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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: When/how do I get better  (Read 938 times)
StillStuck

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« on: October 27, 2019, 07:46:54 AM »

I was in a long-term affair with a woman who was diagnosed with BPD, but who rejects the diagnosis. She came to live with my family while seeking mental health treatment to recover from a rape. She presented me and my family as the only option. She was 15 years younger than me, but became completely enmeshed in my family.

Over time, we got very close and she leaned on me for emotional support. I was made to feel like I was the only one keeping her alive and I repeatedly intervened to stop her self-harm or deal with its aftermath. I cared for her and became attracted to her, but I tried to avoid romantic involvement. Still, I kept getting sucked into situations I couldn’t handle. Eventually, she threatened to kill herself if I didn’t sleep with her. I resisted for hours but became scared and eventually did. Whenever I said I wanted to come clean and tell my wife, she’d manipulate me. I stopped the behavior for months, but was in a situation where I had to lie repeatedly after she left my house. Eventually, I got trapped in a situation where I had to lie so much that I began to convince myself it must be love — I couldn’t understand why else I would do things I knew were wrong and made me feel guilty.

Then I re-establishes the relationship. It hadn’t really ended, but we had tried to avoid romance. We entered a period of idealize, devalue, discard where I would increasingly beg her to return. I became more and more desperate with each discard. She gaslighted next and rejected me constantly for years. Eventually she started accusing me of stalking her. I was crazy and out of control, but when I’d admit to doing something she’d pocket that and create new accusations. I admitted to things I wasn’t going and did more crazy things and completely lost myself.

Eventually she found a new target and ended the relationship, telling me I was an abuser and that I had groomed her and stalked her. I’ve been in therapy for 15 months, I’ve told my wife everything, I’ve been in a 2-month residential treatment program, but I still feel confused and guilty and like I’m falling apart.

I’ve been no contact, but there are so many people and things in our life that overlap that she or people we mutually know and care about pop up repeatedly. Randomly, old friends or people I knew will block me on social media without warning or explanation.

My wife lived through a lot of it as well so she believes me. I’ve gotten some old texts that prove the gaslighting. My therapists have diagnosed me with PTSD and abuse. But I don’t believe myself. When and how will I get better?
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BrokenSpokane
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non-BPD was with BPD and healing


« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 09:06:39 AM »

I'm sorry you went through that. Sounds like typical behavior we have all experienced here.

I too have PTSD from my past exBPDgf relationship. I thought everything was my fault. I couldn't do it say anything right. I was suicidal and I felt like I was literally going crazy. Luckily, I'm out now and NC and there never will be. I continue to go to therapy on a weekly basis to help me go through the grieving process and detach. The damage I endured was pretty bad, for I lost my self-esteem, my sense of self-worth and I became someone that I'm not.

What has helped me is therapy, the exercises in the sticky topics of this forum, taking about it with friends and family. They know who I am and have been extremely supportive. I've done and continue to do lots of writing. I've done lots of reading. The book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and the accompanying workbook has been very helpful as well. I have to process what has happened and realize that it's not my fault. I was made to believe that her lack of feeling like she was loved by me is not my fault. She's incapable. I drove myself literally crazy trying over and over to try and convince her with actions and words that the rages and accusations from her were untrue. She convinced me I was a bad partner. But not matter what I did or said would make any difference.

There's a phrase in the book I mentioned on page 11 that I've been repeating over and over again to myself...

I'm not crazy, it's not my fault and I'm not alone.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 10:11:48 AM »

Is that book helpful even after it is over?
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »

Yes, it is.

I keep reliving this over and over.  I’m in, I’m out.  And I’m finally going to get the book and do the workbook.  Many members have been helped by the book both while in and AFTER their relationship has ended.

I also suffer from PTSD and keep going back for more.  That’s my illness.

Please take good care of yourself.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes 
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StillStuck

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 12:08:29 PM »

Thank you. I already had PTSD and depression related to combat trauma and depression related to childhood abuse and survivor’s guilt from two friends committing suicide. Those were things that got used against me.

After residential treatment, I started to feel like myself for a few weeks but it’s all come crashing back recently. It’s discouraging and I just feel so much guilt, like I could have and should been able to stop it all. And I feel used since I gave up all of myself and it still wasn’t enough.

I will get the book and the workbook.

Thank you.
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Pytagoras
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2019, 05:04:54 PM »

Hello StillStuck,

It's seems you've been trough a nightmare. I'm sorry you've to endure all that.

Here we all can relate to that.

My exBPDgf was a Waif type, needing rescue, acusing her ex of beating and mistreating her. Complaining about sexual abuses in her past.

I was feeling good before we dated, and then, soon after, i started to loose my self-esteem, my self-worth, my overall confidence, even sexually i didn't even knew what to do (she made me feel worthless). In the end, she discarded me for another guy, than recycle me, then discarded me for another. And that was it.

The rages, the acusations. Always saying that she was a great woman to her exbfs, but not to me, because i treated her badly, even with me doing everything she asked for and walking on eggshells.

