idea anyway. It's definitely not something to try unless both parties are totally sure about it - if either party isn't completely comfortable with such an arrangement, then it would likely do a lot more harm to the relationship than good.

Strange thing happened last Saturday. I was in writing workshop, where teacher has these inner child fairy tale cards that you need to pick one thinking about one question. It is a game. But it is fun. Thinking divorce and what to do I picked a card and I got Sleeping beauty death card, Which means new beginning. Questions of the card: what is waiting in future and what you need to abandon to get there…

Gosh, what a strange little synchronicity! It sounds like that chimes very well with how you've been thinking and feeling recently.

[desperate.wife]

You are right Bnonymous, I am confused about this relationship. Partly because I don't know if he is truly unhappy with me and separation would be best or is it just his depression and BPD and it is the package that will always be with him. Another thing that is bothering, that we would live in different countries, and for our D3 to have both parents equally available would be impossible. And I know how much she misses him after a month at my family. More than she misses grandparents (who she misses a lot). I am unhappy and angry and it is not me, I am not angry person. I am stressed by this uncertainty. But I need to know I did everything to safe the family. For D3.

My husband went to see therapist last week, he said he had no idea what to say... .I told him tell everything we talked about and that he wanted to take box of pills. Before therapy he texted me to go through all the topics... .Felt strange to tell him what to talk with therapist... .Anyway, after therapist told him that he had more clear view, that divorce is not our primary choice and we would still like to save relationship. He also said he saw semi obsessive behaviour about sex and increased his meds again... .Suggested we see sexologist together and encouraged me to say when I don't want sex and him to work on not being upset about it. Sounds good. He also told him to keep things away from me to protect me. It is strange. 15 years he was honest about everything and now he keeps stuff. It is hard for him, he wants to tell me everything. Maybe it is better, what’s the point to tell me if it upsets me and solves nothing. Makes him feel better, till next time... .

We agreed to put our issues away for some time. I don't want to ruin Christmas. It was going ok. Had nice times. Packed and send little presents. Cooked Christmas cookies.  But he started saying he is not happy. At work it's fine, but not at  home. He saw therapist again yesterday and got medics dosage increased again. He talked to his friends yesterday and they think I am taking D3 away and he should go to another country so he wouldn't need to pay as much to us... .It upset me so much, they are good people, but they see me as bad guy. I fallowed him where he moved, I didn't do career and all friends I made I had to leave behind each time we moved. I didn't cheat and I didn't ask for divorce. I have nothing; I have to start from 0. And they tell him to move to another country to pay less for his daughter... .My husband disagrees with his friends, at least about the second half. He wants to pay, right now he can't. The best would be if we could stay in separate apartments. But it is almost impossible here. We could stay living in the same apartment, just live separate lives but that would be truly complicated. It is only 2 bedrooms apartment, one for D3, one for us. Sure, there's sofa in living room. Another problem is that there's nothing here and poor connection with towns. I would get jealous when he starts going out, and I couldn’t.

Thank you, Bnonymous, for sharing your experience. I think for open marriage to work the couple has to be very strong, enjoy each other and both to have the same desire to have experiences elsewhere. That requires lot of self-confidence, which I don't have yet.
If I tell him that for me an open marriage it is just beginning of the end, he stops asking for it. So he is not really wanting divorce. But I guess it is only because he doesn’t want to loose D3. And I don't want separate them.

I ordered him little personalised gift. I doubt he will appreciate it. It is not big and expensive. He bought himself newest smartwatch, I bought myself some tea I drink everyday and half of it goes under tree, also got new deo as I am finishing old one. Goes under tree too. And a book for self-therapeutic artistic activity. Wanted a novel, but no money so I didn't buy it. He asked if I bough that novel. I said it's ok, I have tee and deo. His reaction? So you get two presents and me only one? How can I not cry... .I don't mind not getting big presents. I got huge present on my birthday and he got only t shirt from me. But his reaction... .He asked if he can put coca under tree. I get he can't help it. It is part of his condition. But it upsets me. I could get oranges or chocolates and pack them one by one, but he wouldn't appreciate the gesture, why bother?

