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Author Topic: Who are we as Non’s to “diagnose”?  (Read 656 times)
Red5
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« on: January 15, 2019, 12:36:45 PM »

Who are we as Non’s to “diagnose”?

So I’ve been thinking a lot lately, more than usual, a very dangerous pastime for me : )

So my marriage is hard on the rocks, has been for years now maybe, maybe the entire time, eight years.

Certainly the dating period three point five years was fraught with a break up like every three months or so…  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)

So when did I think, started to think that my wife was a sufferer of borderline personality disorder?

How did I arrive at this?

Was it something I was looking for, as to “why” she acted the way she did / does?

I remember thinking perhaps she was “bi-polar”… as I equated that term with constant angry outburst, like one of my last squadron Sergeant Majors…that dude was a “shipwreck”… never knew when he was going to ex-PLODE!

Yes, as I was utterly clues for a very long time…

So somewhere about year five of the marriage… I was at my wits end with her, in total crisis… so it occurred to me to go to the internet for answers… I had to do something…

So I stumble across a couple of websites one night, after I did the very first google search, .I had typed in something along the lines of “why is my wife such a _____ all the time?”

I remember that night well, after yet another huge blowout, blowup, knock down, smash’em up fight… yeah, I was in crisis… “what in the world is her freaking problem”?

So I hit the “enter” button, and the returns popped up on my computer screen… pages and pages… so I started clicking and reading, and right clicking and opening up new windows for the ones that I really wanted to “dig into”…

I figured out the ”blogs”… the “drop down comments”… and guess what, there were many others out there, just like me, living in “chaos”… I was astounded… one after the other, after the other, after the other… hundreds, no thousands!

I thought to myself, Wow 

So as the weeks and succeeding months passed, I continued to read, I was engulfed, I read about depression, grief, PTSD, CPTSD, “then I started trying to “match up” what I was going through with my wife, to what other’s (specifically) were experiencing… there was the “bi-polar”… then “histrionic” was the first one I really latched onto… I’d heard the term narcissistic before… then… I read about borderlines… Holy Molly, that’s HER!

So the material I was reading, and the quite endless YouTube videos’… were referring to this “DSM”… I got to check this “DSM” out, more google searches returned the hard target… let’s see, there is “criteria” here… only have to meet “nine”… oh’ no : (

She is at an eight, or a hard seven… so she is a BPD?

Is this it?… is this “why”?

So where does this come from, _WHAT_ causes it… “can I fix it”?

So my common sense inner voice(‘s) says to me… “dude”, you are _NOT_ a shrink, you are not a “clinician”… you ain’t that smart partner ()… yeah you were married to a crazy one for twenty-one years previously, but that doesn’t make you able to diagnose this, or anything else… just because you read a trainload of “info” all about it on the internet… you haven’t even bought this book they keep talking about, this “Egg Shells” book… this book keeps popping up, like a “runestone” within an “enigma machine”…

But the little dude on the right shoulder fixed his bayonet, and pointed it at the the little dude on my left shoulder, and said… “damn it man, we need answers NOW!”.

So I remember one of the very first things I read, was about this ‘waif-hermit-queen-witch’ thing… so, who is my wife?… which one is she?

Link to actual story ~> https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61982.0#top

(Thanks Skip)

Hmmmm,

This one post out of that thread struck me right between the eyes… BAM…

Excerpt
Re: BPD BEHAVIORS: Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch

« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2014, 11:06:26 AM » /bobcat2014/… “I can say without a doubt my wife is a combination of Waif, Witch and Queen, it depends on which one she is that day or situation.

The Waif is the easiest to deal with as she is somewhat down and at least will listen and be comforted.

The Queen version is the uppity entitled version that looks down on everyone else. I cant stand this one either. She will discard my compliments but accept anything from any other male. This version also points out my lack of ability to make her happy.

The Witch is for those split black. Unforgiving, revenge and punishment. This tends to be the scariest and where my hopelessness comes from. This is the worst version by far.”

Ok, I’ve droned on far too long… so to put “bookends” on this post,

Who am I, to presume that my lovely wife is indeed disordered, or is it really me, am I BPD?… did I do this to her, did I make her seemingly endlessly angry, ALL the time…

Or… was it her foo, “nature-nurture”… was it mum, and daddy?… who did this to her, I got to know!

Who am I to attach this “label” to her… this BPD?

