I heard from my son, and now I need to stop reaching out

[Feeling Better]

Well, it took me completely by surprise, I can definitely say that I wasn’t expecting that.

I’ve held back posting about it because I needed time to think about it and get myself into the right frame of mind. It set off old thoughts. I’ve been a bit down, but nothing like how it’s affected me in the past.

So, after two years of NC, my son finally responded to my emails. To be fair, I did kinda bombard him. I think I felt that I was on a roll. I reached out to him a bit before Christmas (wrote a nice email with the help of Lollypop, for which I am so grateful). Then on Christmas Day I just emailed him Happy Christmas and at new year, Happy New Year. I didn’t think anything of it because I’d already convinced myself that all my emails were probably unread and deleted anyway. So it was a big shock to get a reply to the New Years email.

So, basically he wrote that he tried for years to have a relationship with me but I neither acknowledged the problem nor him. In order to protect himself and his mental health he took the difficult decision to have no contact with me. He asked me to leave him alone and he says the recent unsolicited emails I’ve sent show that I still have no intention of acknowledging or addressing the problems. He says it’s insulting and hurtful to receive these meaningless emails and if I continue sending them he will block my email address.

Obviously I will stop reaching out to him, I don’t want to do anything that will cause him distress or harm his mental health in any way. I do think however that his email deserves a response, there is a lot of truth in there and things that need addressing. He is right when he says that I didn’t acknowledge him. I was scared. I knew I couldn’t agree with the things that he said, and yet I understood what he was saying, I just didn’t know what to say to him. So I either didn’t say anything or I tried to explain or justify. I didn’t know about BPD and I didn’t know about validation. I think he needs and deserves to know that I do acknowledge him, I need to validate him.

FB x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Huat]

Hello Feeling Better

I recognize your hurt and I am so glad you are here in this community where I hope you feel the hugs that are coming your way... .mine are included.

Yep, your son is a hard nut to crack.  Can't say this is going to do him any good in the long run but that will be HIS problem.  I hope you stay secure in the knowledge that you tried your best... .and will continue to do so if/when the need arises.

You write... ."He is right when he says that I didn't acknowledge him... ."  Well, maybe one last email with a Subject... .."You are right".... .then in the body of it tell him... ."I did not validate your feelings... .I am sorry."  Then, as hard as it may be, leave it until he, hopefully, contacts you in the future.   Don't hold your breath, though.  You have living to do and you need your breath.  ; )

You and I have read and responded to each other's woes in regards to these children of ours that we love so much... .and who seem to have a problem returning that love to us.  For a Mother to be rejected by their child can be the ultimate pain but that is where "choices" come into play.  Many-a-talk I've had with myself these past healing years.  It is my choice... .either I let my daughter's treatment of me consume my life... .or I move on.  That is not to say I have wiped her from my heart.  She holds a life-long mortgage on a part of it... .just a part of it.

Keep writing, Feeling Better! 

Huat

[Harri]

Hi Feeling Better.   

That must have been tough to read and process.  I am sorry that he is sticking by his decision rather than giving things a chance.  It is good that you shared here though as we care and can support you.  I do not have any words of wisdom for this situation but I can certainly listen along with the rest of your family here.

Harri

[Only Human]

Hi Feeling Better,

I'm also here to show my support and to tell you I'm so sorry for this recent upset. I can only imagine how sad this has made you and I'm glad you shared with us. It's awesome that you are not as negatively affected this time as you have been in the past. I'm having the same experience and it feels good to not feel awful, if that makes sense.

As you probably already know from my posts here, I'm a big believer in "it's never too late to validate" so I understand wanting to do that. It's a tough call, yours to make, and we are here to support whatever you decide.

Continue to take care of yourself, Feeling Better. You are an inspiration to many here, myself included.

~ OH

[once removed]

hi FB

"He is right when he says that I didn't acknowledge him... ."  Well, maybe one last email with a Subject... .."You are right".... .then in the body of it tell him... ."I did not validate your feelings... .I am sorry."  Then, as hard as it may be, leave it until he, hopefully, contacts you in the future.

i think a personalized version of this (what is he referring to as the problem you didnt acknowledge?) is your best card.

it plants a seed, its very brief and not intrusive, its about the best possible version of "okay, i will respect your wishes" that one could send.

