If my Son was not living with us

[Depression = 72% of members]

Its been a few weeks now… since I lasted posted here.

My uBPDw and I have traded a few texts, and a few phone calls since.

I took a short work trip up in the NY area… my other two adult children who live locally helped me out with my S32a…

What do I want to report, say today in this thread… ?

Well, she is moving into her home she is in the process of purchasing the end of this month, she has called me numerous times to ask about things (logistics)… a fence, new flooring, painting… but she doesn't want my help, just my "opinion".

One time she called wanting to know if I still had the ordering information for a wheel kit for "her" generator… then it was about her BIL's truck breaking down, and that her Sister and this same BIL were going through "something bad" right now... this is my old fishing buddy, for those that remember me talking about him (?)… then it was about a job opening at the electric coop, her (same) Sister is the VP there, a job for my D26's bf perhaps… this is the Sister who helped her move out, the same Sister whom she threw coffee into her face at her Brothers wake .. same Sister whom she made cry on the walking trail a while back, last summer… today, she let it slip that her Sister tried to talk her out of moving out… that she should just "talk to Red"… and to "lighten up with his Son a little"… hmmm ; (

What do all these "communiques" mean?

So, me thinking the par was for "course"… I called her this morning to inquire about some adjustments she had made with my S32a's primary care doctor .. before we separated… as he needs a special Olympics Doctor's checkout.

TBH, I just wanted to hear her voice… she even sent me a happy birthday text, and even… a birthday card, and she signed it "Love "Q"...

So the call went alright at first, then I ask her, "how are you doing"… which quickly escalated into "projection", and "its all your fault dysregulations"… I plugged in "SLED"… and applied some SET, but to no avail… she sunk further… and was really giving me the "what-for"… I just listened to her…

It's the same drum beat… my Son.

I actually asked her this morning, I said, "I want you to tell me something "Q"… if my Son was not living with us… me, do you think we would get along any better?"… and to my absolute shock… she responded, "yes Red, things would be very different between us"… this saddens me very much ; (

I cannot even process this right now…

Please tell me honestly, all ya'll who have been following this story of mine… could there ever be a way, that we could live together again, you see, she still has it in her mind, that SHE should be allowed by me, to train, to guide, and to be allowed to punish my Son, when he doesn't meet her requirements… she said this morning, that "I" (Red5) that created this whole conflagration, that it was me, over a long period of time, the way I interact with my S32a, that culminated in what happed in his bathroom, the morning of November the 16th… that she was wholly justified in "defending herself"… she used the term this morning, "punched his lights out".

My heart is actually breaking right now…

I attempted a bit of role reversal, as in, now I was step dad, and it was her own Son who was developmentally delayed, mildly retarded, and autistic… same scenario, and I struck him three times… well, she said, "I'd have stood by your side, and supported you"… "BUT, I would have taught my Son discipline (bathroom time) to begin with"… "that's how I was raised, and that how I raised my two children"… "I don't know a lot about autism, as you do Red5, but I know WHAT works"… "I know how to discipline a child, even an autistic thirty two year old"…

Thoughts (help) ?

Red5

[Red5]

Its been a few weeks now… since I lasted posted here.

My uBPDw and I have traded a few texts, and a few phone calls since.

I took a short work trip up in the NY area… my other two adult children who live locally helped me out with my S32a…

What do I want to report, say today in this thread… ?

Well, she is moving into her home she is in the process of purchasing the end of this month, she has called me numerous times to ask about things (logistics)… a fence, new flooring, painting… but she doesn't want my help, just my "opinion".

One time she called wanting to know if I still had the ordering information for a wheel kit for "her" generator… then it was about her BIL's truck breaking down, and that her Sister and this same BIL were going through "something bad" right now... this is my old fishing buddy, for those that remember me talking about him (?)… then it was about a job opening at the electric coop, her (same) Sister is the VP there, a job for my D26's bf perhaps… this is the Sister who helped her move out, the same Sister whom she threw coffee into her face at her Brothers wake .. same Sister whom she made cry on the walking trail a while back, last summer… today, she let it slip that her Sister tried to talk her out of moving out… that she should just "talk to Red"… and to "lighten up with his Son a little"… hmmm ; (

What do all these "communiques" mean?

So, me thinking the par was for "course"… I called her this morning to inquire about some adjustments she had made with my S32a's primary care doctor .. before we separated… as he needs a special Olympics Doctor's checkout.

TBH, I just wanted to hear her voice… she even sent me a happy birthday text, and even… a birthday card, and she signed it "Love "Q"...

So the call went alright at first, then I ask her, "how are you doing"… which quickly escalated into "projection", and "its all your fault dysregulations"… I plugged in "SLED"… and applied some SET, but to no avail… she sunk further… and was really giving me the "what-for"… I just listened to her…

It's the same drum beat… my Son.

I actually asked her this morning, I said, "I want you to tell me something "Q"… if my Son was not living with us… me, do you think we would get along any better?"… and to my absolute shock… she responded, "yes Red, things would be very different between us"… this saddens me very much ; (

I cannot even process this right now…

Please tell me honestly, all ya'll who have been following this story of mine… could there ever be a way, that we could live together again, you see, she still has it in her mind, that SHE should be allowed by me, to train, to guide, and to be allowed to punish my Son, when he doesn't meet her requirements… she said this morning, that "I" (Red5) that created this whole conflagration, that it was me, over a long period of time, the way I interact with my S32a, that culminated in what happed in his bathroom, the morning of November the 16th… that she was wholly justified in "defending herself"… she used the term this morning, "punched his lights out".