How did I arrive at this conclusion all by myself here, is it really that easy… just like that… is it even valid?

I “just” started seeing a professional therapist all about this last October… before the the “event” that foisted our marriage firmly up on the shoals…

I hadn’t been to talk to any kind of “T” for over fifteen years, maybe since 2003, down by the dry-dock on Parris Island was her office… I went to see her like three times, and she told me “what do you ever do for yourself Gunny, you seem to always be taking care of everybody else,  ... .what about you?”…

I digress…

So, just who am I exactly to determine this alleged and or suspected dx of BPD for my beautiful but “damaged” wife,  and then follow the endless trail, the illuminated course of information in regards to borderline personality disorder?

WHAT IF I AM WRONG ?/!

I don’t even have a college degree, but I’ve sure read a whole H3LL of a lot on this stuff… since the Christmas of 2016… after she “ripped” down the Christmas tree in a rage… on Christmas Eve : (

I’ve been living in this for eleven years, hard time for eight years… so does operational experience alone allow me to “self-diagnose her”?

I probably know her better than anyone else in this whole miserable world at the moment…

I do not know, of a single time, she has ever darkened the door of a trained, and licensed therapist, or a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist… to “report in”… nope, I don’t.

Other than the three, hour long marriage counseling session we went to back in 2011… “three hours”, that’s it.

She did say however, back in October, that “you Red5 should start seeing someone, as you are under so much pressure with caring for me, & my c-ancer dx, and as well your special needs son, you need to talk to someone other than me”… she added, that, her local doctor had advised her to seek a therapist, to help cope with her illness (c-ancer)… she said she made an appointment, but backed out (wow)…

But that’s it…

So is she really a pw/BPD?… is she?

And who am I to have made this determination on her part,“for me?”… “who am I to diagnose?”.

Red5
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 01:20:54 PM »

Probably 95% of us here have no professional background to hazard a diagnosis, but we do have eyes and ears that allow us to notice patterns.

It’s good that you question yourself and want to be certain that your critical thinking skills are on point. However you have a long history of observing her behavior.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck—it most likely is a duck.
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 01:37:03 PM »

Red5

With having lived with her over a decade, there is plenty of experience there if you would see someone qualified and ask them/provide them with the traits they need to tick box and make a diagnosis from afar.

It is not psychoanalysing out of thin air, you were at the front line of it all. plenty of raw data to feed towards the tick box evaluation.

All id like to say though is, my ex did have an official diagnosis. in the big picture, it just gave me a clue that led me here. These diagnosis are fallible too.

As much as you could go to a dozen different therapists and not have every single one suggest that you are codependent.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2019, 01:49:45 PM »

Hi Red5,

We're not professionals and cannot diagnose only a professional can do that but what we can look at are traits of the disorder. I had mentioned BPD to my T and sister and both asked if she was diagnose that pretty much kills the conversation Outside of this group I only talk about it to my mom because my mom is the one that said that she's BPD because she was on a vacation with us and my uBPDw was really stressed and took out her stress on me in the form of a rage right in front of my and the kids.

My mom works with kids and sometimes deals with mothers that have BPD traits. We talk about it all of the time, I'm fine with not talking about it in real life I'll talk about it but in a direct way for example when my ex is emotionally dysregulated and the kids pick up on that I say that she's really stressed and some people don't handle stress very well I'm sorry that it's a difficult at home with mom when she's like that. I would suggest to not get hung up on the diagnosis we talk about BPD traits and remember to not pathologize everything not every behaviour is a pathology.
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2019, 02:04:20 PM »


If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck—it most likely is a duck.


This.
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 02:41:12 PM »

So as the weeks and succeeding months passed, I continued to read, I was engulfed, I read about depression, grief, PTSD, CPTSD, “then I started trying to “match up” what I was going through with my wife, to what other’s (specifically) were experiencing … there was the “bi-polar” … then “histrionic” was the first one I really latched onto … I’d heard the term narcissistic before … then …. I read about borderlines …. Holy Molly, that’s HER!

