First Post, a long description of my marriage on the brink.

[sabas]

Hi all, this is my first post here, I apologize for how excruciatingly long it is.

I recently rediscovered (I’ll explain) that my wife is a BPD person. I’ve been reading “Walking on Eggshells…” and trying to figure out how to move forward.

We’ve been together for 6 years and the whole time I’ve been constantly, unpredictably criticized and looked at in disgust. We’ve consistently had huge, emotional fights filled with tears and vile insults followed by heartfelt apologies and reconnection, she’s threatened to leave countless times, she’s made me cry countless times when I hadn’t cried for years before meeting her, she’s NEEDED me, she’s HATED me, etc. All the things I’m sure you all are familiar with.

I had been under the impression this was because my wife was horribly abused as a child, and that that was what she, and we, needed to deal with and overcome and then these tumultuous events in our relationship would recede. We could be happy and I’d have my perfect mate, funny, smart, attractive, kind, ambitious, and sweet Eventually, at my incessant begging, she went to see a psychiatrist who diagnosed her with BPD. He did not put it into her chart because of the stigma. We discussed it and did some light research, she tried some therapy and then gave it up and for some reason I mostly forgot about it. That was two years ago. Since, not much has really changed. Foolishly I kept going down the path of life with her. We moved away from our friends and where we met, we bought a house, had a child and started a business. We did all these things so quickly partially because both she and I seemed to think that the next life milestone would be what she needed to feel fulfilled, or to distract her from her inner turmoil. Obviously, it never did, but surely the next one would!

Now, in the last 6 months, incredibly, she has seemingly improved. She’s more independent and filled with confidence and purpose as our business has been more successful than we thought. She is the one who works there day to day as I have another day job that helps pay the bills. As this has energized her she’s been frustrated with my lack of enthusiasm and excitement. This has led her to reflect that perhaps I’ve been sullen and withdrawn for years. She says she can’t tell if I like her, that she’s been buzzing around me planning trips, life events, activities and talking about our lives, while I respond with disinterest and look annoyed. I’ve left her feeling alone while right next to her. I’ve been closed off and impossible to read. She feels she doesn’t make me happy. I’ve told her countless times she does, but she says I shouldn’t have to tell her, that should know by my attitude, tone, and enthusiasm.

Now I began to believe this, I am introverted and tend to be less emotive, but I’ve also poured my heart and soul into supporting her and getting her “better”, I’ve given up hobbies and socializing to keep her company and prevent her from feeling abandoned, I’ve let insults and criticism roll off my back, I’ve asked my family to please understand her trauma and to treat her with kid gloves, I’ve supported her through quitting jobs, and depressive episodes. And then she convinced me that I have been dragging her down with my pessimistic, unenthusiastic attitude. And I still have a hard time not believing it. I’m far less communicative than she is, and have been scared to bring anything negative up, I also am not very outgoing, and suffer mild social anxiety, and I have a penchant for living in my head. So I don’t know what to think.

Anyway, through this final breakdown, where she says she doesn’t feel the same about me as “she’s dragged me through life”, I came to believe I was depressed. I didn’t know the root cause but I finally realized that I do feel depressed, that I had always dreamed of having a child and owning a business and I was having a hard time staying positive and engaged even after I’d gotten these things. So I went to a psychiatrist. I was prescribed wellbutrin. Then on my third visit my psychiatrist asked me how things in my life were going. My wife and I had recently separated to give each other a break, and for me to “work on myself” and get out of my depression. I told her (my psych) this, and very briefly explained the dynamic between my wife and me (like a 30 second long description). My psych immediately posited that my wife sounds like she has BPD. I remembered how my wife’s psych had diagnosed her with it. I told my psych, who then seemed concerned. I could tell she now believed I was depressed because of the past 6 years dealing with my wife. My psych has had experience with people who are married to people with BPD. I tried to defend my wife and take blame, as I always do around my wife or when talking about her with my family. But the psych was not convinced, although she didn’t say so, I could tell from her expression and questions she asked. She suggested I read Walking on Eggshells and to think about how I wanted to move forward with my wife.

