He wants to know everything

[Ozzie101]

Things have been going well with my uBPDh for the last couple of months and I'm so grateful to my board family for all your help.

Last night, H had a very minor "episode." I knew from my T and from people here that it was very likely he would still have slip-ups, despite all his progress. What disturbed me was this was about issues he's had before and while he's been so much better about thinking things through, it took me to a "Here we go again" place and brought up my old fears that this is going to be a monster that will rear its head one day.

H HATES being left out of the loop. Apparently, his first wife's family regularly left him out of planning discussions. This was a family of four adults, so he made five so, leaving one person out of emails and phone calls kind of sticks out. He felt like he was being deliberately left out. He might have been. I don't know since I wasn't there and I barely know those people. His first wife's response was "Why do you need to be involved? It's not a big deal." Sounds invalidating to me, even if it's true.

Anyway, my family is much larger (I'm one of five). The way it's worked with my sisters' SOs and family plans is my mom emails or texts the daughters and it's our responsibility to share info/discuss/coordinate with our husbands or boyfriends and then get back to her. Basically, we act like representatives for our branch of the tree. It always made sense to me as a way to streamline the process. As far as I know, the other guys don't have a problem with it. Well, it bothers H. I eventually talked to my mom and she agreed to include him. But she's been in this habit so long, she sometimes forgets and probably thinks like H's ex: "What's the big deal?".

So, yesterday, H's biological mom texted him that they're planning a visit to the kids (the other kids live about 3 hours away from us) on a certain weekend. H started getting worked up that there had been discussion and planning without him, lashing out how that shows they don't give a damn about him, etc. I kept calm, pointed out how we could make the trip work for us, and, when he asked questions, answered. I pointed out that we don't know how their planning camet about. They could have been talking to their daughter on the phone, it came up in conversation and they couldn't just stop that and call him. I doubted he was being intentionally left out, especially since they've been so open and supportive. Later that night he thanked me for pointing that out, that he hadn't considered that there were other explanations. He also remembered that when he was visiting them, they'd talked some about coming in May. So, he hadn't really been left out. His mom said they'd thought about Memorial Day weekend but since they knew we were gone that weekend, they specifically chose another one. So, it was all OK. But his first reaction was catastrophizing (they don't want me around, they don't care about me at all).

He went more into detail again on how he doesn't like people keeping things from him. I get that. But the thing is, you're not going to know everything. I don't expect him to tell me every little thing. I expect he'll have conversations with his family that I'm not a part of. Things will happen I don't know about. Works both ways. For him, it's a big deal. But maybe I don't want to share every detail with him. Maybe sometimes I'll just forget to mention something. I just worry this will resurface as a problem, though I've made a conscious effort to share more, even when things seem unimportant.

Does anyone else deal with this? Any advice on how to handle this part of communication in a way that's respectful and open, but not giving in to control tactics? I want to be sensitive to his needs. But I also know that I don't want to feel like I have to tell him every single little thing. That makes me stressed and paranoid and fearful. And I know my family won't live up to his standards. Nothing I or we can do about that, really. I can share information and make requests, but they're under no obligation.

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[SunandMoon]

It's difficult to know what to do in this situation, Ozzie101. It does sound like a control tactic.

Do you think it stems from his rocky relationship with your family and your sister's recent attempt to alienate him? That would make him extra sensitive and possibly he is trying to control the interactions?

[Ozzie101]

Hi SunandMoon!

He says it all goes back to his ex-wife's family and feeling like they deliberately cut him out. If I were to play amateur therapist, I would guess that it goes back long before that. He was adopted as an infant. I've never gotten a clear answer on when he found out he was adopted, but from some things he's said, it's clear that his parents (or, more specifically his father) knew way more about his birth parents than they ever told him. I think that adds to his paranoia (that's his word, by the way).

There have been mistakes all around when it comes to my family. They're pretty reserved people at first and they didn't really put forth much effort to welcome him. He's also reserved and insecure and didn't feel welcome. I didn't do much or wasn't able to do much to bridge the gap. And so, here we are.

A lot of it, I think, has to do with his insecurity -- something he acknowledges himself. His go-to response to anything is that he's being attacked or that someone doesn't like him. I try to be sensitive to that but I also can't help but think that he's often taking things way too far. For instance, his parents letting him know what their plans are rather than consulting him first and him saying "That just shows that they don't care about me at all. So I'm not going to even bother going or spending any more time with them." He came down from that pretty quickly (WAY more quickly than he used to) but given everything that's happened, it still kind of shook me.

Things like that will happen, sometimes with his family, sometimes with mine. I just fear getting back into that old pattern where every little thing turns into a huge drama that ends with him becoming verbally abusive and scary.

[SunandMoon]

Yes, that sounds really complicated, Ozzie. The poor guy.

I can understand where he's coming from but at the same time, it is paranoid and not something I would encourage.

I'm not sure I would have asked my mum to include him in the group. It sounds like you have a good 'family branch' system going and including him may backfire in the future...

I think you did a really good job of validating him and leading him to see  the situation from a different perspective. That's the best you can do really - take each incident as it comes and try to steer him towards healthier thinking. 