So the material I was reading, and the quite endless YouTube videos’ … were referring to this “DSM” … I got to check this “DSM” out, …. more google searches returned the hard target … let’s see, there is “criteria” here … only have to meet “nine” … oh’ no : (

She is at an eight, or a hard seven … so she is a BPD?

the authors of the DSM recommend against looking at the criteria as a checklist and reaching conclusions. during the diagnostic process, each trait is examined on a grid in terms of severity, long term history, several other factors. its a complicated process, and "diagnosis should be made by professionals" is no mere cliche.

diagnosis is based a lot less on how the person in questions behavior effects someone like you or me, and more on how ingrained traits and behaviors impact their own lives over time, and in terms of severity. think of OCD and how many people youve heard self diagnose themselves with it. OCD traits can have a major impact on a romantic or close relationship, and lots of people have traits. its diagnosed when it severely impacts and limits a persons own life.

for some perspective on this, most of the exes and partners you read about on this site would not reach the threshold for a BPD diagnosis and would be considered subclinical. clinical BPD is rare and effects only about 2% of the population (all personality disorders combined being about 9%)

Excerpt
what we can look at are traits of the disorder.

picking on what Mutt mentioned, what that doesnt account for is BPD traits and a BPDish personality/coping style, which describes a larger percentage of the population, most ex partners here, and even some of us. make no mistake, BPD traits/personality style can make for a very difficult person, even an extremely difficult person, just not necessarily as severe as we often make them out to be.  

we often talk about how the outside world doesnt see what we see, how our exes get along with, even thrive elsewhere. clinical BPD is usually far more obvious. it looks like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/health/23lives.html (additionally, most of the loved ones described on the Son or Daughter board are diagnosed, many on the more severe end of the spectrum).

so who are we as "nons"? we are people who have struggled with hurtful behavior from a difficult person, who need a balanced and realistic understanding of what we went through, how we got here, and how we can heal. BPD as a label, if used responsibly, can aid us in that.
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 02:55:37 PM »

This.

Excerpt
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck—it most likely is a duck.

 Paragraph header (click to insert in post)(Humor)

Could be a very confused chicken... .who is projecting, and has barnyard “duck rejection” issues... .

Laugh now... .all together !

Love y’all !

Red5
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 03:11:04 PM »

Excerpt
OR wrote, .”each trait is examined on a grid in terms of severity, long term history, several other factors. ”

Grid = Spectrum to me.

The spectrum within the spectrum... .

Severity of the presented individual trait.

For instance, this criteria... .”A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

This one can be put on a grid, ie’ how many relationships... .over how long a period to time... .

For further example... .the “idealization and devaluation” could have happen from days, to weeks all the way out to years.

This is a broad and a expansive process imho... .to dx a borderline, certainly not something I could do on my own... .yeah!

There may even be other comorbid things going on at the same time.

BLUF, the person who lives with a person each day, day in day out, suffering through it with the suspected BPD’er... .any explanation can be life, relief, and understanding... .respite,

We all would like to know, “why we hurt”.

Red5

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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 03:28:23 PM »

In my case, my h has seen counselors -- 2 within the past 4 years. They haven't officially diagnosed probably because it's uncool to dx someone as BPD. What they have said was things like emotional instability on a personality level and an attachment disorder. H also freely talks about depression and anxiety and the new one is highly sensitive personality (I'm not pointing out to him that people who are hsp have boatloads of empathy).  
I don't usually describe it as BPD - my counselor friends have cautioned me against that. I can describe the weirdness and oddities without giving the whole thing. For myself, BPD is kind of a short hand for the bucket of all the different areas of relationship stress and confusion that I experience.

Personality disorders exist on a spectrum. One of the areas that therapists look at is whether the person experiences significant difficulties due to the condition - does it interfere with their lives? I think most people adapt or make the difficulties into positives, at least internally.
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 03:28:46 PM »

For me, I searched out answers as to what happened and what I was dealing with after she left for good. I stumbled upon this site and others. When I look at all of the symptoms of BPD, she essentially has every single one, and strong.

Ours was not a relationship of "knock down dragout" fights. In fact, we didn't ever even "fight." But it was fraught with her uncontrollable emotions, fits of crying and acting out when there was really no reason for it. Her emotions were not regulated at all, and completely abnormal for the situations at hand. She would even admit it, saying things like "I make compulsive decisions without even thinking" and "I know I act crazy sometimes." It's sad, in hindsight.

Despite all of it, I still miss her terribly. I am hurting lately, and it's been over a year. Even with her flaws, I loved taking her into my arms and holding her. She did have many good traits, too. I chose to look at the good rather than the bad, and I got burned.
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 03:36:12 PM »

Grid = Spectrum to me.
... .
ie’ how many relationships ... .over how long a period to time... .

careful. a grid is a diagnostic tool, and not a subjective or relative understanding of spectrum.