For 26 of December he asked to get a cake. To celebrate the day he didn't kill himself for the first time.

I don't know how to talk to him. To say I understand how you feel, or say get your ___ together. To give him space or to cover with attention? Nothing works long term.

As things were calm, I felt better and once watch tv show I felt like kissing him and hugging. He seemed enjoying it. I just went with the feeling. At some point he pushed computer away and touched my butt and boob but that’s it. He stopped. We finished watching and left to pick up our girl. Next day I asked about it. He said he liked it, but when I asked about being afraid to touch me, he didn't answer. I didn't push it. Don't want to ruin Christmas.

I try not to have expectations what sex would mean. It would be great if we both could enjoy it for starters. If we are to try (and last week he seemed like he wants to try) we need to start somewhere.

Yesterday he talked more about divorce just this time he was talking about coming to see us every two month, maybe going to the sea together. This would be better for me, but D3 would get less to see daddy.

I would like to ask him if we are trying to work it out or no but I prefer to wait after Christmas. I don't think he knows himself. I don't know. When I feel calm it feels so real, that I am ok with whatever, open marriage, trying to safe relationship, when I am down it is as real that I want out. Which one is true feeling? But I can stick to a plan and work with it if we decide to try and I feel he tries too. Hardest is that he changes his mood every other day.

I sound like a broken record. I know.

D.W.

[Bnonymous]

You are right Bnonymous, I am confused about this relationship. Partly because I don't know if he is truly unhappy with me and separation would be best or is it just his depression and BPD and it is the package that will always be with him.

Whether the relationship is best for him or not is for him to figure out, not you. I mean that in the nicest possible way. Over the course of my life, I have seen so many people wonder whether they're good for their partner, whether they're what their partner really wants, whether their partner would be better if they parted etc. And I have seen them struggle to carry the weight of that responsibility. And I have seen them lose sight of what they want, what's good for them etc.

So I always tell people now to put that heavy bag down, because it isn't theirs to carry. Let your husband figure out what's best for him and take care of his own happiness. Keep your focus on you.

It's totally understandable that you feel unhappy and angry and stressed by the uncertainty. I get that it is very hard to throw yourself into working on a relationship when you feel that the other person might have one foot out of the door. For now, he is still here and you are still here and you both keep coming back to talk of trying to save the relationship. And, what's more, you're doing things to that end; he is seeing his therapist and the two of you are considering going to see a sexologist to work on that side of things. This is all positive.

If he ever decides for definite that he wants out completely and permanently, you can cross that bridge when you come to it (*if* you come to it). In the meantime, let him carry the weight of his indecision. Listen to him, empathise with him and validate him, but don't try to predict or second-guess or keep up with him. Let him figure out what he wants - ultimately, he's the only one who can.

It seems you have a clearer picture on what you want now. You want to know that you did everything you can to save the family for your daughter's sake. So focus on that. Focus on doing what you can, because knowing that you did will mean a lot to you whatever he eventually decides - even if he ends up leaving the relationship at some point, you would then have the comfort of knowing you did all you could and you would also be able to carry with you everything you learn from your efforts - it wouldn't be wasted.

I don't know how to talk to him. To say I understand how you feel, or say get your ___ together. To give him space or to cover with attention? Nothing works long term.

I'd focus on listening for now. And mix space with attention/affection. Think of how you are with your daughter when in the garden or at the park. She's at that age now where she'll be exploring her environment a bit more independently, but frequently checking that you're still there and taking reassurance from that. The way that she knows you're there if she needs you will be giving her the confidence to test and build her own skills and abilities. Maybe try to strike a similar, grown-up-version of that balance with your husband?

I would like to ask him if we are trying to work it out or no but I prefer to wait after Christmas. I don't think he knows himself. I don't know. When I feel calm it feels so real, that I am ok with whatever, open marriage, trying to safe relationship, when I am down it is as real that I want out. Which one is true feeling? But I can stick to a plan and work with it if we decide to try and I feel he tries too. Hardest is that he changes his mood every other day.

