After 3 years of raging at me for hours upon hours I lost my temper

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was wondering if there are any local face to face support groups for partners in England -I live in the north west. For the first time on this forum here I'm finding people with similar stories. Because out in public my wife can be charming, sociable and extremely plausible up to now I have felt very alone and questioning  "could it really be me ".  

[Oxo]

I was wondering if there are any local face to face support groups for partners in England -I live in the north west. For the first time on this forum here I'm finding people with similar stories. Because out in public my wife can be charming, sociable and extremely plausible up to now I have felt very alone and questioning  "could it really be me ".  

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[Enabler]

Hey Oxo,

I'm in the UK as well. I don't know of any specifically, but to be honest I haven't looked for any. On group you could look into is CODA  www.coda-uk.org/, Codependants anonymous. I did look into this before and there seems to be support groups all over the country. Codependency is a bit of an overused term these days but you may well see ways in which it fits you. CODA will be very good at helping you to consider boundaries, your wife seems very 'cake and eat it' and unfortunately she's not likely to self regulate things like spending. I'm guessing you feel like one of limbs just there to serve her... it works well when you're on the same page and you're doing what she wants... but not so well when you're not jumping through the hoops she expects you to jump through.

How's it going in the old house? Have you managed to get some things jotted down? I found that writing memories and events down in chronological order helped make sense of things. Try and add as much detail as possible to formalise your memories. Holidays, births, deaths, arguments, friends, lost friends. Sometimes it's only when we take ourselves to 30,000ft that we can see the full picture of our reality. Many of the things you may well have felt guilty about from the past might be put in a different context.

Enabler   

[Oxo]

Hi Enabler 
Thanks for these wise words. Yes still down at the old house . But as most of our stuff went to the new house it feels more like camping than living. Afraid I feel completely defeated with moments of feeling more balanced as long as I don't focus on all the loss as the moment -it would be a very dark hole to stare down. After 3 years of raging at me for hours upon hours I lost my temper. We had just got back from a successful trip and long journey. I was tired and then she said to take the things in the car to the old house (she knows this is a button to press in me moving things as if in limbo) after an argument I relented and took them down.I thought it had past and we had a calm evening. I went to bed and fell into a deap sleep. At about 3am the came into my room and almost pushed me out of bed raging at me with the usual accusations. I was half asleep and in that state I stupidly picked up a knife and said "next you will be accusing me of threatening you with this how would you like it if I said you were threatening me " . It was stupid I know and never dreamed of threatening her but I fell right into the projective identification trap something I had always avoided. She phoned the police and was asked to leave. The next day she came to the old house as she had previously arranged for some friends to stay ,I said it was in-appropriate and she went ballistic again. Says feels unsafe with me but when suits happy to have me back. Now it's my anger issues that's the problem . As I said I am not excusing what happened but sooner or later it would be something but now she is finally able to completely focus on me being the problem and to some degree yes I feel so stupid for responding even though I was dazed and half asleep. I have never been threatening or abusive and to be honest quite a push over. I just don't know what to do now , yet she is still planning things for both of us. She tells me that now divorce will mean I have nothing because I have threatened her with a knife -its not true but I can't see how I can ever get anyone to believe that. She's contacting women's groups etc . I just feel so vulnerable and hard to see how I can get any control over my life. She's insisting I get "treatment" although anything I try to help me is discounted . If you knew me you would know how caring and accepting I am.

[Enabler]

Hey OXO,

Looks man, you feel vulnerable because you have not empowered yourself with knowledge. As one of the other board members says, she can tell you that unicorns are feeding on rainbow coloured mushrooms in the front garden and you'll believe her. Threatening someone with a knife is not good, I don't want to minimise that in the slightest, however, can we contextualise this with the fact that she's been harassing you for 3+ years, not to mention she came storming in at 3am and pushed you out of bed, it's enough to frighten the  out of anyone.

Firstly, from what I know about UK divorce procedure you threatening defending yourself with a knife in a one off incident is not grounds for her "taking the lot", that's unicorn thinking. I would seek some legal advice on this but since having an affair is not grounds for a greater share of the pot I'd be surprised if a moment of madness would be. Would she really want this to go to court and hear a long string of evidence about her behaviour.

