such a shock to me that I'm having panic attacks, and I'm feeling hurt pt.2

[clvrnn]

I spoke to her today, I decided to email her and try and sort the awkwardness out before we returned to uni. She responded quite harshly, told me that I was harassing her and that she didn't want contact anymore. As it's been five or so days since our last contact, I felt that it might have been OK to try and reach out.

Anyway. Because she responded angrily, I took my time in crafting a reply that let her know why I told her I felt she was acting selfish/immature, why I felt as if I'd been discarded, I spoke a little bit about how anxious I had been, and that I feel very disappointed in how she'd treated me at the end.

She became quite condescending, and told me that she'd warned me who she was before we got involved, and that she cannot accept responsibility for hurting me, and that I 'bombarded' her with messages and that she was not sure why I kept contacting her when she'd already told me what she wanted. (I only contacted her during the conversation in which she broke up with me, not any other time).

I then just repeated the stuff I'd said, as well as saying that I think it's not really worth the risk of my mental and emotional health to be trying to fix her, and that all I ever did for her was care about her, help her with things, be there for her, and that I didn't understand why she had turned me into this awful person.

She backed down slightly, and told me that she didn't understand how things had got to this level, and that she is confused over this whole situation.

I told her I wanted to be friends, and that I hated all of this, and that's why I reached out.

She then said that she wasn't sure she wanted to be friends after I'd said hurtful things about her (I hadn't been rude, I'd been honest about the things I'd felt she'd done, and how they'd affected me - in a bid to relay how hurt I had been feeling)

I told her that I didn't think she was a bad person, but that in this situation we both had issues that prevented it from becoming successful, and I apologised for contacting her when she'd broken up with me.

I asked her if she could unblock me so that we could tlak on the phone, and she said she needed time, that she doesn't want to unblock me at the moment, and that we will sort out the uni situation when we need to. She wished me happy holidays and told me she wouldn't be replying again, "for now". I didn't respond to that, and intend to just take some space.

I realise now that I still care about her, and want to be with her, and I don't know what to do.I didn't want things to get to this level at all.

[JNChell]

pwBPD aren’t able to see logic. Do you want to detach from your significant other, or do you want to try to work things out?

[clvrnn]

pwBPD aren’t able to see logic. Do you want to detach from your significant other, or do you want to try to work things out?

Half of me would like to try and work this out. I'm aware though, that this may not be the best thing for me to do, but I do.

[JNChell]

You’re torn, and your shoes fit my feet. You’re still in love and that’s ok. It’s been over a year out, and I can say that I’m still in Love with my ex. What do you feel right now?

[clvrnn]

You’re torn, and your shoes fit my feet. You’re still in love and that’s ok. It’s been over a year out, and I can say that I’m still in Love with my ex. What do you feel right now?

I feel as if I really want to be with her, and to just spend time with her. We were meant to be spending the holidays together, but now nothing.

[JNChell]

I understand those strong feelings. They can be overwhelming.  Pick one feeling that you’re feeling right now and talk about it. I guarantee that I need to to talk about it too.

[JNChell]

Are you still there?

[clvrnn]

Yes, I’m here. I don’t know. I wish things hadn’t reached this stage. This only started because we had an argument and she decided she didn’t want to continue, but if that hadn’t have happened, we might still be together.

I don’t know how I’m going to cope with seeing her. I didn’t want this to happen and it would devastate me if she finds someone else, or whatever. I’m dreading it.

[JNChell]

There are tools that are available here to help you. I honestly feel for you. I don’t like seeing people in pain.

[JNChell]

I want to spend time with my ex as well. I would like one last night  with her. One last time to show her who I am, and one last time to say what I want to.

[once removed]

i think the first step in either getting back together, or being friends, is stopping the bleeding.

it sounds like that was ultimately achieved, and that things ended somewhat amicably; that some space would still be good for both of you, but the road was paved for the ice to thaw.

what, ideally, would you like to see happen next?

[clvrnn]

i think the first step in either getting back together, or being friends, is stopping the bleeding.

it sounds like that was ultimately achieved, and that things ended somewhat amicably; that some space would still be good for both of you, but the road was paved for the ice to thaw.

what, ideally, would you like to see happen next?

Hello again, thank you for replying.

Yes, I think I was pleased with the outcome of that conversation. While it got heated at points, I think, yes - space is what is needed here.

