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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Reaching my limit being supportive  (Read 515 times)
Bluemoon23

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« on: July 08, 2019, 10:45:06 AM »

 Paragraph header  (click to insert in post) Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I found your website while looking around to get myself some support as I deal with the stress of support and interactions with my child and feeling ashamed and angry about those interactions and support. I feel like I am trying so hard and doing the best I can and then something happens and it feels like "that's it! I can't do this anymore. I cannot do this".

I feel so alone and hurt and angry. I really don't like feeling mean and rude. I don't understand my child's choices sometimes. And I'm feeling hurt by their words and actions.

Once again I have asked my 23 year old to move out Sep 1 as I just am getting so tired of the opposition, the fights, what they say, what I say in response.  It's really hard. I feel like I do and take so much and then a limit is reached or a line crossed and then I just feel defeated and hopeless.

Just wanting someone to hear me.
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tamismom

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2019, 10:55:23 AM »

Hi, I'm brand new here today as well...so welcome from a fellow newbie. Believe me, I feel your pain. Although my daughter doesn't live with me I'm often at my wits end.

I have to believe that reaching out to others is a good first step to regaining our own sanity.

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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 12:13:35 PM »

Hello Bluemoon and welcome to the group. I am glad you reached out to us. The is exactly the right place to come for support. We get it. Your daughter's behavior is similar to my son's behavior. There really are limits to what any of us can take. I think you did the right thing by giving your 23 year old a move out date. You also did the right thing by coming here and asking for support. You can't change your child but you can get help for yourself. What else are you doing for self care?
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Faith
 
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 12:50:52 PM »

Hi and thank you both Tamismom and Faith for responding. Yes it's a journey and sometimes it's good and working and other times not so much. I did do some Family DBT support work years ago and my son moved out twice and back in twice and for the past year I have tried to do the best I can to help them out. And again I just have run out of steam so to speak. So I appreciate having a place so that I can do some reading and figure out some ways to navigate moving forward in the next few weeks and months.

I don't want to fight anymore. I don't want to argue anymore. I don't want to hear horrible things and name calling and most of all I don't want to get so angry I say things I regret and feel bad about.

That's the overwhelming part sometimes for me. Not only am I angry and hurt by what my bpdson says and does I also feel bad for getting so angry that I then say and do things I feel so bad about. It's just a crazy cycle of toxicity.
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 12:55:07 PM »

Hi Bluemoon23

Know you are not alone....this is a great place to feel heard and supported.  We are all in similar situations and get it!    As FaithHopeLove said
Excerpt
You can't change your child but you can get help for yourself.
 In the few months that I have been on this forum I have learned a lot, and I have learned that self care is so very important. I have a BPD16 yo Daughter at home - my stress levels have been through the roof and learning to care for myself has made a huge difference.  
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Swimmy55
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 01:03:14 PM »

I wanted to chime in to assure you we understand.  My son also sounds like yours.  Stay strong.  There is no shame in setting a boundary to have an adult child move out to restore your sanity/ finances/ resources. Be brave and stay the course.  Write here as often as you have to.  Here is a link that may help.
 https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries.
This may seem  counter intuitive, but you have to  help yourself first, and that includes feeling safe, peaceful in our home. 
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2019, 04:01:03 PM »

Thank you StressedOut and Swimmy! It is helping me and yes I have run dry of empathy, compassion, money and energy so it's time to do some self-care and to nurture myself. I have plans to take my son to a crisis walkin clinic on Wed so we can talk with a professional about the next few weeks and the limits I have to set - like call me a name again and wifi gone, moving out even if you don't have a place because you have not looked, threats of suicide, etc.

I just have come to feel so overwhelmed by everything today and it's hitting hard. Thank you for being here and I appreciate a space to vent and share.
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Swimmy55
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2019, 07:53:07 PM »

That is the spirit- the crisis walk in center sounds like a great plan! Please keep us posted.
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Only Human
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 11:37:51 PM »

Hello Bluemoon Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I can sense the anguish in your posts. I'm glad you've reached out for support and are taking steps to nurture yourself.

