Re: New here and struggling

[Purplex]

It was an emotional rollercoaster ride and I’m having a hard time processing everything that happened.
When I arrived on his place on sunday, he was very cold and didn’t even hug me. He told me about his week and that he met two other girls. I asked if I had a reason to be jealous, he said that one of them was really good looking and that he might be interested in having sex with her. I think that he just wanted to be honest and open, but I instantly felt nauseous. I asked him where we were standing, he told me that if that fight would have happened with any other person, he would have cut off the contact immediately. He couldn’t do that with me, but he thought that we needed at least a 2 weeks break. I told him, that I felt like we were back at square one and that I couldn’t handle a break because the insecurity would drive me crazy. If he wanted this I had to end things for good, to keep what was left of my sanity and self-worth.
He understood, and we remained silent for a while. Then he came over, hugged me and told me that he didn’t want me to leave, that his life would feel so empty without me and that he wanted to fix things. I hugged him back, told him that I didn’t want to leave either, but that I didn’t know if I could ever feel comfortable with how things are now and that I didn’t know what else to do. We cuddled for a long time and both felt a bit better after that. He cautiously asked me if I wanted to stay overnight and I agreed. He wanted to give me his Christmas present but somehow it didn’t feel right to accept it and I didn’t bring a present for him. I told him that I could maybe come by on Thursday or Friday to exchange gifts. He happily agreed and asked if I would also stay a bit longer then. Of course I would if he wanted that too. He stressed again that he wanted to work everything out and that it was important to him that I tell him about my thoughts, feelings and wishes. So I explained how his comment about that girl made me feel and how his inability to sleep with me affected my self-worth. He assured me that he didn’t even really like that girl, but since she doesn’t text he sees this relationship as an opportunity to get more comfortable with making phone calls. Although that’s great, it kinda missed the point and didn’t really help me feel better. But since I felt so vulnerable I left it with that. We talked a bit more about his history and attitude towards sex, but this didn’t really provide any new insight. The rest of the evening was nice and I did enjoy our time together alot, but I still couldn’t completely shake the feeling of tenseness and emotional exhaustion.
I had to get up early the next morning to catch my bus for the 2-hour ride home. On my way to the station I felt this bottomless sadness, anger and desperation crawl up on me and I came close to a nervous breakdown. I cried silently under my hood and tried my best to not loudly burst into tears. I felt like I managed to draw the short straw AGAIN. He got me to stay and be patient, and I didn’t get any affirmation about the status of our relationship or him being faithful. I know I should have addressed those things more clearly that evening, but I guess I was too overwhelmed and numb to think about it. So I texted him how I felt, that I was completely lost and at my limit. He was shocked at first, because he thought everything was reasonably ok again (can’t blame him for that, I intermediately thought so too). But he quickly understood where I was coming from and was very caring and supportive. He finally assured me that being faithful did work out quite well so far. A bit ambiguous but still relieving. I told him, that if he wanted to help me he had to promise that he would immediately tell me if this changed, so that I could at least stop worrying in the meantime. I asked him to put himself in my shoes and he admitted that he would feel horrible if our roles were reversed. He understands that I fight with all my strength to make this relationship work and that it’s on him to try even harder. If there was anything he could change about his behavior that would make me feel better, I should tell him and if talking about it helped he would gladly do that too. This conversation really helped me to calm down a bit and get some confidence back.

Later that day I thought more about what exactly makes me feel insecure and unsafe with him, what keeps me from trusting him completely. This was my conclusion:
We love and care about each other on a very deep level. This is beautiful and worth treasuring. But I feel like he isn’t and never was ‘in love’ with me. There is strong affection but no passion in our interactions. There is familiarity and gentle closeness, but no sensual intimacy. I feel all those things for him, and only for him, but I can’t express the latter in a way, that resonates with him. He is unable to reciprocate those feelings because he doesn’t have them. I would be overjoyed to share all my love with him, but instead I am forced to lock away a part of it to protect myself.
I am unsure if this is even related to his BPD or if this is an issue of general incompatibility?
Maybe it’s even unusual for me to feel that way?

Sorry for this wall of text and thank you for reading, I didn’t know how to keep it shorter :/

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

after the weekend, how do you feel about things as they are now and going forward?