Yeah, wait till after Christmas. I think part of your confusion in not knowing what you truly feel is that you're kind of in the passenger seat as he drives his emotions all over the place. See if you can separate your emotions and needs from his (as much as is realistically possible in a marriage). You don't have to change your mood (or your mind) when he changes his. You can decide what you said earlier: that you are going to work on your side of saving the marriage for as long as that is still an option, if that's what you want to do.

What do you think?

[Radcliff]

I really like what Bnonymous is saying about relieving yourself of the burden to make a decision now.  You and he are both in it, and are doing work to help things.  I also like what she said about concentrating on your feelings, and empathize with you about how tough it can be to figure out our true feelings when we feel great when things are going well, and very down when they are not.

You talked about finding a place to start with sexual intimacy.  Are you both able to exchange non-sexual physical touch?  Cuddles, shoulder rubs, hand massages, things like that?

RC

[desperate.wife]

I wrote first part of this post well before Christmas and was hesitating weather I should still post it. Well I still think and feel all those things even lot of happened after I wrote it.

Whether the relationship is best for him or not is for him to figure out, not you. I mean that in the nicest possible way. Over the course of my life, I have seen so many people wonder whether they're good for their partner, whether they're what their partner really wants, whether their partner would be better if they parted etc. And I have seen them struggle to carry the weight of that responsibility. And I have seen them lose sight of what they want, what's good for them etc.

So I always tell people now to put that heavy bag down, because it isn't theirs to carry. Let your husband figure out what's best for him and take care of his own happiness. Keep your focus on you.

Wow. It is a heavy bag to carry. I have been thinking about this for few days now. I understand he is responsible for him and his actions and all I can do is take care of my side of things. However, it is so easy to lose that focus. I think there is some pattern in the way I feel about relationship. When he is vulnerable, I want to safe him. When he is trying to be in a relationship, I start thinking what I want and that what he does is not enough for me, I become resentful. Then I see my D3 room, or the view by the lake, or my closet that is finally like I wished for years, hear how they can play nicely (even if it is for 10 minutes) or we do something normal again and I don't want to lose it. I need to focus on me. Today all day I was repeating that I needed to do things for D3 and me. Few times I got carried away. I took relaxing bath, and kept thinking about what you've said. I can't make him want to stay. Focus on me. Day at a time. What I am most afraid, I guess, is that will be my life. Not being sure. Him wanting to go, not wanting, me wanting to leave but staying. I can't live like that for years. Soon, it will be a year that all this has started and it broke me. I guess I wished to start New Year with clear leave.

Listen to him, empathise with him and validate him, but don't try to predict or second-guess or keep up with him. Let him figure out what he wants - ultimately, he's the only one who can.

Good advice Bnonymous, I will try to remember it. Since beginning of summer he is doing just that, thinking about what he wants. I hope he can decide one day and be happy with decision.

It seems you have a clearer picture on what you want now. You want to know that you did everything you can to save the family for your daughter's sake. So focus on that. Focus on doing what you can, because knowing that you did will mean a lot to you whatever he eventually decides - even if he ends up leaving the relationship at some point, you would then have the comfort of knowing you did all you could and you would also be able to carry with you everything you learn from your efforts - it wouldn't be wasted.

Focus on what I can. I need to print that and stick it on my glasses  I tend to focus on what I can't.  Not all the time, fortunately

I'd focus on listening for now. And mix space with attention/affection. Think of how you are with your daughter when in the garden or at the park. She's at that age now where she'll be exploring her environment a bit more independently, but frequently checking that you're still there and taking reassurance from that. The way that she knows you're there if she needs you will be giving her the confidence to test and build her own skills and abilities. Maybe try to strike a similar, grown-up-version of that balance with your husband?