Excerpt
I don't want to fight anymore. I don't want to argue anymore. I don't want to hear horrible things and name calling and most of all I don't want to get so angry I say things I regret and feel bad about.

This brought tears to my eyes. I could have written it myself. Here's a hug for us both

Let us know how the visit to the crisis clinic works out.

~ OH
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tamismom

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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2019, 06:31:04 AM »

I could also have written those words. Exhausted. <3
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2019, 03:41:11 PM »

Thank you all for being here with me and either you get it or going through it yourself. I appreciate it.

Just an update. We went to the walk-in crisis counselling today finally and although my son did not want to go they did and actually said it went better than they thought.

My son didn't understand why we couldn't talk at home about things and I said I need help. I am exhausted and empty of anything right now. The counsellor helped us to focus on limiting the conflict for right now as short term and I can see that how I have to handle this is deal with conflict immediately, get them moved out short term and longer term letting them deal with the consequences of their actions and choices.

That was helpful to me. I also need to get myself support as my source of support is not available so she gave me a support group for parents (HOPE) and said I could return there as they have daily walk-in counselling and if it's related to parenting I can use their services.

So a very worthwhile visit as I work through how I'm going to get through the next few weeks and months and looking ahead.

My son has no money so we had to have very concrete talk about what can be done so they have some and what to do going forward. I will pay for chores, extra for big chores, and once they have their money we will keep separate after that.

My son was on welfare but just got approved for disability and while I believe it's good I'm also scared. Scared they won't try to figure out the block and work on getting a life of work so they are independent and self-sufficient.

Sigh......it's a journey. It's stressful. As I said to my son the goal is not to make you feel bad or worse the goal is to not have conflict so we don't have horrible fights that are toxic for us both.
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2019, 04:24:00 PM »

Blue,

Thanks for the update. A crisis center sounds very helpful-are you in the U.S. ? How awesome that you can pop into that support group as needed. Just having a fuzzy plan will help you feel less shaky.

With disability, one can still work, but one must be very diligent about submitting all paystubs. Benefits are reduced of course, but that’s ok. The government should never penalize the disabled for getting out there and trying again.


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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2019, 11:26:40 AM »

The centre is called Youthlink and they are close to my home and have daily walkin counseling. I think this is helpful for right now in helping me deal with all the emotions I am trying to process. I am frustrated, angry and sad that once again I am in the position of asking my son to leave. I was hopeful that this time round they would truly work on figuring out their life and start doing something but they have not. Their main focus is going out with their friends and drinking with just the minimal amount of work on their life goals or career.

I just have reached the point where I cannot keep being there to support this lifestyle. I work and have always worked and now i work at home with a son who sleeps until noon and then sits on the couch all day then goes out drinking with their friends. Right now he has no money so he cannot even do that. It is heart breaking and maddening to me living this way. I can't do it anymore.

My fear is that like the past they will not look for a place because they will focus all their rage on me being the horrible person who kicked them out when they are down.

Meanwhile they are not in active therapy, working, going to school or volunteering.

No responsibility for their choices. No responsibility for saying no to lots of resources and supports and doing the work to get a life.

If they were doing more I would support them but I feel they are not doing the best they can. If they put the same focus and energy they do to go out and drink into therapy, work, school or volunteering I would be all for that.

It's  so hard. To make these choices and be the bad guy. It's just hard.

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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2019, 11:33:41 AM »

One thing that has been challenging for me is figuring out the difference between what my son can't do and what he won't do. I have found that a lot of what I saw as laziness (won't do) was really symptoms of his illness (won't do)
How do you sort this out?
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Faith
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2019, 12:04:59 PM »

Faith I too struggle with that. It's a hard line like how I also have to figure out what is enabling and what is supporting. I don't really know to be honest. I do see that they can be successful whatever they put their mind or focus on but when their mind or focus is on things I don't like or don't find is helping them move forward that's where my frustration and anger come out.