[wendydarling]

Hi Feeling Better  

More hugs coming your way FB holding you tight, that must have been a shock after 2 years and painful for you. I agree with you, your son deserves a response, as Huat and once removed helpfully follow up your suggestion. And as Lollypop says, keep the path back open.

I'm so glad you are here with us FB where we can all learn from and support each other and pour our hearts out knowing someone is always listening and cares.

Love to you.

WDx

[JNChell]

Hey, FB. I know this is tough and probably has you sitting on the edge of your seat in a way. The thing is, there may be opportunity here. He’s responding to you. He’s opening up if only a bit. I’m not experienced in this area enough to give you solid advice, but from what I’ve read here maybe keeping it very light and validating him can open the door just a bit more. This sounds like a very delicate situation. Maybe keep any emotions to the wayside. He’ll have plenty. Do you think that jotting your response down here first might help?

[Lollypop]

He asked me to leave him alone and he says the recent unsolicited emails I’ve sent show that I still have no intention of acknowledging or addressing the problems. He says it’s insulting and hurtful to receive these meaningless emails and if I continue sending them he will block my email address.

Hi FB.

Well, first thing is that you’ve had a reply - a success in that. I’m just so very sorry it wasn’t the one you hoped for. His reply was open and honest. I liked the way he told you no contact was a difficult decision for him to make, that was kind as he didn’t have to say that.

Do you think he meant that he’d accept a reply if it was meaningful and acknowledged him and the problem?

Or is it that he wants your emails to stop entirely?

You know him, what’s your thoughts?

Hugs to you FB.

LP

[Feeling Better]

Thank you so much for all the kind and supportive replies. I’m still trying to process and decide what my next course of action will be. The easy route is to just do nothing. I don’t think that’s the route for me, but it is feeling pretty comfortable right now. I don’t think I could live with myself though if I leave things as they are, I would always have a “what if” hanging over me. But it scares me to think of writing a reply, knowing that it will be the last one that I potentially ever write to him, and for that reason I am delaying actually doing it.

Huat
Thank you so much for caring, and for sharing your wisdom. You are right when you say “As hard as it may be, leave it until he, hopefully, contacts you in the future.”. I know that this is what I must do. I am much stronger now and I know I also have lots of support 

You and I have read and responded to each other's woes in regards to these children of ours that we love so much... .and who seem to have a problem returning that love to us.  For a Mother to be rejected by their child can be the ultimate pain but that is where "choices" come into play.  Many-a-talk I've had with myself these past healing years.  It is my choice... .either I let my daughter's treatment of me consume my life... .or I move on.  That is not to say I have wiped her from my heart.  She holds a life-long mortgage on a part of it... .just a part of it.

Can’t tell you how much it means to me to read this, to be reminded that I have a choice. It lifts me up Huat, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart 

Harri

That must have been tough to read and process.  I am sorry that he is sticking by his decision rather than giving things a chance.  It is good that you shared here though as we care and can support you.  I do not have any words of wisdom for this situation but I can certainly listen along with the rest of your family here.

It was tough to read yet despite that I felt happy that he had actually responded. That might sound a bit weird, but after two years of nothing, it felt good to receive something.

Thank you for your support Harri, it means a lot. Listening is enough and I thank you for that   

OH
Thank you so much for offering your support, you are so kind. I have said it before and I am saying it again, I am so glad that you are here.

I’d like to think that it’s not too late to validate, if I’m being completely honest and realistic though, I don’t think that it will make any difference, but it won’t stop me trying. I just hate giving up, but thankfully, I do recognise my limits.

once removed
When I started this thread I was actually struggling to remember what he meant by “the problem”. It was a petty argument between him and his sister and I intervened as I was concerned that it was getting out of hand. It was years ago and it’s something that he’s not been able to let go of and move on from, maybe because at that time I didn’t know about validating his feelings. Over the years he has changed his version of the truth and he has turned on his sister. I believe that he now sees his sister as the problem. He thinks that she is evil and he has done his utmost to convince me of that. Assuming that he perceives his sister to be the problem, I have to say that there is no way that I can acknowledge that as being true because it just simply isn’t. The only thing I could validate is his feelings.

WD
As ever, you are there for me, and I thank you so much for that 

I am glad that you agree with me that my son deserves a response. It will then be up to him, I will probably let him know that I will respect his wishes and that I won’t contact him again.

