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Author Topic: 6 month old child unmarried teenage couple  (Read 460 times)
Ganggang
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« on: January 16, 2019, 09:29:13 AM »

Me(male, 18, father) and my ex(female, 19, mother ) have recently broken up she moved back from TN to KY and took our 6 month old daughter. She refuses to let me keep her overnight. She leaves her with her dad and stepmom to take care of her so she can “hangout” with friends. The last I talked with her she said she had been “hanging out” with friends and out of curiosity and a slight bit of jealousy I asked “oh cool who’s your friends” she tells me the name of a guy she used to FW before her and I met. She really has nothing to do with our daughter anymore and she hasn’t contacted me about our daughter In the past TWO days and I’m so worried because she has BPD (diagnosed not treated/no counseling) so i know she can be impulsive and fall for this guy again really quick(she’s already fell really hard for another guy three days after she left which was 12/27/18). After all that’s what happened to us. We were together for only a year and 5 months. I got really attached and I still want to be with her but my main concern is the well being of our daughter and I was wondering if there was any possibility of proving her unfit or at least getting primary custody to were she gets visits or something besides her dad and stepmom keeping her. I know that I won’t be nothing but “dumbass” in my daughters eyes if she stays there. The last time I talked with (mother) her dad handed her the phone and said “dumbass is on the phone” but anyway she lives with her dad, step mom, and her stepmoms mom. Her dad is a convicted felon(multiple), he owns and has two weapons on his property one being a sawed off shotgun. Her father deals meth, pain pills(you name it he’ll sell it to you) he has to keep (mothers) stepmom and stepmoms mom up in dope/neurotins/nerve pills anything really. The house is crawling with roaches(walk to bathroom turn on light and there’s at least 15-20 just on wall and ceiling they don’t even scatter) the kitchen when you turn the light on in the middle of the night the whole counter top moves, they’re in the microwave, stove, and fridge literally everything. I just want my daughter out of those living conditions and would appreciate ANY advice/comments on my situation

                Thank you,
          A concerned father
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kells76
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 10:31:34 AM »

Hi Ganggang, glad you found the site, and welcome  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

What a tough situation you're in. You're doing a good job focusing on what's important:

Excerpt
I got really attached and I still want to be with her but my main concern is the well being of our daughter

Your daughter's mom is an adult, but your daughter is a child, and it sounds like from the way you described things, doesn't have many adults looking out for her. So good job on focusing on putting your daughter first. That's a really important mindset.

Recognizing what's real about how your ex operates is a good step, too. It sounds like you acknowledge that she will probably move on to another guy, and she seems to not be very interested in your D (short for daughter). As sad as that is for your D, it might help you as you make a case for being the primary parent.

I'm guessing that money is tight right now? A lot of us have been there. That being said, something really helpful could be getting a one-time consultation with a lawyer or two. You don't have to put them on retainer (i.e. give them thousands of $) just for a one time meeting of an hour or so. It still might cost you a hundred or two hundred bucks, but a good L (short for lawyer) can help you think straight about your situation and come up with some plans for how to proceed. Plus, usually any L you even talk to on the phone then can't talk to your ex. Oh, and you don't have to tell your ex or her family that you're doing this.

As you figure out how to be there for your D, write down everything you do for her and try to do for her. Write down when you spend time with her, what good Dad stuff you do & have done (change diapers? give her a bottle?), when you try to call, if your call is blocked, if you send her a card, if the card gets returned... .all of it. Keep your log in a safe place.

How's your support system? Good relationships with your family? Anyone left in your ex's family (brothers, cousins, etc) that you're still on OK terms with? Solid friends who will speak for your character?

You're doing the best you can by reaching out here for more support. Keep asking us questions and letting us know how we can help. You're in a really hard place, but you're starting out with your focus on loving your D, so that's awesome.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 10:52:36 AM »

I'll send kells -  I'm so glad that you are reaching out to find a way to help your daughter. 

If the living conditions are as bad as you say, you might want to consider calling Child Protective Services in the state that your ex is living now.  Let them know that roaches have infested the kitchens and living areas and that you believe your ex's father is dealing drugs, and that the other adults are addicted to drugs, and that your ex has an untreated mental illness.  Be as calm as you can and focus on facts and your desire to make sure that your child is safe.  CPS should open an investigation.

In the long run, you will want to have a signed custody order that specifies who takes care of your daughter when and who has the right to set your daughter's residence.  If you search for "standard custody order TN" or "standard custody order KY", you'll be able to find what those states think is fair.   You can try to negotiate an arrangement with your ex, based on the standard order, or based on what you think will work to make sure your daughter is cared for.  If negotiating with her doesn't work, you will have to bring her to court. 

If you have been very involved in parenting so far, you really ought to try to get a consultation with a lawyer and find out if you can file a suit to force her to bring your daughter back to your state.  Without a custody order, it might be hard to do that, but I don't know the rules in your state.