Why are they not tired of being poor? Why can't they get a job? Why can't they go to school? Why can't they volunteer? Why don't they want more for themselves? Why can't they see the choices, possibilities and work on getting them? I don't understand. Is this mental illness? I have said yes in the past it is. But what am I doing to contribute to this? What can I do to help? I have tried love and I have tried tough love. I am now trying again to push them hard. It is tough trying to navigate this.

I have had struggles too but I have for the most part taken care of myself pushing through and working hard. I want my son to know that having a mental illness is not an excuse. It's something you accommodate and deal with and make a life with. Does that make sense?
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 12:44:40 PM »

Yes of course it makes sense. Particularly what you said about self care. In Alanon they teach us to accept what we cannot change. We don't have to like or approve of our BPD children's choices but I find it still helps my serenity to accept them
 That way I can focus on my own self care.
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2019, 01:09:46 PM »

I think Alnon might be good for me too. Thank you Faith. Working my way through all this and it feels so good to be here, be heard and to know I am not alone.
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2019, 03:19:16 PM »

Alanon is really great if you find
 the right group. Try several meetings with different groups if you can. The most valuable lesson my H and I learned is how to detach with love from our BPD substance abusing son. As you may have guessed I am into piling on layers of support, this group, church, friends, therapy, reading, Alanon etc. If it is out there and it helps I am into it. I love myself and want all the good things. You too?
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Faith
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LoveOnTheRocks
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2019, 02:51:05 PM »

Hi BlueMoon: 

Question.  Your son has until Sept. 1 to move.  If he is like so many others with BPD, it's very possible he will address this request of yours on August 31 at midnight. 
Are you legally able to force his hand if he chooses not to do anything about your request? In other words, if you are seriously serious, which you have to decide, then when the day comes that YOU have YOUR heart set on, and he's not ready, which equals able, to go anywhere, can you force him to move, or do you need to evict him now, so that regardless of his inaction, you are able to get what you feel as your needs, met?

How serious are you about ending the unhealthy things and requiring, for your own mental health, a serious change?  I am of the opinion, after years of working with these situations we all go through, that when forced, our loved ones can and do take some responsibility for their own self care.  Many of us caregivers are terrified to push the envelope, and as a result, we continue to accept what is unacceptable.  Again, this is my opinion, but I literally could not take any more of my daughter's sleeping till noon, getting up and moving to the sofa where she entertained herself with a phone I paid for and cable I paid for and ate food I paid for, all while I am in an electric wheelchair, eeking out a sparse living, because I don't collect disability, but work as much as I, a physically disabled person, can.  My resources are limited and her body is able.....

I can share this with anyone who is interested.  My child, since being evicted from my home this past time (2nd time I've done it), has been consistently reaching out to ensure her needs are met.  She has contacted many agencies (without my prompting) to see what resources are out there for her.  She has been able to secure an apartment for 30 days through one program, she is donating her blood for instant money, she has made all sorts of contacts to get services while she secures a job for herself......This is what I figured she would do when her back was against the wall.  After the pain of living with her exceeded the fear of how she could possibly be ok if I made her move out, and I pulled the trigger, I can report that when her back was against the wall, she came out fighting for herself.

My daughter is among the worst in degrees of illness with BPD, and I don't know how she will manage on her own (getting a job and keeping it are different, but I suspect again, that she will make sure she's ok, and will make a life happen for herself if I stop doing everything for her).  We are in the early phase of this thing, and I don't know what will happen, but I am stepping back and letting it happen.  When she called, I agreed with her that she is smart and capable, and thought it was wonderful that she was looking into resources.  I reaffirmed that I loved her and felt she was strong.  I asked her to keep me posted and we had a lovely phone call, no drama.....but the entire time, MY stomach hurt, and I knew I was listening to her tell me she was donating her blood (and passing out in a store where she went for food stuffs, because she has an eating disorder and likely couldn't afford the bloodloss.....).  The fact is, she will not get better, and I'll never know what she can do until I step back, stop offering to do for her, and we both see what she makes of her circumstances.  Without my anything, she is making things happen for herself. 