JNChell
Thanks for your kind words and for “popping over here” 

When I first read what you wrote, I thought, yes, you and I are on the same page. I too saw it as an opportunity. I have had chance to reflect and I do wonder if maybe I tried to read too much between the lines. A bit of wishful thinking maybe. I need to keep my feet firmly on the ground but I do agree about the validation. Thank you.

Lollypop
Thank you so much for your input, I always value your opinion.

Well, first thing is that you’ve had a reply - a success in that. I’m just so very sorry it wasn’t the one you hoped for. His reply was open and honest. I liked the way he told you no contact was a difficult decision for him to make, that was kind as he didn’t have to say that.

Yes, that is my son, always open and honest, things I love dearly about him. I too was struck by him saying that it had been a difficult decision for him to go no contact. I sensed a lot of hurt still there in the things that he wrote.

Do you think he meant that he’d accept a reply if it was meaningful and acknowledged him and the problem?

Or is it that he wants your emails to stop entirely?

You know him, what’s your thoughts?

This is where I come unstuck. I know what I want it to mean, but that might not necessarily be what he actually does mean. Both questions you have asked could easily be answered by “Yes”. I like to think that he could have just written “Leave me alone” as he did in the past but he chose to write more, maybe to offer me another chance for us to sort this out. Actually, the more I think about it, the more confused I become. Maybe we’re going too deep, trying to work out what he means and what he wants. Only he knows those answers. The way I look at it is this:
I feel that I am at the point where it doesn’t really matter what I do. He is going to do whatever he feels he needs to do anyway. Bearing that in mind, I have nothing to lose by sending him a reply, whether he wants one or not. I hope this makes sense, it’s past my bedtime and I’m really tired now, but I’d like to once again say a big thank you 

FB x

[JNChell]

The easy route is to just do nothing. I don’t think that’s the route for me, but it is feeling pretty comfortable right now. I don’t think I could live with myself though if I leave things as they are, I would always have a “what if” hanging over me. But it scares me to think of writing a reply, knowing that it will be the last one that I potentially ever write to him, and for that reason I am delaying actually doing it.

You’re doing a good job of being mindful. I don’t know if I’m right in saying this, but there is a very good chance that he wants a response. From what I’ve learned about pwBPD, they seek responses. If this is accurate, and feedback from others here is needed, that response should be carefully thought out. I agree, you don’t want to live with “what if’s” when it comes to your Son and I think you’re showing a lot of thoughtfulness and compassion when it comes to delaying your response. Are you comfortable with bringing the parts of the conversation that led up to him responding to you to the board? This might help the well seasoned members here help you draft an effective response. I’m glad that the door is opening for you, FB. This is a positive.

[Feeling Better]

JNChell

You’re doing a good job of being mindful. I don’t know if I’m right in saying this, but there is a very good chance that he wants a response. From what I’ve learned about pwBPD, they seek responses. If this is accurate, and feedback from others here is needed, that response should be carefully thought out. I agree, you don’t want to live with “what if’s” when it comes to your Son and I think you’re showing a lot of thoughtfulness and compassion when it comes to delaying your response. Are you comfortable with bringing the parts of the conversation that led up to him responding to you to the board?

Thank you 

I’m not sure whether he actually does want a response, but as I said previously, I have nothing to lose right now by responding. There might however be something to gain. Do nothing and nothing happens.

I don’t think that there is anything specific that I wrote to him that led him to respond to me this time. I think it was because I sent three emails in a short space of time. He was also already here in the UK when I sent him two of the emails, one wishing him Happy Christmas and the other Happy New Year. I know that I was brought up in conversation when he saw my daughter and that most likely had an effect on him too.

I would like to think, as you say, that this is positive, but I won’t be holding my breath.

Thanks again JNChell for your kind response

FB x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JNChell]

Not knowing if he wants a response has to be a hard gamble. Also, your attitude on doing nothing means nothing happens is spot on. Perhaps taking some time and talking about it here will help you manifest the response that you’d like to give, as well as be the most meaningful and productive response.

You’ve traveled a hard road when it comes to your boy. You’re at a potential crossroad with him. As much as you might want to go full ahead with steam, go easy. Hopefully better minds than mine will show up here to shore up my discrepancies. 

[incadove]

Hi Feeling Better

Wow that must feel so high stakes, that you are feeling it could be the last email you send for a long while.