Through all of this, you need to show that you can be a good parent.  The documentation that kells talks about (how much interaction you have had with your daughter, your attempts to check on your child and the response) is important.  So is making sure you have a safe and clean home, that you have the supplies that you would need to take care of your daughter (a car seat, a place for her to sleep, diapers, etc), and that you have a plan for how to take care of her while you are working (daycare, family or friend to watch her?). 
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 11:01:23 AM »

Wow, we feel for you.  There's a whole list of things, some practical and some legal, that could help or hurt your efforts to be an involved father.

My first question, are you on the baby's birth certificate and listed as father?  Having that document will help you in an assortment of legal scenarios.  If you're the acknowledged father, that helps.  If you're not listed then likely at some point in the legal process you'll need a DNA test to prove fatherhood.  (If you have even the slightest reason to have doubts you're the father, then a DNA test is recommended to be sure.)

Very likely you'll have to realize your relationship with her was more or less doomed from the start by her disorder.  What that means in practical terms is that your daughter— who is a minor and whom you will have connection with forever — is now your proper top priority, above whether you regain a relationship with the mother or not.

Do you have any documentation that she's been diagnosed with BPD?  One behavior pattern with BPD is ultimate Denial.  Be prepared for her to be cast as the best mother ever and you the worst father ever.  Well, that's with the controller/entitled variety of BPD where the mother views her children as extensions and validation of herself.  I get the impression your ex isn't that into parenting, more concerned with adult relationships than being a parent?  A smaller portion of relationships described here by our members are like that, where the legal conflict is a bit lesser.  Your strategies to be a more involved father could be to cast yourself as the one to assume her burden of parenting, or at least more of it.

Another problem with Borderline PD is the erratic nature of the behaviors.  The challenge is to use that to your benefit, perhaps getting her to agree to things that benefit you when she's distracted with her new loves-of-the-moment.  While you want to reduce triggering her, you can't accomplish that 100%, so try to have the triggered incidents be about the more important parenting issues which we here in peer support (or your lawyer) can help you identify.

How long was she with you in TN?  How long has she been back in KY?  Here's why the timing may be different.  (And why you need the advice of a local family law attorney if you want to ponder legal actions.  Do not tell your ex, mutual friends or her family about your consultations, those are private and confidential.  Sharing TMI is very likely to sabotage yourself and your goals.)  Federal law, in an effort to normalize custody thresholds, states that custody cases be filed in the state (county?) of residence unless both parents agree otherwise.  Also, it takes a parent 6 months to establish a residence in another state for custody issues.  You can choose to file in your state and county and have her return for any domestic court hearings.  However, once she has been elsewhere for 6 months then she has an option to file in her state and county.  My question is, if you do choose to get court resolution, do you want it in your area or her new area?  Once she establishes residence "back home" it may turn out to be who can rush to the courthouse first.

Understand that there may be a bunch of legal hoops to jump through to get a favorable order through a court.  Right now you could call the local social/children's agency or police to ask for a safety check on your daughter and get a report.  That's of limited benefit with police, it could be as brief as "She's okay."  Social services may take a closer look at your daughter as well as her environment.  Understand though that a lot of little incidents or issues may be considered separately and not combined to rise to the level of triggering an 'actionable' event such as shifting her to your care.

If you can't work out a deal or settlement with your ex, then your alternative to parent would be through court action.  Sorry, it can take a long time but at least court is generally "less unfair" than a stubborn obstructive parent.  Unless the court's evaluators see you as a substantive risk to the child (abuse, neglect or endangerment) then you're virtually assured of alternate weekends (1.5 to 3 days) and an evening or overnight in between.  Be aware that some schedule outcomes for children under 3 years of age use a schedule of shorter but more frequent visits.  If you're not a substantial distance apart then a 'standard' schedule may be impractical.

The benefit of court is that you get some 'teeth' into your parental rights.  Without an order the police may acknowledge you each have equal but undefined parental rights, tell you to get an order from the court and default to mother in charge.  My story... .I faced that issue back in 2006.  We had temp orders but they were all dismissed.  She refused me any access to our preschooler, not even phone calls.  I asked the police to go along to her residence to ensure monitoring of the visit.  The response was No.  But when I asked what would happen if I went and she called them?  The answer was a definite, "We would rush to her aid!"  I decided I didn't want to risk an arrest and so waited on court, turned out to be 3 months of no contact with my son.
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Ganggang
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Posts: 2


« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 12:13:22 AM »

Wow, we feel for you.  There's a whole list of things, some practical and some legal, that could help or hurt your efforts to be an involved father.

My first question, are you on the baby's birth certificate and listed as father?  Having that document will help you in an assortment of legal scenarios.  If you're the acknowledged father, that helps.  If you're not listed then likely at some point in the legal process you'll need a DNA test to prove fatherhood.  (If you have even the slightest reason to have doubts you're the father, then a DNA test is recommended to be sure.)