No, she is nowhere near living the life I would have preferred for her, but when my husband and I offered to help her focus on herself (agree to let the fellas go for a month or two and focus on herself only), and during that time we would look into colleges for her to attend, get herself a psychiatrist and work on finding a therapist, etc, she was unwilling to do it.  She immediately started seeing an "xbf" behind out backs and they planned a "great escape" (as if I were holding her hostage), and they snuck around seeing each other because that was what needed to be done, instead of giving me honesty and clear communication.  Fact is, if that's what they (she) wanted, she could have said so, but this disease doesn't work that way.

Eventually she has to work out how she is going to take care of herself. Now is a GREAT time for that.  We can keep doing the same things and continue to expect different results, but I've heard that is the definition of insanity.  So, we jumped off the side of the cliff, and now we are all finding out where we will all land with this.  If she needs to return, or needs my help, I reserve the right to assist her, and I will as long as she is doing all she can to assist herself.  For a pwBPD, that may not be the same as all I can, but we need to know what "all she can" looks like. 
or-
I can wake up six years from now, still in the same boat, still with no life preserves, 6 years older, and more upset, and more worn down.  She may NOT be able to hold down a job and take care of herself, and she may need disability.  Great.  When we learn that, I can help her get it, if she asks for my help.  OR, she may just need to get out of that pattern and routine of requiring nothing of herself....and us requiring nothing of her, either, "because the poor thing is sick and just can't help it."  We really need to KNOW. 
I know this.  I didn't want to get up this morning when the alarm clock went off, but I had to, because I have to take care of myself.  My daughter doesn't want to do much of anything, and is like so many other people on this forum's loved ones are.....on the sofa in front of tv when not in bed till noon......BUT, when their tummies need food, will they continue to stay on the sofa?  I need to know.

This is our perspective (some parts to it).  What we are doing may not work for the next person.....but it might.....so I will keep sharing how it goes with us....and keep reading and learning how it's going with all of you.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 03:02:11 PM by LoveOnTheRocks » Logged
PeaceMom
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2019, 03:34:28 PM »

What a thoughtful description of your current M.O., LOTR. This will be helpful to so many here, as at least 50% of those active here are asking, begging for examples of how, when, why to ask them to leave.  You have said you DD is possibly lower functioning BPD so this even gives me more hope. The survival instinct must be alive and well did inside our loved ones.

I’m encouraged-keep posting!
Peacemom
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2019, 04:14:28 PM »

You know, Peacemom, one thing I often thought of as I watched my baby sleep till noon, then move to the sofa was....an idle mind is the devil's playground.  She had all day and night to nurture her discontent with herself and with me (and others).  Nothing productive in that. 
I don't know how this is going to work out.  I know many "could" read my actions as abandonment, and certainly that word makes us all cringe, but I have not abandoned my child.  I'm here every day learning and reading and figuring and thinking.  I want to have a better situation with her, if not.....relationship (gasp).  I don't know.  I do know that the pain of not doing something got greater than the pain of doing it.  ...and I hope that if I talk with her, when I talk with her, in future, she isn't blaming me for her issues, but has moved on to someone else, so that maybe she and I have a different "scene" to work from....the here and now.....in the future, as it were.  Perhaps it will be remarkably better, because of the distance and time I will have had to work on my end and learn from all of your mistakes (as well as our past ones).  That's why I read and keep reading.  That, and it's a new way for me to have hope when all of my hope has been lost elsewise.  (is that even a word?).

I also get so much hope from some of the current threads going, such as the one Wendydarling has going right now.  That is a dream compared to our most recent nightmare.  If this guy with my daughter leaves, she will likely be right back here (or alternately, we can help her keep going from where she is...whatever SHE wants to try).  In any case, is it possible that once she sees how life works a little more, she won't have so much criticism for me trying to meet all of life's demands, and expectations that she try to meet some of them, too?

We are a work in process over here.

Another thing is we live far out in the country and she doesn't have access to much of life from our home.  She was very unhappy being "stuck" here....and she wrecked the car, got loads of tickets....so that it was cost prohibitive for us to get new wheels for her.  Now, she is in a place where there are trains and buses and such.
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2019, 07:57:45 PM »

LoveOTR-Im  also quite inspired by Wendy’s story. Now, her DD is a calm BPD. When I first read that term here I was shocked that there was such a thing. I immediately wished I could trade in my DD for a calm BPD! Ha. I think it would be easier for me to have not invalidated a calm type, than my cussing, raging, screaming, slamming DD. The grass is always greener!!