My heart is actually breaking right now…

I attempted a bit of role reversal, as in, now I was step dad, and it was her own Son who was developmentally delayed, mildly retarded, and autistic… same scenario, and I struck him three times… well, she said, "I'd have stood by your side, and supported you"… "BUT, I would have taught my Son discipline (bathroom time) to begin with"… "that's how I was raised, and that how I raised my two children"… "I don't know a lot about autism, as you do Red5, but I know WHAT works"… "I know how to discipline a child, even an autistic thirty two year old"…

Thoughts (help) ?

Red5

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[Ozzie101]

I'm sorry, Red5, that must be so painful to hear.  I know you've said you really want to repair the relationship.

You're asking for honesty. Based on what she's saying, in my opinion, it's a good thing you're not all living in the same house. Given what happened last year, it would be dangerous for your son's physical and emotional well-being. She's not anywhere near ready to hear or accept that she might be wrong. (Of course, there's the possibility that she knows full-well that what she did was wrong, but her guilt and shame and self-preservation are leading her to deflect and defend. That's not necessarily any better, though.) Could she someday change? Perhaps. But if I were the parent of a special needs child, it would take a LOT of time, effort and evidence before I'd let them be around my child again.

 

[Skip]

"BUT, I would have taught my Son discipline (bathroom time) to begin with" … "that's how I was raised, and that how I raised my two children" … "I don't know a lot about autism, as you do Red5, but I know WHAT works" … "I know how to discipline a child, even an autistic thirty two year old" …

She is not rejecting the boy, she is rejecting the role you have relegated her to in the house.

To play devils advocate, let do the role reversal.

Let's say you are living in a house with her 32 son and he has some social issues and you have no say managing his presence in the house...

Would you feel trapped?

Here is an unrelated story. There is a grandson who is 5 and a bit of a terror. He is always hitting and hurting  people or breaking things. The biggest problem, however, is the parents as they forbid anyone from dealing with the boy. If he sneaks up and hits you on the head with a broom stick, or throws a toy truck in your face, they don't want you to react. They want you to sit quietly while they want tell him to "make good choices" and then tell him to apologize - which he does half-hearted. 15 minutes later he is pushing over a child in a high chair, or throwing a glass. It's an endless cycle.

People are staying away or making short visits. But not because they don't like this adorable little boy -  not because the parents are bad - but the situation is unpleasant. People can only take so much. That is mostly the parents making.

Many think the parents aren't handing it well. The parents are resistant to advice. So people stay away.

Read it (your ex) for what it is. It's an unpleasant situation at times and she has no say, no standing, no control.

I'm not defending her or attacking you (or your son)... I'm trying to balance the discussion between you and your wife. I'm saying that don't forget that a special needs child is very challenging in the home - and that its more challenging if you have little or no say in things. More so if you have terminal cancer.

Curious... what happened in that bathroom that day. What is her side of the story?

Also, can you describe the altercation (words and actions on both sides)? How intense was this?

[I Am Redeemed]

Red,
I agree with Ozzie, andt I am sorry because I know you are hoping that y'all might be able to reconcile. But it appears that she is focusing on your son as the issue instead of her behavior.

I think it would be the same volatile dynamic if she came back right now. It's clear that nothing on her end has changed. Tools are great for your communication, but they won't keep her from acting out towards your son.

I also don't think it would be any different if your son wasn't living with you. Singling him out as the cause for
the problems in your relationship sounds like blame shifting to me.

Redeemed

[Red5]

She is not rejecting the boy, she is rejecting the role you have relegated her to in the house.

To play devils advocate, let do the role reversal.

Let's say you are living in a house with her 32 son and he has some social issues and you have no say managing his presence in the house...

Would you feel trapped?

I'm not defending her or attacking you (or your son)... I'm trying to balance the discussion between you and your wife. I'm saying that don't forget that a special needs child is very challenging in the home - and that its more challenging if you have little or no say in things. More so if you have terminal cancer.

Hey Skip, yes… pretty much the ^above^ is what she said to me today, as well over the months, and as well years since I've come here, pre-registration (late 2016).

I have to also share, her exact words today to me, "you are too protective of your Son, and you don't want to hear anyone else's recommendations about his daily routine, care, or discipline"… so there you have it,

I actually saw her up town the other week, by accident, we crossed paths at the entrance of the local "Pet Smart"… Skip, she doesn't look good… she has lost so much weight… she told me she weighs about 125-130 now…

Yes, she must have felt trapped… in a way, no control, only allowed to interact until I felt she may have gone too far… but who am I to say what is "too far" to her… we are married, we should be a "team"… stand together, so forth and so on, all our children are "our children" now together, albeit all the others are from age 26-33… I do not think that "hitting" is acceptable however, what good is that… it only exacerbates the problems… it is in fact domestic abuse in my understanding (book)… its so perplexing.

Curious... what happened in that bathroom that day. What is her side of the story?

Also, can you describe the altercation (words and actions on both sides)? How intense was this?

November the 16th… about 07:30 AM, he is getting ready for his day program, her fourteen year old puppy had just passed away less than twenty-four hours earlier, so she was extremely distraught… I had taken the day off to be with her… I got up early, to get the boy up, and ready… I'm in the kitchen making coffee, he's in his bathroom, timer set to twenty minutes… I see her leave our bedroom, and go to the bathroom… "I let her be involved"… but I know how she gets when he doesn't move fast enough for her… we have been using a timer for months now, to help him understand when his time in the bathroom is up, as he has zero understanding of time on a clock…

I use two of them, one in his bathroom, one just outside… I hear her bang on the door… then I hear her say, "times up, you've been in there long enough, get off the toilet, and get washed up, brush your teeth"… timer has still not gone off yet, but I don't say anything because "I don't want to set her off so early in the morning"…

She gets the key pin from over the door, and unlocks the door, and says "get OFF that pot"… I still don't intervene… as her wish is (was)… but I don't like this, she is going to upset him, as no bell yet… she goes on… "I said your done!"… then I hear "hold out your hand"… and then a slap… and then she yells something (bad words)… I put down my dish cloth, and "in I go"…

I get to the door, his face is red, she is also in "full bloom", I say "what's going on in here"… she says, "GO AWAY I GOT THIS!"…

Son is standing there, shaking… with a toothbrush in his hand… he says… "why did you hit me"…

I say to her… "HIT?"…

She says, "he pinched my under my arm. look at this"… I grab him, pull him out of the bathroom, and shove him into is room"…

I did this to deescalate the situation, because I can tell she is about to go off…

She starts screaming at me… I tell her to "leave him alone, this has gotten out of control"… right about then the first bell goes off… ringgggg.

