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Author Topic: I'm at my wit's end with cycling from emotion to emotion.- Part 2  (Read 516 times)
Plucky1980
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« on: August 11, 2019, 10:24:28 PM »

*mod note: this thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338654.0

I really hope I'm making sense and I'm not rambling on incoherently there. It's hard to structure my thoughts.
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 01:28:15 AM »

Your words are crystal clear Plucky and I feel I understand where you are coming from. There is little here that I have not felt myself at some point or at certain points.

I hear you say everything was so idyllic for the first 4 or 5 months, at least as you said you did not notice much disorder.

It has helped me to think of the analogy of recruiting someone for a job, they can say almost anything during interview - wear a nice suit, talk the talk, maybe prior to that a CV that could be "creatively" put together. Following that, depending on the type of job, responsibility, number of hours, I think it is reasonable that quite a few months could go on before you really get to find out what you have got: in terms of reliability, competence, trustworthy etc

I really do believe you can trust another woman Plucky, I see little reason not to. There is no reason that you will meet another troubled woman but the experience you have gained is really useful to help out. I always suggest to see it as an advantage and every cloud has its silver lining form of positive thinking. This might be depressive upsetting stuff but it does not have to be a torture. Anything what they have done does not have to be magnified, I have been guilty of that, but learned in time not only to stop - but learned to see the positives and use them.

When you say that you no longer served a purpose you were discarded. Id ask a different question. In order to be discarded involves having to first being attached. Do you really believe, and I dont mean from your side, but hers, that she ever truly "attached" in the first place? Her side.

Forget maybe the words or the seducing via sex, or the charade of good company via mirroring. But im talking about making herself emotionally vulnerable and connecting on that basis. True genuine emotional intimacy is only possible when we are ourselves and not a false self to our partners.

Add into the mix some with BPD have distortions of identity, it just adds more complexity to emotional intimacy with another. They end up taking on board our identity, it feels like dating a clone of ourselves, wondering how "we" get on so great and thinking it must be because they are "the one". If any of this is triggering, this was evident in my situation she had identity issues the mirroring was strong.

Lastly do not take her opinions on how confident you are to heart or accurate. The reason you were discarded has more to do with being confident, enough to make her question how easy it would be to control that you would not be the one discarding her. Perhaps you were getting to the point of knowing the real her as the months went on rather than the put on persona. The gradual abrasion of the mask. It only took a cheap bottle of vodka as a dis inhibitor, not a psychiatry degree, for me to find out what she was all about. She was drunk, I was sober, but ended up reeling the most from what I saw.

Getting over ptsd is not the same but can feel the same as "pining" for the one who caused the stress, the drama, the shock and delivered the payload.

It does get better Plucky, also to thank you it has helped to talk with you. Try to focus on life outside of this and not let it consume your day. The r/s itself is in todays real terms - history.
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 12:55:29 PM »

Your words are crystal clear Plucky and I feel I understand where you are coming from. There is little here that I have not felt myself at some point or at certain points.

I hear you say everything was so idyllic for the first 4 or 5 months, at least as you said you did not notice much disorder.

It has helped me to think of the analogy of recruiting someone for a job, they can say almost anything during interview - wear a nice suit, talk the talk, maybe prior to that a CV that could be "creatively" put together. Following that, depending on the type of job, responsibility, number of hours, I think it is reasonable that quite a few months could go on before you really get to find out what you have got: in terms of reliability, competence, trustworthy etc

I really do believe you can trust another woman Plucky, I see little reason not to. There is no reason that you will meet another troubled woman but the experience you have gained is really useful to help out. I always suggest to see it as an advantage and every cloud has its silver lining form of positive thinking. This might be depressive upsetting stuff but it does not have to be a torture. Anything what they have done does not have to be magnified, I have been guilty of that, but learned in time not only to stop - but learned to see the positives and use them.

When you say that you no longer served a purpose you were discarded. Id ask a different question. In order to be discarded involves having to first being attached. Do you really believe, and I dont mean from your side, but hers, that she ever truly "attached" in the first place? Her side.

Forget maybe the words or the seducing via sex, or the charade of good company via mirroring. But im talking about making herself emotionally vulnerable and connecting on that basis. True genuine emotional intimacy is only possible when we are ourselves and not a false self to our partners.

