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Author Topic: Part 3: And just like that she is back in my life.  (Read 1114 times)
bated
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« on: September 17, 2019, 04:43:09 PM »

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is here  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339557.0;all

Out of the blue asked me to meet at neutral venue which we duly did.

It was a little bit uncomfortable initially as she was very sheepish.  That normally means that she wants to apologize as I have been here before.  She did not apologize which was expected as she will wait until we are alone to do that.  I think apologizing makes her feel very vulnerable.

Kept the conversation very light and did not discuss "us" at all.  By the end things were much more comfortable as she had come out of her shell and updated me on things she had been up to.

I asked her if she wanted to do it again sometime? I told her not to answer now but to get back to me sometime next week.

Ended very well as she is now texting me about little things happening in her life.

I am cautiously optimistic.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 12:14:29 AM by Harri, Reason: split thread » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 04:57:40 PM »

Good news! Now's the Time to bud up your own life as well. It will be attractive.

You're gonna we want to master the tools here as well.
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 05:16:34 PM »

I think the key is how I handle her messages when she is angry.  I need to learn to not JADE and set some kinda boundary around how she treats me via messages.

Input welcome ...
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 08:18:57 PM »

I think you are doing great!

If I were to change anything I would not have asked her to do it again sometime or asked her to get back to me next week. That
could spook her. 

I would have said something like “it was good seeing you again. We have fun when we are together” I would have continued to responded to her texts and waited for her to bring up getting together.

But that’s just me and I might be tailoring it to my situation.

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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 08:30:53 PM »

Thanks CK. She has continued to message me and even called me after our meeting so I think things are in a good place.  That does not necessarily mean she wants to get back together, but I do see it as a step in the right direction.

She has not been able to keep anyone in her life and has even fallen out with large parts of her family.  I dont want to desert her even if she only wants to be friends.  We always have fun together when we go out.  There has not been one bad date night and the conversation with her is always so easy even though she is slightly introverted.

I am trying to remain balanced and not get to excited or have too many expectations.

Will keep everyone posted.
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 08:41:13 PM »

I’m happy for you man!

 Keep off the throttle and feather it and let her come to you naturally.

My ex and I were the same. We always were great in person and pretty good on the phone.

It was the texting that got us into trouble. Or rather me into trouble...
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2019, 02:48:01 PM »

I dropped her a very short text about something we had talked about yesterday and link to a site with more information.

Her response was to ask if I wanted to meet up again which immediately brought a smile to my face.  We haven't set a date or time yet, but that tells me that she is slowly coming round  Smiling (click to insert in post)


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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2019, 01:33:39 AM »

any update?
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2019, 08:32:34 PM »

So not looking good at the moment.  A lot of radio silence.  I have texted her occasionally but limited and non-committal responses.  I am not letting it get me down though and trying to focus on me.  I have decided to go no contact for a week or so, unless she contacts me.

I have spoken to a friend who had a similar relationship many years ago and his advice to me was spare myself the heartache and to get out now.  I need sometime to think it through.  I always tend to see the good in people and this makes it hard for me to give up on her.

Any thoughts or recommendations?
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2019, 11:41:06 PM »

whats been the nature of your contact?

generally, if someone is less responsive, its either a good idea to back off or change approach.
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2019, 01:09:56 PM »

I sent her on text with an inside joke that we both always laugh at to which there was no response.  The other was a last minute invite to join me and some friends which got a simple "I have plans". 2 days of no contact now so interested to see what happens.

I am in a good place mentally and I am not going to let this get me down.  If she contacts me then great but if not then so be it.

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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2019, 05:48:53 PM »

Yes, I agree. You need to pull back and let her come to you.

It’s going to be tough and it may be a long time before you hear from her again. You may never. That’s just the simple reality.
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 12:36:33 PM »

So she contacted me asking how I was doing.   I kept the discussion light and the discussion now spans multiple days.  She mentioned that she had deleted all her online dating accounts which I thought was strange thing to mention to me.