It does. It is easy with my daughter  Not so much with him. Maybe because I need to test new waters too and need someone to have my back. That someone supposed to be him. He was never good at it, but now... .I will try to do it, just afraid then my defence mechanism switches on and I become indifferent towards him. I would like to be this wise person, who can accept, know, see things, understand them and let them be. Maybe one day

Yeah, wait till after Christmas. I think part of your confusion in not knowing what you truly feel is that you're kind of in the passenger seat as he drives his emotions all over the place. See if you can separate your emotions and needs from his (as much as is realistically possible in a marriage). You don't have to change your mood (or your mind) when he changes his. You can decide what you said earlier: that you are going to work on your side of saving the marriage for as long as that is still an option, if that's what you want to do

I will wait. But it is going to be not that easy with all free days. He feels so lost at home. It doesn't feel family. He does what I say, but it is not teamwork. He seems surprised about things I like for Christmas, like it is our first Christmas. Families I know do things together, plan, enjoy, and participate. Well we are not like families I know, and that was always missing for me, but I have to accept that, if I want to have happy family for D3.

You talked about finding a place to start with sexual intimacy.  Are you both able to exchange non-sexual physical touch?  Cuddles, shoulder rubs, hand massages, things like that?

RC

Thank you, Radclif. We do hug, sometimes we feel need to, sometimes for D3. He doesn’t like to be touched, it irritates him. So he is not good in just gentle touches. Massages? I have to beg for them (that even on our good times). He does it but he forces himself. And it felt that all cuddling has to end with sex. In general, non sexual touches is missing for me. Sometimes it feels like a huge favour. Once this spring I asked for shoulders rub, they were tensed. He refused rudely saying, I would want more and more. I haven't asked again after that. Even if he do something like that, I can't relax because I can see he is waiting till he can stop. He understands we need such things, but it doesn’t come naturally.

Today I walked on him 3 times watching porn. Third time I got upset because it was time D3 could come to say goodnight. When he asked if I was upset and I told it is fine, just that it was third time today, he was surprised. Well, yes, in the morning, afternoon, and now... .And those meds should reduce his needs... .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holidays went well. I asked not to ruin them and he didn’t. Best behaviour. He tried really hard. Did all I asked.

He was anxious, though. On 26 was his year anniversary when he was driving to kill himself. And he told would take the medic that calms him, when he is anxious. I told him I was happy he doesn’t have it and made it clear that me and D3 would not stay around if he takes theses pills. He doesn’t remember much from the months when he was taking them. He was in pilot mode. Scary. And he was driving my family around, who he doesn’t remember had stayed with us. I made him hot relaxing bath with sea salt few times. Seemed to help. As he doesn’t remember much from time he was taking those pills he asked me to write down that was happening with him to share with his doctor.

New Year eve was full of surprises. Day we spent actively, so I was tired and I had to prepare all for our little party. He was on his phone not caring about his surroundings. I got angry because I was tired and had so much to do. Well not that much, but when you only dream about the bed it seems a lot. Anyway, he helped, I cooked dinner and pie, dressed for the occasion, got D3 nice dress. She was very very happy, enjoyed it so much. She put music, we danced, we had confetti and those sticks that you lit and it sparkles little stars all around. So it is then that he said that he was kinda eager to shave his beard! He had it since march maybe. And for me it is depression beard. He never had one before. I don’t like beards. But I accepted it. And here he was, shaving it! I saw him without and wow. My man is back! Young and happy. We met New Year in bed, it wasn’t very great but we did it and we wanted it. He couldn’t finish: medics make it hard for him.
He is upset about beard; he misses it, doesn’t recognise himself in the mirror, and thinks that his nose looks bigger without it. Thursday he told me he feels happy, because I am happy, and that we did things on New Year reassures him. He was playing with D3 and he said he was really enjoying not faking it.

Yesterday he forgot his morning pill…That means he is down for few days…I told him that it seems he wants to forget pills as all he needs to put reminder on the phone and have some pills in his bag and he doesn’t do that.

I got another treat: he is not smoking for at least a month. It is the same thing with his beard. He made a deal: he buys computer and he doesn’t smoke and shaves till it arrives. The second he bought it I felt bad. Like I caved in again, we don’t have money to buy computers that is only for pleasure, for hobby. We don’t need it. But he seemed interested again in something else than porn…And no smokes and beard for a month or two…Can change our relationship to good. I really feel happier seeing him shaved. It is like magic! I had no idea it bothered me so much. I can see him smile now.  A bit afraid how he would handle not smoking as he started it not to take those antistress pills.