Secondly, it's good that you have noticed that you have changed as a person. You sound like you have become a person you don't like, behaving in ways that aren't familiar with your norm... maybe even  behaving in a BPDish way. Some term this as "Catching flees". Living with a disordered person long enough it's common for people to start adopting behaviours similar to them... maybe in a "if you can't beat them join them" way. I know that I am not naturally passive aggressive, but I've become more so. I know that I hate silent treatment, yet sometimes I want to give my W a taste of her own medicine when she wants to communicate with me. Whatever it is, you can make choices FOR YOU. You could go down the route of anger management, this will give you tools to manage your own heightened emotional arousal, you could go to some CODA groups (I think this is a good cheap option and more than just good for your own emotional control, it will teach you there are other people in the same boat), you could also see a therapist. I was seeing a guy every week whilst I was trying to unravel the ball of string that was my marriage... my marriage is still a disaster, but I understand that's something I am no longer contributing towards, nor can I really change how my W feels about me... I now see my T (therapist) once a month in a maintenance relationship. It's good to get emotionally naked in front of someone, my T believes in unicorns, he knows that people behave differently behind closed doors and knows that other people just simply aren't in the right place to believe/see what's happening to you vs what your W might be telling them.

Have you heard the term FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) before? It sounds like you're in the thick of it. It's a way of getting and sustaining control over you. Has your W done anything regarding the divorce, does she expect you to do something about it?

Enabler 

[Oxo]

  getting very mixed messages. As I said I didn't threaten my wife but acknowledge in the half dazed state I was in did react to her accusations in a very stupid way by using a knife to demonstrate how absurd the accusations were. I do take full ownership that it was a stupid and inflammatory thing . I think one of the first triggers 3years ago was my mother dying who she hated with a passion and leaving me a small inheritance. My wife was brought up in poverty , had little childhood and obvious abandonedment stuff which always gets completely denied . She didn't go to father's funeral or visit him after he stayed with us for 3 years then abruptly left to live with one of her many brothers etc etc . But we are where we are and at this moment and yes I'm needing to get off the rollercoaster . I've started going to the gym as my health has taken a hit over the last three years ,started doing relaxing things  started connecting with friends , and decided to go back to work just to get a sense of me again.. To be honest although being by myself is hard I am getting a sense of peace. Thanks enabler Going to look at the codependance group it might be a help to explore how I relate to myself and  within my marriage.

[Enabler]

Okay so you didn’t threaten to use the knife, so I’m slightly lost as to what you did wrong?... and why for that matter you are the one that has been forced to move out of the home and live in relative discomfort?

I’m on the tube at the moment so can’t copy the link in but there’s a dynamic called the karpman triangle, the three corners are victim, perpetrator and rescuer. In this situation the police were the rescuers as they came in and told you to move out. Initially your wife was the perpetrator as she came in yelling at you, you were the victim... somehow and this is the art of BPD, she’s managed to use the event of you picking up the knife to spin the whole thing around to her being the victim and you being the perpetrator... almost like a slight of hand. You are now being treated by her as though you have wronged her. Is it fair to say that your wife always ends up as the victim (with the friends being cut off it sounds like she has form), and never ever sees herself as the perpetrator?

If I had to draw up a plan of action, firstly buy and read “stop walking on eggshells” or “stop feeding the narcissist / borderline”, both good. Start journalling all interactions with your W, and any historical events you can remember, more detail the better to get a clear picture. Find a CODA meeting and give it a go. Find a therapist and start to unravel yourself. One aim could be to move back into the comfort of your own home, I suggest this should be an aim once you have sufficient protection of knowledge and understanding about yourself and her sensitivities. At the moment you are absorbing all the guilt SHE should be dealing with... and get a good lock for the bedroom door.

Mental shape is just as important as physical shape.

Keep writing, especially with some situations or interactions you might have with your W, that’s helpful as we can start to look at them differently and unpick.

