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Author Topic: Hopelessness  (Read 672 times)
JNChell
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« on: July 06, 2019, 01:49:49 PM »

I’m feeling awful down suddenly. Another damn symptom of this crap. It wants to turn into rage, but I’m not going to allow that to happen. I’ve got this. I just thought that I should immediately bring it here. I could benefit from some help right now.
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2019, 03:47:39 PM »

I'm so sorry you are down, JNChell. It just sucks sometimes doesn't it?

I've noticed you've been up and down here recently. Do you have any insight into what sends you down?
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2019, 03:51:50 PM »

Hi JNChell Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Dealing with feelings of hopelessness can be very difficult indeed. Did anything perhaps happen recently that might have contributed to you feeling this way now? Could for instance also be something you read, saw or heard somewhere.

The Board Parrot
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2019, 04:24:25 PM »

I apologized to my Son’s mom last night. I did things wrong as well. I spilled my guts. Not hearing anything back was expected, but none the less hurtful. I’m doubting myself because I’m not getting a response. I had to say that I was sorry, because I am. I knew the consequences, and the pain is real. I don’t regret apologizing. I think that that had to be done.

Hopelessness runs deep. It’s a daily battle. It’s a SOB. Maybe one day I’ll find someone that understands.
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JNChell
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2019, 04:42:21 PM »

GaGrl, thank you  for responding and noticing. It’s just part of the process. I just need to talk about it and I’m I’m glad that you and the board parrot are here to receive me. The crap has hit me like a ton of bricks today. Hard. Out of no where.
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JNChell
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2019, 04:58:11 PM »

Maybe I have bad narc tendencies. Maybe I’m just sad over some things. Maybe I’m still angry over some things. I don’t really know. The confusion is hard when I feel like this.
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2019, 04:59:36 PM »

I apologized to my Son’s mom last night. I did things wrong as well. I spilled my guts. Not hearing anything back was expected, but none the less hurtful. I’m doubting myself because I’m not getting a response.

I can see how interacting with your son's mother could trigger certain negative emotions in you, considering all the history there.

How did you apologize to her, in person or by phone/text/email?

Were there any specific behaviors or events you apologized for?
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2019, 05:10:14 PM »

It was by text. I apologized to her because I picked at her scabs, and I said that. Kwamina, I’m not even sure if she’s BPD. She presents with it, but I have my own stuff. I did a lot wrong. I never hit her or anything like that. I tried to talk nice to her and got raged at for it. I reacted wrong to the raging. I know the tools now. I did everything wrong. It’s too late now. I’m panicking a bit.
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2019, 05:24:06 PM »

What's done is done. Once we know better, we can do better.

Whether she officially has BPD or not, the only thing you can attempt to control is your own behavior. Acknowledging that you might have done certain things better is already a positive step forward  Now that you are aware of all the tools described on this site, you can use them in future interactions with people to more constructively deal with any issues which might arise.

Why did you decide to apologize to her now?

You say her not responding was to be expected but are you perhaps hoping that she actually will respond? What is the outcome you are looking/hoping for here?
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JNChell
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »

I don’t have an answer on why I chose last night. I just needed to. She’s the mother of my child.

A response would be nice. The closure thing. Know what I mean?
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2019, 05:34:00 PM »

We both hurt each other in so many ways. I just had to say my piece. And peace.
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 09:27:49 PM »

Some times our partners don't give us forgiveness or respond - some times it is just a way to get back - even the score.

You've reached out a few times. It might be time to let it go.

Uncomfortable? Yes. Life's journey? Yes.
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JNChell
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2019, 09:42:24 PM »

Maybe you’re right. Just let it go. That’s hard to do, Skip. I started doing that last night. I was honest with her. Open. I told her all I could say. Not getting a response is hard, but I’m ok with it. Yes, I’ve reached out to her a lot. Nothing good has come from doing that. I can’t even call it ignorance. It’s been dumb. It’s taken me a long time to really understand that I need to stay away from her. She needs to stay away from me. I’m at different level and I’m feeling a lot of hurt. I’m hurting. I’m tired of these layers, Skip. A guy feels good, then he doesn’t.
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2019, 08:27:19 AM »

Not getting a response is hard, but I’m ok with it. Yes, I’ve reached out to her a lot.

You have. She has responded, too. She doesn't want to respond anymore.

I date a women many years ago. When she divorced her husband, she ended communication in total. They shared a child, worked at it well together, but she communicated via the new girlfriend/wife. When she and I broke up, it was amicable... but she also cut off communication.  I tried contacting her once 2 years later - then once 5 years later - light "friend" notes - no response.