I sense that she is thawing a bit which is a positive but she is still guarded.  Is this to save a bit of face because of the way she split me black or is she genuinely guarded because of engulfment fears?
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2019, 01:21:22 PM »

Is this to save a bit of face because of the way she split me black or is she genuinely guarded because of engulfment fears?

think about this in terms of human nature. when we are learning about BPD, its easy to ascribe things to it. but people with BPD traits are really just like you and me, they do everything the rest of us do, they just take it to extremes.

Excerpt
I sense that she is thawing a bit which is a positive but she is still guarded.

i think this is probably right; thats the natural course of things, and its a sign that is somewhere between neutral and good...you wouldnt want to go from 0-60. the fact that you gave space and she reached out is a good sign. for a lot of people in these circumstances, its more about ending on a positive note and then going separate ways, and it doesnt seem she necessarily wants to do that.
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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 02:03:51 AM »

hi bated,
You have an interesting story going on here.  Is there a link where we can read your story?  I mean how long was your relationship with your Bpd.  How it evolved and how long you are separated?  Are there any kids from either side?
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« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 06:27:24 PM »

hi bated,
You have an interesting story going on here.  Is there a link where we can read your story?  I mean how long was your relationship with your Bpd.  How it evolved and how long you are separated?  Are there any kids from either side?

My story is all on this thread.  We have been separated about 3 weeks now although she has started warming towards me again.   She has kids which I adore but they are not mine.

A quick update, I got a message in the middle of the night telling me that I was very good to her and she thanked me.  I acknowledged her thank you when I woke up but she ignored it and changed the topic.  She has been texting me a lot (everyday) which I think is a good sign.

She also has a new friend who is in the idealization phase.  She spends so much time with her but is always not available to see me.  A little frustrating but I know that it is just a matter of time and she will have time for me again.
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2019, 04:40:51 PM »

another update:

Slowly but surely my gfwBPD has been thawing and I see her at least twice a week now.  She also calls me regularly and texts me everyday without fail.  She has still not apologized but there have been a few occasions where I could tell she wanted to tell me something but did not.

There has been very limited intimacy, holding hands and hugs is as far as we have got so far, but this does not bother me.  The most important thing is we always have fun together and the conversation is easy and often meaningful, the rest will follow naturally.

I am still not a priority in her life, she has a new girl friend who is very much in the idealization phase, so she spends a lot of time with her.  I have encouraged her to spend time with her new friend as she has very few friends, and no long term friends.  I have accepted this and I am comfortable with it.

Some of my key things I have learned (with the help from OnceRemoved and ColdKnight):
1. You have to accept them for who they are.  The term used is "radical acceptance" and is much harder than it sounds
2. Accept that you also have to change and improve.  Us nons are not always are not always blameless and there is always room for improvement.
3. Don't chase too hard. Just because they have BPD doesn't mean they don't get turned off by insecurity and being overly available.  As an example, I would send one text and wait for a reply.  I would not text again or ask why I got no response, although in most cases I got one, sometimes after a few days delay.  If I did not get one I simply ignored it, and would text her about something else when I needed to.
4. Accept that they want to save face and won't apologize immediately.  Expect them to justify their behavior and to blame you for the way they behaved.  Don't argue but validate appropriately (this does not mean you have to agree).  Acknowledge what they are feeling.
5. Accept that they will continue to say hurtful things and blame you for what happened.  The key is not to react, but rather say something like "I understand" or "I get it".  Don't take the bait, as I think sometimes they are testing you to see if you are going to react.   My observation has been that if you do this, they stop making the remarks.
6. Don't bring up what happened, let them bring it up.  My gfwBPD specifically asked for this, so when we met up I acted like nothing bad had happened.  I kept the conversation light and entertaining.
7.  Be kind and thoughtful.  This has definitely helped me, noticing when she needed some help, or sending her something nice "Just Because" not with a soppy love note.

I hope this helps others.
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2019, 09:00:14 PM »

i think thats good, solid advice bated. you sound pretty centered.

these are challenging relationships to say the least. it takes a lot.

Excerpt
There has been very limited intimacy, holding hands and hugs is as far as we have got so far, but this does not bother me

how would you describe the status of the relationship? are the two of you an item?
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2019, 10:46:38 PM »

I am in a good place.  These relationships make you do a lot of introspection which is never a bad thing.  I have lost a lot of weight, through exercise and diet and I am feeling very good about myself.  I am in the place where I love her deeply, but won't let her hurt me.  I am here for her and will always be kind to her no matter what happens between us.