That was two weeks ago. I’ve researched, read posts here, read Walking on Eggshells, and talked to my best friend at length. I’ve come to believe that it was living with, and forming my entire world around making a BPD person happy that has caused my depression. I’ve also come to realize that I feel a weight off my shoulders while we’ve been separated. I still very much miss her and want to stay married, but I feel like I need her to address her BPD, or at least acknowledge it and its effects on me. The problem is before this realization, I took all the blame, I said I was depressed, and that I had let her down. I said I had been sullen and detached, and that, though I didn’t know the exact reason, that my inner self was the single cause. My wife believed this totally. So now I feel I need to bring my recent thoughts and realizations up to her, but she’s going to obviously be angry and upset that I am suddenly doing this now, after weeks separated, and years depressed. I don’t know how to get her to listen. I also don’t know if I can stay if she doesn’t listen.

We had a knockdown drag out fight yesterday that started when she was describing a long-term goal in our business that is potentially on the horizon. She was light-heartedly describing how she was going to get us there, while smiling and looking cute, and I smiled and chuckled in response. She immediately took this as me laughing at and judging her and her goals and ideas, and shut down. Eventually we ended up on the phone blaming each other. Stupidly, while defending myself I brought up how her BPD and related issues have contributed to my depression. That obviously went poorly. I regret it greatly. She said she wants a divorce and doesn’t want to talk to me (predictably she found reasons to text me after saying she couldn’t talk to me).

Part of me hopes she walks away. Part of me desperately wants to try again. Part of me thinks maybe she’s right, that I’m the problem and she’s healthy now. Part of me just wants her back in my arms in bed. What I know I really want is for her to get treatment for BPD and to understand how her untreated BPD could make me scared and depressed and detached.

If you’ve made it this far, I really appreciate it, and I’m really just looking for advice. I’ve painted myself into a corner by having this realization so late, and after taking all the blame and admitting my depression is the major (and only) issue in our marriage. I don’t know how to move forward. Any thoughts would help and I thank you in advance. From the brief time I’ve been on this board I’ve seen the community is awesome and very understanding and supportive. I’m extremely relieved to have found it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

We're sorry for the tough place you're in, but are glad you've found us.  It's important to learn not to make things worse, and be patience about making things better.  It will take time.

Work on adding two tools to your toolbox ASAP.  Learn not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE), and take a look at this excellent page on how to validate and avoid being invalidating.  An important thing to learn is partial validation.  Don't agree with things that are untrue, but even if she's making untrue accusations, you use partial validation and can validate her feelings, which are always valid.  Does that make sense?

She has perceptual distortions that will make it very difficult for her to understand your perspective.  It's understandable for you to have a deep desire to get on the same page with her, and to talk things through with her until you both agree.  Exercise extreme caution.  In a non-BPD relationship this may work, but in a BPD relationship, it will just add fuel to the fire.

How old is your child?  Now that you are separated, how often to you see him or her?

RC

[sabas]

Thank you for the advice and information, RC. JADE-ing has been a huge problem for me. I’ve added fuel to a million fires. My issue now is when I do try to validate her while she’s accusing or admonishing me for something, I have difficulty not validating the accusation itself. This leads to her saying she can’t do this anymore because I’ve had the same problem (whatever the current accusation is) forever and I never change. How do i deal with that?

I’ve been living at my mother’s house, and we had planned to split time with our son 50:50. But our business is a restaurant and she has to work at it at night fairly often, so I’ve ended up with him more like 80:20, which I’m okay with, though it keeps me fairly isolated. I have no idea what she’d do in terms of custody if we actually divorce.

[JadedEmpath]

I don't have much advice to give, but did want you to know that I read your post, and that I can very much relate. I am in a similar situation, with a bpd SO of 8 years. I too am really realizing how catering my life around his happiness has taken a significant tole on my mental health & even who I am in some ways. I can relate to the nagging understanding that it would be so much easier to just let it go & move on--i too am an introvert. Lastly, i also relate to that strong irrational desire to just hold him and forget all the crap he puts me through. My heart goes out to you and your relationship, and i wish you the best.

One thing I have found helpful recently is that, when we get into an irrational argument, like what you were saying about your wife making accusations about your intentions or underlying communication, I have very firmly reminded him that i am his best friend, i am on his side, we are in this together, and that we both want the best possible outcome for us (etc), and then ask him to work with me rather than against me. Sometimes it seems to me that he goes quickly into defensive mode where I'm the enemy on problems that we should be tackling together. And, surprisingly to me, it has been more effective than other things I've tried.   