I would not presume to tell you what to do!  But I do want to just say, remember while respecting his wishes and feelings, in the end you also respect him by being true to yourself, not JADE-ing but just doing what feels true to the core of your own being.  And its ok to do what seems true and right to you from all the wisdom you have gathered, no matter what the end result is.  Because you aren't responsible in the end for your son's decision, only for your own.

[JNChell]

Checking in in my abrubt ways of doing things. How are you, FB? How are you feeling?

[Feeling Better]

Hi JNChell, thanks for checking in, I’ve been off the board the last few days thanks to my H passing on his “man flu” germs.

Not knowing if he wants a response has to be a hard gamble.

It’s a gamble worth taking.

You’ve traveled a hard road when it comes to your boy. You’re at a potential crossroad with him. As much as you might want to go full ahead with steam, go easy. Hopefully better minds than mine will show up here to shore up my discrepancies. 

Yes, I agree, it could potentially be a very important crossroad. Then again it could be totally pointless but I won’t know until I try. I have tried other ways of reaching out to him and he sees them as “mindless emails” so, as we say here, “If your current approach is not working, change it”.

I will contact him in my own good time, with a clear mind.

Thanks for your support JNChell 

incadove
Thanks to you also for your kind words of support

But I do want to just say, remember while respecting his wishes and feelings, in the end you also respect him by being true to yourself, not JADE-ing but just doing what feels true to the core of your own being.  And its ok to do what seems true and right to you from all the wisdom you have gathered, no matter what the end result is.  Because you aren't responsible in the end for your son's decision, only for your own.

Thank you incadove, you echo my own thoughts perfectly. Thank you especially for validating that it is ok to do what seems true and right to me. That means a lot to me 
I thank you also for the reminder that I am only responsible for my own decision

FB x

[wendydarling]

Hi Feeling Better  

I do hope you are feeling better, your namesake. It can take some time to fully recover, I hope you get time to continue to rest up with plenty of self care.

I'd like to offer a further perspective to this conversation. And that is that today, we never know what will happen tomorrow, things change, we learn that here together. I keep my eye on my end game and I learnt that when my DD was in crisis, no way was I going to lose her, I do my best, very similar situation FB, you don't want to lose your DS, you are doing your best. Always remember that.

FB, I do think your DS is expecting a response, in your good time, there is no rush. What does he want to hear?

It may be helpful, if you feel comfortable to share more about your son with us, his young years, his friendships, his talents, his interpersonal relationships, school, learning, things you remember, good times, cherished memories. I reference Lollypop here, she's scribed since 2016, I 'know' her son well and everytime LP posts I learn more, it helps us support, it helps us get unstuck.

Last year I felt stuck in my learning, it was a very busy non BPD personal time for me.

I look forward to being present and learning with you FB and parents.

WDx

[Feeling Better]

Hi WD, thanks for your well wishes 

FB, I do think your DS is expecting a response, in your good time, there is no rush. What does he want to hear?

He wants me to acknowledge the problem and he wants me to acknowledge him. Acknowledging him is the easy part. I’m not really sure any more what he perceives as being the problem. If he wants me to agree with him that his sister is evil I cannot do that. I can acknowledge that there is a problem, that much is true.

It may be helpful, if you feel comfortable to share more about your son with us, his young years, his friendships, his talents, his interpersonal relationships, school, learning, things you remember, good times, cherished memories.

This is the painful part, remembering him and especially my relationship with him, it reminds me of what I have lost. But then maybe it just wasn’t mine to keep.

He was always very loving, more so than his sisters, very sensitive and his heart would break over the smallest thing, and he always came to me to be comforted. He was a really happy boy, had lots of friends, enjoyed Beavers, then Cubs and then Scouts. He went to swimming club and participated in many after school activities. Once he moved to senior school he lost touch with his primary school friends, (some went to a different school), and as his school was a bus ride away he didn’t really get chance to see many friends after school. He went to college to study for A levels, we didn’t find out from college until the first year was almost over that he’d hardly been attending. Despite this he got good grades (virtually taught himself maths and further maths). He is very intelligent and academic, able to self teach himself a lot of subjects. He is very good at articulating his thoughts and feelings. He had lots of friends when he went to uni and he still maintains some of those friendships. He is widely travelled and has lived in a few different countries and has probably had lots of girlfriends, I’ve met some in the past, some really nice girls. Both H and I think that he probably doesn’t always treat them well. We never understood why. While he was living in other countries he used to teach English and when he worked in the UK he taught English to foreign students. He went back to uni about 5 or 6 years ago and qualified as a teacher. He has liked to participate in what I consider to be risky activities such as white water kayaking, cycling for three months alone around Central America and he has also cycled solo across Europe.

