I Need Help

[ChiDance]

I’m looking for advice on how to improve my situation.  I’m a stay-at-home- Dad with two kids and a borderline wife. Here’s the situation as concisely as I can manage.

My wife is a high-functioning borderline (undiagnosed).  She is in complete denial of her issues and believes all the issues are mine, blaming me for everything she does and everything else.  We have two kids who are turning into maniacs as a result of awful parenting and a toxic home environment.  She thinks I need therapy (I do, but not for the reasons she thinks). 

Something’s got to change.  I either need to get her into therapy, or get away from her, or figure out how to exist with her and react to her in such a way that it defuses/detensifies the toxic environment.  My main concern right now is my kids.  How do I best protect them? Ideally, I’d want to get help for my wife so that she can recover.  From what I’ve read, high-functioning borderlines are notoriously difficult to treat and even harder to convince that they need treatment.  So how would I get her into treatment?

My kids are different people when my wife is not around.  When she’s present, they scream anytime there’s a hint that they might not get their way about something, and they don’t listen to me at all.  They’ve been taught that “no” means scream louder til you get what you want, that daddy isn’t worthy of respect and doesn’t have to be listened to.  When she’s not there, they’re far from perfect but they are way more even-tempered and respectful.  When my wife comes home from work, it’s like a switch is thrown, and the screaming begins.  And the more time they spend with her the worse they get.  The interesting thing is that despite all the chaos, they seem to want her more the worse the situation gets.  She’ll be screaming and cussing at everyone, and the kids will be screaming and crying for her attention. 
And she buys their affection.  Anytime she’s with them she feeds them junk food and buys them things.  She has no consideration for my desires to feed them healthy food, and we have been spending more than we earn for a long time.  We’re headed for financial disaster.




So given this situation, I wonder if my kids would be better off if I left my wife?
Here’s the “Pros”
-they’d have a place (my place) without the chaos:  No one screaming and cussing at them (and me).  Accountability for their actions (rules that can’t be broken with impunity).  No one to scream at for a second opinion if I tell them to do or not-do something.  No piles of junk (toys etc) everywhere that they can keep and I can’t get rid of because they are “special”.
-They’d have s place where healthy food is the only option.
-I’d be able to talk to them and be with them without the constant second-guessing, backstabbing and badmouthing that comes from their mom.
-they’d see me walk away from an unhealthy situation and hopefully learn that if someone is treating you like crap, you don’t stay with that person.

“Cons”

-if I moved out, there’d be no one at their mom’s house to buffer the crazy,  and without me there to do everything for her, the crazy would undoubtedly get worse.
-I’d still be stuck in a _____ty relationship with her by virtue of having to collaborate about raising the kids, and I would have even less supervision over the unhealthy destructive things she does with/for them
-the constant badmouthing of their dad (me) would probably get worse, and I worry about the how bad that might get, the lies that might get told, etc.
-they might learn that if you are unhappy in a situation, you can just run away.

So what do I do?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go, how do I go?  What do I need to do?
If I stay, how do I get help?  Help for her.  Help for the kids, help for me.

I’ve considered an intervention, but from what I’ve read, that’s a very bad idea. (Her mom and I both independently came to the conclusion that she’s borderline, and I believe her sister also knows/agrees and would be available as an ally.)

She has said she’s open to couples counseling (for my sake, to help me work on my problems).  I’m wondering if I could find a BPD specialist to do do couples counseling and use that to get her into treatment without her knowing that’s the goal?  I’ve called some therapists with this in mind, and I keep getting told to call someone else or read another book.

What should I do?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Hi ChiDance and welcome!

I'm so sorry for the situation that brings you here (it sounds like you've got a LOT on your plate) but I'm glad you've found us. We're a supportive group and you'll find that many members here can empathize with what you're experiencing.

First of all, no one here will tell you whether you should stay or go. That's something only you can decide. What we can do is walk with you through your options and help you with whatever path you choose to take. Also, we have a lot of experience, tools and skills that can be very useful in making situations like yours better. It is possible.

Yes, it is very difficult to get a pwBPD into therapy. We have an article on that very issue here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy
Have you read it? If not, I would encourage you to give it a look.

I'm afraid I'm not the best at giving advice about children since I'm not a parent myself. But there are other members here who should be able to give more helpful advice.

I do have some experience, though, with learning how to communicate effectively and reduce the toxicity. My H and I have been in a MUCH better place since I started practicing the skills I learned here. Can you give a specific example of a recent volatile exchange? If we know more details, we can help you troubleshoot better.

Best wishes and keep posting!

[No-One]

Hi ChiDance:
I'd like to join Ozzie101 in welcoming you.

I’ve considered an intervention, but from what I’ve read, that’s a very bad idea.

You're right, not a good idea.  People won't benefit from treatment unless they want it. Triangulating with others could back fire.

So what do I do?  Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go, how do I go?  What do I need to do?

Only you can make the decision.

One approach could be:
1.  Get your own individual therapy
      A. Talk through the issues in your marriage with a professional (practice before going to couples therapy could be beneficial)
      B.  Learn some self care for yourself

2.  Start couples therapy with a different therapist, after you've gained some strategy from your individual therapy.

3.  Hope for the best, but explore and prepare for a possible divorce.

She has said she’s open to couples counseling (for my sake, to help me work on my problems).  I’m wondering if I could find a BPD specialist to do do couples counseling and use that to get her into treatment without her knowing that’s the goal?  I’ve called some therapists with this in mind, and I keep getting told to call someone else or read another book.    

It's worth a try to go to couples' counseling.  Best to find one who has had some experience with BPD clients.  Are you in the U.S.?  Her are a couple of places to search for therapists if you are in the US:

https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/
https://www.findapsychologist.org/
https://dbt-lbc.org/index.php?page=101163

Don't let it bother you that she thinks you are the problem.  Getting your own therapy could be helpful by itself.  When only one person in a relationship changes (even if it's the emotionally healthier person), it's possible for things to improve overall.

You can mention BPD in a private conversation with a therapist.  Just don't mention BPD in front of your wife.  Deal with the individual issues: Excess spending, unregulated emotions (yelling cussing), no concurrence on raising the children, etc.

It can help you to learn some of the communication strategies in the various workshops on this website.  A good place to start is to check out the "Tools" menu in the large green band at the top of the page. "Don't Invalidate" & "Boundaries" are good places to start.

It might even be better for you to seek some individual therapy first & learn/practice strategic ways to communicate with your wife.  It could be beneficial for you to go into couples therapy with certain communication skills & knowledge of strategic ways to word the issues. An individual therapist for you could help coach you through discussing the issues in advance.  

Planning for the worst and hoping for the best could help ease some anxiety.  It can't hurt to work through the thought process of what you might need to do to get divorced (especially since you are a stay at home dad).

The board to read and post about family law issues is at the link below:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0

You might want to do some reading & perhaps initiate your own specific post to learn what others did to prepare for a split.

Since you are considering divorce, and could be dealing with child custody matters,you should start documenting events that the courts could view as child abuse (day, time, what happened). Some people record conversations.  It depends on where you live & local laws as to whether recordings can be used in court or not (i.e. 2-party or 1-party conscent).  Even if 2-party conscent is needed, some people have gotten out of false claims of abuse on their part by having a tape to let the police listen to.

Just be careful with anything you document, your browser history, etc.  The last thing you want is to have her get her hands on your documentation.  Be sure to password protect, Maybe only store on external devices (i.e. thumb drive), keep multiple copies of documentation in places she doesn't have access.