She was abused as a child and has never known kindness and I want to show her that it exists, no matter how hard she tries to hurt me. I want to be there for her always, even if it is simply as a friend.  She has never had someone she can truly rely on being there for her, and this includes her family.  I think kindness is the key to successful relationships with a pwBPD,  and I think many of the books fail to mention this.

To answer your question, we are in a relationship.  The limited intimacy is partly is as much me as it is her.  I want to take things slowly and not rush.  This might sound strange to some, but I think this is important. 

I am under no illusion -  I am not choosing the easy path.

Time will tell.
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2019, 10:56:22 PM »

Excerpt
I want to take things slowly and not rush.  This might sound strange to some, but I think this is important. 

its not a bad idea. you dont want the relationship to jump back to where it was. you want an evolved version.
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2019, 05:02:24 PM »

“I am in a good place.  These relationships make you do a lot of introspection which is never a bad thing.  I have lost a lot of weight, through exercise and diet and I am feeling very good about myself.  I am in the place where I love her deeply, but won't let her hurt me.  I am here for her and will always be kind to her no matter what happens between us”

I really believe that is the best frame of mind to have. Stay centered and take things slow. I think you are doing very well.
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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2019, 08:33:03 PM »

I am posting this for the benefit of others that might be in a similar situation.

So a lot has transpired since my original post but two week ago my exBPDgf told me that she needed space and that I was not to contact her.  After a bit of JADE my part she got really angry and told me that I was never to contact her again.  She told me I was weak; not man enough for her; and codependent.

After reading books like Stop Walking On Eggshells I was prepared for this and was mentally in a good place.  I told her I would respect her wishes but that I was not going anywhere and that I was there for her if she needed me.

Today she contacted me and was initially a bit coy, but eventually told me that she thinks that I am an amazing person and that she is sorry she is not a better person.  I validated what she said and told her I try not take things personally when she is angry.  I also told her that I see an amazing person in her.

I would also like to add that I think the validation is the reason she said I am not man enough for her.  I believe she is used to guys reacting and fighting with her.  Just a thought on my part.

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this?  What is the best response to the "I am sorry I am not a better person"?
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 06:42:38 AM »

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this?  What is the best response to the "I am sorry I am not a better person"?

there isnt an easy answer.

its kind of like what is the best response to "im ugly/unattractive", or "i suck", or "i will hurt you", or "i am bad for you".

obviously, you dont want to say "its cool! i love you anyway!". who wants to hear that you agree that theyre unattractive, but love them anyway? what kind of message would that send?

and neither is there a lot of point in arguing. why? because these are deeply held beliefs. there is no arguing them away from someone. and if you believed, fundamentally believed, that you were an unattractive (or bad, or whatever) person, and someone came along telling you how beautiful you were, or great you were, you might question their sincerity and think "what is this person buttering me up for?". or maybe youd think something is wrong with them. same thing if you treated someone badly, and they told you how great they are.

so often, when we are learning about validation, its more about us, or trying to make our loved ones problems go away, than actually validating.

listening, actively listening, can sometimes be the most validating thing we can do.
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2019, 11:03:26 PM »

there isnt an easy answer.

its kind of like what is the best response to "im ugly/unattractive", or "i suck", or "i will hurt you", or "i am bad for you".

obviously, you dont want to say "its cool! i love you anyway!". who wants to hear that you agree that theyre unattractive, but love them anyway? what kind of message would that send?

and neither is there a lot of point in arguing. why? because these are deeply held beliefs. there is no arguing them away from someone. and if you believed, fundamentally believed, that you were an unattractive (or bad, or whatever) person, and someone came along telling you how beautiful you were, or great you were, you might question their sincerity and think "what is this person buttering me up for?". or maybe youd think something is wrong with them. same thing if you treated someone badly, and they told you how great they are.

so often, when we are learning about validation, its more about us, or trying to make our loved ones problems go away, than actually validating.

listening, actively listening, can sometimes be the most validating thing we can do.