She picks up the timer, and throws it against the wall, it shatters… I go back out to the kitchen, I'm now furious… I try to calm down, she follows me, screaming at me… I then go out onto the back patio, I'm shaking, absolutely furious… I can feel it building inside of me… shear anger… "not again" I think to myself.

The I realize, she is still in the house, and she might go after him again…

I go back into the house, she is pouring all the fresh brewed coffee into the sink, steam rises… right about then the second timer goes off, (they are about five minutes apart)… then she takes the rice cooker, and throws it into the floor, it shatters… all the while she is screaming at me that I let him do whatever he wants to… and that I let him get away with hitting her (?)…

The cabinet door is open, as I was reaching for a coffee cup earlier, she pics up a glass, and throws it on the floor, and it also shatters…

I've now had enough, I yell "STOP THIS RIGHT NOW!"… she tries to slap me… I jerk back and avoid it...
… I put my hand on the cabinet door, and I slam it shut, the door shatters in my hands, and breaks the first row of glasses on the shelf as well… oh' no ; (

She screams "OK LETS BREAK EVERYTHING!"… I try to stop her, its starting to get physical… so I back off, as she trashes the kitchen… its not even eight in the morning yet ; (

There was more, but I don't remember it all now… I'd have to look at the old post about this…

I remember taking my phone away from her…

She went into the bedroom, and slammed the door… I retrived S32a… he is scared to death… I asked him, what happened, "Q" hit me dad"… "I pinched her dad"… "I shouldn't have pinched her dad"...

This what happened in sequence, later learned…
*She says he's been in BR too long, and unlocks, opens door.
*S32a off course is startled, and gives her the "meanie face", and shakes his fist at her".
*This makes her furious, so she makes him hold out his hand, after he pulls up his pajamas, he was on the $hitter, and she slaps his hand, and tells him to BRUSH YOUR TEETH…
*S32a then grabs her under her arm, and pinches the "fire" out of her (leaves huge bruise)… he is very fast sometimes when he is provoked.
*She then hits him closed fisted three times in his head.

NOTE: my son had cranial vault remodeling surgery when he was three, due to craniosynostosis… he should never take a hit to the head.

S32a of course, told me exactly what happened, he has no ability to lie, and you always get the "unabridged" version,

W told me the same thing… verbatim… but claims he attacked her (pinch), so this is why she punched him in his grape… the slap on the back of his hand was justified according to her… due to the "meanie face, and fist shake".

This was very intense, as I've written… uncontrolled anger outburst… inability to "not overreact"… both of us…

Skip, tell me what you think about this… I don't think its ever alright to hit a person, or a special needs person, who cant "process"…

Did I mishandle, I sure did ; (

This is where the "either me and him, or else you have to go, we cant live together like this anymore"  ; (

So she moved out…

This exact same scenario has played out countless times since I've registered here, back in January of 2017… its always about my boy… every single time…

Once, I said to her, look, he is 32 now, not 20, not 15, not 8, he is a grown man, with a six year old's brain function, this is tearing us apart… lets get with a good therapist, who can deal with adult autism .. we need to learn coping, tools, and ways to deal with him,

She responded, "no, I don't need a shrink to tell me how to discipline your son, I'll divorce you first"… that was about two years ago?

So yes Skip, I did let her handle him form the onset of the marriage, but over time; she would get out of control sometimes, and you know what, so have I over the years a few times with him… he's kicked me, hit me… he will break things when he is angry… its all about the autistics environment, remember, that many special needs cannot process like we can…

Just like living with a pw/BPD, you must be ever mindful of their moods, and tension levels… certain forms of special needs are the exact same thing… we are talking about a "boy" that weighs 204, and is as strong as a horse… he can do some damage… just like me, if I were a mind to…

...what do I do, just let her do what she wants with him .. let her tear up the house when she gets mad… I've gotten extremely angry and destroyed things too… so I'm no saint here… however, I see that it was wrong, and I'm trying to be "mindful", and exercise proper cognitive thinking… "dialectic" solutions to moods, feelings, slights… to not act out in anger uncontrollably.

I'm easy provoked… but I've learned over time to "control" my anger… and that is ongoing… not always a good performance though… I do get "caught short" sometimes… "that's it!"… "your @ss is mine now"… not ever the right thing to do…

I've been living with both autism & BPD full time for eight years now… a wife, suspected BPD (undx), and a 200+ pound special needs man boy…

Talk about eggshells here…
 

Ozz & redemmed;

Tools are great for your communication, but they won't keep her from acting out towards your son.

^This may be the case^… I want to just friggen cry…

What a $hit situation… damn it…

"Would you feel trapped"

… yes Skip, I would,

Red5

[Skip]

It's a complicated ball of twine, Red.

The day was complicated. She is dying, she had an emotional disorder,  and her dogs dies - think about what that means. Your son is following his routine, but she cracks it so he gets physical with her. You jump in and a drama triangle forms and no one knows how to resolve - typically the rescuer is in the best position to do that. To her, a 200 pound man physically hurt her (a real hurt as you say - not a hand slap) and you sided with him. You still do. You threw her out. That really amped things up.

The day was the culmination of months of things, Red. Don't boil this down to one act on one day. You have been emotionally unavailable and you relationship with you son trumps your relationship with her (they should be equal, right).