It's very unsettling when someone refuses to respond to you - even in a case like mine above where it was no big deal.

Some times we just need to accept it, respect it, live with it. Don't try to out do it.

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JNChell
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2019, 07:20:54 PM »

I see your point, Skip. I think I’ve been pushing back against acceptance due to a deep want for closure. I imagine if closure was an option, that it would’ve come by now. I would probably question it and have doubts about it this far down the road. You’re right. It is what it is. There’s really no wisdom in prolonging any level of suffering or hard feelings. My attempts at getting answers will only do that. Thanks for pointing this out and sharing your insight.
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2019, 07:43:39 PM »

JNChell, you refer to closure a lot, or actually the lack of closure you have for certain things.

What is closure for you?  What does it mean?  Is it realistic in the situations you are seeking it (specifically with your ex and your parents)?
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2019, 08:25:55 PM »

No, it isn’t realistic. My parents have passed and my ex won’t give it. The closure would be accountability and a meaningful apology. Maybe a cup of coffee with S4’s mom so we we could both explain to each other what we did wrong and leave the meeting in peace and move forward in a way that benefits our boy. I understand your question perfectly, I’m not trying to make excuses. I’ve experienced a lot of situations over the years where there was no closure. If there was, I wasn’t able to hear it or process it. I’m assuming that leads back to childhood. I’ve also stated several times about how I confronted my parents, and how I was shot down. I’m not looking for sympathy, I bring my thoughts here because I’m looking for guidance in putting together my puzzle. I think about it a lot anymore and can’t always find a solution or direction on my own.
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2019, 08:57:50 PM »

Excerpt
I understand your question perfectly, I’m not trying to make excuses.
Actually, I was/am interested in what it means to you personally and thinking about what it means to me and why it is not something I think about hardly at all, not now and not years ago.

Excerpt
I’m not looking for sympathy, I bring my thoughts here because I’m looking for guidance in putting together my puzzle. I think about it a lot anymore and can’t always find a solution or direction on my own.
I simply want to understand when you use the word closure JNChell, not offer your sympathy, which does nothing IMO and is meaningless in situations like this, at least for me.  

Closure is possible.  We can give it to ourself.  That is my belief and is why I was intrigued by your use of the word and how important it is to you.  I understand you better now.    
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2019, 06:14:20 AM »

I think making amends is for us. The other person may or may not accept it or reply. That's their choice.  But you made the amends part. Perhaps your feelings are due to unfulfilled expectations- what you would do if you were in her shoes- which is accept the opportunity for closure. But she isn't you- she chooses.

I spent time wishing for closure or validation when my father died- wishing that people I cared about would "do what I would do".  Grieving that they didn't. Somehow making their behavior about me- as if I did something wrong. But I didn't do anything wrong. These were people who didn't do what I would have done. They did things their way.

I think some people are too wrapped up in their own stuff to be able to give us closure. It's not anything to do with us, but where they are in their own lives. My BPD mom is wrapped up in her own inner turmoil, her family is self absorbed. Sometimes I too am guilty of not being emotionally available to others due to being busy. Whatever it is, it's likely to not be about us.

One we apologize for something, it's our of our hands. Of course we should not continue to do the behavior we apologized for, but after that, the ball is their court. You've done your part. It makes sense to grieve the loss of a relationship- and let yourself grieve,  but then, I hope you allow yourself to also let the grief go.





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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2019, 09:13:00 PM »

JNChell,

I apologized to my Son’s mom last night.

leave the meeting in peace and move forward in a way that benefits our boy.

What I hear from this and other posts of yours is a loving father who desperately wants to give his son a family and possibly with an energy driven by the lack of family that you never had.

I struggled with this too.  I was trying to put together a family but it was driven by the sadness of the family I never had growing up.

What helped me was going back to my childhood and do the work and grieve the family that I never I never had.  I had to feel the feelings and let them go.  Then they changed shape and I was able to move on.

I also had to grieve the loss of a dream.  Then I realized, that I never had a family anyway with my exH.  It was just the illusion of a family. 

You made amends for you.  To keep your side of the street clean.  What she does with the information is up to her.  It's out of your control.  You did it to take care of yourself and that is a healthy thing to do.  You took ownership of your behavior.  Good for you.
It is a personal inventory so to speak.  I try to take a daily inventory of my behavior and if I have done something out of line I will make amends. Most times I make a living amends.  What I mean by that is to make a decision to change my behavior.  Words don't always mean something but action speaks louder than words.