Add into the mix some with BPD have distortions of identity, it just adds more complexity to emotional intimacy with another. They end up taking on board our identity, it feels like dating a clone of ourselves, wondering how "we" get on so great and thinking it must be because they are "the one". If any of this is triggering, this was evident in my situation she had identity issues the mirroring was strong.

Lastly do not take her opinions on how confident you are to heart or accurate. The reason you were discarded has more to do with being confident, enough to make her question how easy it would be to control that you would not be the one discarding her. Perhaps you were getting to the point of knowing the real her as the months went on rather than the put on persona. The gradual abrasion of the mask. It only took a cheap bottle of vodka as a dis inhibitor, not a psychiatry degree, for me to find out what she was all about. She was drunk, I was sober, but ended up reeling the most from what I saw.

Getting over ptsd is not the same but can feel the same as "pining" for the one who caused the stress, the drama, the shock and delivered the payload.

It does get better Plucky, also to thank you it has helped to talk with you. Try to focus on life outside of this and not let it consume your day. The r/s itself is in todays real terms - history.

Thanks mate. I appreciate the kind words.

Hopefully it will get better. It's been 7 months now.

And I do want to meet someone else eventually. But I'm not ready yet. It wouldn't be fair on me, or her at this point. I'm still feeling insecure and lacking in confidence.

But I blame her for that, absolutely.
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2019, 06:19:20 PM »

Thanks mate. I appreciate the kind words.

Hopefully it will get better. It's been 7 months now.

7 months? Id try not to be too hard on yourself here. Slow and steady wins the race Plucky matey. I wanted this over and "get on with life", who does not? It is good to have that goal but to focus on the clock can just work against us, disappoint us. Feel good about what you have achieved so far, it is progress, sometimes hard to notice how it accumulates over time.

the waves you talk about, I knew them, hope it helps to report that they do became less and less frequent.

Do you manage to accept them for what they are, get through them, or try to block them out? It might sound wrong to tell someone this when I know just how horrible it is to feel anger, it is known as part of the process, here goes - it is "good" and healthy even how there is no way you might agree with that right now. It goes away as it gets resolved and experienced, yet we still have control over how to direct and manage it. I think I learned how to, even anger can be used in a positive way. Sometimes it felt overwhelming and I just let it - knowing it will pass eventually. It always eventually passes doesnt it? Transient emotions.
And I do want to meet someone else eventually. But I'm not ready yet. It wouldn't be fair on me, or her at this point. I'm still feeling insecure and lacking in confidence.
will know from within when it is time to try again, the confidence comes back it is just a temporary knock down.

Hang in there sounds like you are doing all the right things.
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2019, 10:41:07 PM »

Excerpt
How did you get yourself to that point? If you don't mind me asking.

it might sound cliche Plucky, but by working the stages of Detachment in the Lessons. theyre a great framework for recovery.

i let myself feel whatever i felt without judgment or shaming myself; that made things a lot easier. i leaned hard on my support system. i cried a lot, and let loose. i tried to do the healthy stuff, like hanging out with friends, eating well, getting into old hobbies, as well as finding new ones, journaling, the whole nine yards.

when i started to feel better, i switched my focus a bit. i reexamined the trajectory of the relationship and its ending. i asked for perspective. people saw some things a bit differently than i had. some of it hurt at the time to see. i started to realize to really detach, some pain was going to be involved, but freedom was on the other side.

and then i started to look at myself, and who i was in the relationship, and the lessons i wanted to take into new relationships. im not the same guy today. i better understand others. i better understand myself. im more resilient.

Excerpt
Can I ask for an informed opinion. Does it get easier?

yes. but it takes work. it takes pushing yourself. it takes trusting in the process.

if you do absolutely nothing, time will dull the pain. but it wont heal the wounds. youll just bring those into the next relationship.
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 10:54:47 PM »

7 months? Id try not to be too hard on yourself here. Slow and steady wins the race Plucky matey. I wanted this over and "get on with life", who does not? It is good to have that goal but to focus on the clock can just work against us, disappoint us. Feel good about what you have achieved so far, it is progress, sometimes hard to notice how it accumulates over time.

the waves you talk about, I knew them, hope it helps to report that they do became less and less frequent.