But New Year started rather happily, and how do they say: good start is half job done.

Happy 2019 everyone!
How was your holidays?

[Bnonymous]

Hi desperate.wife,

It's good to see you here! 

Thanks for the update. It all sounds pretty positive. I'm glad your daughter had a lovely New Year and I'm pleased to hear that you and your husband managed to connect intimately again - who would have guessed a razor would be the answer? 

My holidays were surprisingly good, thanks. PwBPD is having a crisis (due to being the victim of a crime), but has been reaching out to me lovingly, rather than pushing me away or taking out on me. So the holidays had the loving closeness and peace that I dream of. I've tend to find over my life that the less I expect of the holidays, the better they turn out to be.

I hope things continue to go in the right direction for you. Do keep us updated.

[desperate.wife]

Hi everyone,

Bnonymous, great to hear your hollidays went well  It is important to have thoses moments, to charge positive energy  Hope it continues well for you  

Holiday charm is wearing of here, but still we are trying. After New Year, we had sex twice. First was ok, I was not burning in passion and it hurt me in the beginning but I did enjoy it, I smiled, touched his back, and kissed him. I was not screaming from pleasure. Just enjoying the intimate moment. He didn't finish. Medics. Next day he mentioned that I was too silent for him, like I was not enjoying. I told him what I felt, and that it was little steps. Then I had my cycle, but I tried to satisfy him other ways (unsuccessfully. medics). He became sad. He said he was afraid that the effect of him shaving his beard was going away. It is tiring to keep reassuring him. I can't feel tired, he thinks immediately that I am not happy and becomes depressed. I have to cheerfully great him, hug, and smile all the time.

Few days ago, he became more depressed, saying it was dangerous level of him feeling unhappy. I did flirt with him, showing hints to wanting sex tonight. He said something like ok, if it is like this, I can live like that. So we had sex, I was more noisy, it was better, he still didn't finish. Medics. Last morning found him watching porn in bed. I joined with my toy, he seemed exited but no ending for him. I am trying.

He is spending little sums even though we reached the limit, we can't spend more. I lost control of our spending again... .February will be hard.

Last weekend we went to shop away from home and visited a little beautiful town. It went well, had great time. Just few things: when I said I am taking pictures you take care of D3, he said he was too much heavy medicated to do that. And after 30 minutes of exploring town he was losing his patience, getting irritated, wanting home. It is always like that, used to make me upset. Now I get it more. I try just to enjoy ignoring his irritation. We need to plan better. I need to communicate better what’s going to happen next on a trip. And ask him what would be comfortable for him.

He still keeps his promise to shave and not smoke. Well, he smokes ones a day when home (more at work). He occasionally asks to smoke more. One time is already more than we agreed, but he still tries. Once he asked for second time. I said today two times, tomorrow you ask 3. He admitted it was true. Didn't ask again. Few days ago he messaged me to let him to smoke at home, he was feeling bad. I didn't reply. It is upsetting to me. We have a deal, and then he is begging for me to let him do something. Makes me feel guilty, bad. When he came back, he asked again. I said: why are you asking me? We have a deal, it is up to you to keep it or not. He was not happy, but said he would keep the deal. I am just worrying he is taking more pills because he can't smoke. Should I let him smoke?

Yesterday he took 3 times the dosage prescribed. And beers. I don't know how to react. It is not first time he took extra pill, but 3? To feel numb he sais. He asked some colleague to give him a lift to sports on Monday as our car stays with me. The reply was upsetting: she told him he was making him nervous and she needs to concentrate while driving. He feels now like a burden to colleagues. I told him she was honest, it sucks, but other colleague gives him ride to work on Mondays so not everyone thinks like her. I was not empathetic enough, we didn't talk much more about it, I don't know if I should bring it again? If I do, or he does how do I talk about it, to reassure him?