I'm not blaming you... I'm just pointing out how complicated this is. Everyone involved can pick their point of view and ignore the others.

You could like at this as everyone did the best they could do that day. You could also say that the months leading up to this day laid the foundation for failure, not success. You can see this now, right (I know you can?   ).

And of course, you should not have ejected her from the home...
And of course, she should not broken a cabinet of glasses...
And of course, she should not have sent dishes flying...
And of course, she should not have punched his head...
And of course, he should not grabbed her near her breasts and bruised her...
And of course, she should have waited 5 minutes for his clock to run out...

Would anything change if you two get back together? Could the housing environment be such that you all are not living on top of one another... Will you three be able to blend the family?  Will...

I imagine, the best near term situation is going to be the two of you living apart and trying to put together a non-cohabiting marriage relationship.

Would that be OK with you? Could you start the blending process from there?

[Red5]

It's a complicated ball of twine, Red.

Understatement of the day Skip!

The day was complicated. She is dying, she had an emotional disorder,  and her dogs dies -

Think about what that means.

She was completely dysregulated… and I should have been much more aware of this fact, I should have anticipated this, I should have expected this to happen (probability), but I failed here… I rewind the tape in my head continuously.

Your son is following his routine, you jump in and a drama triangle forms and no one knows how to resolve (out of control)… to her, a 200 pound man physically hurt her (a real hurt as you say - not a hand slap) and you sided with him. You still do. You threw her out. That really amped things up.

Yes… "amperage is the measure of shock intensity"… I should not have let my anger (over amperage) get the better of me… and yes, I still do side with my Son… in the way of, he's got no one else in this world, his own mother abandoned him thirteen years ago, please don't take this the wrong way… but tell me Skip, I want to know, how would you have handled this, honest question, considering the history as I've laid it out… what could I (you) have done different, Skip you are an expert in these waters, what, or how… could things have been different.

The day was the culmination of months of things, Red. Don't boil this down to one act on one day. You have been emotionally unavailable and you relationship with your son trumps your relationship with her (they should be equal, right).

Yes, correct; they should be equal, the exact words of our Pastor.

I'm not blaming you... I'm just pointing out how complicated this is.

I'm a grown Man, and I will accept my part in this, as her Husband, and his Father.

You could like at this as everyone did the best they could do that day. You could also say that the months leading up to this day laid the foundation for failure, not success. You can see this now, right (I know you can?   ).

Clearly… and as well sadly.

Would anything change if you two get back together? Could the housing environment be such that you all are not living on top of one another... Will you three be able to blend the family?  Will...

I do hope so, one day Skip… lessons learned, rubicon's crossed… new cognitive, dialectic tools… I believe in miracles, and as well the power of prayer… major changes will need to be made… overhaul of the status quo, her role as my wife, and his step mother would have to be completely revaluated, and understood by me, as I've not performed my duties as the husband properly, thus the situation that built up over the last five or so years.

I imagine, the best near term situation is going to be the two of you living apart and trying to put together a non-cohabiting marriage relationship.

This appears to be the plan… she sent me this text this afternoon:

Red5, I love you too, but for whatever reason we can’t seem to live together. I don’t have all the answers, but I do know it can’t be fixed by jumping back into the “frying pan.” I am sorry. I know it is not the answer you wanted to hear. I am not trying to hurt anyone, but I am also not going to ignore the problems. Let me get settled again and maybe we can have some lunch or something and go from there.

Would that be OK with you? Could you start the blending process from there?

I'll take what I can get at this point Skip… I do not feel that she has a lot of time left… I'm scared.

Thanks for listening, Red5

[Skip]

what could I (you) have done different, Skip you are an expert in these waters, what, or how … could things have been different.

I don't have better insight than you, Red. I'm just reflecting back what you have been saying so that you can hear it yourself.

You all did the best you could and it didn't work. It sounds like she is will to try again, but differently.

How can this work best with two homes? Can you make that "great"?

Is there a single home that would work? What would it look like?

How can the three of you blend better this time? How can the pairs blend better?

[Red5]

I don't have better insight than you, Red. I'm just reflecting back what you have been saying so that you can hear it yourself.

Keep on "reflecting" Skip… yes, please do !

You all did the best you could and it didn't work. It sounds like she is will to try again, but differently.

Yes, I made the comment, as she was letting me have the what for this morning, somewhat to the words of, .. "I think, "Q", that this type of interaction between us would be better suited to a therapy environment, as in we need to go and seek marital, relationship therapy at some point, we are surely not going to get anywhere like this, there is to much emotion between us, I think that this would be the best way forward… would you consider doing this with me at some point"… she replied, "perhaps"...

How can this work best with two homes? Can you make that "great"?

Better than the alternative at the moment, we cant just "get back together" right now… that's the cold hard truth.

Is there a single home that would work? What would it look like?

Same as post above, there will have to be major changes, and I will have to be the one that leads, she will have to feel extremely validated, supported, and maybe for lack of a better word, "justified"… we are still dealing with borderline here… that has to be remembered, among all the other issues here.

How can the three of you blend better this time? How can the pairs blend better?

That's what I'm going to lean heavily on you guys about, and as well Major Tom, my "T"… NOT something I should try to undertake on my own… again, I'm going to have to take the lead on this… I'm going to have to let her "be her"… and to fill her roll as my Sons step mother, and as well my wife… and that as you say, is a "ball of twine"

This is as you described, a marathon, not a sprint here… thinking long term, for what time we have left Skip…

Red5

[Skip]

Major Tom?  Are you telling him that we are "ground control".  

Red5, I love you too, but for whatever reason we can’t seem to live together. I don’t have all the answers, but I do know it can’t be fixed by jumping back into the “frying pan.” I am sorry. I know it is not the answer you wanted to hear. I am not trying to hurt anyone, but I am also not going to ignore the problems. Let me get settled again and maybe we can have some lunch or something and go from there ~ Mrs Red

Red, she is reaching toward you slowly.