Ideally, I would like us to become close again, although I have no idea how that would be achieved, as I feel it's very much up to her what happens next.

[clvrnn]

Wondering if anyone is out there to provide any insight on this?

[Insom]

It sounds like you have at least a couple of options in front of you - both of which involve looking inward for answers as opposed to waiting for her.

If she shows interest in getting close again (not likely given what's she's said so far, but certainly within the realm of imagination) I recommend checking out the Bettering board which has tremendous resources for people seeking to improve their relationship and communication skills.  There's something there for everyone (you don't have to be in a relationship with a disordered person to benefit). 

Another option is to start exploring the family stuff you mentioned in Part One of this thread.  Here's an excerpt from Part One which I'm highlighting as a reminder:

I recognise that my family and the dynamics within it have caused these tendencies within me, and that's something I don't know what to do with.

What tendencies have you identified that you feel work against you in relationships?

[clvrnn]

"If she shows interest in getting close again (not likely given what's she's said so far, but certainly within the realm of imagination)"

Would you mind elaborating on this slightly more? I presumed that her calming down and needing time may have been a positive sign, but perhaps I'm wrong.

[Insom]

I presumed that her calming down and needing time may have been a positive sign, but perhaps I'm wrong.

I agree these are good signs.  Another conversation sounds possible. As once removed said, the first step is to stop the bleeding and it sounds like you're on that path.   

[clvrnn]

I am truly confused, now. I keep reading conflicting things, about recycling, about them never coming back, about this person seeming to be on the way 'back' as such, then I'm hearing that it's unlikely they'll come back.

I just feel so stressed and overwhelmed with trying to understand all of this, and trying to see what it is I did wrong. I understand that some things I said to her may not have been ideal, but I was also quite hurt and have been by things she's done to me, and I have received no acknowledgment from her, other than her telling me that I knew who she was when I got involved and can't blame her for hurting me - so. I don't know.

[Fie]

Dear clvrnn,


I am sorry that you are hurting so much. I know how that feels. And the holidays don't make it any better do they.

Deep down, what do you want from a relationship ? Is it important to you, that you feel connected to your lover ? Is commitment important to you ?

[clvrnn]

Hello

No, the holidays make it a lot harder! If this was happening in summer, or any other time of year, I might find it a lot easier.

I would love to have a committed relationship, yes. I want to feel as if I'm part of a unit with someone, and that we support each other and care for each other, and even in times of difficulty we work to understand each other as best we can. It never seems to have happened for me, though.

[Fie]

I read you !

I also have a stranded relationship right now. He is a nice guy, but not able to provide me with the commitment I am looking for.

It sounds as if your ex also isn't able to give you what you need. Is that correct ?

[once removed]

I am truly confused, now. I keep reading conflicting things, about recycling, about them never coming back, about this person seeming to be on the way 'back' as such, then I'm hearing that it's unlikely they'll come back.

i think these things can get us kind of lost in the weeds. there might be simpler explanations for what happened and what is going on, if you look at it through the lens of human nature, and the conflict between the two of you.

I just feel so stressed and overwhelmed with trying to understand all of this, and trying to see what it is I did wrong. I understand that some things I said to her may not have been ideal, but I was also quite hurt

why dont we look at it less from a place of blame, or what you did wrong, and more from a place of what can be learned, what can be done better, in the future? to me, they are very different things.

there are a few things that jump out at me here:

1. in your anxiety, you are reactive, and in somewhat of a self sabotaging way. as someone who has experienced a lot of anxiety in his own life, i can understand how this happens; the feelings can be overwhelming, and in turn, that can make for an overwhelming urge to act in ways to try to alleviate that anxiety, but frequently escalate it.

2. there is a tendency on your end to say things like "maybe what i did wasnt the best move but i did it because she did ______", or dismiss how she perceives your actions, and justify them. on the flip side, she does some of this too, so both of you arent really hearing or understanding each other, just reacting to each other, while the chances for resolving the conflict and repairing the relationship deteriorate.

3. related to number 2, i see a tendency to equate "what i could do better" with "i am bad and its all my fault" or, as you said, "blaming myself for her behavior". this is black and white thinking commonly associated with anxiety and depression, and/or an anxious attachment style.

it can be challenging, even painful, to examining these things, but when we do, it can ultimately be incredibly liberating, and we can grow.