 

BG

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JNChell
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 11:21:56 AM »

Hi, Harri.

Actually, I was/am interested in what it means to you personally and thinking about what it means to me and why it is not something I think about hardly at all, not now and not years ago.

I’m a little unsure here. Are you wondering why you haven’t had those feelings and I have? I apologize. I’m just asking so we can be on the same page. I don’t always understand things that are right in front of my face.

“Closure” is something that I’ve been clinging to. I read back through my posts. I know where that thought is seeded and why I think I need it so much in the present. I have to give it to myself. RA. If I really want it, that’s where it is.

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JNChell
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 11:45:50 AM »

Notwendy

Perhaps your feelings are due to unfulfilled expectations

You may be right. Along with the grocery list of things I need to be mindful of, expectations is near the top. I think expectations are ok when they’re reasonable. By reasonable, I mean, we could almost draft a generic template on what is right and wrong as far as expectations go. Beyond that I think that maybe projection and mirroring and all of that stuff comes into play. Manipulation. I’m not just talking about pwBPD. Expectations should be sat with before they’re deployed.

I think some people are too wrapped up in their own stuff to be able to give us closure.

I agree. I also wonder if the toxic shame and denial doesn’t allow them to empathize and give a little grace to those that they’ve hurt. It might destroy their ego. I’m leaning towards narcissism with that statement, but I think it all applies. My Sis is a psychologist. She told me that if S4’s mom ever apologizes to me that it won’t happen for a long time because that would mean that she’s done something wrong. I’ll never get an apology. She would have to do a lot of that before it ever got to me.

I’m finally at a stage where I’m really letting go. I’ve talked about it here several times, only to find myself stuck again. It’s not like that this time. I feel at peace with my decision and where my decision meets my consciousness.
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JNChell
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 12:00:01 PM »

Hi, Bluegill.

What I hear from this and other posts of yours is a loving father who desperately wants to give his son a family and possibly with an energy driven by the lack of family that you never had.

You’re right. I would like my Son to experience a healthy home environment as he grows. As we know, chaos can have adverse affects on developing children. I just worry a lot about the situation. I’m still regaining my bearings over the whole situation. But, yes. I want my boy to know what a healthy dynamic looks like.

I’m doing the work, BG. I like your metaphor on keeping our side of the street clean. That’s all we can do. As always, thank you.


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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 12:00:28 PM »

Quote from:  JNChell
Are you wondering why you haven’t had those feelings and I have? I apologize.
Nope, not really.  Time has passed since I wrote that so I am fuzzy on my thought process there.  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Now, I am trying to relate to your desire to receive closure from outside sources.  Sources who have proven over time they are not going to give you what you seek.   What keeps you holding onto the desire for closure?  What do you need and how can we help you find a way to achieve closure for yourself?  Notwendy nails it here for me:  
Excerpt
One we apologize for something, it's our of our hands. Of course we should not continue to do the behavior we apologized for, but after that, the ball is their court.

Quote from:  JNChell
“Closure” is something that I’ve been clinging to. I read back through my posts. I know where that thought is seeded and why I think I need it so much in the present. I have to give it to myself. RA. If I really want it, that’s where it is.
Care to talk more about the specifics here?

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JNChell
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2019, 12:12:17 PM »

Sure. I’m going to talk about things that I’m not sure about, but they have to come into play somewhere. I’ll nutshell it as much as possible.

I was adopted. I was abused by those people. I never got closure from them. Specifically, the night that I asked for it. My serious relationships were too fast. All dysfunctional. I was eventually put in contact with both of my bio parents outside of my decision to wait. Bio dad was cool but died of cancer before I could meet him for a burger and a beer. Bio mom was too much up front and eventually presented with push/pull behavior. I cut her off.
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JNChell
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 12:18:55 PM »

Maybe closure isn’t the right word after reading what I wrote.
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2019, 01:38:17 PM »

Whatever it may be, could it be related to the idea of restitution or maybe just being heard?
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2019, 01:41:19 PM »

Restitution as an adult. Being heard as a child.
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2019, 01:43:56 PM »

Neither is possible. In a perfect world, that’s my answer.
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« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2019, 01:52:16 PM »

I agree neither is possible.   

People are who they are with their own self-awareness or lack there of right?

I am going to push you a bit on this.   I mean it in the best way and will support you no matter your answer here.  I think sometimes we crate and amplify our own pain.

Does it make sense to connect healing your wounds from the past to unrealistic expectations of others who have proven they can't give you what you seek?  What can you say to yourself that will help you change this?  Do you think this even applies to you?
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