Re your Ws reaction to your mum and her father, have you heard the term black and white thinks before? People with BPD struggle dichotomous thinking, ie they can’t think of things being both good and bad at the same time. There is no grey. Your mother may have judged her in the past... Black. Her father rejected/abandoned her when he left abruptly... Black. You have clearly done something to be ‘split’ black.

Enabler

[Oxo]

Hi Enabler , I've already taken up your suggestion of Coda and made contact -yes there is a group about 30 miles away so thanks. I've started to go to the local carers centre and accessd a referral for counseling and informally a couple of people/ friends  but placed ground rules I don't manopolise our time with my wife but talk about other things and given them permission to stop me if I revert to talking about the situation - I need to get in touch with other bits of me. I've recently got a copy of "eggshells" about halfway through it and  makes painful reading as it's like an - autobiography . So from your time with me today I've taken it on board and acted.. yes know of the drama triangle and how she responds with me and then can turn on an instant the victim role is quite frightening. I still struggle with how she has changed in such a small time as we have been together for over 37 years.although traits were there I always accepted them.once again  Many thanks for your time with me. .

[Enabler]

As you will know from your reading. Emotional regulation is at the heart of BPD, you mentioned cancer and cancer treatment, the fear of death can be very traumatic and maybe stir up long suppressed feelings which left undealt with can fester and play on someone’s mind. Who knows, maybe thinking about death made her think about her life and a long lost childhood. Sometimes by hook or by crook we’ve just managed to stay on the right side of them for many many years. Was there a period where you really really let her down and she might have felt really abandoned by you?

Well done for auctioning those ideas, great work.

Enabler

[Oxo]

I can't remember any time I really let her down in my heart of hearts , although she brings up things now with years of resentment some from 20+ years ago which never seemed a problem until now. There was only once before when she was similar to now and that was after the birth of our first child 28 years ago . She turned on me for about 2 weeks accusing me of abandonedment in the hospital after she gave birth. The facts were I stayed throughout the birth , escorted her to the ward but as it was night I could not enter until morning which I did . As I said it lasted about 2 weeks then disappeared as if it never happened. I guess I have nievely hoped it would be similar this time. If our life had been constant drama I could get my head around it but it hasn't. But over the years I have explained away or accepted or accommodated  things . I met her today as she had got some tickets for an event which went well but inside it is killing me as I still love her so much. Not sure if it helps meeting , I don't know if it's because she wants to or just because she struggles being alone and if there are others there I would not be needed. I guess that has always been an issue but in the past I've always thought it's my own low self esteem that's giving me those doubts.

[Enabler]

Understanding emotional memory vs long term memory might give you some insight into why these long distant memories still seem to be very real and very live for her. There's a bunch of different way I try and rationalise it (and this is my rationalisation)... Like a computer, our brains have 2 bits of memory, the RAM and the hard drive. RAM is what we use on a daily basis which we need to access all the time, it's our go-to info with which we live our lives by. Hard drive is where we store all the old bits of compartmentalised 'stuff' that we might want to access but probably don't need to subconsciously rely up. So, some events which are highly emotionally charged (like giving birth) or put another way, are traumatic, don't or can't get compartmentalised and popped in their appropriate hard drive place... so, they hang around in the RAM. Although they aren't apparent, they're accessed when they really shouldn't be, they are referenced as 'useful info' when they are actually pretty irrelevant. Classic example is when a soldier comes back from a war zone and hears a fire crack or misfire from an exhaust... they know they aren't in a war zone and therefore the instinctive reaction isn't to take cover or be alert to take arms... but, for some reason the emotional trauma of war stays in the RAM and the soldier dives for cover and has VERY REAL FEAR. They feel fear AS IF WERE REAL and AS IF IT WAS HAPPENING NOW. Emotional RAM memory has no time series, it's not filed in chronological order to age and decay like a normal memory, it stays live and stays real and stays NOW.