We used to have a really close relationship, he would always confide in me, and we used to do things together. I played with his toys with him when he was little, computer games as he got older and all of us would play other games too. I taught him to knit. We used to sit next to each other sometimes to do crosswords, leaning in towards each other, we used to be so comfortable with each other. We used to walk the dogs together. We have the same sense of humour, and we would just giggle together. He took me to see Les Miserables, he baked me a cake once for my birthday. You know, I’m writing all this down and as I’m writing I’m thinking of how much he must have loved me, maybe he did put me on a pedestal, and his world must have come crashing down when he knocked me off.

There’s lots more obviously, I hope what I’ve written gives some insight into who he is.

FB x

[JNChell]

He’s a good boy that loves his mother. He’s off track. He loves you. He just doesn’t know where to place it. FB, a boy loves his mother. Trust that.

He wants me to acknowledge the problem and he wants me to acknowledge him. Acknowledging him is the easy part. I’m not really sure any more what he perceives as being the problem.

Acknowledge and validate him first. The problem might be a sub type thing. It might go away is what I’m trying to say. Maybe your first response should be overbriming with reasonable validation. Nothing that makes him feel obligated to respond to. Just be truthful and validate him. Keep yourself in bounds and if you find what you’re typing causes you to become emotional, back space immediately. Baby steps for getting your baby back.

Make it all about him in a truthful way. Make it all about him with being a virtuous mother.

[DharmaGate]

Feeling Better, Man these people here love you, so nice to read.  I just had time to read through your thread and boy did you give your son a great life in his younger years, from reading i believe you laid the foundation for many of the cool things he has done later in life.

This may be off if so feel free to ignore.  When i was reading about “the Problem” and his belief about the evil sister, i instantly thought of what my dad and we just went through.  Like your son, my dad kept talking horrible about my brother and wanted me to take action against him. I wouldnt and this kept going on for weeks until i blew about a week ago.  Anyway from reading on here and being gently confronted, i forced myself to try and think like my dad, begrudgingly.  I thought wowosh he might feel abandoned that i did not side with him against my brother.  I felt this was ridiculous to be honest but put it in the back of my mind.  I called my dad for his bday a few days ago, kept it short but said i realized you may have felt abandoned when i didn't side with you.  The whole energy changed, he said thank you.  He did feel abandoned.  I was shocked.  I don't agree at all, but that is what he felt.  It is a little hard for me to wrap my mind around all this misery because of one feeling, but there it is. I would not have known other than coming here.  Anyway just sharing all that in case this might be anywhere close with your son.  And the whole reason my dad had it in for my brother is he felt threatened, bested by my brother. A usual sibling feeling.  Anyway it is so clear you provided wonderful times together as a child.  You are so strong to be here helping others, thank you.

[JNChell]

FB, I hope you are feeling better lately. You visit other boards. So do I. I’m trying to “broaden my horizons”. . Really, I’m trying to broaden my perspective because this stuff has affected my life in a severe way. Just differently. I just wanted to say hi this evening. I hope you’re well.

Any footballs, Lucy?

[wendydarling]

FB      

Thanks for sharing your son with us, I know it's not easy for you, it is however your truth, I think it's important we share our truth, our reality and perspective, our love and care. I totally relate to your experience as a Mum with a sensitive child, they come to us for support when they need to, a fun, loving, supportive, sharing, caring and respectful relationship. If we knew their challenges ahead of adulthood like we do now, we'd be all be in a better place. Huat our Elder parent, grandparent kindly and often reminds us of this, passing on her wisdom to us, we are doing our best. Thx Huat!    

You know, I’m writing all this down and as I’m writing I’m thinking of how much he must have loved me, maybe he did put me on a pedestal, and his world must have come crashing down when he knocked me off.

Your son clearly loves you dearly , and yes his world along with yours must have come crashing down when he knocked you off. My DD's father did the did the same to me FB, he placed me on a pedestal and when I was 7 months pregnant the most precious life experience, he left, blew my world upside down, and eventually his... .……he is in our life.

