NC - thoughts/questions

[skylark23]

Alright, I'm back after posting previously about working on LC, now I'm feeling ready to go NC. I've actually been debating this internally for over a year, but LC seemed to be working okay and I've been feeling stronger/more confident.

Nothing has really changed, except me and what I'm willing to allow in my life.

The latest round of drama (I think it's actually extinction burst, forgot what that was called) just keeps going and while I'm staying out of it, I'm not totally ignorant of it. In two days I got calls from three siblings and a text from one more. Three of them understand and are supportive of whatever I want to do re:contact with my mom. They wanted to know how to proceed if/when they talked to her about it.

The past three days she has contacted anyone she can in my family right now and gone on and on about how I must hate her/my DH must be keeping me and kids from talking to/seeing her, she can't understand what is going on and why I won't talk to her, expounding on how she "begs and pleads" to be part of my kids' lives and is blocked at every turn, that my siblings are ready to write me off, how I can't possibly be busy and have no excuse to not talk to her bc I only have two kids and she had nine and still kept in touch with all of her siblings and her parents (she forgets that she was estranged from her siblings for months/years at a time, often and her mother played favorites and actually withdrew from her as my mom got older and eventually left her out of her will when she died.) She is ignoring me any time I respond to her in our family group message (my only direct contact with her at this point.) Then she texted me last night to let me know that she is sending a package to me (of what, I have no clue.) I also received a letter in the mail yesterday from my youngest half-sister (she's 8, I believe) with whom I have no contact. She wrote about how she misses me (I moved away when she was 3), how are my kids doing, how much fun she has with my mom, and how she hopes to hear from me soon and please write back. My mom generally has a child do this sort of thing when she is trying to figure out a response, sort of a last-ditch effort.

I ignored the text and threw away the letter. I replied to my siblings that asked that: I'm tired of it all, the anxiety I still experience around contact with her, and that I'm ready to either go down to a neutral card only on birthday/holidays, or completely NC at all. Told them up to them how they want to handle any response.

I have a couple of concerns with going NC. First is that I have a few adult younger sisters either at home or still in close contact with her and they will "tattle" if I share absolutely anything about myself or why I am not responding to something. That's up to them but makes it awkward. A few I stay out of contact with or keep it to their lives only in conversation, sort of "grey rock." One I am encouraging to get counseling as she is out of the house but struggling emotionally. She's military and her supervisors have told her if she does not get it together she is getting a mental health referral. Mom is her source of distress. I'd like to be available for my other sisters if they decide to separate and look for support but if I go NC I'd include all the ones at home and not sure how to proceed with sister that's military.

Second, I'm not sure what to do if mom sends gifts/letters/etc. - should I return everything or simply ignore it and toss/donate? Should I block her on all social media and numbers, or simply delete/ignore any messages? What I don't want to signal is that there is a chance of contact again in the future, which accepting gifts and simply ignoring calls/messages might do. She might simply think it is the silent treatment and try harder to guilt me back/reconcile through nice messages or gifts.

Third, do I simply disappear, or send a final letter or message and tell her I'm going NC and do not attempt to contact me any longer. I realize that she won't believe it or accept it, but is it the correct way to handle it?

I've spent quite a bit of time thinking over NC and while this latest burst is certainly a straw breaking the camel's back, I believe I'm not acting impulsively. I am, however, quite done. I do not see any benefit to myself or my DH/kids in staying in contact, and I do not believe that she will ever change except for the worse. We have not had a mother/daughter relationship for years and I don't see the point in maintaining a relationship that is so toxic.

What suggestions/insights/thoughts do you all have?

[tryingforzen]

Ugh-  I so feel for you and I am in a similar boat.  So, some history...this past summer after I was hung-up on, got silent treatment for 3 weeks, then an email saying I can just "forget she exists from now on"... I actually decided to follow her advice and didn't respond.  I also decided not to do our annual trip to visit (the only time of year she sees my kids).  After a few weeks, that led to desperate crying voicemails about how much she loves and needs me in her life.  Just seeing her name come up on my phone (I didn't answer) gave me so much anxiety that my therapist suggested I block the calls.  I finally sent an email laying out some boundaries if we were going to have a relationship going forward- in it I pointed out the fact that she cannot keep acting out- hanging up, silent treatment, telling us to forget about her- and not acknowledging that these things are hurtful and I have feelings too.  I referenced the fact that in none of her pleading voicemails did she say she was sorry or admit that maybe she had over reacted.  And I told her I wanted her to finally listen to her Dr and get some help either by accepting the anti-depressant drugs the Dr keeps telling her she needs or by talking to a professional about her misery and depression (she's undiagnosed BPD and I've never mentioned to her I am fairly certain she has it).  The response has been an email telling me how horrible I am for keeping her from her grandchildren (supposedly the only joy in her life), how where we are right now is totally my fault, how selfish I am how she cannot believe I won't take her calls and how appalled she is I am making her resort to email, etc.  She also makes mention numerous times about how we just need to fight and argue about this to get past it (I'm super fearful of argument and confrontation, especially with her so that immediately just shut me down).  I haven't responded to that last email.  That was 2 weeks ago. 