Maybe your wife had an emotional experience when she was younger, maybe a mother or father leaving her, that stays as an unresolved trauma, an unresolved bogus reference point with which she compares other experiences to, such as you leaving because you weren't allowed in the ward. This additional trauma is added to the other trauma such that it grows and becomes self confirming... "People always leave me". Abandonment could be physical or it could be emotional,m it could be real or it could be perceived, but she uses these errant reference anchor points to judge current experiences with.

Meeting with her is probably a good thing. I wouldn't expect her to build trust in you in the traditional sense, sometimes one sits there and thinks "I have shown you nothing but loving and honourable behaviour yet you still don't trust me... how?" That would be the dodgy anchor points. Do you somtimes feel like you're being held off the ground by your neck at arms length... nice and safe, nice and under control... neutralised and emasculated?

Good work in looking at you, it's the right thing to be doing at the moment. You have choices, own them.

Enabler 

[Oxo]

Hi Enabler, yes it's like you know me too well. I'm spending a lot of time processing all this.
I guess my wife is good when people around her are struggling - I always put that down to her being a parentalised child although I suspect I have colluded with that at times and see it in how she treats her youngest sister who has a serious mental health problem she seems to function much better when others are struggling and probably on some level keeps them there (including me), she now resents that although cannot see how it been mutual in that I have supported her throughout our time although I've not kept tally as it was what you do in a relationship.Today was a bad day  , I have taken a small job where I used to work nothing too stressful now as done that and  that and wear the scars   ! But it was about having something for me outside of my hell of a private life. just before I was due to set off I lost my car key (psychoanalysis would have a field day with that)so had to phone her for the spare .she came to rescue me but refused to give be the spare as she text "I suspect your motives" , she made me jump through hoops before giving it to me . Later I returned it to show faith and validated her for helping me and empathised that me loosing the key put stress on her whilst she was trying to stay calm . She  was pleasant talking about longer term things with the new house although I was sat not knowing if I will be living there and  having the awkward chat to HR  explaing why my address was different than on the original application form. It's like she has no compassion about the state of how I am living in an empty house not wanting to start to rebuild until I am certain about crossing the Rubicon and saying finally we are separated.

[Enabler]

it's like you know me too well. I'm spending a lot of time processing all this.

The longer you spend here, the more you will be surprised that despite people being in different continents, having partners, children, parents or friends with diagnosed or undiagnosed BPD, you will feel like they are living your life... it's almost formulaic. This is why I encourage you soo much to educate yourself more and more and more about emotional regulation and the impacts on peoples thought process. Education is your emotional armour against the attacks of someone with an emotional regulation disorder... current or future. As "different" as we all perceive ourselves to be, there's an incredible amount of similarity in the way we respond given a set of circumstances and if part of that set of circumstances includes having an emotional regulation disorder there will also be commonality in the way we react there.

It's good to be accountable for your failings, it's a very honest and honourable thing to do and good way to be. I fear somehow though that you're beating yourself up for losing the car key... again, like the knife, it's sub-optimal... but it was your first day at a new job... OF COURSE YOU WERE GOING TO LOSE THE KEY    what other day were you going to lose the key? It's one of those things mate, it doesn't make you a bad person. Treat yourself kindly, brush it off and certainly take that mantra with your wife, do not lay on the floor for her to kick you.

Well done for going back to work. It'll be great for your confidence, it's a good social network to plug into and spread your wings and gets your mind off ruminating on your situation... keep climbing up, NO MORE DIGGING THE BOTTOM OF THE HOLE. Onwards and upwards 

Enabler

[Oxo]

Thanks Enabler, you are a great grounding influence at the moment for me. Phoned another couple of old colleagues and committed to staying in contact and again set ground rules to stop me ruminating over what's happening.

[Enabler]

Ruminating is good at times... you can ruminate and come up with solutions or greater depth of understanding... but it can so easily turn into a death spiral. Allow yourself time to think things through but stop yourself and do something different when you find yourself in a death spiral of unproductive thoughts. I've done my rumination, it was useful and productive... now I move forward with purpose and understanding. Give yourself time for everything, get out... and get in.

Enabler

[Oxo]

Thanks Enabler , went along to a CoDA meeting tonight and going to give it a try.

[Enabler]

That’s great news. Did any of it ring true. Do let us know how you get on.