Do you manage to accept them for what they are, get through them, or try to block them out? It might sound wrong to tell someone this when I know just how horrible it is to feel anger, it is known as part of the process, here goes - it is "good" and healthy even how there is no way you might agree with that right now. It goes away as it gets resolved and experienced, yet we still have control over how to direct and manage it. I think I learned how to, even anger can be used in a positive way. Sometimes it felt overwhelming and I just let it - knowing it will pass eventually. It always eventually passes doesnt it? Transient emotions.will know from within when it is time to try again, the confidence comes back it is just a temporary knock down.

Hang in there sounds like you are doing all the right things.

I'm trying to hang in there mate. Just really wondering when it will all end and I feel like myself again. I've felt like a shadow of myself since it happened. Like I put so much of myself into it and got nothing but pain and misery out of it. It's a cliché maybe but it's like I've lost part of myself.
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 11:53:15 PM »

One thing I struggle to comprehend is, why do their actions and words ALWAYS make you feel like it's your fault, that you're to blame?

I've told my story to dozens of people. One being a psychotherapist with extensive BPD and narcissistic treatment experience. They all said virtually identical things. Not my fault. It's her. You didn't do anything wrong.

And you still can't help but blame yourself.
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 04:54:20 PM »

hey plucky

for me the issue is, if it was "abuse" why did I stick around? why did I not leave, or deal with it better.

It is because there is more than just this dimension to the relationship, it cant be boiled down to "abuser-abused" or "disordered and non", the big picture here is, I loved that side of her which was absent of the disorder, I did not understand at all even what the disorder was, or how much it played a part. The majority of the relationship even though yes, a lot of appeasement on my part, a lot of pandering to her needs, the hell part was 5%, but still, hell it was and the emotional abuse and trauma is profound in there. That is why I ended up here.

When it comes to blame, id ask "blame with regards to what exactly?" dig deeper. For me, self blame for tolerating it - Id say it just indicates naivety on my part as much as false hope that these were issues that could be ironed out of the r/s - I had no idea of the gravity of her issues. I still do not, even 1.5 years afterwards.

In terms of blame from her, mostly it came in the form not directly. There was nothing much she could blame, but the unreasonable aggression I believe was a form of displacement rage. I became at those moments a scapegoat for deeper issues - her troubled past of which I only learned fragments of. If she was in a depressed state - reached out - and I was unavaiable to drop everything at that specific moment, perhaps she blamed me for this, it was never spoken as such, but it always correlated with some sort of passive-aggressive punishment.

The behaviours from her were rarely up-front, in my face and is what made the whole thing such a puzzle and seemingly bizarre. There was a strange correlation of the nicer I was to her, the more I felt hostility. When I would have enough and split up, there would be a short space of time before the relationship would "reboot" and she was that loving person again. It is hard to accept blame when you are loved one moment, reviled the next - my own attitude was "if I am so bad, why are you with me"?

I stick to this, this is who I am, how I think - although becoming "lost" like you said, I did start to, feel "engulfed" is the term I came across and can relate a bit too. I got over time some strange irrational thoughts that implanted in, one of them being that I wouldnt know how id cope without her, and also how she could cope without me. Feelings arent facts as it has been proven since, but feelings still had this grip over me to this day I still can not figure out why I had felt that way, considering throughout my life I have been otherwise not a needy person, neither the rescue type. So this was all new unchartered water in my life.

I know you are going through this quest of finding out more, I just want to conclude by stating that where I am now is a healthy state of, not having "once being lost but now I am found" - the bit in between is - change. For all that was upsetting, difficult, I do feel that change was necessary - this experience just catalysed the rate of change into high-gear. Naivety to BPD is where I self forgive and absolve myself of self blame - it would have been different if I had known better prior. Perhaps it might help somewhat to ask yourself the same thing, as much as how much in "todays" terms does it help to engage in a blame exercise anyway?

It is a skilled professional who has told you this, not some random person Plucky. It is over now Plucky, be kind to yourself, let yourself heal and these emotions are distressing memories to mop up, learn from, grow from. It is a transient "beat down" - but you are already picked yourself up.....
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 05:04:56 PM »

One thing I struggle to comprehend is, why do their actions and words ALWAYS make you feel like it's your fault, that you're to blame?