Thanks for the reply Once Removed.  It is all moot at this point as she informed me that she is with another guy.  She admitted that she is only with him because he is "providing" for her and that she needs to work on herself.  She also admitted that she does not love herself and is dissociated (she said she is even dissociated from herself - not sure what that means?).  I guess I am lucky as she is quite self aware and asked me not to take it personally.

I have read so much on BPD and agree with 99% of what is said except one area.  I do believe that borderlines are able to love and I think they continue to love people at their core.  I think the "coping" mechanisms they have developed prevent them from showing it most of the time as they simply feel too vulnerable.

I do not take what she has done personally - I think the most helpful thing for me has been the idea of radical acceptance, although at first it was difficult for me to understand exactly what was meant.  I think it would be better to use the phrase "accept them as they are - both the good and the bad".

Also, not reacting to splitting and dissociating helps immensely. You take away the venom when you don't react as they expect it.  When you don't react and continue to show kindness and compassion, borderlines don't know what to do.  They are so used to people reacting negatively that they almost have a script ready to go.  I found one of the most useful phrases when my exBPDgf was dysregulating was "I understand - I am not going to argue with you".  I noticed she did not know how to respond to this.

Will I take her back?  I continue to truly care about her, but something this time feels different.

Watch this space for future updates.
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2019, 11:43:46 PM »

Excerpt
It is all moot at this point as she informed me that she is with another guy.  She admitted that she is only with him because he is "providing" for her and that she needs to work on herself
My ex once told me she's the kind of person that could live together, have a family, grow old with someone and not ever consider it a relationship.

Reading what she told you it seems that she's rationalizing/verbalizing her own perception of "being unworthy of love" by making the new guy "about providing for her", aka: no emotional investment.

Being vulnerable is scary, and I think both these women can't handle it (heightened reactions from bpd).

Excerpt
I do believe that borderlines are able to love and I think they continue to love people at their core.  I think the "coping" mechanisms they have developed prevent them from showing it most of the time as they simply feel too vulnerable.
I think so too.

Excerpt
She told me I was weak; not man enough for her; and codependent
I heard that too. But then again, she was the one demanding I look at my phone over text, desperate that I hadn't answered her in 20mins or something, about a week before she cut contact with me last time, so who's being weak is irrelevant.

Excerpt
we are in a relationship
Excerpt
two week ago my exBPDgf told me that she needed space and that I was not to contact her
Seems consistent.

Excerpt
told me that she thinks that I am an amazing person and that she is sorry she is not a better person
But a relationship is not possible.

My guess is, and I'm speculating here, is that maybe we need to take their word at face value. They can't handle a relationship, they need to work on themselves, not on "us", the demands, expectations, commitment.

They go straight to the next partner because they want companionship, not a relationship.

Like my ex said, share life, raise a family, grow old, and yet "not a couple", not ever.

Note this doesn't mean they can't love, they maybe just can't handle a formal relationship.

Excerpt
she said I am not man enough for her.  I believe she is used to guys reacting and fighting with her.  Just a thought on my part.

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this?
Being thick skinned to have a "not relationship" is, I think, what they mean when they say "we are not man enough".

Sorry for the long post, it helps me to make sense of what I'm posting to make sure it doesn't sound like disconnected ideas  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) hopefully it makes sense  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2019, 01:56:33 AM »


They go straight to the next partner because they want companionship, not a relationship.


Thanks for the response itsmeSnap.

My exBPDgf it is not about the companionship but rather the need for a sponsor to pay her bills.  She lives well above her means, even her rent is more than she can afford so her motivation is mostly financial.  She even said to me that new guy is an arrangement and I believe this is one of the reasons she has dissociated (I suspect new guy is married).  She seems unhappy and is a very different person.

I won't go into details but she has got it in her head that I will not be able to provide for her in the future.  We have spoken about this at length and I have said to her she needs to be financially independent otherwise the guy in her life is always going to be in control because he is "sponsoring" her.

I did not sponsor her when we started dating and I believe she was working overtime etc to make sure that she could pay most of her bills.  I only started helping her after about 12 months.  This is why I believe she has real feelings for me, as I don't believe she has ever done this with another guy.

I am in NC at the moment, although today being a holiday I did try to send her best wishes however it appears I am blocked.  Lucky for me this means that NC is still in place ;-)
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