Boundary setting help needed to keep out of his marital conflicts

[Normlee]

My DS38 has BPD. I jump when my phone rings that it is him in a panic. I want to support him and reassure him... I don't want to be drug into an emotional spin cycle.
Has anyone set limits on certain types of conversations?  I don't even know how to explain to him in advance my new boundary. I'm still getting clear myself.
The issue is I do not want to be bullied into calling or texting his wife when he's freaking out about her leaving to go somewhere... or they're having a conflict and it scares him. I'm ashamed to say I've done it before. I love my daughter inlaw and dont want to be in the middle again. I've read that it is good to set up ground rules with the BPD ahead of time. I'm scared to and don't want to say something that will be the wrong approach
Thank you.
 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Those are some great questions, Normlee. I bet a lot of people are in similar situations. Our DS25 sometimes calls my H late at night. That is about to stop. My H is (finally) putting a boundary around that. DS is not married so we don't have that drama, but we did have our fair share of unhealthy triangles going when he and his ex-fiance lived with us so I can relate to that too. You said it yourself. You need out of the emotional spin cycle. I don't know if you have read this already, but here is a great article about boundaries. Setting Boundaries  Here is a brief description: "It is the practice of openly communicating, asserting, and defending personal values. The term "boundary" is a metaphor. "In bounds" means acceptable to you. "Out-of-bounds" means unacceptable. " Does this help?
hugs
Faith

[Normlee]

Yes it does. Thanks. Now it's trying to figure out how to communicate my boundary in a way that's heard by him. You can never count on how it will be received.
I appreciate your input

[Normlee]

Faith, I read the article you reccomended. It was very good. I own books on boundary setting. This article brought up new perspectives for me. I will be reading over several more times.

[FaithHopeLove]

 I am glad you found the article to be helpful. Do you want to rehearse what you might say to your son? We do that a lot here. Other members can give you feedback and help with the "script."

[Normlee]

Yes, I'd like that. I'll need to take some time and consider what I want to say.  When I'm ready, do I start a new thread and request feedback on a script?

[FaithHopeLove]

You don't have to start a new thread. Keeping it on this one gives people background. Just think of a few sentences you might want to say to your son about your personal boundaries and let other members give their input and feedback and suggestions. The hive mind here is pretty awesome.

[No-One]

My DS38 has BPD. I jump when my phone rings that it is him in a panic. I want to support him and reassure him... I don't want to be drug into an emotional spin cycle.
Has anyone set limits on certain types of conversations?  I don't even know how to explain to him in advance my new boundary. I'm still getting clear myself.
The issue is I do not want to be bullied into calling or texting his wife when he's freaking out about her leaving to go somewhere... or they're having a conflict and it scares him. I'm ashamed to say I've done it before. I love my daughter inlaw and dont want to be in the middle again. I've read that it is good to set up ground rules with the BPD ahead of time. I'm scared to and don't want to say something that will be the wrong approach
Thank you.

Hi Normlee:
I think you have the framework started for a SET response (Support, Empathy & Truth)
Support:  I want to support you and I love both you and your wife.
Empathy:  I know that sometimes, your emotions can feel overwhelming.
Truth:  I can't be the middle person for calling & texting your wife anymore.  You will have to learn to handle that on your own.  You will need to use some self-soothing skills.

PS:  Perhaps he needs some distress tolerance tools/coping skills for when he is overwhelmed and freaking out.

[FaithHopeLove]

great points, No One!

[Normlee]

Thank you No-One! That's so good. Yes, my son can definitely use more self soothing tools - That is another conversation I've been wondering how to start. He is seeing a psychologist who uses EMDR to address his PTSD.  He has a DBT program available on his insurance which I heard would be good for emotion regulation.

[PeaceMom]

Thanks for the simple, but powerful example, No One. I’m not sure why it’s so tough for me to come up w/SET. I might just use this exact script changing the “T” part to state my limit or boundary in each specific instance.

I’m learning so much here!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Normlee]

Ok, I would to communicate something like this to my son.(I have a hard time with the truth part)

Support: I'm glad you can come to me with your worries and concerns. I want to be there for you.

Empathy: I know sometimes your emotions
can get very overwhelming when a situation is very important like when you and your wife are having a conflict.

Truth: l love you both and I want to let you know I don't want to be in the middle of your conflicts like I have before by texting her or calling her when asked to. I know you both can work things out.  I just want to let you know ahead of time in case it ever comes up.

[No-One]

Ok, I would to communicate something like this to my son.(I have a hard time with the truth part)

Support: I'm glad you can come to me with your worries and concerns. I want to be there for you.

Empathy: I know sometimes your emotions
can get very overwhelming when a situation is very important like when you and your wife are having a conflict.

Truth: l love you both and I want to let you know I don't want to be in the middle of your conflicts like I have before by texting her or calling her when asked to. I know you both can work things out.  I just want to let you know ahead of time in case it ever comes up.

Normlee:
Good job!  I like your version!

DBT training should be good for him, as long as he is willing to learn.  In the meantime, there is a DBT website that could help him learn some coping skills and how to work on distress tolerance.  Why don't you check it out.  They have a section to coach people on "How to Improve the Moment" & "Self-Soothing".
www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/distress_tolerance.html

[Normlee]

Thanks so much. The support and help here is amazing.
I will definitely check out that site. I appreciate the referal.

[Panda39]

Hi Normalee,

I come at BPD from another angle, my partner has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) so this may or may not work in your situation, but I also wanted to say that you don't necessarily need to announce your boundary you can just set it and enforce it.

You decide not to get in the middle so you just don't.

You could also try putting the responsibility of his marriage back on him by asking questions that help him solve his own problem and by using validation.  Validation in terms of his feelings not necessarily his behavior.  We don't want to validate the invalid.

So he calls you and his wife did xyz and he's upset.  Can you find an emotion there that you can relate to?  Or you can see why he feels the way he does.  Validate it.  Something like son, I can see why this has you so upset, if I had my feelings hurt I would be upset too.  Then ask questions?  Why do you think your wife did xyz?  Do you think maybe she did it for another reason?  How do you think you can work it out? etc.  and if he answers well mom if you would call her... you just say something like this is between the two of you and I don't feel comfortable getting in the middle (enforce your boundary).  He may not like it, and he may get angry at you but stick with it.

I often share this simplified analogy...

We've all seen this at the grocery store...

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eatting good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want and if it gets them what they want once screaming in the grocery store will likely work again. What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store...the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

I hope I've shared somthing that helps,
Panda39

[Normlee]

Thank you Panda39,  yes what you wrote is very helpful. I will definitely remember the analogy. There are times when he may be in a calm enough state when he asks me to say something to his wife that I can have this dialogue with him. It's another option and I appreciate it very much.

[Normlee]

No-One
I did check out the DBT self help site. I plan to use tools there for myself as well. I'm NBPD but I feel a lot of anxiety or even panicky when things are intense. I believe I will benefit too. Thanks!