I've told my story to dozens of people. One being a psychotherapist with extensive BPD and narcissistic treatment experience. They all said virtually identical things. Not my fault. It's her. You didn't do anything wrong.

And you still can't help but blame yourself.

Because they are unable to stand their own emotional experience -- so they split off what they're feeling about themselves, and project them on to you. My ex used to ask my why I was being a dick to her, when she was the one attacking, criticizing and pushing me away. It was unreal, and only after a year of therapy was I able to come to understand my attachment issues that put me at risk for accepting those kinds of projections in a relationship.

I think you may suffer from attachment issues, most likely from early childhood. You blame yourself, you accept their projections onto you, when they're the ones attacking, criticizing and devaluing you.

To accept that behavior and stay with them often means you have the belief that you have to give up who you are in order to maintain attachment. That you are 'wrong' or 'bad' as a person. Been there.

It is not your fault. The behaviors you experienced from her originate within her, but she has her own developmental issues to the extent that emotions she feels inside she believes are created from others outside -- it's a short step to 'find' a reason in something you said or did that 'created' her emotions. Was not you. You're just the foil.

It is not her fault either, but she's responsible for resolving her issues. There really is little you can do to change her from the outside, it doesn't work that way.

Again, figure out what your attachment issues are, seek a good therapist. Because my sense is you have them, given your reaction to her -- it's like you're trying to extract attention and attachment from her, probably what she was giving you in the first 2-3 months of the relationship. You can't fix that. You need to go work on your self now, or the pattern will repeat. You can do it.

Because right now, it's not that you can or can't trust another woman, but that, if I'm right about you experiencing your own attachment issues, you will be attracted to and pick women who will repeat this dynamic with you.
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 12:32:13 AM »

Because they are unable to stand their own emotional experience -- so they split off what they're feeling about themselves, and project them on to you. My ex used to ask my why I was being a dick to her, when she was the one attacking, criticizing and pushing me away. It was unreal, and only after a year of therapy was I able to come to understand my attachment issues that put me at risk for accepting those kinds of projections in a relationship.

I think you may suffer from attachment issues, most likely from early childhood. You blame yourself, you accept their projections onto you, when they're the ones attacking, criticizing and devaluing you.

To accept that behavior and stay with them often means you have the belief that you have to give up who you are in order to maintain attachment. That you are 'wrong' or 'bad' as a person. Been there.

It is not your fault. The behaviors you experienced from her originate within her, but she has her own developmental issues to the extent that emotions she feels inside she believes are created from others outside -- it's a short step to 'find' a reason in something you said or did that 'created' her emotions. Was not you. You're just the foil.

It is not her fault either, but she's responsible for resolving her issues. There really is little you can do to change her from the outside, it doesn't work that way.

Again, figure out what your attachment issues are, seek a good therapist. Because my sense is you have them, given your reaction to her -- it's like you're trying to extract attention and attachment from her, probably what she was giving you in the first 2-3 months of the relationship. You can't fix that. You need to go work on your self now, or the pattern will repeat. You can do it.

Because right now, it's not that you can or can't trust another woman, but that, if I'm right about you experiencing your own attachment issues, you will be attracted to and pick women who will repeat this dynamic with you.


I agree with what you've said here mate. Except that I'm not trying to get attention/attachment from her. I haven't seen or spoken a word to her since January. I am dealing with and struggling with my own internal demons and the rationalisation of the 'relationship' in my own mind.

But you're right, I did feel exactly like you said. That I accepted her erratic and unpredictable behaviour, that I needed to change to be with her, because of the criticism and subtle and not so subtle digs regarding me and my personality. I no longer think this way. I'm a decent person and do not need or want to change who I am.

And I absolutely have no intention of getting into a relationship with anyone. Not for a long time.
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2019, 09:46:27 PM »

I wake up occasionally in the middle of the night. Like for instance now, it's 3.42am and I've been awake for about half an hour. When I can't sleep, my mind seems to drift to her. And I start picturing her in my mind's eye. The thoughts go to the good first part of the relationship then I think about about all the heartache, fear, pain and anxiety she caused me. Eventually I get off to sleep. It's a nightmare. Especially as I think in my mind that she has probably never looked back at any of the relationship, I believe I was nothing to her.