Very likely you'll have to realize your relationship with her was more or less doomed from the start by her disorder.  What that means in practical terms is that your daughter— who is a minor and whom you will have connection with forever — is now your proper top priority, above whether you regain a relationship with the mother or not.

Do you have any documentation that she's been diagnosed with BPD?  One behavior pattern with BPD is ultimate Denial.  Be prepared for her to be cast as the best mother ever and you the worst father ever.  Well, that's with the controller/entitled variety of BPD where the mother views her children as extensions and validation of herself.  I get the impression your ex isn't that into parenting, more concerned with adult relationships than being a parent?  A smaller portion of relationships described here by our members are like that, where the legal conflict is a bit lesser.  Your strategies to be a more involved father could be to cast yourself as the one to assume her burden of parenting, or at least more of it.

Another problem with Borderline PD is the erratic nature of the behaviors.  The challenge is to use that to your benefit, perhaps getting her to agree to things that benefit you when she's distracted with her new loves-of-the-moment.  While you want to reduce triggering her, you can't accomplish that 100%, so try to have the triggered incidents be about the more important parenting issues which we here in peer support (or your lawyer) can help you identify.

How long was she with you in TN?  How long has she been back in KY?  Here's why the timing may be different.  (And why you need the advice of a local family law attorney if you want to ponder legal actions.  Do not tell your ex, mutual friends or her family about your consultations, those are private and confidential.  Sharing TMI is very likely to sabotage yourself and your goals.)  Federal law, in an effort to normalize custody thresholds, states that custody cases be filed in the state (county?) of residence unless both parents agree otherwise.  Also, it takes a parent 6 months to establish a residence in another state for custody issues.  You can choose to file in your state and county and have her return for any domestic court hearings.  However, once she has been elsewhere for 6 months then she has an option to file in her state and county.  My question is, if you do choose to get court resolution, do you want it in your area or her new area?  Once she establishes residence "back home" it may turn out to be who can rush to the courthouse first.

Understand that there may be a bunch of legal hoops to jump through to get a favorable order through a court.  Right now you could call the local social/children's agency or police to ask for a safety check on your daughter and get a report.  That's of limited benefit with police, it could be as brief as "She's okay."  Social services may take a closer look at your daughter as well as her environment.  Understand though that a lot of little incidents or issues may be considered separately and not combined to rise to the level of triggering an 'actionable' event such as shifting her to your care.

If you can't work out a deal or settlement with your ex, then your alternative to parent would be through court action.  Sorry, it can take a long time but at least court is generally "less unfair" than a stubborn obstructive parent.  Unless the court's evaluators see you as a substantive risk to the child (abuse, neglect or endangerment) then you're virtually assured of alternate weekends (1.5 to 3 days) and an evening or overnight in between.  Be aware that some schedule outcomes for children under 3 years of age use a schedule of shorter but more frequent visits.  If you're not a substantial distance apart then a 'standard' schedule may be impractical.

The benefit of court is that you get some 'teeth' into your parental rights.  Without an order the police may acknowledge you each have equal but undefined parental rights, tell you to get an order from the court and default to mother in charge.  My story... .I faced that issue back in 2006.  We had temp orders but they were all dismissed.  She refused me any access to our preschooler, not even phone calls.  I asked the police to go along to her residence to ensure monitoring of the visit.  The response was No.  But when I asked what would happen if I went and she called them?  The answer was a definite, "We would rush to her aid!"  I decided I didn't want to risk an arrest and so waited on court, turned out to be 3 months of no contact with my son.

Yes I am on the birth certificate as the father the child has my last name and all, we do NOT have a copy(besides mother’s copy-she’s got it but idk if she knows where it’s at)

I do not have her diagnosis papers on hand. She was locked up for crimes really young but they ended up sending her to a group home in which she lived in no outside contact from 13yrs old till she was 16 (after 16 good ones could get jobs straight to work straight back also could get home passes she called them)  she got out but was placed right back until she aged out of states custody. And keep in mind she has ODd twice, once actually trying to kill herself(she’s clean now-idk about the 3 weeks she hasn’t been with me) I seen the discharge papers from the group home in which it had all her disorders/illnesses but no I don’t have the paper. She is however just in the 1yr and so many months we were together, that time frame if it was told to a psychologist she would be textbook BPD.