In no way are you abandoning your DD. Your story does not  indicate that at all. How can she ever know what she’s capable of if she doesn’t try?

I join you in your cautious optimism.

Blue,
I’ve looked into the legal eviction proceedings and it takes some jumping thru hoops, but it is doable. In my city, they cant forcibly remove an adult tenant who has been living in another’s home for a long period of time without the eviction. Unless it’s for criminal activity.
Are you formulating a plan?
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2019, 01:17:40 PM »

Oh my gosh thank you all for your wonderful words of support and for sharing your inspirational stories. I have kicked my son out twice before and yes you are right they wait until the night before to freak out and then say they have no where and what a horrible person I am for kicking them out. I had wanted their next time to be better and it still could.

So yes I am prepared to get them out on August 31 and my sister will be standing here with me I hope to do that. I don't want to call police (triggering for my son) but I will if I have to because I am done.

It gives me hope when I read how others are managing and trying their best. I too want better for myself and for my son. I want to let them go and find their way. They can if they put their mind to it and if they use the many, many, many resources available to them. They are sweet and kind and they can figure things out. And yes I may not like the choices or the life but I have to let them.

Today they begged for me to pay for a Lyft to a therapy appt and I said no. If you are too anxious to take public transit use your own money to take a cab. I can't offer any more free money.

I'm trying really hard to stay tough because I have to. My sanity is just so at the edge right now and I'm frustrated with their choices and their thinking. I need space from them. I need freedom from drama and yelling and bad choices. Honestly I cannot do this anymore. So thank you everyone. For being here and for supporting and sharing. I will keep you posted and please keep sharing. 
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2019, 03:37:34 PM »

Oops I used an incorrect term. It’s not a “pw Calm BPD” it is “Quiet BPD”  I still winder what that might look like up close and personal. I assume it a lot of internalizing and self harm. Possibly my DD does get a bit of her distress out when she rages, yells, screams, slams, etc.

Blue,   I may have missed some of your story, I’ve been in a brain fog due to a nutty few days. Do you have just one son who you are asking to move out? How old is he? Does he resist going to therapy? Does he work?  Just trying to understand your situation a bit better.

Hugs to you,
Peacemom
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Bluemoon23

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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2019, 04:10:46 PM »

@Peacemom yes 1 son who started with a new therapist today for PTSD work and yes I had a huge fight a few weeks ago and said that's it. I'm done you have to leave move September 1st.

I have kicked him out before. I took him back in with all the promises and manipulations. I'm done now though. It's been a very trying year of him saying he needed to work on his mental health. We have had some movement and some successes. He did apply and get disability benefits for 2 years and we/him had done multiple therapy meetings.

For me it's the lack of movement on doing something outside the house and having some kind of commitment - work, school, volunteering. When I asked them to take a class they argue they want to do it online. I work at home so they are with me almost 24/7. Except for the days they go out to drink with their friends. I'm tired of fighting about money, chores, therapy, work, school, volunteering, drinking. I can't do it anymore.
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« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2019, 10:36:44 AM »

Very good inspirational posts here!
 Bluemoon, hang tough .  I feel all your pain ( as other parents here do) about "what if my son sees this as the ultimate abandonment, etc etc?" .  They probably will and we have to find some peace with that. or even dare to say to ourselves "so what?".   They've already shouted their vitriol at us daily anyway.  In their minds we have abused and abandoned them anyway.  We can't fix how they think about us/ interpret us as it is all part of the illness.  It's like taking the knife away from the toddler and he screams, but we are protecting him and ourselves.  I echo everyone here to keep "doing you" and get support( 12 steps, therapy ,etc) - good your sister will be with you,and good for you for asking for help.
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« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2019, 11:01:08 AM »

By the way, very helpful posts Loveonthe rocks.
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