A few people say to me 'what does it matter whether you meant anything to her or not?' Well obviously it shouldn't matter but it does. It makes the relationship feel like a joke, from my point of view and that I wasted a whole year of my life on it and now wasted 8 months of my live in various stages of stress, anger, grief and anxiety about it.
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2019, 11:20:43 PM »

I feel decent sometimes, and then other times, I think I'm going mad. Seeing her face in my thoughts. Like, why am I allowing this person, so obviously not worth my time, to take up space in my mind?
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 05:04:28 AM »

Hi Plucky

Do you think there could be any "non-her" stuff making you wake at these times?

I used to get up and go out for half an hours walk in the neighbourhood.
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 06:14:35 AM »

Hi Plucky

Do you think there could be any "non-her" stuff making you wake at these times?

I used to get up and go out for half an hours walk in the neighbourhood.

Probably mate. Sometimes I can't sleep, no particular reason.

My mind just wanders to her sometimes.

I'm okay now, it's just in waves. Hard to describe.
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2019, 06:03:29 PM »

Probably mate. Sometimes I can't sleep, no particular reason.

My mind just wanders to her sometimes.

I'm okay now, it's just in waves. Hard to describe.

Make sure to get recommended amount of vitamin B6. Not only against insomnia but against anxiety and balances the mood.
Bath before bed (keep it at 37 to 38 degrees) the longer you stay in the more sedative it is.
Keep active during the day, no lounging around sedentary but no high exertion exercise either.
Avoid alcohol, caffeine, other stimulants. Caffeine was the worst for me, I cant cut it out completely but if I make sure not to after 12 lunch time my sleep is fine.
Stuff like herbal teas work for me too, but chamomile doesnt work to help sleep rather than calming anxiety. Lemon balm tea does.
I try also to restrict my posting here to the morning rather than late at night which I used to do. It is a double whammy against sleep, first the emotional nature of the posts second the effect of the monitor artificial light.
If these are anxiety attacks rather than ruminations, try an anti anxiety med. I get these waves, a small dose and its over, it literally changes my day to not thinking of her at all. Otherwise it can go on for 2 or 3 days.
when I asked about non-her stuff, for me I found myself too focused on her as the major root cause. The issue here was the lack of being able to do anything more about it - I went NC, but the non-her stuff is there all the same, its just that she was the straw that would break the camel's back. Tackling these non-her stresses was easier and helped.

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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2019, 10:14:02 PM »

Hello Plucky. Wow I can really relate to what you wrote. First about the B6, I took that for a couple months and it helped tremendously as my forehead actually felt like it was bleeding inside as my brain was so hurt and confused. Unfortunately it made my skin break out in acne which made me more depressed so I had to manage with just Tylenol.

You waking up in the middle of the night and desperately wanting that first 3 months back is exactly how I felt and still do most days. I'm 8 months separated and still feel like it happened just yesterday. I'm cursed in this case with an exceptional memory. This has helped me through school and work all my life but it is like death now to see her so vividly every day. I remember everything.

I have done the same mental exercises saying the woman I loved was a mirror of me and the woman who devalued me and made me feel like an inconvenience and incapable of making her happy is the real her. The woman who lies constantly, calls me a stalker and puts on a show about shaking in fear when I finally saw her in person a couple times is not the same woman I love. It's heartbreaking, confusing and painful. The thought of her with another man love bombing him while I'm left in the trash and erased from her memories makes me want to throw up sometimes but I have to push the thought away and realize that she is just putting on another act with whoever, if she is even dating. I have no idea. I know she is on the internet and hate that I was not worth a 10 minute conversation before she looked for someone else. I wake up every morning and spend an hour in bed telling myself why she is horrible and I don't want her, but everyday is still a roller coaster. I understand exactly how you feel.
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2019, 01:57:52 AM »