How are things going in general?

[Oxo]

Hi yes, to be honest yes I can see how it relates to me and admitting and owning that starts to make so much sense. I guess it wasn't totally unconscious but actually admitting that I fear being alone at any cost  and I do validate myself through others and  strive to be a people pleaser and rescuer. So much of my life with my wife makes sense now particularly how we met .
Things at the moment are bad to worse in one respect. I reaped the whirlwind of multiple texts throughout the night as I had stated I was going to the support meeting. I have also not gone running at every order she has made and stayed away this weekend (one minute she wanted me there,  then not then I would receive a shopping list - but instead of hanging on and doing whatever was asked I've just stepped off the rollercoaster -responded with empathic statements to the accusations but firmly said no I am not jumping .We are still living separate and although at times the isolation feels hard I think I've come to realize I can not continue with the status quo. Her last text is now demanding to know which bedroom I am sleeping in as I am inhibiting her from income generation and intends to rent out the house! We never had plans to rent it and I am joint owner as with the other house. I feel supprisingly at ease with the thought we may now be on the path towards separation. I really don't want it and love her still but the truth is I've had to stop myself loving her as the anger, rejection and constant mind games is slowly but very surely distroying me .  

[Enabler]

Hiya,

I sounds like she doesn’t like you having your own mind and your own independence. You are doing things to improve yourself, things that open your eyes to yourself and to the behaviours of your wife. I think you can imagine how dangerous and threatening that may appear to someone whom is clearly used to getting her own way.

Your W cannot just rent out residual rooms in your home, that clearly wouldn’t work on a practical basis given you’re living there and would need to sign any sort of tenancy agreement etc etc. One thing that would be good to get into the habit of doing is leaving a pause between commuting emotional energy to the things she says. This could sound contemptuous any I don’t mean you to end up that way. But leaving a pause to allow rational thought. NOT ALL THE THINGS YOIR WIFE SAYS HAVE ANY GROUNDING IN REALITY... so don’t treat them as such.

“That doesn’t work for me”

Keep working on you, keep being fair to yourself and take your ears elsewhere when the blah blah begins.

Enabler

[Oxo]

Very wise words - a good old friend said something that really hit home - (I worked in. mental health all my life)  - stop seeing your wife as a patient and stop making mental health formulations to excuse how she is treating you . You've slept with her for 36 years you don't sleep with your patients otherwise you would have been locked up ! - that stopped me in my tracks.

[Enabler]

What do you think he meant by that?

BPD is the framework I use to rationalise how my W behaves and the choices she makes (some of those choices being abusive towards me). It’s also a framework I use to explain my own reactions and feelings of hurt towards her. As much as understanding BPD has helped me understand my wife, understanding emotions and how we behave when dysregulted has also helped me understand myself when I’m in intensely emotional situations.

It was only when I took myself to the stratosphere I saw my reality and the reality of my situation for what it was.

Enabler

[Oxo]

I have through fear of loosing my lovely wife , denying my situation, accepting every demand and taking all the guilt and trying to make it better. I explained it away and detached myself by profesonalising it and denying the reality, that was I felt so alone , so unloved and so vulnerable and so controlled.if only  I tried harder ,if only I had responded differently  , if if if .Others could see it , see just how I had changed and how much I had given up, yet I just continued to accept it because I hate to say - probably felt  I wasn't worth anything more. When I started to get my head around BPD and reading (in secret) and as you say looking down from above . The reality started to dawn my first reaction was why couldn't I see it before. as I started to say I have needs , set boundaries the behaviour spiraled,  To the point where we are now. Realistically the few friends I have that are supporting me are becoming irritated with me because I've stuck my head in the sand , egnored the bleeding obvious and continued to intulectuluse it for the last 3 years . It's taken a long time to accept that what I was striving for was unobtainable -that my wife would love me  make me feel good  , make me feel wanted - like it used to be. Going to the CODA meeting was me saying I have been chasing rainbows  I have been trying to change my wife , stop the hours upon hours of rage and regection .I realise now I am powerless to do that  I cannot change the venomous hatered she feels and no amount of giving is going to change that .