[sabas]

Hi Jaded, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I obviously wish neither of us could relate to the situation, but I can’t say it doesn’t feel comforting to hear someone else understands. I’ve felt very isolated through the last few years, hardly ever talking about it for fear of making my friends or family think my SO is an awful person.

Anyway, that advice is really good. I plan on using it ASAP. It’s so true that it feels like they’re always forgetting that we’re actually their biggest fans, advocates and supporters in the world.

Being introverted and lower on the excitable scale has lead to a vicious cycle. Losing yourself is a good description, it feels that in trying desperately to make her happy, and to avoid biting criticism and massive fights, I’ve lost a lot of joy and the feeling of being free to pursue my own desire, wants and fun. This leads to me being even quieter and more withdrawn around her which leads to her thinking I don’t like her, and then accusations that I’m the problem and that she’s “dragging” me through life, which finally exacerbates my lack of joy and freedom. And around and around we go. I need to get off the ride, but I’m not entirely sure how. I’m curious if you can relate to any of that too (mostly hoping you can’t).

I wish you the best too in finding ways to both be happy and make your relationship work.

[Radcliff]

My issue now is when I do try to validate her while she’s accusing or admonishing me for something, I have difficulty not validating the accusation itself. This leads to her saying she can’t do this anymore because I’ve had the same problem (whatever the current accusation is) forever and I never change. How do i deal with that?

Those are tough situations.  For sure, don't make it worse by JADEing.  You definitely can succeed on that goal, as it's entirely within your control.  The success of validation depends on how worked up she is, how calm you can be, and whether you can see any validation targets.  That can be tough as you point out.  Perhaps you can give us an example with some detail of what and how she was accusing you, and we can come up with some ideas of validation targets?  It'll help if you can think about what triggered her, if there were other things she might have been upset about at the time, what emotions she may have been feeling, etc.

That's good that you've got a lot of time with your son.  Take care of yourself so you can take good care of him.  A strong bond with him is important to both of you in this difficult time.  How old is he?

RC

[sabas]

Hey RC, the most common trigger/reason we end up fighting is my perceived tone, facial expressions or attitude. Just this Saturday she immediately shut down while describing her plans for our business, she was smiling and in a good mood and half fantasizing about impressing an investor, I was listening and smiling and chuckled, I thought it was optimistic and fun, and she was being cute. As soon as i did she interpreted it as "judging her, looking at her like she's stupid, and making her feel so dumb for  being excited about the business".

This is an extremely common occurrence. What I feel is a normal, pleasant interaction, is interpreted as either 100% negative or indifferent. She then says, because it happens so much, that she can't tell if I make her happy, I have no zest for life and she's essentially the engine of our lives while I ride along judging and unhappy.

Typically I JADE in response. But I also totally question reality. There's a kernel of truth like Walking on Eggshells describes. I tend to be introverted and more reserved. I've been told by past girlfriends that I can be hard to read. I also have a tendency to not want to give people the reaction they want if they're putting a lot of pressure on me to react in a certain way they desire. So usually after JADE-ing I apologize, take full blame and say that i'll work on it, to show how i feel inside on the outside so she won't wonder if she's making me happy. Inevitably it happens again and she's closer to her breaking point because I said I would change and I haven't. I also get more depressed and scared around her and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, when I'm less joyful around her it's obviously harder to feel excited about things that, if I felt free and happy, I would normally be excited about. This is the cycle that I've validated by acquiescing and taking full responsibility. And I'm unsure how to get out of it.

Even now I am questioning reality. My natural thought is that no one else in my life has these massive problems with my tone and expressions. And that many times when she blows up I honestly feel like I have a pleasant tone and/or am smiling at her. But she's convinced me I'm a "robot" who doesn't have normal human emotions and can't express how I feel like a "normal person".

[Stillhopeful4]

Hi Sabas,

((Hugs) to you.  You came to the right place!  Try and have a read through the lessons, they have helped me so much.  If you post about specific situations we can help too.

I want you to know when I read your story, it was like reading my life story for the past 10 years.  You will see that happen a lot around here and I find it helpful talking to people that know what you are going through and some who are going through the exact same, if not similar things.

Welcome!  Please be kind to yourself.