[Purplex]

I feel like there is hope and that we are on the right track. I just need to put myself back together and keep communicating. Right now I am such a mess and so exhausted. There are some silver linings, but maybe I am really too eager to "fix things" like believer55 proposed. I hope that I won't regret the decisions I make now somewhere down the line. But for now I want to keep hanging in there. I'm glad that we made plans for this week and that he was so supportive. That means a lot to me.

[once removed]

When I arrived on his place on sunday, he was very cold and didn’t even hug me. He told me about his week and that he met two other girls. I asked if I had a reason to be jealous, he said that one of them was really good looking and that he might be interested in having sex with her.

why do you think he dropped this info?

[Purplex]

why do you think he dropped this info?

I really feel like he wanted to be truthful and keep me 'up to date'. Maybe he also wanted to explain himself. In a sense of 'This is how my brain works'. I don't think that he wanted to hurt me. I can't think of any occasion he ever deliberately did that. He would rather hurt himself.

[once removed]

i dont think he had hurting you in mind either.

do you think hes dangling the possibility of officiality/exclusivity and yanking it away a bit?

from where im sitting, there seems to be some push/pull between the two of you.

you lost your cool, he withdrew the option of a relationship. the ice thawed a little with some space.

when you saw him though, he was cold push and dropped some upsetting info push. whether he intended to hurt you, sometimes people will drop some potentially jealousy inducing info to gauge an attachment. we all do this, ive done it. do you think thats a possibility?

when he proposed a two week break, and you effectively said "im not so sure", he dialed things way back, went into trying to save things mode, asked you to spend the night.

some ice thawed, but you again effectively said "im not so sure"... .he was reassuring, said being faithful helps.

do you see this? am i on base?

[Purplex]

do you see this? am i on base?

Ooohh yes I see that now! It's really obvious if you put it that way, thanks for your perspective!

I just remembered a very similar situation that happened shortly before we broke up in summer. Things already were pretty tense between us and he randomly texted me that he missed me. I asked him how he was doing and he told me that he run into his ex the other day and that they talked for 3 hours. I kept my cool and asked him how he felt about that and if they were able to talk some stuff out. He said that he wasn't sure how he felt and that they made plans to meet up again. I asked him if thats what he really wanted and if he thought that he would gain anything from that. He was unsure. I told him that in this case I would advise him to make up his mind about that first and maybe meet up another time if  he felt the need to discuss anything specific. He ended up cancelling plans with her.
I think we talked about that another time and he admitted that he was hoping for a jealous reaction. I feel like I handled the situation pretty well back then because I didn't take the bait at all.
Is this the right approach?
Not sure if I handled it well this time... .I tried to keep my cool and didn't react in the situation, but I admitted to feeling hurt later.
Should I talk to him about this dynamic or is this a bad idea?

[once removed]

I just remembered a very similar situation that happened shortly before we broke up in summer.

that was my next question 

I think we talked about that another time and he admitted that he was hoping for a jealous reaction. I feel like I handled the situation pretty well back then because I didn't take the bait at all.
Is this the right approach?

we all do it a little bit. my ex kinda did it to me, later admitting it might have "subconsciously" been a push to get me to pursue her 

not taking the bait in a reactive way is good, sure. but im not sure that calling it out in a neutral and mature way isnt so bad either. my ex and i called each other on it, committed to not doing it anymore, and didnt. its good to nip in the bud if you can. you might be in a tight spot, as youve said you want honesty and openness and he can play dumb.

Should I talk to him about this dynamic or is this a bad idea?

hard to say. what would you want to say? what would you hope to achieve?

[Purplex]

not taking the bait in a reactive way is good, sure. but im not sure that calling it out in a neutral and mature way isnt so bad either.

I feel like not taking the bait is the easy way out for me, because then I can just push my hurt away and pretend nothing happend or rationalize the matter. Calling it out requires acknowledging my feelings in the moment and I might have a hard time staying calm and neutral after that. But I agree, this might actually be the better approach. I'll try that next time. And since I already admitted that he pushed the right buttons there, just ignoring it is probably not gonna work out that well anymore anyway

my ex and i called each other on it, committed to not doing it anymore, and didnt. its good to nip in the bud if you can. you might be in a tight spot, as youve said you want honesty and openness and he can play dumb.

hard to say. what would you want to say? what would you hope to achieve?