During this time, I had a birthday.  She sent me a generic card with a check in it.  I agonized for days how to handle it (and posted here for advice).  I ended up sending a simple email thanking her.  I deposited the check and immediately made a donation to a charity.  My son had a birthday a week after me.  He got a sappy card with cash-  same amount as my check (which I found amusing since I'm sure mine was a test to see what I would do).  We had him call to thank her but he got voicemail and left a message.  A week after that was my dog's birthday.  I got an Amazon package in the mail with toys for the dog.  I didn't bother responding to that. 

Long story short, I am struggling too.  In response to your question of whether you should send one last message telling her of your plans-  I don't know what the right answer is, but for me I struggle everyday with the open-endedness of where I am.  I hate the fact that I get a notification of a new email and am scared to open it for fear it's an email from my mom.

I just have one sister.  We have been very close but I've realized through the last few months a lot of our relationship was us commiserating over "how crazy mom is".  Since mom and I have stopped speaking we have had a really strained relationship bc she doesn't understand why I'm doing this/ treating mom like this.  She has never been to therapy like I have.  She thinks we should just accept that mom is nuts and keep doing what we've been doing.  She also doesn't have kids and I am becoming more aware of how my kids exposure to our crazy mom might effect them.  And my sister isn't married.  She's had the same boyfriend for the same amount of time I have been married (14 years).  My mom LOVES her boyfriend and hates my husband (who has been so supportive and tolerant of her through the years, who provides a great life for me and our kids and enables me to stay home with our kids).  My sister will be visiting the end of this month and I'm a little nervous about how it will go since I have thrown a wrench in the whole family dynamic.   

Like you, I am just at a point (finally) where I am not willing to keep accepting this drama and poor treatment.  It's been crazy hard, but I have an amazing therapist helping me and encouraging me.  Whenever I've been ready to throw in the towel and just go back to the way things were, I have been reminded that it's normal for this to be uncomfortable bc it's new and change isn't easy.   Sorry I don't think I have any solid advice for you but you are def not alone! 

[Pilpel]

I just went NC a couple months ago with a SIL.  So I know it's a completely different relationship.  I think going NC with a parent would be more difficult, because it's a relationship you've known since birth, but the choice to go NC was complicated for similar reasons.  How would it effect my relationship with my brother/her husband? How would it effect our family's ability to maintain a relationship with SIL's children?   My FOO is small.  Birthday parties are a bigger deal for my SIL, so I've already decided that I will most likely not participate in parties for my parents.   

My going NC started with an email exchange where I first requested that SIL leave me out of conversations where she is complaining about her marriage to my brother, but it escalated to where I had to just say, "I need to stay out of your life until you work things out."   

Skylark, when establishing NC with a parent, I'm not sure if it's better to write a letter or just go NC.  Especially since you've already been going LC.  And they don't seem to acknowledge your feelings anyway.  I guess I tend to think that it's good to let them know what you intend and why. But if you do, keep it short and to the point.

tryingforzen, Interesting reading what you're going through with your mom.  And in a lot of ways, I can see similar behaviors in my SIL.  Interactions with her always feel circular and repetitive, and there's never any accountability on her part.  She's always the victim, and her manipulation and rage never have any relevance. 

[Panda39]

he past three days she has contacted anyone she can in my family right now and gone on and on about how I must hate her/my DH must be keeping me and kids from talking to/seeing her, she can't understand what is going on and why I won't talk to her, expounding on how she "begs and pleads" to be part of my kids' lives and is blocked at every turn, that my siblings are ready to write me off, how I can't possibly be busy and have no excuse to not talk to her bc I only have two kids and she had nine and still kept in touch with all of her siblings and her parents (she forgets that she was estranged from her siblings for months/years at a time, often and her mother played favorites and actually withdrew from her as my mom got older and eventually left her out of her will when she died.) She is ignoring me any time I respond to her in our family group message (my only direct contact with her at this point.) Then she texted me last night to let me know that she is sending a package to me (of what, I have no clue.) I also received a letter in the mail yesterday from my youngest half-sister (she's 8, I believe) with whom I have no contact. She wrote about how she misses me (I moved away when she was 3), how are my kids doing, how much fun she has with my mom, and how she hopes to hear from me soon and please write back. My mom generally has a child do this sort of thing when she is trying to figure out a response, sort of a last-ditch effort.