There may even be other comorbid things going on at the same time.

and some of them can on the surface look very much alike, for example:

Excerpt
Complicating Factors  When we encounter high conflict or destructive relationship behaviors it is important for us to know that the problems can be caused by a broad range of things that look a lot alike:

    immaturity,
    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),
    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),
    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),
    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),
    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),
    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or
    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

there are other issues to take into account, like cultural issues, or circumstantial ones. a lot of us go back and forth between hating and pining for our exes - idealization and devaluation. a depressed person will tend to exhibit a lot of black and white thinking.

This is a broad and a expansive process imho

it is. its complicated. the links in the first drop box in the top left corner are really great for understanding the complexities, and using the label responsibly. i especially like this one: https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 04:05:52 PM »

Studies have shown that non's and professionals tend to have the same capacities to diagnose people with mental illnesses.The non's are able to describe all the same symptoms as the professionals. The big difference is the non's often don't know the names of the disorders that apply to the people with mental illness.
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 04:20:06 PM »

I think it is even harder for professionals to diagnose, as  they do not know the person they are diagnosing. Someone with mental illness can lie, withhold information, and appear to be normal. Happens all the time...   It is the person in a close personal relationship with the BPD that sees and experiences all of it.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 07:26:19 PM »

I think it is even harder for professionals to diagnose, as  they do not know the person they are diagnosing. Someone with mental illness can lie, withhold information, and appear to be normal. Happens all the time...   It is the person in a close personal relationship with the BPD that sees and experiences all of it.

Amen.
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2019, 04:46:36 AM »

No we certainly can’t although many of us, myself included attempt to.

Light-heartedly I came across this at my darkest hour a few weeks back


https://youtu.be/qXlC7qRJXFg


I try my hardest not to now, we certainly can identify many traits through or shared time
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2019, 05:55:50 AM »

My ex girlfriend with BPD traits had been seeing a psychologist before we started dating, and told me she had been diagnosed with mild Aspergers. I read a little about this, but it did not match her subsequent behaviours. After we broke up, I described her behaviour to two people who have experience with mental health issues and they both said adamantly BPD (and both added the proviso of ‘don’t quote me’ ‘only a health professional can say for certain’ ‘don’t tell her’ Run for the hills’ Etc

I knew nothing of BPD, but all of a sudden everything I was reading made sense of the situation. In my humble opinion her Aspergers diagnosis may be true, but being highly functioning I think it is also likely that she has not revealed her true self to her psychologist. The other possibility is she never told me her true diagnostics sis. Either way, we are left to fill in gaps, make a diagnosis of sorts, make some sense of a brutal experience. BPD is the only thing that comes close to describing my experiences.

When you are passenger in a car and your partner is driving above the speed limit with only one hand lazily at the bottom of the wheel, you do wonder what the hell is going on. When she calmly tells you she has no feeling for you, when she gets insanely jealous because someone gave you a hug, when she retells ‘history’ different to how it happened, when she hides her past, when she recycles an ex who she had badmouthed, when she has suicide ideation, when she behaves completely differently depending upon the company she is in, when she has a number of male orbiters, when she idolised me beyond reality and then discarded me, when she mirrored me and my interests, when she blamed me for everything on the way out the door, when she had a traumatic childhoods d and a mother that appears to have mental issues sues, I’m quite happy to say BPD is the right diagnosis.

I may never get the opportunity for this to be verified, and from what I understand, she would never let a health professional know what you a needed for this to occur. The irony... .she works in the health field.
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2019, 06:17:58 AM »

Red, none of us are professionally qualified to officially diagnose anyone. However, we live with certain behavioral patterns and if they fit a model that helps us to understand our situation I think we are able to make sense of things.

I think it would be a problem if we only looked at our partner- and used this "diagnosis" to absolve ourselves of our parts in this. Ironically, once we consider a partner has BPD or BPD traits, much of the work of dealing with this is working on ourselves. If someone else's "diagnosis"  leads me to do work on myself that is valuable, then that has merit too.

Then there is the "if it looks like a duck". Our grandmothers didn't have medical degrees, but they knew chicken pox when they saw it. They didn't need a doctor to tell them their kid had chicken pox, and they had their home remedies to help with it. Humans have been using their minds and common sense to "diagnose" for a long time ( and that common sense also includes seeing professionals when needed).

