if we end the relationship why does it feel like we are them?

[truthbeknown]

because of all the negative ups/downs i'm considering ending the relationship.  Well also because of the circumstances (I would have to marry her and convert her status from student visa to spousal visa) it feels unsafe for me to proceed with her behaving the way that she does.  But from reading all the posts on how pwBPD usually end the relationship, it has me questioning how to distinguish the difference between a non ending a relationship and a pwBPD ending one?

In other words, she has admitted to insecure attachment style and while in the beginning of the relationship I was the one that had to tell her not to threaten to end the relationship every time she gets stressed (dysregulated), now I have find myself doing the same thing because of reaction to her extreme fluctuations in behavior.   Earlier in the month she pushed me away and then when I retreated for several weeks (long story) she sent me a nice email saying what outcome she wants:  she said her outcome was to rebuild our friendship so we don't fight as much, to help me to feel more secure about her and her love for me etc.   It was sweet and of course it won me over.  Two weeks later she picked our recent "fight" and it's almost like I feel she is a different person when she does this.  But we're supposed to talk tomorrow or sunday and I might tell her that I can't commit to marriage which would end the relationship.  I'm having a hard time detaching.  I really don't want to decide.  In some weird way (maybe because I've had previous relationships with pwBPD) i'm hoping she ends it versus me.   I have had this happen in  a previous relationship and it wasn't pretty.  She cheated.  Reflecting back on that relationship, I eluded to it not working out after she showed BPD traits.  She charmed me back in and then sabotaged the relationship by cheating later.   Felt very passive aggressive to be honest.  

With this relationship she is really trying.  She just fails and keeps sabotaging or getting dysregulated.  I think i'm having a hard time rectifying in my mind is she trying because she really needs this relationship and then once she gets her status changed her desire will go away?  That's what i'm afraid of.  That i'll tell myself she is trying and doing all the right things and then later find out it was all a BPD game that I was playing?  

Anyway I'm having a hard time thinking about detaching from her despite the trauma bouts that come up between us.  I remember the last time I saw her she got mad at me for not having sex with her on 2 hours of sleep and because we needed to get to the airport ontime.  She almost missed the flight and still believes that I should have shown her more affection before she left.  She did not talk to me on the way to the airport and then after getting home she sent a message saying she was sorry for the bad feelings.  

My point is that she mostly has been trying real hard in the last few months but also sabotaging big time.  Lately she has been painting me black and I think it is an attempt to prove my flaws so she is not the only on in the spot light?

So since this is a detaching board:  I feel like I need to detach but I don't know how and I'm afraid of hurting her.  So in this case she is not leaving me without closure.  

I'm questioning myself big time.

[PeteWitsend]

 Well also because of the circumstances (I would have to marry her and convert her status from student visa to spousal visa) it feels unsafe for me to proceed with her behaving the way that she does...

Let me just say... YIKES.

I was in this same situation, and felt marriage would improve our relationship.  It didn't obviously, because her issues arose from her personality disorder, not from her situation.

once after a fight, I went no contact, because I was completely bewildered by the abruptness of the fight and her lack of any explanation for it... and then she sent me this sweet email apologizing and begging me to forgive her and I - like a sap - dropped my healthy skepticism and wariness of her obvious instability.  sounds like you did the same.

So, if you're already posting here, you're obviously not happy with the relationship.  and with BPD, increasing commitment to a person tends to increase the dysregulation and conflict, since now their fear of abandonment and separation anxiety are fully engaged and triggered by everything you do.

So expect to be posting here a lot more if you do marry her.

Also, if this isn't your first go around with a pwBPD, I suggest you find a T and discuss why this keeps happening to you.  You need to understand this about yourself.

[PeteWitsend]

... in the beginning of the relationship I was the one that had to tell her not to threaten to end the relationship every time she gets stressed (dysregulated), now I have find myself doing the same thing because of reaction to her extreme fluctuations in behavior.  

I'm questioning myself big time.

I first reached out on the internet (not this board, but people helpfully pointed me here) 3 years ago, because I was completely bewildered by my XW's behavior.  someone mentioned BPD, and noted that it is notorious as a "crazy making" disorder, i.e. it almost appears contagious, unlike other mental disorders. 

spouses and significant others of pwBPD often find themselves in therapy trying to make sense of the craziness, and get an honest opinion as to whether they're  crazy too.   Of course it's nearly impossible to get pwBPD to see a T themselves...

Sounds like you're experiencing this a bit already. 

[truthbeknown]

if I hold a boundary like you did then she has gotten more mad recently and then the conversation afterwards can be contentious because she comes on mad and wanting me to acknowledge that I hurt her feelings.  As long as I comply then she will switch back into the lovey dovey mode but if I resist for any reason then she stays mad.  Its pretty bizarre.  I have linked certain things to her mood swings and most have come from hormone so they did improve when we had no sex and when she didn't self gratify.   The book Cupids Poison Arrow talks about situations like these but I think she is addicted to the hormone release so even when not together she get dysregulated from the hormone "fallout".    So I guess I believed we could work on that but recently there has been some twisting of facts about her situation and paranoia about not telling me. 

As far as working on myself, I thought I had but ultimately they say empathic, caring people attract these types of people.   So still a work in progress.

[Cat Familiar]

if I hold a boundary like you did then she has gotten more mad recently and then the conversation afterwards can be contentious because she comes on mad and wanting me to acknowledge that I hurt her feelings.  As long as I comply then she will switch back into the lovey dovey mode but if I resist for any reason then she stays mad. 

they say empathic, caring people attract these types of people.   