DG I can understand how hard it is to wrap your head round. Good for you stepping out and helping your Dad feel understood, we all need that  

FB, no stone unturned.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

JNChell
Thanks again for your kind comments and support 

You know, before anything else, I want to let you know that I think you are amazing and I really admire you. You have been through so much in your life, being raised in an abusive household, finding yourself in a relationship with someone wBPD. You have worked so hard on yourself since you got here, and still continue to do so. You give so much back to others, including me, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart JNChell for being here, and for being you.

Yes, validation, validation, validation! I’m on it. I will do a draft first, see how it goes. I have to get myself into the right frame of mind first. It’s certainly helping to be able to talk about it.

I do trust that my son loves me JNChell, I managed to break through his massive barrier, his coping mechanism, one time and it was like old times and he told me he loved me. The next time I saw him though, the barrier was back up and I’ve not been able to penetrate it since. I like what you say about him being off track, he sure is. Thanks for the validation, it means a lot.

My baby boy was the baby of the family. He’s 36 now 

FB, I hope you are feeling better lately. You visit other boards. So do I. I’m trying to “broaden my horizons”. . Really, I’m trying to broaden my perspective because this stuff has affected my life in a severe way. Just differently. I just wanted to say hi this evening. I hope you’re well.

Any footballs, Lucy?

I’ve read loads of your posts right from when you first arrived here, I don’t think it was that long after I arrived here myself, so I am aware of how severely your life has been affected by BPD and I am sorry that you had to go through that. If there is anything that you can gain from what you went through, one thing is definitely your son, and the other is the awareness and insight that you have which will lead you forward in your relationship with your son.

Thanks for dropping by to say “Hi”, last night   I am well, thanks for asking, I hope that you are well too. Have you seen your son this weekend?

Haha! Lucy indeed! Sometimes I wonder why I have her as my avatar because I’m nothing like her, but I do like her big smile, which makes me smile. I’m too lazy to change her and I guess she’s metamorphosed into FB by now anyway 

That’s it for tonight, still got the dog to sort out, then off to bed, I’ll be back tomorrow to respond to you DG, and you WD, here’s a hug for each of you   

FB x

[JNChell]

FB, your words brought tears. Thank you. 

[Good2behere]

Hi Feeling Better,

I just read this thread, and I don't really know all of what you have been through with your son, but I felt moved to reply.

I am starting to have a relationship with my dd again. I don't think I had to go through 2 uninterrupted years of NC from her, and so I don't want to presume that I know what this long awaited reply means for you. I only remember how it felt when she would turn up somewhere still alive and in one piece, physically. It was such a mixture of relief and joy and anger, and fear of it somehow all slipping away again. In the mix was a feeling of anxiety that I would say the wrong thing, or not know how to handle her distortions when they came flying at me.

There were many people who were supportive of our family during these rough times, but who mainly just wanted her to stop causing us grief. That would mean that they only had her to worry about, and not both her and the rest of us to worry about. So, I could understand their point. Even my therapist said something along the lines of, "perhaps you have already done all that can be done, and there may not be any more you can do." I accepted that as a possibility at some level, but at a deeper level, I still had faith. Not a specific belief that something in particular would work, just a sense that even one small thing, kept small, could lead to another.

When my dd wasn't painting me as the wicked witch, she would turn on her younger sister. She once accused her of being born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Her sister could not make her see the illogic of this-- that she had been born into the same family, with all of the same resources and opportunities.

They're not close as I once had dreamed they'd be, but they do some texting and exchange gifts. They haven't seen each other for a few years, but I'm amazed that they at least go through the motions, even if their feelings toward each other are fragile.

On your particular situation and "the problem" with your son's sister, I read with interest what DharmaGate had to say about all that. That feeling of betrayal does seem to be at the heart of it. Your son might be perceiving the previous Happy Occasion emails as simply emotionless spam, even though you know that they were filled with much more.

Sometimes I think that BPD, in some cases, is not always so much a fear of abandonment as it is a fear of not getting one's needs met. Perhaps your son feels (clearly I am only speculating on the lives of people I have never met, so please forgive me) that by you not faulting his sister as forcefully as he would like, then you no longer have his back. It seems like that feeling of being supported is crucial to him for feeling cared about and protected.

I think it may be possible to communicate to him that you can see why he feels the way he does about her, about you, given what he believes to be true. It's tricky, for sure. But I think the right words will come to you on how to show him that you "get" his perspective, without participating in a character assassination of your daughter. I.E., she doesn't have to be wrong in order for him to be right. You can show that your main concern is to know how all of this has affected him without allowing yourself to be put in a position of arbiter between them.