[Radcliff]

I'm glad that you had some good times over the holidays and that there have been some positive developments.  On the smoking, I like how you put it -- you made a deal with him, and it is up to him to keep it or not.  You shouldn't place yourself, or let him place you, in the position of being responsible for his smoking.  That's his responsibility.

Regarding the driving, watch out for ownership here as well.  He is making his colleague uncomfortable enough that she doesn't want to drive him.  I wouldn't try to soothe him too much over this so that he thinks it's her problem and not his.  I wouldn't raise the issue to him.  If he brings it up, the safest bet is simply to listen with empathy and validate his emotions.

RC 

[desperate.wife]

Thank you, Radcliff, for your advices. Sorry for taking my time to reply, viruses attacking my kingdom...

I kept telling him the same thing about smoking each time he asked for permission, which he did every day. Now computer arrived, but yesterday he asked for permission again

I didn't ask any more about that driving to sports incident. I wanted though. Just to know whether that colleague was friend of THE colleague or not, whether it was personal or she felt uneasy because he has mental issues (as side effect of his medics he is walking rounds for hours). But I didn't.

Few days ago, he told me he took 3 times more pills than he should. That his heart rate was very high, he felt weak, he gave his pills to his boss just so he wouldn't take more than prescribed. Later, he told me he doesn't want to hurt me, but he wants to tell me why he took more pills.
Remember, he says, how you were jealous, when I was smiling to the texts of THE colleague? I was in love with her. And she is ignoring me, like just to pass by me makes her feel bad, like she would prefer I was not there. That rejection I can't take. So I took more pills. I am sorry, I understand if you want divorce. How do you feel?

hmmm. I am not sure. I don't think it changes anything. I mean if he had told me that half year ago, sure, but now? He was in love with a man, he slept with a girl, he told he didn't want me since May to November, asked for divorce N times, was ready to go to meet sex partners on January 4th... .And that colleague, yes was all the time an issue. It was strange how she has this effect on him, he was jealous of hers sex adventures, he went to hospital because she blocked him. He always said she was friend that understood what he is going through; she was there when he needed. I saw how unstable she is, blocking him/ talking to him, she has her own serious psychological problems and she was not helping him to be stable. He would always tell me there's nothing romantic between them and never would be. I saw once a text he has sent to her asking if he were single could it happen her and him... .But what really hurt me was when in Paris he bought two cat sculptures for her. It used to be my thing.  He used to by them to me. But he bought them for her. To thank for support. That, there and then, hurt more than anything did that year. He managed to make me feel bad for being upset about that. Him telling me that I was right to be jealous because he was in love after all, doesn't matter. After everything that happened, we lost connection and we are trying to reconnect.
 
He doesn't want divorce, he is sorry that I am stuck with him. How do I talk with him about that rejection feeling? I need him to get better, and he comes to me. Is telling me this is his way asking for help, or is he just trying to ease his guilt, waiting for me to say it is ok?

He is suffering and confused, he was not well all year. He doesn't remember half of the things, I am not even sure he was really in love with her, or idea of different relationship with a girl who sleeps with everyone. Was he jealous that she slept with all those people because he wanted to do it himself or because he wanted her for himself? Why each time he was jealous, he told me? He also told me, that me meeting doctors in hospital had one condition, that we wouldn't talk about THE colleague. I guess this tells me there was more on the topic than I knew. Should I bring this subject again? Or let it slide. It has been two days that he is in bed, and I am not sure if he got virus, flu or he is stressed and depressed. Both I think.

I was not attracted to him for some time. He was not smiling anymore. And few times we had sex it didn't feel like he enjoyed much. How I would like to restore relationship, without having sex! To feel safe and wanted, to be happy to see him. 

Last Christmas (2017) I was thinking that maybe we should end it, long distance was awful (I know now he was already very depressed), we had nothing in common. When he asked then if I wanted divorce, I thought for a short while and said no. But right there right then, I had a way out, he was in love with a guy, not diagnosed with anything yet, no guilt, and I was thinking about it. And I got scared, I was not ready, and therefore I had the worst year of my life (emotionally). Maybe I wanted to rescue him like at the beginning of our relationship. He was like lost puppy.