There is a clue here. Completely let go of "living together" in your communication with her... that is overstepping. Shift to a supporting a two household relationship for now.  Start looking for midway meetup points where you can have dinner. Let go of the old model for now.

She will need help as the cancer progresses... is she close to you? close to family?

[Red5]

Major Tom?  Are you telling him that we are "ground control".  

No, but I might, “ground controller”... ie’ “spook”... he has a brother that used to ride around in the back of a Lockheed EC-121 Warning Star... its a small town, turns out Major Tom is married to my neighbors wife’s sister in law, and we all attend the same Church, Major Tom has known our Pastor for decades... fwiw... “small town”, we talked about this, as in we have to ensure we “deconflict” in such a tight social structure...

Red, she is reaching toward you slowly. There is a clue here. Completely let go of "living together" in your communication with her... that is overstepping. Shift to a supporting a two household relationship for now. Let go of the old model for now.

Yes, she told me that she needs to feel secure, and that she wishes that she hadn’t sold her old place now... this is a very delicate thing between us right now, this is why I need ya’ll, so I don’t “engulf” her... at this point, I need to let her set the pace of things.

She will need help as the cancer progresses... is she close to you? close to family?

Yes she is, all within fifteen minutes, twenty miles give or take as the crow flies... from everyone, “Foo” sisters and her mum... and me, her two adult children have continued their relationship with me, although now clandestinely... but they both live extreme south, and north from here, Alabama and North Dakota... this house she is purchasing... is in the next town up the road, Havelock; Cherry Point where I work everyday.

The next thing she wanted me to do, was to help her secure movers, as she doesn’t want “Foo” to be involved this time, and she wants me to ensure that her tricare and ID, are renewed well before due... both items are pretty easy to take care of.

The cancer treatments and the billing process through insurance are always “difficult”... no worries,

Thank You Skip,

Red5

[empath]

Red5, I know you are scared about her health. I've walked through the stage 4 cancer with my sil and brother and their family. It's such a hard journey. I stayed with sil over the last week of her life and saw her decline and my bro and his kids trying to deal with it the best that they could.

I'm also in a 2 household situation, and I have a few friends who have similar situations - mainly due to mental health issues making it difficult to live in the same household. In your case, you have an even more complicated situation with a couple of people who have significant mental health issues and a serious physical illness.

Honestly, I think it is good that she seems to recognize that she can't go back to the same situation and knows that there are problems. You might have different ideas of what those problems are, but she does seem to still love you. She's willing to maybe have lunch.

What has worked for me and h is to meet at public places, restaurants, coffee houses, etc. where we talk. It's uncharted territory that you've entered here. It doesn't look like what "normal" would be, but it's not normal. Listen to her, let her come to you. She doesn't want to hurt anyone...  I would imagine she might be scared about a lot of things, as you are. It's hard to manage those fears even in the best of circumstances; when there are more complex issues, it's nearly impossible. (my bro's fam went off the rails for a bit, into scary territory, because it was complex - kids had attachment issues)

[Red5]

I'm also in a 2 household situation, and I have a few friends who have similar situations - mainly due to mental health issues making it difficult to live in the same household. In your case, you have an even more complicated situation with a couple of people who have significant mental health issues and a serious physical illness.

Honestly, I think it is good that she seems to recognize that she can't go back to the same situation and knows that there are problems. You might have different ideas of what those problems are, but she does seem to still love you. She's willing to maybe have lunch.

What has worked for me and h is to meet at public places, restaurants, coffee houses, etc. where we talk.

Thank you for stopping by empath, I did think about you and your story today,

Looks like this is where myself and “Q” are going, as you have described.

Which right now, I will take whatever is offered.

I have often wondered just how aware she is, of her emotional and mental state sans the cance dx, which by itself is completely engulfing to her, and me.

Yes, “lunch”... I’d take that with her : )

She is so complicated an individual... it’s been a long journey with her... I so so want her to be alright, and I’m so torn up inside about what happened...

And I did remove myslef from the marriage about the beginning of 2017, so beaten, and whipped I was... no excuses though, I should have tried harder.

Seems many of us get to that point, that we just kind of give up, and become apathetic about our loved ones, it’s so sad, as a relationship marriage is suppose to be so much more, or at least that was our expectations in the beginning... seems especially more so for us who this is our second attempt at marriage.

Thanks for you post empath, and thanks for listening,

Red5

[I Am Redeemed]

Red,

It's probably a good thing that you guys have some space right now, as painful as it is. It's giving you time to really learn the tools here, for one thing, and to have opportunities to practice them without the ongoing stress and pressure of constant volatility in your home.

Have you spoken any more with your pastor? It's good to stay spirituality connected, even if your wife isn't ready to participate in counseling at this time.

One day at a time. Short, casual visits with your wife may help you to build back some of the bridge that started burning, in a constructive way this time.

Praying for your family,

Redeemed

[2020]

Red5, I empathise with you. I have a very similar situation myself.

My 18 year old autistic Son and my partner clash, as you probably know from my earlier writings. He has gone to stay with his mother for five days but returns in the next few hours. My partner and I had a really nice time the past few days but last night she changed. She was ignoring me in the afternoon. Didn't wan't a coffee. Didn't care about whether we watched a movie. Told me to enjoy chatting to my friends on my computer. I asked her if my Son returning was upsetting her. She said she hoped my Son's bus crashes and he dies.

I have been trying to broker deals with her on our future this week and figure out how we can make something work. One option was my partner and I move somewhere close by and my two sons live here. Today she woke up at 6am and has now disappeared. She told me she wants nothing to do with me and that I am a manipulating freak passive/aggressive and a  .