[clvrnn]

in your anxiety, you are reactive, and in somewhat of a self sabotaging way. as someone who has experienced a lot of anxiety in his own life, i can understand how this happens; the feelings can be overwhelming, and in turn, that can make for an overwhelming urge to act in ways to try to alleviate that anxiety, but frequently escalate it.

Thank you for your response, I think I'd like to address this point in particular.

In the past, I have reacted anxiously to being broken up with. I have in the past sent successions of messages, begging and pleading, even when the person wasn't responding. Messages that were frantic, incoherent, etc. And those were induced by anxiety, yes.

On this occasion, I was feeling anxious, yes. I was also upset at being broken up with, which I feel is appropriate. I did not send excessive messages to this woman.

She broke up with me in a message, to which I responded immediately with a request to call and talk things through. She IMMEDIATELY became angry, telling me that she did not want to engage with me, which made me feel upset, not anxious. She was intensely angry, rude and blunt, and this was upsetting, as she did not give me the room to express myself at all, but cut me off at every message.

She also specified that the reason I was blocked was because I said to her that I felt she was being very insensitive and needed to be more compassionate, which she interpreted as " throwing insults at her" - which was not what I was doing. I was expressing how her behaviour was making me feel, in hopes that she might back down or apologise, or become nicer in that conversation. She didn't, she blocked me.

I appreciate your input, but I don't think my anxiety caused this situation, and I think she has a lot to answer for, in terms of how her behaviours at this incident and throughout the relationship (she would often tell me how annoying my feelings were) made me feel and act. I am not suggesting that I didn't do anything wrong, but I feel that I didn't cause this person's behaviour.

I have not had any form of acknowledgement of the pain she has caused me, yet I've apologised to her and have tried to rectify this a few times, and I have always been on the end of her inconsistencies since the day I met her. I reiterate that I'm not perfect, but I didn't cause her behaviour. I approached her in a calm and collected way and she became angry immediately. There was no other way to approach her.

[clvrnn]

I read you !

I also have a stranded relationship right now. He is a nice guy, but not able to provide me with the commitment I am looking for.

It sounds as if your ex also isn't able to give you what you need. Is that correct ?

I'm sorry you're going through this, too. Have the pair of you been in recent contact?

No, she isn't able to give me what I require, emotionally. I think that's clear, now.

[clvrnn]

I agree these are good signs.  Another conversation sounds possible. As once removed said, the first step is to stop the bleeding and it sounds like you're on that path.   

Well, I hope they are good signs. I wouldn't like to think that her and I are never going to talk again. That would be a shame.

[once removed]

She also specified that the reason I was blocked was because I said to her that I felt she was being very insensitive and needed to be more compassionate, which she interpreted as " throwing insults at her" - which was not what I was doing. I was expressing how her behaviour was making me feel, in hopes that she might back down or apologise, or become nicer in that conversation. She didn't, she blocked me.

this is what im referring to in point #2.

she says she feels one way about your behavior. you say its not what you were doing or intended, and restate how you feel about her behavior.

how a person perceives our actions (whether we agree or not) usually matter as much as our intentions. its like if i tease you, and it hurts your feelings, and i say "well, i was just joking". your feelings are still hurt, and maybe more, because im not listening, and im telling you that your feelings are wrong.

I am not suggesting that I didn't do anything wrong, but I feel that I didn't cause this person's behaviour.

likewise, she feels that she didnt cause your behavior. youre both right. we are responsible for our own behavior. by taking that responsibility, we can begin to solve conflict and repair relationships.

[clvrnn]

Thank you for clarifying, once removed. I think that because I feel hurt and disrespected, I am looking at it from my own POV.

I did try my best to explain to her why I said/acted in the ways I did, and tried to clarify what my intentions were, whether she understood or not, that's not up to me, I suppose. Of course, we are not all the same one person, and have different ways of reacting to things.

I do worry that she hates/dislikes me, now. She is of course under no obligation to contact or talk to me, as is her right. I do miss talking to her, but I think that contact right now wouldn't help.

I also want to show that I am able to stay in control of myself and respect another's need for space, even if it is difficult. I will attempt contact shortly before we return to university, perhaps.

I don't know how I will try to rectify this situation, if I try to.