Have you researched codependency? Codependent Relationships

Here's an article on Setting Boundaries

Boundaries are to protect you, not to change someone else's behavior. If you are apologizing for having boundaries, you set yourself up to be the target of abusive behavior.

[truthbeknown]

yes and I know I have to be careful with that tendency.  I read the link/ article but one thing that is happening to me is that I have followed boundaries.  The first time she sweared at me I told her I was done with that conversation and then when I found out she was concealing something from me I said that I wouldn't talk about anymore serious issues regarding immigration until I receive her letter that was explaining things.  This took a week and a half but I held my boundary. 

I think where I might have caved is that after finding out what she had told me in the letter, I could have walked away from the relationship because in the beginning when she withheld some info from me I told her that I valued honesty and if she lied or withheld important information again that I would be done.  I had my own inner conflict and let that boundary cave because I am so attached to her and I do care about her when she is in her "good side".   

Since then she has been less respectful of me so she must have remembered what I said?

This week I told her that I would reconnect on Monday after I pulled away/ boundary for her saying disparaging comments about me and framing me negatively.  I upheld our agreement which was to tell her when I would return so she wouldn't feel abandoned.  However, I made the mistake of sending an email (hindsight) because in there I said, "if you think I am xyz then maybe i'm not the guy for you."  Well actually and to be brutally honest-  I think I needed to know if she was truly borderline so I admit to some testing as I was in a negative place myself and thought if she was not BPD then she can handle this, if she is i'll get backlash.  Sure enough, she has given me the silent treatment and been very stand offish which I can totally understand from a BPD perspective. 

Now, i'm confronted with the thing that I am challenged with; having to make a choice between me and her.  I wish BPD's didn't put us in this position.  I wish I was stronger and able to deal with this but I am terrified if I cave again I could be in for some big time pain later if she disrespects me at an entirely new level. 

There is another possibility and someone on this board had mentioned that things could improve but right now it seems like a big gamble especially when she is playing this game with me of win/lose in her mind.   She is actually trying to act like the "mature" one now and turn the tables and perhaps? frustrate me with her behavior (silent treatment).   But we scheduled time to talk on Sunday.  I just don't know how I move forward, what I want to say etc.  I'm in the healing profession and I like to heal and repair.  I have a tendency toward wanting that.  What if that is one of my values?
Ironic how putting up boundaries gets misconstrued by them as "an avoidant personality".  She calls all of her ex's avoidants.  Now i think i know why.   

I love her and still want to have hope for her but because of the immigration component it makes it very risky.  If she was a citizen here then i would not marry but who knows if she would have accepted that either. 

this is frustrating to go through but perhaps better now then later...

[truthbeknown]

forgot to ask this:  so in anyone's opinion, when you set boundaries on a person with BPD and they take that as you rejecting them, how is one to handle that.  In other words, they switch to an avoidant now because they feel angry that the other person rejected them.   That sets up this push pull dynamic.  Is there a healthy way to handle this in someone's opinion?

[Cat Familiar]

If you haven't defended your boundaries in a relationship and then you begin defining your personal values and setting limits on what is acceptable to you, it's not going to be easily tolerated by a partner with BPD. That is a given.

However if you stand strong and continue to behave in a manner consistent with your values, then your partner will either adapt or they won't. This will inform you about whether your relationship will ever become a low-conflict one.

[truthbeknown]

What i'm looking at is my own boundaries for myself.  I'm questioning if I'm taking care of myself properly and if being in this relationship or continuing in this relationship is a poor boundary for my values of what I want for my life.   
 Of course there are things i'm afraid of: like being in a relationship with a person who has BPD or who has inflexible thinking etc.   Because I have been down that path and still paying the price for not understanding how to handle a high conflict personality.  I'm sure it would be good growth in some ways but questioning if that is what I want.  A bit torn for sure as I have grown fond of her.  Thank you for your input on this.  We will talk tomorrow.  I hope I handle it okay.   

any suggestions would be great!

[Mrb87]

I say end it, it is nothing but a game and trying to survive to meet her needs. As soon as she gets the marriage visa u are trapped and she gets what she wants. We are nothing but objects they use. Don’t be an object of hers.  End it before you dig a deeper hole.

[truthbeknown]

well I didn't have to break things off- she did.  she turned everything around on me.  She felt criticized and said that she thinks I wanted her to apologize and come crawling back to me.  Geeze, either she was talking to someone else or she just switched personalities on me.  She started out real harsh but yet was crying the whole time.  She said she had to be the brave one and break up with me.

We spent 3 hours on the phone because everytime I tried to go she wanted to continue the conversation.  Keep in mind she knew I was starting a new job the next day and she still needed to "steal the show" again.   No consideration on how that would affect me going into the new job.  How selfish.  When she used to threaten to end the relationship or find someone new, I would give her warnings like "if you continue to do this, it can and will hurt the relationship."   So even if she misread my comments or their intent in the email I sent her (which was a rebuttal to her disrespecting me etc) she still did not match my efforts to try and "cut slack".  I find pwBPD can't cut slack.  They can dish it out but they can't take it.  They are so sensitive but they don't mind hurting others or doing the things they don't like to others.  I know i'm venting.  I have to.  There was so much good in her but so much damage too.  She turned her damage onto me seeing me as the damaged one.  So fascinating.   Despite everything I managed to get her to soften up at the end of the conversation and leave the door open to communicating again and touching base.  I don't know if it will really happen but it felt better to end that way then to end with her being mad.   I doubt she'll let me be friends and then I might not be able to if she is going to have to find someone new.