Hi Skylark, the above sounds like the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt...emotional blackmail) Machine is on high!  Your mom is throwing everything and everyone she can at you (where's the kitchen sink?  in order to get you back into the role she wants you to play with in the family...within the dysfunction.  You are making changes that are having ripple effects with your whole family dynamic...you are breaking away and taking care of you which in my opinion is the right thing to do.  Everyone is uncomfortable, due to change, but uncomfortable does not equal bad. 

More on FOG in case you haven't seen it already...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Panda39

[TelHill]

but uncomfortable does not equal bad. 

More on FOG in case you haven't seen it already...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Panda39

Not a bpd story, but one of improving my health. I had bad rosacea for many years and was overweight. I found a great prescription for my skin and lost the weight.

It felt weird having to shop for new clothes. I had a lot of different varieties of clothing to chose from now. I didn't have to wear thick foundation to cover my skin problems. I was the same person but people didn't recognize me. It felt uncomfortable; it took time to get used to it.  Being healthy was wonderful though. I wouldn't change it.

[skylark23]

tryingforzen thanks for sharing your story with me. It is so encouraging to hear such similar stories and know that I am not alone. Especially days where I start to wonder if it isn't all in my head (hello, gaslighting, you are there even when not being actively...gaslit. Ha.)

Pilpel thanks for the input. I agree that generally I think a note would be best, but I don't know with her. It would more likely be taken as a "reaching out" and invite her to attempt reengagement with a vengeance and/or somehow add fuel to her crusade against me, and I'd rather just not go through that. It is what has happened any time that I have stated a boundary in the past. Perhaps better to quietly fade away and give her absolutely nothing. Sure she will be confused and hurt per usual but if she did ever choose to go get help and figure it out, if she really wanted to, I'm sure a good therapist would help her with it.

Panda39 the kitchen sink might still be held in reserve It was helpful to consider that is all she is trying to do - push me back into my previous role of Rescuer and perhaps Golden Child. Not sure why the last one other than that it ensures my compliance... I read through the FOG post again (thank you) and that got me thinking over my own motives and led to a very insightful journaling session. In short, I realized that I was (still!) unconsciously allowing uBPD mom to be my moral authority. Therefore if what I want (or need) goes against her wants/needs than it is bad therefore I am bad therefore I have no worth because bad people have no worth (in her eyes) only good people are worth anything, therefore I must be good to have worth/feel good about myself and I cannot be good if she does not think that I am. So what I do and how I go about initiating/maintaining no contact will need to be guided by my beliefs grounded in a different source of moral authority (of my choosing, and I do not choose her) because otherwise it would be totally sabotaged. (She would not want me to be NC therefore it would be bad to go NC therefore I am bad if I go NC, under the old system of belief.)

TelHill thank you. Encouraging to remember that mental health is just as important as physical health (impacts, it too!) and although the journey is uncomfortable, what a wonderful result will be had at the end.

I was far more emotional than I was letting myself believe over the whole last round. I had fallen into Victim mentality. I feel so much better today. For now I'm simply choosing to disengage entirely and give myself plenty of time to be comfortable with the finality of going No Contact. I really want to focus on myself, my healing, and my family (building a strong one/ending old patterns) and move forward leaving all of that old junk behind.

[Pilpel]

Pilpel thanks for the input. I agree that generally I think a note would be best, but I don't know with her. It would more likely be taken as a "reaching out" and invite her to attempt reengagement with a vengeance and/or somehow add fuel to her crusade against me, and I'd rather just not go through that. It is what has happened any time that I have stated a boundary in the past.

That's understandable, Skylark.  The SIL I went NC with is having a birthday party, and I debated wether or not to give her a card (from the family) and a gift.  I even got a card -and it was hard to find one that had a "have a good birthday" message instead of "your a ray of sunshine" by the way.  But in the end, I think I'm not going to give anything.  I wish I could send her something that gives the message: "I may not want to be part of your life, but I wish you well."  But at the same time just an effort to be kind and wish her a good birthday could open up a can of worms. 

I would be interested in hearing an update a few months out, to hear how it goes going NC. 

[TelHill]

I was far more emotional than I was letting myself believe over the whole last round. I had fallen into Victim mentality. I feel so much better today. For now I'm simply choosing to disengage entirely and give myself plenty of time to be comfortable with the finality of going No Contact. I really want to focus on myself, my healing, and my family (building a strong one/ending old patterns) and move forward leaving all of that old junk behind.

Is NC really final or is NC a needed long-term break? This may not apply to you, I believe I made a mistake by saying NC was final many times when I was 18 well into my 40s. It really wasn't. It was long NC breaks punctuated by LC. It may have created too much drama in an already volatile situation. My brother resents me for the NC I believe.

I found long periods of NC to be extremely helpful towards healing and moving forward in life.