Somewhere in the outburst before she vanished, she said she was looking for somewhere else to live. I imagine we are now entering the annual 'moving on' episode where she shifts all her belongings to a rental property and within two months needs me to move her things out in the middle of the night. I don't think it matters a whole lot where they move to. The problem follows them. My partner has now come suddenly off her medication and cannot see the benefit it has had. Eveyone on her mental health team in her eyes are useless. She would prefer to read books on mythology than address her problems, get therapy and undertake a DBT programme.

I don't know what the answer is, for you and I. I read your posts here and feel strength from them. You seem pretty solid in the way you cope. Personally I am thinking if my partner does move out again, it might be the best option of a bad bunch. Maybe I can establish a different relationship with her? Clearly the Autism and the BPD are like chlorine and brake fluid! Can they exist under the same roof?

EDIT: Also Red, I meant to say, the cancer issue is very difficult, for her and you. I watched my Mother slip away a few years back. You will need a lot of strength and compassion. I do not envy you I am sorry to say. Tread gently and try to make the time you spend with her as happy as you can. I wish you well.

[Red5]

Red5, I empathize with you. I have a very similar situation myself.

I remember 2020, I've been following you for a while now…

My 18 year old autistic Son and my partner clash, as you probably know from my earlier writings.

Yes, I remember, seems we are in the same "boat" here.

I have been trying to broker deals with her on our future this week and figure out how we can make something work. One option was my partner and I move somewhere close by and my two sons live here.

Looks like my uBPDw and I will be doing something of the same sort.

I don't know what the answer is, for you and I. I read your posts here and feel strength from them. You seem pretty solid in the way you cope.

I been through a lot of crazy $hit Man : (
… no matter what happens, I'm going to be alright, maybe sad, and heartbroken… but I'll be ok… I think, so will you and your son as well be alright 2020.

Personally I am thinking if my partner does move out again, it might be the best option of a bad bunch.

yes… but be sure to exhaust all "means" with her… my wife moved out, at my behest, and now I miss her terribly, seems I've mentally erased all the "crazy"… amazing how the mind works.

Maybe I can establish a different relationship with her?

That might work better, perhaps a conduit to a better relationship going forward?

Clearly the Autism and the BPD are like chlorine and brake fluid! Can they exist under the same roof?

This is what I've experienced… my Son is actually afraid of her, he told me she is a bully… he is (was) not able to communicate with her, or "reason" with her like a normally developed adult… it really breaks my heart now what I'd allowed to happen, and to "appease her"… ugh ; (
This is really mind bending crazy stuff here, she weighs about 130 now, and he is about 204… but he is scared of her… and he keeps telling me, "dad, "Q" isn't coming back Dad, no she's not coming back dad"… (autistic reasoning)… I really feel like $hit man… still wanting to "save" everybody...

EDIT: Also Red, I meant to say, the cancer issue is very difficult, for her and you. I watched my Mother slip away a few years back. You will need a lot of strength and compassion. I do not envy you I am sorry to say. Tread gently and try to make the time you spend with her as happy as you can. I wish you well.

2020, I feel… that I know how this is all going to wind up, the statistics are quite clear concerning her diagnoses… finality… and it is going to completely break me my friend, when this is all over, I'm going to collapse into a heap… and I'm going to cry uncontrollably… I feel right now, that I'm destined to lose her again, perhaps two times again before all is said and done.

This consumes my thoughts, and we've still a long journey ahead ; (

Thanks for listening, Red5

[empath]

And I did remove myslef from the marriage about the beginning of 2017, so beaten, and whipped I was... no excuses though, I should have tried harder.

Red, it is normal (and probably healthy) to withdraw from relationships that are abusive. So much so that one of the signs of these kinds of difficulties is that individuals are withdrawn; it's a protective function.

We like to think that we could have tried harder, but the reality is that we need better tools to use. If we keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting things to get better just because we did more of the same - that's another kind of insanity. I'm not sure that even with the best tools we can prevent these kinds of things from happening. There are just too many other sources of emotional stress in everyone's lives.


I'm glad that you stood up for J.

One of the things that helped keep me thinking straight was listening to d14 and what her heart was saying.

[Red5]

Red, it is normal (and probably healthy) to withdraw from relationships that are abusive.

We like to think that we could have tried harder, but the reality is that we need better tools to use.

I'm not sure that even with the best tools we can prevent these kinds of things from happening.

There are just too many other sources of emotional stress in everyone's lives.

I'm glad that you stood up for J.

One of the things that helped keep me thinking straight was listening to d14 and what her heart was saying.

My middle Son (S29) works part time at one of the local bar and grills… he's their "go to guy", and picks up a lot of extra shifts, and when he delivers, he makes $ hand over fist!… anyways, I didn't feel like cooking last night, so I ordered takeout, and when the girls took our order, and asked for the address, she said "oh, your "L's" dad"… I said yes, is he working tonight, she said yes, I'll be sure to give him this order : )

So S29 comes round a little later, and brings S32a, and I our chow… its always good to see him, he hung around for a little while, and he told me that, the other day, uBPDw and mum (MIL) came into the establishment to have lunch… this were his words, "dad, "Q" looks pretty skinny now, her face looks like she is losing structure, she looks weak, she has lost a lot of weight since last I saw her (November)… she only touched her food, she doesn't look good dad"...

This is tough : (

I too crossed paths with her up town the second week of March, I hadn't layed eyes upon her since she moved out (1 Dec)… I was shocked at the way she looked, I did not take my sunglasses off, so she did not see any reaction, she looks so small now, she has lost so much weight, this is due to the medications, as she cannot eat because the medication makes her so ill… she told me all this, and said to me that her oncologist lowered her dosages, to try to control the reactions… which she said does not benefit her, because she is not responding to them, she said she is 'sustained', there is no sign of it reducing, so she is worried that if they keep lowering, that it wont be as effective (sustained)…  

… and she has to eat, thus her appearance.