Are we working it out or just postponing inevitable?

D.W.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear how badly it felt for you when he bought the cats for his colleague.  You have been there for him.  That must have hurt to not be acknowledged for it.

It sounds as if he doesn't clearly remember everything that happened, and is not able to think well about the future -- would you say he's living in today, and has trouble thinking about what happened in the past or might happen in the future?  You want to know how he feels about you.  Of course, you want his feelings to be steady, but he is all over the place.  I'm sorry for this, it's such a difficult place for you to be.

Can you summarize the treatment he is receiving?  Does he see a therapist on a regular basis?

RC

[desperate.wife]

I'm sorry to hear how badly it felt for you when he bought the cats for his colleague.  You have been there for him.  That must have hurt to not be acknowledged for it.

Just few days ago before that he had slept with some patient in hospital. And day before was my birthday. It was upsetting. I am sure he wouldn't remember this, if I asked.

It sounds as if he doesn't clearly remember everything that happened, and is not able to think well about the future -- would you say he's living in today, and has trouble thinking about what happened in the past or might happen in the future? 

I am not sure he is living in today. He would be happy then, according to all mindfulness stuff. He remembers just things he wants to. I don't know. He doesn't remember my parents were here, that our D3 has little problem with teeth and he himself called the dentist more than half year ago (few weeks ago he got all worried, like seeing the problem for first time), he doesn't remember I drove for first time since I was pregnant and that we went to zoo. He thinks he was good daddy, taking her away for walks, zoo, and giving me free time (yes he did that, but not last year.) Last year is blurry for him. And it was scary time for me. As for future, for now he wants to see D3 growing up, and be part of her life. He also is upset because that means no free sex life. Sometimes he wants that everything would be normal again. I would like that too, but after everything that happened, I can't just ignore all my experience. It took one year to damage our relationship and will take time to restore it. But for him it is hard to understand that. He would ask: Ok, I slept with someone else, but other than that why don't we have sex? He doesn't get that not only sex is missing in our relationship. And if it doesn't work immediately, than we are unhappy and stuck and we should divorce. I don't know if it means he lives in today.

Can you summarize the treatment he is receiving?  Does he see a therapist on a regular basis?

RC

He has been in therapy since last February. He had psychologist and psychiatrist who prescribed antidepressants. At first, it was intensive therapy and then few times a month seeing both at the same time, meanwhile he was getting worst. They said they did everything they could and he should see different psychiatrist on October. Since November, after second time in hospital, he started seeing new one (who is more direct with him, not afraid to hurt his feelings). He sees him every two weeks. His medics keep being adjusted or changed. He has some side effects (like feeling numb, walking rounds, having trouble to finish alone or with me). This new doctor told him he needs excitement like jumping with parachute, LSD... .That he can sleep with people without telling me. He sees no problem if he takes more pills than prescribed or mixes it with beer. But my husband feels a bit better. He is sad but he is more orientated, I can leave D3 alone with him. I feel he should see specialist more often. But the doc doesn't think so. He is booked anyway... .

It feels like all last year doesn't count. He was not himself, no matter what we talked about all is forgotten. Like all I felt was for nothing, there was no way I could have done or said to make difference. His behaviour with D3 was different, he wanted to control her, was not playful like usually. But doctors was not aware that he was different, how abnormal his behaviour was. And they refused to see me. They didn't know what was really happening at home. Even now, he says it is all fine at home. Yes, we don't fight usually, but is it all fine? And why then if all is fine, he comes and tells me he was in love with THE colleague? We didn't talk about it anymore. We all were ill. But he was surprised I didn’t cry. Like he wanted me to be hurt (but starts conversation with I don't want to upset you).

Few behaviours upset me last few days. But I was worn out from everybody being ill, I was tensed. Main thing is, he keeps asking no to treat him like a child but then he does something that only child would do, not an adult man. His self-worth is very low and it makes it difficult to tell any remark about his actions.

D.W