I would tell him that this is what I think is happening sometimes and if he could see that too. I would hope for that conversation to be a reference point in case a similar situation occurs so that it's harder to play dumb for both of us.

[once removed]

what about a sly smile along with "you tryna make me jealous?". something like that. personalized, of course.

[Purplex]

what about a sly smile along with "you tryna make me jealous?". something like that. personalized, of course.

This would have worked great for the conversation about his ex. I remember toying with the idea of reacting like that. But I was unsure if there wasn't a 'real' issue he wanted to talk about and maybe such a reaction would discourage him. But of course there wasn't. I think I'll just go with my gut next time.

On sunday I was too sensitive for that approach. The problem felt too real to keep casual about it.

[once removed]

so, whats new? any update?

[Purplex]

Last week we spent two more days together and it felt like things were back to how they were before our fight and all in all we had a really good time.

I would tell him that this is what I think is happening sometimes and if he could see that too. I would hope for that conversation to be a reference point in case a similar situation occurs so that it's harder to play dumb for both of us.

I didn’t mention any of that because it didn’t feel necessary or the right time to bring it up.
We talked a bit more about the sex issue, which is great because it shows that he really is trying to comply with my wishes. The problem with those conversations is, that they rapidly develop into him monologuing about his past experiences, that I know about already, and him changing the topic eventually without really touching the core of the issue. I already understand that for him, sex is a tool to show affection and establish a connection on a superficial level and that this isn’t required anymore with a romantic partner who is already so emotionally close. I don't need more elaboration on that because I don't feel like that's the underlying problem but more of a symptome. It would maybe explain a low sex drive in a relationship, but not the inability to see a partner in a sexual light at all. This was a pattern in his previous relationships as well and he describes it as being mentally blocked from sexualizing me. But he can’t put a finger on what exactly triggers that blockage. He is a very sexual being, but he would rather suppress his urges then act them out with me although I am more than ready to get busy. From my perspective that sounds a lot like madonna/whore complex, which would also fit in with some comments he made about me and women in general. He doesn’t think that’s the issue but can't really offer another explanation.
To be fair, there has already been a lot of improvement and he tries really hard to accommodate my needs but it’s still sad that he has to force himself to sexualize me and make me feel desirable.
We didn’t see each other over the holidays but kept texting and made plans to meet up tomorrow. If things go well, I’ll stay for a couple of days and we will celebrate New Year’s together, so that's great 

[once removed]

does it bother you to hear about his past experiences?

is there any sexual intimacy... .making out, other stuff?

plans to meet up tomorrow

did they go through?

[Purplex]

does it bother you to hear about his past experiences?

Not really. I like to learn more about him and get to know him even better, so I'm actually rather curious about his past. What bothers me is that he doesn't show any interest in mine or even denies it. He once sait that he'd rather see me as chaste/virginal, so I guess he doesn't like to be reminded that that's not true. But what the heck. I get that he wouldn't enjoy a detailed report about my sexual history but he could at least acknowledge that I am no dark horse in that regard especially if he puts so much emphasis on his experiences.
It also bothers me to be reminded that he is depriving me of something I wish for so badly and that he is so eager to offer to others.

is there any sexual intimacy... .making out, other stuff?

There is a lot of cuddeling, caressing, holding hands and a peck here and there. But he avoids everything like the plague that could be regarded as more suggestive. Since I  brought up that I needed more sexual imtimacy we started making out from time to time and he makes an effort to touch me more offensively. It feels rather forced but I guess we are on the right track.

did they go through?

Yes, we met up had a great time and he even initiated some sexual stuff! He struggled with the feeling of doing something wrong or inappropriate and zoned out a couple of times. but it's still a success I guess.

[once removed]

It also bothers me to be reminded that he is depriving me of something I wish for so badly and that he is so eager to offer to others.

so, on some level, or in that way?