I'd say don't over-estimate our ability to "diagnose" but also don't underestimate our abilities to observe behaviors or like grandma- look at a rash on a kid- and use our knowledge to make sense of them.
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2019, 08:59:31 AM »

When you are passenger in a car and your partner is driving above the speed limit with only one hand lazily at the bottom of the wheel, you do wonder what the hell is going on. When she calmly tells you she has no feeling for you, when she gets insanely jealous because someone gave you a hug, when she retells ‘history’ different to how it happened, when she hides her past, when she recycles an ex who she had badmouthed, when she has suicide ideation, when she behaves completely differently depending upon the company she is in, when she has a number of male orbiters, when she idolised me beyond reality and then discarded me, when she mirrored me and my interests, when she blamed me for everything on the way out the door, when she had a traumatic childhoods d and a mother that appears to have mental issues sues, I’m quite happy to say BPD is the right diagnosis.

I may never get the opportunity for this to be verified, and from what I understand, she would never let a health professional know what you a needed for this to occur. The irony... .she works in the health field.

All the above. and my ex had a BPD diagnosis. It is really strange to read posts like this and it is yours amongst so many others and it is like I could have written it verbatim from my own experience each time.

As a side note to the one doing the diagnosing - is it too far to say that we can assume they themselves are a 'non'? just to add to the complexity. Ive heard that there are many therapists with BPD as much as I also get a disturbing recollection of my ex wanting to be a doctor (she made me more ill than anyone id ever met in life)
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2019, 10:36:04 AM »

As a side note to the one doing the diagnosing - is it too far to say that we can assume they themselves are a 'non'? just to add to the complexity. Ive heard that there are many therapists with BPD as much as I also get a disturbing recollection of my ex wanting to be a doctor (she made me more ill than anyone id ever met in life)

I've read, in multiple blogs, websites, internet articles, over the past two or so weeks... .that there is quite a lot of "metric data" out there that says... .therapists who treat borderlines, both initial therapy, and follow on CBT, and DBT... .have a high "casualty rate", as in they don't last for too long in that area of therapy, .apparently its too taxing on them, its too "hot" for the clinician to be in so close proximity to the disordered person, who is sometimes (often) very toxic, .I read there is a two to five year "burnout" rate for these clinicians, therapists.

... .wow ; (

Ok, off track a little here... .

Excerpt
... .she made me more ill than anyone I'd ever met in life

This subject matter, last posts above, reminded me of that scene from the older movie (K19 The Widowmaker)... .where there is a leak in the cooling system in the submarines reactor compartment, .and the brave crewman who volunteer to go inside there, in nothing but chemical suits, to attempt to fix it, repair it, to save the submarine, and its crew, are exposed to so much radiation, that it makes them violently, and severely ill, sick from the leaking radiation from the reactor... .some even die for their efforts.

There is another movie, that depicts... .its called "Girl Interrupted"... .

The stuff, I read about DBT therapist kind of shook me to my core... .so, we the Non, have clandestinely dx' our partners?... .and now that we have this (suspect) information, albeit unconfirmed in most of our cases; by trained persons in the mental health field, now we look to what is next, to live with it, live parallel to it, or to let them "just go" when and if they do leave us.

Hope... .for things to "improve" one day, or to just let it go, and be dashed upon the rocks... .hope turned to hopelessness.

Every single story is different, each of us are at a different mile marker on our journeys... .but HEY!... .what an enlightenment, what an education!

Red5

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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2019, 12:26:54 PM »

I hear you Red5

I think with the hoping things to get better, it was because despite what she did I thought and believed she was at the core; a healthy good minded person that had just behaved this way for being a victim - she complained about her family background, school life, a catalogue of exs - but she also never told me at the time she had BPD. So I was naive to it all, until I had commited myself deeply emotionally and found it hard to back track.

Yep an education, but I only learned after leaving, the situation was too dynamic changing when together and not enough respite to reflect with at most 4 weeks apart. I was the proverbial babe in the woods as to what I was up against.