[Ozzie101]

Yes, that probably is best and that's really the way I've been doing it.

I think part of my mistake before was allowing myself to become part of a triangle. He wanted me to fix things with my family -- to tell them this or that, to get them to understand that they need to include him, etc. I did it before. Now, I don't see that as healthy. There are certain things, yes, I can be go-between. But I'm not going to make them do anything. And if he has a real problem or issue with something, I will facilitate a conversation, but I'm not going to step in and be the ambassador. Too much can get lost in translation and it puts me in the middle.

He got upset before that my sisters weren't showing as much interest in his son (my stepson) as I was in their kids. Well, there are differences. They barely know SS. I've been around since their kids were born. I'm not going to abandon those kids just because their moms don't choose to get involved with mine. That's punishing children (and me). I've tried to explain that to H before but I'm hopeful that if/when it comes up again, we can come to an understanding. I will share news about SS. I will tell them about his baseball games, etc. If they choose to come, great. If they don't, that's their choice. But I'm not going to skip out on my nephew's graduation because his mother didn't come to one of SS's ballgames.

[SunandMoon]

I think part of my mistake before was allowing myself to become part of a triangle. He wanted me to fix things with my family -- to tell them this or that, to get them to understand that they need to include him, etc. I did it before

This is a pattern with pwBPD and they will always play the victim. So they will put themselves in situations where you will have to be the rescuer (and sometimes the persecutor). It's not healthy and it keeps them in the victim mindset, not realising that they create those triangles themselves.

I worry that being in the loop with your family will eventually lead to something being taken the wrong way and setting him off, repeating the pattern again.

I'm guessing this need for recognition and control stems from feeling not liked by your family.

I know you feel guilty that you confided in them about the abuse you were experiencing but you shouldn't. You're very close to your family and it's healthy that you reached out to them for support.

To not do so - to cover up for him and pretend everything is fine - is the hallmark of codependency. It allows the behaviour to continue.

PwBPD are still people and we all need to accept that there are consequences for the things we do. Covering up avoids the consequences... and takes away the opportunity to grow as a responsible person.

Your family love you, are concerned for you and wary of him. And rightly so.

They need to know that you are safe and that he has changed to really accept him, and that takes time.

I don't know how you approach this, Ozzie, but if you can steer him towards accepting that it's a process and needs time, it will help. PwBPD want instant solutions, especially for things that make them uncomfortable. The discomfort is a consequence of his actions and so he needs to work through it, not try to avoid or place the blame somewhere else.

You know he's a good person so reinforce that to him and encourage him to understand that your family will eventually see that too, based on his behaviour over time.

I think you have handled everything really well so far... and you can see the positive results! Stay centred and model healthy behaviour and I think you will see that he follows.

SaM x

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, SunandMoon!

When he's in a more reasonable frame of mind (most of the time these days), he does see that it's something that will take time. And I definitely understand where he's coming from on wanting to know things and be in the loop because, honestly, I think so much of it stems from his being adopted and never really connecting with his adoptive parents.

I agree on the "in the loop" thing. That's been my fear for a while because I know it's happened many times before -- him taking something the wrong way. I think that's why I've stayed sort of keyed-up about family stuff. I just feel like there's a monster lurking out there and it will rear up again sometime all due to family. But, again, in his more reasonable moments, he's perfectly accepting and understanding. It's when he's upset or stressed that it comes back up.

I'll keep it up with the validation, staying loving and encouraging, strengthening our relationship so he feels secure. That will help a lot because at the heart of most of this is his insecurity. I just can't let him create those triangles again or put me in that kind of position.

[babyoctopus]

I feel for you, so sorry you are struggling through this, its hard. Very hard. 

It's so exhausting,  trying to stay one step ahead, and to create a world in which the BPDh doesn't get offended, or hurt, or mad. But then it is us, the non-BPD partner, who becomes the controller, don't we? I lived like this for 23 years. And when they do lose it, we always blame ourselves.

The thing is, of course he's  never going to know "everything"'... You are being put in an impossible no-win situation, and he likely knows that.  Stay strong- and stay calm- when he inevitably discovers something you did or didn't tell him.  Do you think it makes sense for you to ask your family to change the way they've done things for years because of his past insecurities?

It sounds like you are working on securing strong boundaries, which is very good, because this type of relationship can be  a really tough haul. The good news is it seems he is owning his part sometimes, but it also sounds like he's using guilt/obligation by using his ex's family as an excuse to control you. My advice is: validate his feelings, but don't let it cause a wedge between you and the people you love. You are going to need them.

I wish you the best!

[Ozzie101]

Thanks babyoctopus!

It certainly is a balancing act and a struggle. For quite a while, I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to play mediator and put out fires (while my family had no clue what was going on). But, you're right: I was the controller. And I did blame myself.

I think I'm finally coming to a healthier place with all that. It's not something I want to just bring up at a random time, but once the subject does come up again, I'll tell him (kindly and with empathy) that, no, he won't know everything and that we can't control them or what they do or say. We can't make them change or bend to suit our needs/wants.