SH4

[Radcliff]

All of what you're describing is familiar.  It's really hard to feel like your tone and expressions are being microanalyzed, and that can lead to self consciousness, defensiveness, etc. that just makes things worse!

One thing that appears to be happening is that you're getting sucked into her black and white thinking.  Even in the heat of the moment, or especially in the heat of the moment, try to remember that there are no absolutes.  It can be true that she's hypersensitive and has totally unreasonable expectations about how you're going to regulate your tone and body language to feel good to her, while at the same time being true that you've got opportunities to validate her better, stay engaged, etc.  You're likely not going to be able to get her to go along with this "shades of gray" approach.  You will have to hold your grip on reality despite her distortions.

You said you sometimes don't want to give people the reaction they want.  It's natural to not want to feel forced into something, especially if the other person is pushing, or we feel insecure.  One tactic is to buy yourself a little space, with phrases like, "You may be right," or "That's something I should think about, thank you."  This avoids invalidating them with defensiveness, while also avoiding you admitting fault or caving in.  You can think on things and sometimes realize the validity of the other person's position and how to approach things with them.

I was sorry to hear about the example you gave of when she shut down when describing plans for the business.  It sounds like you were genuinely admiring her and sadly she misinterpreted it.  How did you react to her misinterpretation?

RC

[sabas]

Thanks, SH4, I really appreciate it. Hearing that my story is similar to others is comforting and it’s given me a bit of a confidence boost that in fact I’m not crazy. It also gives me some comfort that if she leaves it’s not all my fault. In the past when she’d threaten divorce or breaking up I would torture myself with regret and thoughts of what I could have done differently. This place has given me some confidence that I’m doing my best and sometimes a person with BPD is just not reachable. I appreciate your kind words!

RC, that’s really good advice. I need to work that into my response, and stay detached with an eye on the long term goal. And you’re so right, I do get caught up in the black and white thinking, I start to believe someone (always me) needs to take the blame to resolve the dispute.

As for our tiff, I stayed calm at first. She shut down and said bye in a curt, I’d say, mean, manner. I said ok, goodbye in a neutral tone and started walking out the door;  I was going to leave soon anyway as I had just dropped by our business to drop something off for her. She obviously wanted some type of emotional reaction out of me, and so when she saw I was actually going home she chased after me and lectured me  about how I’m judging her and making her feel stupid and how I shouldn’t have to verbally clarify that I was feeling good about her, rather she should be able to tell by my expression, tone, etc. I said I was sorry in a not-so-genuine tone and I just really wanted to leave. She goes on to say what she says a lot, “I’m just not sure we’re the right people for each other. I need someone more energetic and you need some dumb, cheerleader who doesn’t need anything from you.” I half heartedly argued but mostly tried to leave and eventually was able to.

An hour or so later she called to bait me into a fight and I stupidly took the bait. We yelled at each other for awhile and got nowhere and hung up after ~45 minutes. I just wanted to be alone and not have to interact anymore but of course later that night she texts me, asking me to come over to our house (which I’m not staying at) and calls me a wimp because I made an excuse about not wanting to leave my mother’s house. The next day she asks to come over to see our son and I say okay, she stays for 2 hours acting like everything is relatively normal. We talked about things later that day, as she left and then asked to go on a walk/date and I couldn’t say no. That went fine, she posited that she’s not sure we’re right for each other and we can try and make things work but she’s worried she’ll end up 50 and divorced and then be unwanted by other men. I internally rolled my eyes, but said I understand and that I wanted to try and make things work.

Sorry that was so long! So basically I’m back to wanting to bring up her BPD as an issue for me and our relationship, but being scared to do so and being worried about going back on my earlier apology and acceptance of all the blame because I realized I’ve been depressed. I do feel like truly understanding what BPD does to both of us is a revelation that I can’t ignore, and that I have to bring it up. I’m just  totally unsure how.

[Radcliff]

First off, don't bring up the BPD.  Full stop.  Enough of us have tried it before you, and failed spectacularly, that you needn't experience that trouble yourself.  She would almost certainly feel threatened and defensive.  It's reasonable, but unrealistic for you to expect your partner to have a "lay it all on the table" conversation about her contributions to the relationship issues like a "non" might.