Since I  brought up that I needed more sexual imtimacy we started making out from time to time and he makes an effort to touch me more offensively. It feels rather forced but I guess we are on the right track.

effort is important... .

what about intimacy in other departments? are the two of you good, close friends? supportive shoulders to cry on, share the special moments, that kind of thing?

[Purplex]

so, on some level, or in that way?

I'm not sure what you mean by that? English is not my native language so please bear with me

effort is important... .

Yes absolutely! But I'm still feeling so torn between appreciation and frustration about everything that isn't there yet or will never be. Those things that just were naturally there in previous relationships and that require such hard work to reach or maintain now. In contrary to a lot of people on this board I'm not yet bound to my pwBPD by marriage, children or any other commitment. I'm still free to decide what is best for me and sometimes I'm feeling like I'm diving into something that's going to severely damage me in the long run. This is such a bumpy and painful road and I don't know if it's worth to take it.   

what about intimacy in other departments? are the two of you good, close friends? supportive shoulders to cry on, share the special moments, that kind of thing?

That's surprisingly hard to answer. We are definitely good friends and very close in a lot of ways. We share a lot of personal things, support eachother as good as we can and talk alot about emotional stuff and daily struggles or positive experiences. But for me sometimes there is this lingering feeling of disconnection, like he can't really relate to the part of me that isn't involved with him. He still has to meet most of my friends and family for example. Those people play a big part in my life, they make me feel comfortable and reflect who I am. I think he knows that but makes very little effort to learn more about them and thereby me. When we spend time together I feel like I am diving into his world, which can be so joyful and interesting but also crushing and limitating. It feels so familiar and still so foreign at the same time. I think I got a really good impression of who he is but I doubt that he knows roughly as much about my world. Does this make sense?     

[once removed]

I'm not sure what you mean by that?

i meant you stated that it didnt bother you, but you gave two reasons/ways that it does  . im just wondering if its worth setting certain parameters around the conversations.

I'm still feeling so torn between appreciation and frustration about everything that isn't there yet or will never be.
... .
This is such a bumpy and painful road and I don't know if it's worth to take it.

i guess the million dollar question is whether you feel there has been significant, consistent progress, vs how much more progress you think can be made.
  

still has to meet most of my friends and family for example.

why hasnt he?

[Purplex]

i meant you stated that it didnt bother you, but you gave two reasons/ways that it does  .

Ah I see. Let me clarify. I was trying to say, that I am not bothered by these stories per se, I never had an issue with previous partners telling me similar stuff.  It’s not the content of the conversations but his implicit distorted perception of me that annoys me.

im just wondering if its worth setting certain parameters around the conversations.

Hmm… A fitting parameter might be to try to focus more on this underlying issue and stop the conversation if he starts to digress into anecdotes that don’t add anything constructive. I think it’s a big effort for him to address the real problem and discuss it with me, so he prefers to go ‘off topic’ to distract both of us.

i guess the million dollar question is whether you feel there has been significant, consistent progress, vs how much more progress you think can be made.

Right this is what it ultimately comes down to. There definitely has been significant and consistent progress since we got back together. We managed to identify a lot of issues, started to talk about them and are on the same page about solving them. Considering the future possibilities, I think there is actually a lot of potential: He has a very competent and supportive therapist, he is determined to work on his issues, we communicate well, and we have some (although rather abstract) common goals. We are both still in our twenties, so we should have a lot of time for improvement i guess 
The negatives: He still has depression and is very low functioning, unable to work full time, hesitant to leave the house, struggling to keep up with daily chores. I feel like he is slowly learning to better manage those issues and I am happy to support him. But I don’t want to end up as a fulltime caretaker and I’m unsure If he can keep up with my expectations of a halfway steady life. 

why hasnt he?

Anxiety mostly. The only person I introduced him to is my best friend. We visited her at her place and they got along really well. But I could tell that this was very exhausting for him and he didn’t want to stay very long. Recently he offered, that my family or friends could meet us at his place, but the whole point of meeting them is to show him a part of my life, not to drag them into his. So I don’t like the idea. I’d love to introduce him to my brothers that are still living at my childhood home and show him where I grew up. My brother even has a dog and he loves dogs. But it feels like that this would be asking a lot and very stressful for both of us.