My mind criss crosses, and goes back and forth, as in "why cant we just lay all this aside, and get back together"… as I don't feel that we have a lot of time left.

But she is still as she was emotionally, and mentally, as in her BPD(npd?) behaviors are all still there, as evidence from our last phone conversation… she was actually bringing up things from before we were even married (eight years)… like how I was taking care of my kids, when we were dating… going back that far… basically bashing me in the head continuously… and again, I just absorbed it all : (

She is so angry, at me, at everything, at everyone… I made the comment to her, "Q", that was a long time ago, can we talk about something good that has happened today?"… "all of our children are doing great, in their lives, in there relationships"… "Q" that's in large part because of you"… then she let me have it some more… as in, "if it weren't for me (her), then "my" kids would have never left home"… "I should have waited to marry you until they were out of the house"… she meant my younger two, D26, S29 now.

Then she went into, "what of something happens to you, then who is going to take care of S32a, your S29, your D26?"… "they should not have to correct your missparenting of S32a"…

That shut me down, no more validation, just listening…

Right after the split, it was D26's birthday, so I took her out to lunch, as she works as a paralegal at a law office down in Beaufort… so we were in the establishment, and she asked me "dad, can you tell me what happed"… so I related the story to her… and we talked about how things were back in 2011 after "Q" and I married, D26, and S29 were still at home, so they were "D18", and S20" at that time… D26 asked me, do you remember the time she came after me about ____, I said yes, and I'm sorry about that… I remember the way she was speaking to you (yelling)… she called you a 'pos', I'm sorry about that, then D26 says, "yeah, I remember, but "exactly which time are you talking about that she called me a 'pos'"…

So see… even back as newly weds, uBPDw was in her "modus operandi"… long before I had a clue about anything psychological with her… basically, we got married, after dating for almost four years, and as soon as we were back from the "honeymoon", she went right "after" my two youngest children (teenagers+)…

I remember the arguments… she wouldn't stop, she came after me, them continuously... I would say things like, "you have no idea what they went through, their mother abandoned them, its a small miracle that they are not all "F'ed" up in the head after what happened, after what they saw, I think I've done a pretty good damn job of raising them the last few years, so why are you so critical of them, they are good kids, no drugs, no drinking, both of them managed to graduate high school after having been moved in the middle of a school year, they both work now too… they went through hell "Q", I'd appreciate it if you'd lighten the /F/ up on them, they will find their way out of the house in good time, its best NOT to push them out"…

That was in 2011…

Why do I even talk about this now…

Not sure, does it even matter, no it doesn't.

Thanks for listening.

Red5

 

[2020]

Hello Red5

I have been trying to reply to you but no sooner do I begin typing, another major drama rears its head. I have major going on right now .I will start another topic as I can see this being quite involved and potentially very ugly.

What I wanted to relay to you here relates to your situation with your wife. I am not sure what I can offer but my mother died in 2014 from cancer. I am sure you are aware, you have sad times ahead. With my mother, it was a process of dying over three years. It wasn't like the light switch was suddenly flicked and it all went dark. It was a slow gradual fade of the light. You will feel empty, that's for sure, but I found it to be a gentle process, the letting go. My Mother was a very beautiful giving person, to the point of self-sacrifice. My Dad was awful to her to be honest, yet she just carried on, unwavering, being kind and compassionate to all who met her. I wonder if I have emulated her to my own detriment.

In her last days we had her at home and stayed with her as she shut down. Her breathing became shallower and softer until it faded like a song. Then my Sister and I saw her smile. We had never seen her so happy. I think you may see this too. It is sad and frightening but it will be ok, this process will unfold naturally.

It is unfortunate you have so much on your plate. BPD is complex enough to navigate, but the cancer is extra hard on everyone. My thoughts are with you. Take care.

[Skip]

My heart and prayers are there for all three of you. Life is hard. This is hard.

You have friends here.

[Red5]

I had Friday off, had plans to work around the house and the yard... iPhone ‘dinged’ as I pulled back into the driveway after dropping S32a off his day program... it was uBPDw, she told me her ID card expires in June, I said ok, I’ll call Deers/Rapids on the air station and see what we need to do... I was thinking it was like any other buisiness... just show up and your “in the system”,

She said “no Red5, if you’d just listen to me for once, you have to go and sign some form... they won’t just renew me”

Hmmm,  thought... “if you’d just listen to me for once” she said... I obsorbed it, and remembered that since I’m retired that she may be correct, as my own Id is permanent... so I told her I would take care of it today and text her when it was done.

I pondered a bit on the “if you’d just listen to me” remark, well, that’s the person I am to her, someone who doesn’t ever listen to her, someone who is stubborn, hard headed... well I guess after being in a relationship with her for eleven years, this is who I’ve become... perhaps.

So I “canx” my plans for the day, and locked the shed back up and headed to Cherry Point... I waited for about an hour, and then got her all fixed up in the Deers/Rapids system... which means that tricare and everything associated is “steady as she goes”... I texted her and “checked in”, she responded “thank you”... I texted back “have a good day and “””I love you”””,

So by now it after thirteen hundred... so I headed back to Morehead... and decided to go “junking”...

I found a beautiful stained glass window with a hummingbird inlayed... it was several “Benjamin’s”... she loves hummingbirds... we have several feeders in the backyard... so I bought it for her... her birthday is coming up in May, she will be fifty two.

When we got married... and she got her Id (dependent), she told me about when her and her first husband separated and divorced... he had been in the Army for twenty years... but he had made sure she had to surrender her dependent Id... and I remember telling her, if you two were married for the entire time... then you rated (still rate) that dependent id... my own ex still has hers... and she is able to renew it every couple of years...

My uBPDw also got half of his retirement pension when he retired... I remember talking to her about that when we got married... “why don’t you let him have that back... it’s less then six hundred bucks... and sounds like he could use it”...