There's some good news here.  If you are still getting baited into arguments (you're in good company with most other new arrivals here) then there's a lot you can do to reduce tensions in a reasonably short amount of time by focusing on your behavior and not waiting for her to change.

The beginnings of the situation you describe are more subtle.  When she said "goodbye" to you in a mean way, that was likely a repair attempt.  A "non" partner might have attempted to clarify, or told you how she felt, and explicitly invited a repair.  pwBPD often don't have the skills to do this.

Imagine if she'd said the curt goodbye, and you'd said to yourself, "Ouch, that feels nasty...hmm...but it's probably a sign she's in pain and needs something from me."  Then you soften your voice and facial expression, and turn to face her so she knows she has your full attention, while you say something like, "I'm sorry, I'm worried I've hurt your feelings.  Can you tell me a little bit about how you're feeling?"  If she's sitting, find a place to sit near her, facing her.  If she's standing, perhaps invite her to sit together.  In the event of a misunderstanding, you might say, "Wow, I can see how you'd be upset if you felt me being dismissive of you.  That would upset me, too.  When I chuckled, I was actually thinking of how much I admired you and was attracted to your enthusiasm.  It just bubbled out of me; I'm sorry if it came out as a mixed message."

A couple of caveats... First, don't be discouraged by the gap between the clean dialogue we suggest on the boards and how messy actual situations are.  Give it your best shot, and count it as a success if one thing you try goes better than the last time in any way.  Second, I'm not suggesting that you sit down and let her lay into you for half an hour.  Pivoting quickly to address her emotions in a supportive way can often save a situation, and if it does, you should feel pretty good about that accomplishment.  If despite you pivoting, being patient, not arguing, etc. you're taking heavy incoming fire, it may make sense to enact a boundary and step away for a bit.

RC

[sabas]

That makes a lot of sense. And I think I can do it. I will also avoid bringing the BPD up now. One thing is she obviously does know about her diagnosis and at the time we both found it as something of a relief and talked about it freely, I was fairly surprised. Unfortunately,  for one reason or another, after she stopped therapy we eventually let it drop from our minds. So my mentioning of it would be bringing up a dormant subject.

Any advice then on what to say when we make a plan for what we’ll do differently and how we’ll make our marriage work when we talk before I move back in? Like I said, I’ve painted myself into a corner by taking on all the blame and saying I would change and work on my depression and, ergo, my enthusiasm levels. I had thought maybe naked honesty is my only way out, I just don’t know what to say to her that actually feels substantial (like what you’ve suggested I can change) without referring to BPD or her faults...I really appreciate your help, RC. I probably would’ve made a huge mess bringing the BPD up.

[Radcliff]

Do you believe you're depressed? 

Do you believe that some of her observations about your contribution to the relationship have validity?  If so, where is she on the mark, or partially on the mark?

RC

[sabas]

I think I’m mildly depressed in my day-to-day life because I’ve failed at dealing with her and her BPD. I’m just worn out by her, and participating in some of my own interests without her, on my own terms gives me some anxiety because I’ve put so much pressure on myself to meet her needs and be perfect for what she wants.

Because of that, I do think she’s on the mark in that I’m not very joyful around her. I used to be light and jovial much more often. Eventually she would find reasons why that was either annoying because I wasn’t being serious or capable enough or there’d be a drama that her mind was on that affected, or was created by, her and so “how could I be joking around right now?”. Now she’s either semi-self-actualized or found more things to distract her, and she feels happier (on the surface). So now, I need to mirror her and I’m exhausted, and stifled.

And now we’re supposed to have a talk where we come up with a plan to make our marriage work and for me to move back in. The thing is, I thought I’d improve my depression in  stereotypical ways: the gym, sleep, eating better, pursuing my interests. And those things haven’t hurt but I’ve realized those aren’t the dark cloud that’s hanging over me. Dealing with her BPD in ineffectual ways  is. And I am not smart enough to know a way of talking about that (or anything close to it) in a legitimate way, and if I say I just need to workout and get out more, that’s just a lie that will build expectations. Thanks, RC. I don’t mean to sound so hopeless but I guess that’s how I’m feeling if I’m being honest with myself.