Make sure to get recommended amount of vitamin B6. Not only against insomnia but against anxiety and balances the mood.
Bath before bed (keep it at 37 to 38 degrees) the longer you stay in the more sedative it is.
Keep active during the day, no lounging around sedentary but no high exertion exercise either.
Avoid alcohol, caffeine, other stimulants. Caffeine was the worst for me, I cant cut it out completely but if I make sure not to after 12 lunch time my sleep is fine.
Stuff like herbal teas work for me too, but chamomile doesnt work to help sleep rather than calming anxiety. Lemon balm tea does.
I try also to restrict my posting here to the morning rather than late at night which I used to do. It is a double whammy against sleep, first the emotional nature of the posts second the effect of the monitor artificial light.
If these are anxiety attacks rather than ruminations, try an anti anxiety med. I get these waves, a small dose and its over, it literally changes my day to not thinking of her at all. Otherwise it can go on for 2 or 3 days.
when I asked about non-her stuff, for me I found myself too focused on her as the major root cause. The issue here was the lack of being able to do anything more about it - I went NC, but the non-her stuff is there all the same, its just that she was the straw that would break the camel's back. Tackling these non-her stresses was easier and helped.



I don't have any real stress in my 'non-her' life. I'm fortunate in that respect, that my normal life is largely stress free and normal. I am thankful for that.

She's the root cause of all my pain, anxiety, anger, stress, all of it. Mainly I get stressed about the fact that it's been 8 months and I'm still not completely detached from her. I want to be and I'm fighting against it but I don't seem to be moving very far. If anything my pattern seems to be 'two steps forward, one back'.

I have done some of the lessons on here but they don't seem to help. Maybe it's me.
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2019, 03:18:15 AM »

I still come back to 'why'. Always why. Why despite everything I've said about her actions, the validation I've had from family, friends, strangers, even trained mental health professionals, which by now probably numbers in the hundreds, do I still think about this woman. All her recklessness, her fickle nature, her bluster, hollow words, lies and half-truths, her lack of empathy, her lack of affection, warmth, or any of these human qualities that I hold dear. This is a person wholly unsuited to relationships.

Please don't mistake my rant for a lack of responsibility on my part, I was a bit insecure in the beginning. I could've come out of my shell quicker than the two months or so it took me.

Her actions just magnified it and made it worse, to a point where I was worrying about when the next break up would arrive. Or the next threat to break up.

Why did I recycle? Why did I go back, pleasing for another chance? Me!!!! Pleading for another chance to be told that I wasn't being myself, that my self confidence was too low. And this coming from the protagonist, the person that ruined the confidence and self esteem in me!!!!!

Sorry for the rant.
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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2019, 01:54:10 PM »

Plucky no need to apologise.

Seriously mate, it was a no-win game you are unfairly beating yourself up for.

If you were "too confident" that would have been a different problem in itself.

These are "drama" needed relationships. If you are too easy going, mellow and want a peaceful relationship overall that most normal people do - it is going to go wrong. There has to be neural stimulation - fights, arguments, tears, intense outlets of emotion.

After 3 months of the "playing nice" charade, she cheated on me and I felt emotionally like a freight train had blind sided me. There was no reason, no warning. I had been an easy going, happy go lucky partner and enjoyed the relationship. It was the first time I insulted her in a way that was an outlet for not being able to handle the intensity of the situation. I beat the guy up, I slept with her friend, I thought that was the end of it, she then called me begging to see her on night before Valentines day.

Apparently all these things I did that she never experienced before - aggression, fighting for her (or appearing that way) - this was the fuel that attracted her, this was categorised as "confidence".

Its just my way of trying to outline how skewed our own definitions are from anothers. I dont see what I did as confident, when I look back it doesnt resemble the guy I am, or how I have behaved in my life. To her, it fitted a masculine "bad boy" image that she was looking for. But I was clueless to this for the 3 months, she seemed to like everything about me that did not fit this. "fickle nature" fits as a good discription.

About never winning regardless, if I would have hit her during the relationship - it fits the bad boy image it also fuels the ability to paint me black as abusive. So if I would ever leave, it can be reconciled as "I was abandoned by an abusive guy" and she could tell everyone, and there is credit and validity in it.

As much as your walking on eggshells, becoming tepid, timid and not being able to speak up - is then used as a sign of "lack of confidence" and not being yourself - obviously this is what happens when a relationship gets to that point - you have to move away for blaming yourself or questioning why, it is rooted in having to adapt to the circumstances. This cluster thrives and survives from drama. Anything less is the equivalent of them feeling buried alive. Maybe it will take some time to process the seeming absurdity of what I say, or listen to the others who have told you, it is tricky to comprehend what is remote from our own "needs". None of it conducive to good health either, it took me a good year to dampen down a jacked up nervous system, high blood pressure, and not being able to date a woman without wondering "wheres the argument?"