She refused... that never sat “right”’with me, and I remember telling her that “I’d appreciate it if that pension money did not find its way into supporting this household”...’of course she got mad about that.

Her ex passed away in 2016 from lung cancer... and the gov kept on paying her, it was a huge debacle that took years to “untangle”... which added more “ire” to our day to day life,’this was all happening at about the same time that she resigned her own career due in part to her health and as well ongoing adverse interactions with her direct report VP.

She told me about the time that I registered here... after her ex died... there was another debacle about his personal effects, his ashes, and his son and daughters rights to the affememtioned... lots of “Foo”’drama, and of course this supplied her with ever more endless conduits to dysregulation.

She once told me, “I think God is punishing me with this cancer because I didn’t try to help out “ExH” during he last few months of his life...’he died’ in a Veterans hospital out in the San Fransisco area  ...

I told her that this was not true... I tried to support her emotionaly as best I could but she turns on me... and said I should be helping his kids get his ashes back?

And that he was a Veteran and that I should have more compassion to help her two adult children to get his personal effects back from the westcoast ?

I adsorbed it all... and added it to the “list”... as off in the distance I could hear Mr. Gottman’s horsemen approaching...

“Show some respect she said... he is a Veteran”... that pretty much pissed me off as I remember... yeah, what do I know about service and being a Veteran... for goodness sake ; (

She told me countless times that her ExH was a good husband and father, but in the end he was a liar and a cheat ?  ... I was even compared to him many times over the years... so what is true, but he was a Veteran and I should “show some respect”’... and perform x-y-z in order to convince the Veterans administration to redirect his effects from some gf he had in California to his Son and Daughter instead... “he deserves honor” she told me, “show respect”’... that was really hard to take... but I did...

I spoke to his Son, he is on active duty, Air Force... I even spoke to the VA here... but was told that since your not blood kin, and your wife is his “ex” to boot... well there you have it... his Son, said he “wasn’t sweating it, mom’s just being “”Mom””

“God is punishing me” ’she said... my wife is a puzzle within a puzzle... “Matryoshka doll“,

I’m rambling...

I found out yesterday that Major Tom plays golf with Pastor “P”... Major Tom said to me yesterday... “Red you are swimming upstream against a strong current with rocks tied to your legs”...

My mind is like an armament computer in an F-18 that keeps doing a “re-BIT”...because there is a LOADX (load fault)... in the stores management system...

Sitting here at the local eating joint after Church... service was awesome... Pastor “P” is always good, it was communion Sunday... Easter is right round the corner... time to get up offmthis bar stool and go grocery shopping... S32a is getting “antsy”... it’s somebodies birthday out in the restaurant... it’s a quarter to two, better get moving...

Thanks for listening... 2020 & Skip : )

Red5

[2020]

Hey Red5,

Just reading through your last post... It is amazing the crazy stuff which they spout. "God is punishing me"? I get, "The universe is telling me something" . That usually sets an alarm off in me. Not a major alarm, but a low "Barp... Barp..." like in a distant hold of a space ship. This is more often than not followed by a sonar noise over the top. I am amazed at the connections she makes between completely unrelated events. She would give Salvador Dali a run for his money if she painted.

That stuff you mentioned about the retirement pension. They can appear to be quite ruthless at times, yet so loving, on the increasingly rare occasion. I seem to spend at least half my energy on my pwBPD. Well, let's be honest... more like 80%+! And what for? A little morsel of affection once a month? And yes, I heard what a liar and a cheat the father of her child was too. Oh, how they were wronged... I get compared to him too!

[Red5]

I read this tonight...

Defining Cancer Cachexia.

The international consensus statement on the definition and classification of cancer cachexia, published in May 2011 in Lancet Oncology, established these criteria for diagnosing cachexia in patients with cancer:

Weight loss greater than 5 percent over the past 6 months; or
BMI less than 20 and any degree of weight loss greater than 2 percent;

Appendicular skeletal muscle index consistent with sarcopenia (another wasting syndrome) and weight loss of more than 2 percent.

The stages of cancer cachexia agreed upon by the panel are:

Precachexia: weight loss of less than 5 percent, along with other symptoms such as impaired glucose tolerance or anorexia.

Cachexia: Weight loss greater than 5 percent or other symptoms and conditions consistent with the diagnostic criteria for cachexia.

Refractory cachexia: Patients experiencing cachexia who are no longer responsive to cancer treatment, have a low performance score, and have a life expectancy of less than 3 months.

I’m very concerned tonight, this is a new development that I’m coming to grips with... she (uBPDw) seems to have really gone down hill since December... more evidenced by me not seeing her or being with her every day, and only seeing her that one time very breifly back in March...

This explans to me her appearance... and as well what my S29 described after he saw her in the restaurant about a week ago.

I went and looked at pics of her back in August... and compared in my mind to what I’m seeing now, a few weeks ago in the store... and her apearence is like day to night... markedably...

She told me, that one of her recent appointments up in Duke, her oncologist would not let her and her sister leave the hospital until she took an iv, as he was afraid she might have some kind of cardiac event, meaning heart attack on the drive back home... that was in November(?)...
 
... what am I going to do?

I’m scared to death tonight.

... Red5

[I Am Redeemed]

Red, I'm so sorry. You have a lot on your plate, for sure.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[empath]

Red5, I'm so sorry. I remember seeing my sil's decline; it's heartbreaking. My prayers are with you.

[SunandMoon]

 I'm so sorry Red. This is such a sad and difficult situation.

May I ask if there is anything stopping you from just going over to her place? Maybe with a big bunch of flowers and something you know she loves to eat? No fighting, just hold her and let her talk if she wants... ask her if this is happening to her.

[JNChell]

Red5,,   Hang in there. Love and prayers sent your way.

[once removed]

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