[Radcliff]

I can certainly understand how it would be discouraging to not be able to talk about the relationship and the impact it's having on you honestly.  Perhaps you could be honest and say that part of the reason you're feeling down is because there's trouble in the relationship?  That's just as honest and perhaps closer to the total truth than saying, "I'm depressed because of this BPD thing."

It's important though that you're calling out that dealing with her BPD in ineffectual ways has you down.  Not to say that you should feel like you can be a BPD superhero and fix everything if you learn enough.  You can only manage your part in things.  But you're learning, and can make big improvements there and take pride in them.

It sounds like you're worried that the "make a plan" discussion could degenerate into a "make a plan for sabas to be accountable for everything that's gone wrong" session?

RC

[sabas]

Yep, you’re right on. Because of how I’ve dealt with our issues in the past and when we separated, I know I’ve set it up for her to expect that most, if not all, of the work/changes are on my end. And that’s because that’s how I coped with trying to keep us together and her around, obviously not a healthy action on my part. I’ve usually taken all the blame for our fights and perceived incompatibility. Now I do feel hopeful because i was totally ineffectual in dealing with her and myself, I’m very encouraged that I at least have tools now. I would like to be able to say that I’m going to be dealing with our relationship in what I think are healthier ways to her, but at this point she’s looking for basically actions I’ll be taking to improve myself. But I also feel like I’m making excuses and I need to tell her I think I can handle our relationship better and that I’ve been down because of our struggles over the years. I’m just not very confident, I guess.

[MeAgain]

While I do not have any advice to give, I just want to say that your post and this thread were very thoughtful. Your experience describes much of my own. I have empathy you.

[Radcliff]

MeAgain makes an important point.  It's remarkable how many experiences our members have in common.  Simply knowing that we're not the only ones dealing with such mind-bending situations can be a huge relief.

Remember this very fundamental point -- we can invite others to behave in a healthy way, but we cannot make them do so.  If we expect them to behave healthily and they don't, our consternation can really get in the way of being effective.  Go into this conversation with her with a firm belief in the truth that both people in a relationship need to work together to solve the problems; it's not all you.  You can invite her to take on her part in the changes, but be prepared for her not to accept the invitation.  If she doesn't, then take responsibility for your part and politely decline her invitation to take the blame for everything.

Using language that you believe is truthful to the situation, can you write out a list of the things you could take responsibility for, with a sentence or so for each item?  We can help you craft it so you can speak with integrity without throwing yourself under the bus.

RC

[sabas]

I agree, finding these common experiences and feelings has been a huge boost to me. It's also made me a bit more comfortable with the fear/thought that she may decide to leave and it's not all my fault. I think a lot of what has tortured me in the past, before knowing about BPD and other nons' experiences, was the regret and the thought that it was all my fault and I should've been able to do more.

In terms of what to say to my wife. We had a brief conversation about what could change when I move back in, which is imminent as there's been extra drama with my mother who i am staying with. I tried not to take all the responsibility, or to say sorry, which I do far too much. I said that i needed to be better about expressing what i need in the relationship and to be more confident about it. I took responsibility for not being as communicative as I should, and for basically not setting boundaries (not in those words). She agreed. But she also seems to still want me to be "extra nice" because she feels like I really let her down by getting depressed and not admitting it, detaching, and not showing much joy or excitement for years. I understand that but obviously I struggle not to be resentful because I think her BPD-influenced actions brought on my detachment and depression, but I don't want to say that.

As for what I can take responsibility for, other than communicating more clearly and firmly about what i want and need, I'm not totally sure. I think I could take responsibility for a lack of excitement and joy, but I (and she) am worried that that's going to take time to come back especially if there's still going to be a lot of neediness from her, and relearning behavior from me. My only solution for that is to communicate my needs better, which i hope will lead to me being happier and not so tied to her ups and downs and whims. But that's a long process. I guess i'm kind of at a loss beyond that. And during our conversation, she read it as that I'm going to "play more basketball, see my friends more and just be more distant/away from her" and "just as sullen when i'm with her" i.e. not giving her more attention and joy which she feels like I now owe her. I explained that hopefully I'd be happier in general and therefore happier around her, but she seems very skeptical. She says she sees no difference in my tone and excitement. She's basically only looking at changes from me. I'm sorry, I feel like I'm just bringing up more problems and obstacles without many solutions. I guess I feel a little hopeless, and that the only thing I can do is try to institute the lessons learned here and in books, but the results from that could take a long time, which is all right with me, but I don't think i'll be happier and less scared/resentful until I get them down and comfortable with them. I'm not sure she'll want to stick around that long, and if she does, I think she'll probably still be hurt by my tone and be looking to fight with me. It feels like a very difficult cycle to break because I've waited so long to actually examine it.