If I sound like this is clear and easy, and that you have never thought of all of this before, I apologize and don't intend that. I think, mostly, I am happy for you that you got a reply, and things might not be so rigid in his mind. I will certainly be hoping that for you.

G2B

[Feeling Better]

Hi DG
Thank you so much for your input and your kind words 

I like your idea that the problem could be due to him feeling abandoned, and to be honest, I hadn’t really considered that as an option. One thing that he said to me once was that I had chosen to sacrifice my relationship with him for the relationship I had with his sister. He also said that the reason probably was because I had more to lose ie. the whole family which includes my two grandsons if I chose him over his sister. Then he said that it probably wouldn’t have made any difference anyway. I’ve just been reading through some notes that I made when all of this was kicking off, and he told me that he thought his sister had a personality disorder. Sounds like he was probably projecting.

I’m so glad that once you realised what the problem was with your dad, that you managed to smooth things over. Thank you so much for sharing that 

WD
You are right, what I have shared is my truth, and my son has a different truth, his truth. Yes, I love that Huat reminds us that we can only do better once we know better, and if we’d been equipped with all the tools years ago we would have done better.

I am so sorry WD that your DD’s father knocked you off your pedestal too, so cruel, and you being 7 months pregnant at the time too    It must have been devastating for you.
Are you saying that DD’s father is back in your lives now?

JNChell

FB, your words brought tears. Thank you. 

Some of your words also have moved me to tears JNChell, we are on emotional journeys.

So, I guess I got my own back then.
In a kind and good way 

G2B
Thanks for your reply, it’s good to see you here.

You talk about the mix of emotions very eloquently, thank you.

Even my therapist said something along the lines of, "perhaps you have already done all that can be done, and there may not be any more you can do." I accepted that as a possibility at some level, but at a deeper level, I still had faith. Not a specific belief that something in particular would work, just a sense that even one small thing, kept small, could lead to another.

Thank you for this, I remember my counsellor saying something very similar to me, and she also said that when I feel that it’s the right time to try and reconnect with my son, I have to be prepared for the fact that it might not be the right time for him. I am ok with that. I believe too that one small thing sometimes can lead to another. We just don’t know what the future holds.

They're not close as I once had dreamed they'd be, but they do some texting and exchange gifts. They haven't seen each other for a few years, but I'm amazed that they at least go through the motions, even if their feelings toward each other are fragile.

I am pleased for you to hear this, there is something there for them to build on, their doors to each other are still open.

On your particular situation and "the problem" with your son's sister, I read with interest what DharmaGate had to say about all that. That feeling of betrayal does seem to be at the heart of it.

Yes, I thought I’d hit the nail on the head with the feeling of betrayal, (but I didn’t connect it to abandonment), when I wrote about it in a letter to him a while ago, but sadly it made no difference.

Sometimes I think that BPD, in some cases, is not always so much a fear of abandonment as it is a fear of not getting one's needs met. Perhaps your son feels (clearly I am only speculating on the lives of people I have never met, so please forgive me) that by you not faulting his sister as forcefully as he would like, then you no longer have his back. It seems like that feeling of being supported is crucial to him for feeling cared about and protected.

Thank you so much, this makes total sense to me, I had never thought of it in this way before.

I think it may be possible to communicate to him that you can see why he feels the way he does about her, about you, given what he believes to be true. It's tricky, for sure. But I think the right words will come to you on how to show him that you "get" his perspective, without participating in a character assassination of your daughter. I.E., she doesn't have to be wrong in order for him to be right. You can show that your main concern is to know how all of this has affected him without allowing yourself to be put in a position of arbiter between them.

This has always been my sticking point in that I have always been able to put myself in his shoes and see things from his perspective, but before I came here, I lacked the skills to be able to tell him that without agreeing with him regarding his sister. You are right, I will find the right words to say to him. Thank you so much for your input, it has been very helpful 

FB x

[JNChell]

FB

[DharmaGate]

I’m so glad that once you realised what the problem was with your dad, that you managed to smooth things over. Thank you so much for sharing that  Virtual hug

  thanks for hug!  unfortunately i was not clear, all i did with dad was establish that he felt something due to my telling him i would not side against my brother.  we did not talk long after that.  no miracle, quick fix solution here!

take care 

[JNChell]

How are things, FB? I’m sorry that my question is so delayed. I took some time off from the boards.