What id say is - hurtful - damaging - as it had been, I start to realise now just how much it taught me of myself as much as ive learned about my ex. Also that emotionally it felt disasterous, but i look back and realise there was a lot of strength there, resilience and smart choices in the midst of how difficult things could have been. Made mistakes but also acknowledge how much damage was prevented and how I recall turning bad days into good ones. Did the best I could and did it heartfelt, what more can anyone do.
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crushedagain
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2019, 08:12:04 PM »

Excerpt
... .When she calmly tells you she has no feeling for you, when she gets insanely jealous because someone gave you a hug, when she retells ‘history’ different to how it happened, when she hides her past, when she recycles an ex who she had badmouthed, when she has suicide ideation, when she behaves completely differently depending upon the company she is in, when she has a number of male orbiters, when she idolised me beyond reality and then discarded me, when she mirrored me and my interests, when she blamed me for everything on the way out the door... .

Wow, sounds like we were dating the same woman! She would call me her "king" one day, telling me I am perfect and have never done anything wrong, then the next day say I was responsible for making her cry every day of her life.

One day a young woman came to the door asking for directions. She treated the woman terribly and told her to "get out of here!" I asked her why the heck she would be so rude and she had a total meltdown about how I didn't support her or something, then it leaked out that the young woman was attractive and she felt threatened. Weird.

I saw an old work acquaintance one time and gave her a hug, something we had always done. I never heard the end of that. Another time I was talking to a couple neighbor women and she was off sulking by herself, then later told me "I see you've found my replacement!"

Early on she liked to talk about her exes, even though I told her I had no interest in hearing anything and thought it was bad conversation. She still managed to badmouth a few of them, but on another occasion told me her most recent ex and she were "perfect" for each other. I was highly insulted and told her maybe they should get back together. That pissed me off.

Mine also "mirrored" my interests, but as the relationship wore on she started criticizing many of those things, almost like she was resentful of them. She really had no interests of her own. She essentially enmeshed herself 100% in my life. Though we only lived together 2 years, I spent more time with her than I did my previous gf of 5 years.

As far as orbiters, towards the end I was suspicious of what she was doing on the computer, and rightfully so. She was "setting things up" before she basically disappeared on me. It wasn't necessarily a new man, just a new "situation" since she lived with me and didn't have a place of her own. She had an easy life with me, it couldn't get any easier.
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2019, 10:18:43 PM »

I was a diagnosing fool when I showed up here. Diagnosing led me to this place. If I remember right, I heard it said a few months ago that there are 276 ways that a borderline can be comorbid with something else. Many are comorbid. The member that shared this stat with me is married to a borderline male who is in recovery and is dx exclusively with BPD. It sounded like things were going well for them.

I’m happy for her and also envy her. She put in the work while he is as well.
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2019, 11:02:23 PM »

Excerpt
therapists who treat borderlines, both initial therapy, and follow on CBT, and DBT ... .have a high "casualty rate", as in they don't last for too long in that area of therapy, ... .apparently its too taxing on them, its too "hot" for the clinician to be in so close proximity to the disordered person, who is sometimes (often) very toxic, ... .I read there is a two to five year "burnout" rate for these clinicians, therapists.

My h saw a t for nearly 2 years (monthly visits) -- the stated reason was for "marriage problems". He was telling her that I wanted a divorce and he needed to become okay with it... .  Except that the things that he was telling her didn't sound to her like I wanted a divorce... .  She managed to get him to allow her to talk with me and confirmed what she thought was going on... .  It wasn't too long after that visit that he stopped t with her... .  Eventually he said it wasn't really helpful... . 

Therapy isn't going to be helpful if clients are lying to the t... .  She's the one who said "personality level"... . 
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2019, 05:41:01 AM »

I grew up searching for an explanation for my BPD mother's behaviors. I didn't have the capacity for making any diagnosis, but by my early teens, I knew something was different about her and after taking a psychology class in high school, I was pretty sure she has some kind of "diagnosis". My friends' mothers didn't act like mine.

Later, my oldest child came home from her first psychology class saying " I think we studied grandma today". By then, BPD was known. I hadn't discussed it with my kids much but the kids themselves can put the pieces together and figure out she has BPD.

None of us are qualified to "diagnose" but having a name for and a set of tools to deal with how grandma behaves has been invaluable. Much of the emotional difficulties I have had with her have been from not knowing, or understanding why she acts like she does or knowing how to respond to it. It's not about putting a label or diagnosis on someone. It's about finding a guide map after feeling lost.

The label may or may not help them- but that's up to them. My mother also lied to the therapists- and that made it impossible to help her, but the "diagnosis" has helped me to learn about myself and also how to deal with her.
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