[Radcliff]

You're getting a handle on what need to happen.  It took years to get where you are, so it will take time for things to improve.  That doesn't mean that you can't try to achieve some perceptible improvements, soon, though.  She worries that you won't be there for her, either emotionally when you're flat, or physically, when you're away doing your own activities.  You need to show her that you can be actively engaged when you're with her, and come back rejuvenated with some new energy to share with her when you're returning from your own activities.

What are some things that the two of you enjoy doing together?  Have you been doing any "dating" while you've been separated?

RC

[sabas]

You're right, RC. I need to show her I can be there emotionally and that i won't be detached anymore. My problem is that that pressure can be very stifling to me for some reason and my puzzling reaction is to do the opposite of what she wants. I've noticed I can be much more expressive and joyful around friends because they don't expect any particular mood or reaction from me, and they definitely aren't waiting for a single neutral expression or flat tone to use as evidence that I don't like them. I obviously need to work on that. I also find it difficult to do immediately, I've been trying but when I do slip up (I did today when I answered her phone call this morning while waking up and being very flat) she reacts with accusations and fear. I end up scared and, I think, probably resentful without even realizing it because in the id part of my brain I think I'm annoyed that she's been so unpredictable and honestly, at times frightening, and no after years she wants me to be happy and joyful. I feel a little like a beaten puppy. She also says she needs this immediately, because she says she realizes I've been this way for so long that she's "wasted" her life and doesn't want to anymore.

But when I tell you this I'm wary that they are just excuses and if I want to be in this relationship that I do need to be capable of being more than a zombie (although I also feel like she doesn't really notice when I am happy and pleasant). You're suggestion of something fun is a good idea, something where the pressure is less. We haven't really been dating while separated, though we've seen each other a lot, it's been more trading off the baby, bringing each other food, etc.

[1315]

I offer no advice because I’m going through this hell right now. My wife who has not been diagnosed BPD left me nearly 4 weeks ago without warning. I can totally relate to the things you said particularly about your problems as a coupe being your fault. My wife told me repeatedly I was incapable of being in a connected relationship with her. She has told me that so much I started believing it was all about me being closed off. I’m learning the opposite is true. She is incapable of it. She is highly sensitive to tone of voice, facial expression, etc. But the very things she accuses me of I now see are in her. The only reason I see it now is a month away from her plus talking to a therapist and friends and family that know her. I too let other relationships and interests suffer because I needed to be around her to take care of her. She has huge abandonment issues too. Now that she has left, I realized that I had neglected my own support system because I thought she was my support system. Anyways, it does help to know I am not the only one who has experienced this and I’mnotcompetely nuts. Stay strong...

[Radcliff]

Everything you're saying makes sense.  Both things can be true -- that you need to make changes but that those changes are hard to make and will take time.  Geeky side note -- "dialectical" means a dialogue that resolves two apparently opposed ways of looking at something, resulting in a new understanding.  Both things can be true.  In Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, the main treatment for BPD, the two opposing thoughts are first, acceptance of one's self as one is today, and second, acknowledging the need for change.  One does not have to feel shame because change is necessary.

It's going to be a constant challenge to do your growth because she's not going to give you the validation you need.  You're going to have to get that from us, a therapist, yourself (self-validation is a "thing" that can be learned), and perhaps others.  It totally makes sense that you feel like doing the opposite when you feel she's making a demand.  All of us want self-determination.  It seems counterintuitive, but if someone gives us the option of saying "no," it makes it easier to say "yes!"  Again, you can't count on her to give you optimum conditions.  Try to let any unreasonable demands slide off your back.  Tell yourself that you're making these changes for you, because you think they are the best thing to do.  That can actually be true, because while you are going to be doing the tricky job of trying to listen to her and not shut her out, so you can be influenced by her reasonable needs in healthy ways, you are going to be making the decisions about how to prioritize your growth.  You're not jumping to please every demand she makes.  Can you see how this puts control in your hands?

RC