Im not surprised if sleep is impaired and it takes you awhile to readjust to a healthy baseline. I still for example. switch my phone off before I sleep even though there is not a single contact who would phone or text in those hours albeit a valid emergency. This is programming from being in a relationship where every day was primed to expect one, whether it happens or not. It does not overnight suddenly change by them being no contact, for me I had relearn how abnormal it was to live that way it is a form of operant conditioning, the longer the r/s the more deeper rooted to deal with after.
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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2019, 02:39:53 PM »

Excerpt
Why despite everything I've said about her actions
...
All her recklessness, her fickle nature, her bluster, hollow words, lies and half-truths, her lack of empathy, her lack of affection, warmth, or any of these human qualities that I hold dear.

two reasons, i would guess.

the first is that its more complicated. if there werent anything good about her, those things are all you would see, or ever saw. you may be leaning a little too hard into trying to see her as someone fundamentally bad. i tried that myself for a while, and for the life of me, it wouldnt work. you have to acknowledge the bad, certainly. but you have to grieve the good. you have to give yourself permission to do both, without judgment. and you have to reconcile that she is both. that can be hard to do.

the second is that its more complicated. it isnt all about her. its about the bond and the wounds.
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2019, 03:35:38 PM »

two reasons, i would guess.

the first is that its more complicated. if there werent anything good about her, those things are all you would see, or ever saw. you may be leaning a little too hard into trying to see her as someone fundamentally bad. i tried that myself for a while, and for the life of me, it wouldnt work. you have to acknowledge the bad, certainly. but you have to grieve the good. you have to give yourself permission to do both, without judgment. and you have to reconcile that she is both. that can be hard to do.

the second is that its more complicated. it isnt all about her. its about the bond and the wounds.

Well, perhaps you're right. She obviously had some good qualities. She was beautiful and had a good sense of humour, and could be fun to be around. Most of the time.

There is no embellishment of her negatives though. I sound bitter but they're all things she did, said etc. I've even tried to embellish on my side and try to make myself look bad as I would tell my story as objectively as possible and honestly it sounds almost implausible.
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2019, 03:41:56 PM »

Plucky no need to apologise.

Seriously mate, it was a no-win game you are unfairly beating yourself up for.

If you were "too confident" that would have been a different problem in itself.

These are "drama" needed relationships. If you are too easy going, mellow and want a peaceful relationship overall that most normal people do - it is going to go wrong. There has to be neural stimulation - fights, arguments, tears, intense outlets of emotion.

After 3 months of the "playing nice" charade, she cheated on me and I felt emotionally like a freight train had blind sided me. There was no reason, no warning. I had been an easy going, happy go lucky partner and enjoyed the relationship. It was the first time I insulted her in a way that was an outlet for not being able to handle the intensity of the situation. I beat the guy up, I slept with her friend, I thought that was the end of it, she then called me begging to see her on night before Valentines day.

Apparently all these things I did that she never experienced before - aggression, fighting for her (or appearing that way) - this was the fuel that attracted her, this was categorised as "confidence".

Its just my way of trying to outline how skewed our own definitions are from anothers. I dont see what I did as confident, when I look back it doesnt resemble the guy I am, or how I have behaved in my life. To her, it fitted a masculine "bad boy" image that she was looking for. But I was clueless to this for the 3 months, she seemed to like everything about me that did not fit this. "fickle nature" fits as a good discription.

About never winning regardless, if I would have hit her during the relationship - it fits the bad boy image it also fuels the ability to paint me black as abusive. So if I would ever leave, it can be reconciled as "I was abandoned by an abusive guy" and she could tell everyone, and there is credit and validity in it.

As much as your walking on eggshells, becoming tepid, timid and not being able to speak up - is then used as a sign of "lack of confidence" and not being yourself - obviously this is what happens when a relationship gets to that point - you have to move away for blaming yourself or questioning why, it is rooted in having to adapt to the circumstances. This cluster thrives and survives from drama. Anything less is the equivalent of them feeling buried alive. Maybe it will take some time to process the seeming absurdity of what I say, or listen to the others who have told you, it is tricky to comprehend what is remote from our own "needs". None of it conducive to good health either, it took me a good year to dampen down a jacked up nervous system, high blood pressure, and not being able to date a woman without wondering "wheres the argument?"