[Luan]

Hi clvrnn,

Having been through a very similar situation I empathise with the anxiety you are feeling. We feel we simply must do something to address the absolute madness of having the world turned upside down. It would be like showing up for work and the boss says who are you? No, you don't work here, now leave or I'll call the police. I noticed myself clinging to any bits of advice I could get on here and else ware, especially as friends (even those who know your partner) don't always see what has happened in private. The tools on here regarding validation, communication and empathy will become your friends, not just for this relationship, but for life.

I would suggest 'doing less is more' whenever possible at the moment. Any pursuit can be seen as overwhelming to someone who has shut their emotions down. And that is what she has done, turned off that tap, for her own self protection. Rest in the knowledge that the love you share is eternal, and try not to say too much in your responses. Almost anything we say can be misconstrued at this time.

My level of anxiety was such that I took days off work and thought about medication/therapy. Since then I have learned to not take personally almost all of her behaviour. It comes for her deeply seated pain, something that will not change in any hurry, if at all. Once you have uncovered that, you become the outlet for them expressing that, and every interaction is another opportunity for that to occur.

I have got to the stage where we are communicating on a friendly, but impersonal manner. I suppose I think if there is any hope, it will be by building trust through friendship, but the protection mechanisms are so strong with someone with BPD, that I am not sure at this stage where it will go from here.

I thank you for sharing your story, it has been so close to my own it has helped me understand more about my situation. Try to take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. In the end, you, and you situation are unique, and by gathering every tool and inner strength you can, regardless of your significant other's choices, you will be 10 times stronger by the end of this.

All power to you, Luan

[once removed]

I do worry that she hates/dislikes me, now.

i dont see much indication that she hates or dislikes you. i see a lot of indication that this thing between the two of you kinda blew up, and its hard to figure out where to go from there, for both of you.

I do miss talking to her, but I think that contact right now wouldn't help.

space can really help. it stops the bleeding. things can get better when they stop getting worse.

I will attempt contact shortly before we return to university, perhaps.

be prepared that she may not respond for a bit (as she indicated she might not). be prepared, if she does, for things to be awkward for a bit. its a confusing and awkward transition.

do you still want to talk with her about what happened in the relationship?

[clvrnn]

Hello again once removed - thank you for replying.

It's now been a week since we had that conversation. I haven't attempted to contact her, and I haven't heard from her. I presumed that her telling me she wouldn't be responding meant within that conversation, not forever - as she went on to say that we will sort out the uni 'situation' when we need to.

There are still two more weeks until we go back, and that means it will be three weeks or so with no contact. Hopefully by then things will have calmed down, but I don't know for sure.

I don't know, anymore. I am struggling with a lot of feelings related to her. More than anything, the intensity and the closeness we shared, and her sudden switch away from me, seemingly over nothing, and the subsequent break up. My feelings for her are still very strong, and ideally I would like to be with her. I am aware that she may not want to do that/may not feel like that, so it is difficult.

I am also aware that, as a person, she is just not emotionally available for me, and that, even if we began dating again, that she could not provide the things that I need/want, emotionally. It is difficult too, being in a very small class with her when I have these strong feelings, and I am unsure how I am going to deal with those.

At this stage, I don't know what I want or what is best. I would like to remain in her life, but I think that it would be difficult to be platonic friends, and I think she often oversteps boundaries - she would be likely to flirt with me, spend time with me, but then pull back if I expressed anything remotely feeling-based.

It would hurt if we didn't speak at all. It would hurt if we were involved again, for the reasons I mentioned above.

I feel very much trapped/stuck, as if no option will really provide me with any relief.

[Fie]

I'm sorry you're going through this, too. Have the pair of you been in recent contact?

No, she isn't able to give me what I require, emotionally. I think that's clear, now.

As far as contact, he has send me a message, to which I haven't responded yet. He wants to stay friends. I  don't want that. I am planning on sending him an email explaining this to him, and the reason why I don't want it. I am waiting a little  ... just in case my feeling about it all would change (although knowing myself, it probably won't).

You are saying ideally you'd like to be with her. Is that, even knowing that she's not able to give you what your require ? Because it's 1 package as you know ... .

Being in the same class will obviously be difficult. For me overcoming heartbreak requires no contact. Do you think for you it is possible to stay in contact and still heal ? I think this is a very important question to ask yourself.
If the answer is no ... is it possible to work around this ? To be in another class ?