[Enabler]

Oxo... good work fella. You summed up a heck of a lot in that little  nugget. You have what they called ‘radically accepted’ your situation and that my man is a MASSIVE step in the right direction.

So, now you see your reality for why it is, you need to start looking through the ‘noise’ give yourself a pause and filter what your W says. Not in an arrogant way, since even blind squirrels find nuts, but you cannot rely on your W to think rationally and therefore determine what is and what isn’t cool. Which leads us back to your point above, she may want to rent out the rooms in the house you’re living in, she may feel she’s entitled to 100% of the marital assets, she may believe there are pink unicorns grazing on magic mushrooms in the front garden... she may even think you have a harem of 20yr olds living in your house... but it doesn’t make any of it true.

Make space for yourself to filter, it’s not easy but create a holding pen for her words before they attack your heart, reject the nonesense and work on the rest. All the time she attack’s you is time she’s not spending looking at herself.

You’re doing well buddy.

Enabler

[Oxo]

Cheers Enabler, at times it feels one step forward and 3 back . She is clearly isolating me and like today I've got up thought it's time to do some washing down here  only to find the washing machine not working and it's not a simple fix as it is a big industrial one in the cellar. By  by myself and today no one to pop in for a brew  feeling vulnerable and was just was another kick in the teeth. Guess I know it's going to be good days and bad . She is clearly now setting up for a divorce the texts are clearly manufactured from advice she is getting from somewhere.

[Enabler]

Dude, sorry to hear about the washing machine, the tub bearing went on mine last week, it’s been making a racket for months so I feel blessed it’s held on this long... you can’t replace the bearing as the tub is constructed around it and the tub was £300... so just bought a whole new one for £320. Seems a shame to Chuck such a huge chunk of metal in the scrap heap over a bearing... but such is life!

You’ll deal with it, it’s a road hump.

Misery loves company and no doubt your W has surrounded herself with similarly miserable people. Empower yourself with knowledge. Know your legal rights and let much of her texts float past you.

Enabler 

[Oxo]

Cheers. If I haven't I'll say it now - thanks .
When my life gets better I won't forget all this . We probably will never meet but have a beer on me x
If my life had been  crisis after crisis maybe I  might have been better equipped but I'm in a very alien world now. I guess I have never felt so alone . Still I hope going back to work might not be what I really want but its something.

[Enabler]

Going back to work is a good way to put some pride back around those bones. The youngens will take care of you and hopefully give you a boost. You can also take the opportunity to look at those people with YOUR eyes not the eyes of your wife. You might even be able to look at yourself through your wyes instead of through the mirror of your wife.

Maybe reframe going back to work as your choice and a positive choice as part of your new adventure... it may help you feel more positive rather than seeing it as a function of circumstance or your wife’s choices.

Enabler

[Enabler]

PS... the pleasure is all mine. One day you might help others through your own experiences.

[Oxo]

When I called in for my interview. It was wonderful to have people embracing me and genuinely happy to see me. For the first time in the last 3 years I felt like me again . Once I am in healthy company I come alive again and bounce back -like a wilting house plant given water. I know I have been gaslighted but being told repeatedly I am bizarre , ill and needing treatment takes its toll .

[Oxo]

Something that has changed for me this morning was after I retired I started volunteering. But never really got into it , alway feeling guilty and doing the absolute minimum requirement which is a couple of hours every 42 days. Today I got up and sent a load of dates maybe 1 per week and did not feel guilty or selfish.
Reflecting back - I was not neglecting my wife or leaving her when she needed me the reality was it was only a few hours periodically and she was more than able to socialise and do things - in fact far more than me although in the fog I just did not see the bleeding obvious.

[Enabler]

Great work, step by step you’re chewing through it. Looking at each and every way you acted in a way that wasn’t reasonable. I’m not suggesting you become cold and self serving but as you say, a couple of hours a week is more than reasonable and not onerous on a healthy grown adult.

Keep opening those eyes little by little, keeping seeing things for how they are.

Well done my friend.

Enabler