We found out she was pregnant in November 2017 that December she decided to leave and stay with her mom but she came back and we ended up moving to TN we stayed there from end of December or January 1st exactly all the way up until 1 month after our child was born in July.
So she decided TN wasn’t what she wanted cause she had no family there and crap and I understood that so we went back to KY stayed with her dad till our child turned 3mo that’s when I figured out that there’s a possibility she isn’t mine (the mother had been casually having sex with a guy throughout the week leading up to us meeting) so I find that out but she assures me that she’s mine and I tell her that she’s mine anyway because I was there the whole 9mo plus the 3mo that the baby had been alive. So fast forward, we move out of her dads and we have our own apartment doing okay for ourselves. We ended up letting (mothers) dad and stepmom keep the baby for 3 days and he was supposed to bring her back to the apartment because she had her shots appointment coming up. (Mother) calls her dad and he’s screaming and calling her a F*cking liar and a dumba** and all kinds of just random things so she starts crying and he tells us that if we try to come and get the baby back that he would have to “force” us off of his hill.
More things that I don’t feel like typing happen but the baby is 5mo at this time and it’s beginning of december of 2018 and she looks at me and says “you were right we should have stayed in TN i have nothing and nobody here” “can you please try to get us a way to TN I don’t feel safe in the same county as him(her dad) anymore”  so she tells me to get us a way to TN (of course I do)
Our ride showed up at like 9pm or so and we head to TN
 fast forward like 2 weeks I believe.
We have a big arguement (FB relationship status changed to “complicated”) and she’s talking about leaving and stuff but right after Christmas the next day she ends up leaving and going back to KY.
Guess who’s house she went back to?
You’re right her dads.
Yes the police were notified of him trying to keep her and no they did nothing about it.
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ForeverDad
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18071


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 06:54:53 AM »

You have some choices to make, some easy and some not so easy.

First, regarding your on again off again GF... .her swinging perceptions from one end of the spectrum to another will likely continue unless she gets into meaningful therapy that she diligently applies in her life, perceptions and behaviors and sticks with it for years.  If you don't have copies or images of her past papers then she could Deny and obstruct and you'd have little to back up your statements that she has been previously diagnosed.  With today's HIPAA privacy laws it may be difficult for you to get paperwork on her medical and psychological intakes, stays and incarcerations.  Regular court records (except perhaps from when she was a minor) may be easier to locate.  Many counties now have summary court records that can be searched online.  It may not be so easy to track down every possible police department for their records, but at least try the one's you're sure about.

A side point about BPD... .it is usually not diagnosed in minors.  The reason is that some children can display BPD-like behaviors but then outgrow them.  (Yeah, teens can be like that.)  Sadly, your GF does seem to have persisting long-term BPD traits such as extreme inconsistency.  On the other hand, she fortunately hasn't permanently blacklisted you thus far.  So you need to be judicious how you set your parenting boundaries, not needlessly triggering her but still getting some level of regularly parenting.  We have lots of articles and active peer support to help you improve and fine tune your communication skills.
Link here:  bpdfamily Skills & Tools Workshops

Second, about your baby daughter... .maybe she's yours, maybe not.  You can choose whether to know, or not, that you're the DNA father.  Most likely court will default to you being the legal father since you are on the birth certificate, whether or not you and your ex can get along.  Odds are you will have a difficult 18 years until the baby is an adult - because of your ex's disordered behavior patterns.  Do you want your next two decades impacted (trying to co-parent, child support, etc) for a child that may not be yours?  We can't answer that for you.  We can help you ponder the various concerns, negatives and positives, but it's you who decides whether to go whichever path.

Third, you can easily obtain for yourself copies of her birth certificate.  Contact the health department in the county your baby was born and they should be able to direct you to the office and location to request a birth certificate.  Show your ID, give names and dates, pay a fee and you can get one or more copies that are stamped/certified by the agency.  A simple photocopy is not enough, make sure you get certified copies.

You mentioned she left right after a big holiday.  There are predictable triggers for many with BPD.  They can include holidays of course, vacations, packing for vacations, job changes, moving, preparing to move, births, weddings, funerals, the milk or peanut butter jar is empty, etc.
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 10:08:10 AM »

Most members here were unable to get a diagnosis of BPD.  The entire range of experts from court to evaluators to therapists are reluctant to state a diagnostic label.  For example, imagine the dilemma with alcoholism.  Not everyone who is an alcoholic is a bad parent.  Some are worse than others.  A parent who is a social drinker or drinks alone isn't much of a problem parent.  A parent is a problem who gets drunk and misbehaves in front of the children, abuses the children, etc. Think too of the parent who drives intoxicated with the children in the vehicle, that would get action.

The point is that there's a range of behaviors within a diagnosis that may be viewed as actionable, or not actionable.  Sure, a diagnosis helps but it's not everything you'd think it would be.  Over time many of us have discerned a pattern.  Courts focus more on the behaviors and patterns of behaviors than a diagnostic label.  They don't seem to focus on fixing the parents, they deal with them as they are.  It is wise generally to do the same, focus on the behaviors and patterns of behaviors.  And they care more about the poor behaviors' impact on the children than the adult between-spouse conflict.
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