Im not surprised if sleep is impaired and it takes you awhile to readjust to a healthy baseline. I still for example. switch my phone off before I sleep even though there is not a single contact who would phone or text in those hours albeit a valid emergency. This is programming from being in a relationship where every day was primed to expect one, whether it happens or not. It does not overnight suddenly change by them being no contact, for me I had relearn how abnormal it was to live that way it is a form of operant conditioning, the longer the r/s the more deeper rooted to deal with after.

I've taken 'no contact' to extremes. I've deleted everything, and blocked her on social media. Some might say that's excessive but I did it for my own sanity.

As for the drama thing, she could be paradoxical. Sometimes emotionless and cold, lacking even the basest level of empathy.

Other times, one in particular, where I remarked that we hadn't seen each other much that week. She responded with 'you're right, I think maybe we should split up'

I spent 40 minutes talking her round. Got off the phone, feeling utterly deflated and even more insecure. There were a few instances of this. This particular time was when perhaps in hindsight I started to think maybe the relationship wasn't going to last. But, like a fool, I stayed and invested even more of my heart and soul.

In conclusion, I'm an idiot.
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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2019, 10:32:00 AM »

Hi Plucky

You gave her a chance, it did not work how you might have hoped. There is regret there and some anger to resolve. I felt idiotic at how much I put into the relationship, but looking back today I dont describe myself as an idiot, it was a process of having to discover and learn what was going on. If you never gave her a chance, you would never have known how it might have worked out - that is the other side of the coin.

If I was to get in contact today., id class that as a foolish, stupid choice. I have the benefit now of hindsight. But who knows what state of mind I might be in the future, being depressed for one example which is a common one, or having a state of emotional vulnerability, are underlying factors.

When my depression lifted, so did the anger go away, along with the self-negative talk. It is hard to self declare being an idiot, when each day passes in the here-and-now and I am not doing stupid things. As much as my past, I have done idiotic things but not all the time. My self esteem and confidence were also shattered - but built back. I make extra effort each day to compensate for past failings, it is a bit of mental judo - taking that energy and re-directing it for a positive result. ie - energy that I spent on someone else's needs, the tap got shut off. It took time though, to veer off the roundabout and on to an alternative mental highway. It took me a year to feel like I had a normal life back Plucky, if that helps. Ive had a neuroscientist tell me "give yourself a year" and he was right, as much as I read recently a therapist giving a member here the same indication. Probably a synergy of getting through the cycle of grief and alongside recovery from the physiological effects of emotions such as anger. Life goes on and "The night is still young" is something I hold on from my own parents used to say.  Do you feel at least better 8 months on, then when you first broke up? It could just be despair at wanting to be better but not realising the peak is almost reached but out of view.

In the last 2 months of a year no contact I started to feel exponentially better, the rate of recovery increased.
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2019, 04:13:56 PM »

Yes Cromwell, I do feel better than I did. I am just frustrated I think. I have the odd lapse where I think of the good times and my mind gets clouded. I find it more difficult to think of the bad things. Even though they comfortably outnumber the good.

Hopefully I'm on a similar timescale to yourself.
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2019, 02:31:38 AM »

Hi Plucky,

I read through your whole post for a second time. You mentioned you went crawling back to her several times. Was this as a result of her reaching out after the breakups or did you contact her after the breakups?
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2019, 03:37:52 AM »

Hi Plucky,

I read through your whole post for a second time. You mentioned you went crawling back to her several times. Was this as a result of her reaching out after the breakups or did you contact her after the breakups?

It was me mate, every time. She'd say things like that she felt really lost and not herself and  that she really missed me, when we were broken up. But it was always me, every time. I had ample opportunity to relieve myself of this toxic situation by just staying strong, but I never took it. It's one of the things I beat myself up about.

Appreciate you taking the time to read my posts. Feedback is invaluable to me.
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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2019, 04:18:29 AM »

So she would send out little “feelers” if you will and you would respond and come back?

What was the very first indication of abnormal behavior in the relationship that you recall and how did you angle it?
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 12:46:41 AM »

Staff only

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  The discussion continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339392.msg13075099#msg13075099

Thank you.
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