BrokenSpokane and Gemsforeyes brought some important points and sugestions for recovery. It will take some time, taking into acount your previous traumas, that might have left you in a vunerable position, so it was easier to fall into the trap you fell.

The guilt is the main emotion that kept me hooked in my r/s since the begining. It was the guilt that made me recycle the r/s each time i did. And as time passed, I gradually became more attached to the r/s. You have to find some strategies in order to forgive yourself. you've been trough a lot. It's not easy. Go easy on yourself. And learn with all this experiences so you become better and stronger in the future. Each one of us do the best we can. And all this experiences in our lives are oportunities for that.

Take care my friend.
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BrokenSpokane
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 07:17:00 AM »

Is that book helpful even after it is over?
Absolutely. The more I drill it in my head that, "it's not my fault, I'm not crazy and I'm not alone", the better. It helps me get past the Bargaining stage of Loss. I kept going over and over the last few months of the relationship. If I would of said this, or if I would of done that, maybe we'd still be together. No, no matter what I would of said or did, the outcome would be the same.

I didn't cause it
I can't control it
I can't cure it

It's not me. It was her. She has a bottomless pit inside her that she's trying to fill. I can't fill that. I can give love, support, understanding. But all my efforts cannot fill that bottomless pit. So no matter what how I would of changed the past, the outcome would still be the same.

That's one aspect of it. The other is I had such low self-esteem and no self-worth because I believed everything she would yell, scream at me about. I took all the blame for her not feeling my love. No matter how I'd show and tell her, the result was still the same. I felt horrible and inadequate. I was suicidal.

The book and workbook helps me gain my self esteem and self worth again.

Lastly, the book and workbook helps me understand her disorder more so I can stop blaming myself. And, I can try and separate the person and the behavior. It's difficult for me to say this, after all that she's done to me. She's lied in court, she's stolen from me, she's blamed me, etc. But, deep down she's a good person. She can be the person that I fell in love with. She can be that beautiful, caring, patient, loving, intelligent, honest person that was before we lived together. But, she can only be that person if she gets help. But, I know she's back out there online looking for her next husband, playing the role of victim.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2019, 01:15:26 PM »

Thank you. The guilt is really what is still killing me, especially because I felt so crazy and out of control at the end.

I just ordered the book and workbook.
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BrokenSpokane
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2019, 03:48:58 PM »

Thank you. The guilt is really what is still killing me, especially because I felt so crazy and out of control at the end.
I know EXACTLY how you feel. I tell people I'll never use the phrase, 'I'm going crazy' again. It's because I literally know what it feels like to feel like I'm losing my mind and going crazy. I became someone I didn't recognize.

Remember: it's not your fault, you're not crazy and you're not alone
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StillStuck

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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 03:58:34 AM »

But I felt so crazy. I became manipulative and started doing all the things she’d done to me. How do I make sense of the lying and manipulation I did in response?
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BrokenSpokane
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 08:49:57 AM »

But I felt so crazy. I became manipulative and started doing all the things she’d done to me. How do I make sense of the lying and manipulation I did in response?
You don't. Crazy people make normal people do crazy things. Your reaction was of preservation of the relationship that you thought was genuine. It wasn't. So you reacted in a way that wasn't you.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2019, 08:51:44 AM »

No, it didn't make sense at all. It was torture. I stood and told her no and she hit me in the chest and yelled at me and I left. She continued to text me, threatening to burn herself and kill herself. I previously had two people very close to me commit suicide. For a lot of reasons -- some due to my own issues and some due to her repeatedly telling me I was the only reason she was alive, I felt responsible for her life. I felt trapped and she had been harming herself for weeks. After the fact, I had nightmares for years until I finally went through EMDR, which has helped which the emotional connection to that incident.

That part of the relationship is clear to me: she manipulated me and used me greatest fears and insecurities against me in a months-long campaign to wear me down. I don't know if she did it consciously or whether it was purely out of insecurity or fear or what. I made the decision to give in, but it was out of fear and coercion. The part that doesn't make sense to me is how I began to react months after that, after I had been through several cycles of adoration and rejection, after being isolated from friends and family. I felt torn between trying to run away with the woman and telling my wife everything to come clean. I was actually far more afraid of how my pwBPD would react when she found out I told my wife than I was about telling my wife. And eventually I did tell my everything, without being "caught" or confronted or anything. But I still feel immense guilt like I should have been able to stop it sooner. I just didn't.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2019, 08:58:36 AM »

You don't. Crazy people make normal people do crazy things. Your reaction was of preservation of the relationship that you thought was genuine. It wasn't. So you reacted in a way that wasn't you.

One of the things my therapist asked me when I was in residential treatment is why it is easier for me to believe her narrative that she is normal and I am crazy than it is for me to believe the BPD diagnosis I heard her therapist tell me. And I just don't know. I felt so out of control, and every time I sense at all that she might pop back into my life and reject me, I still do. I don't even want her back. I just want to feel like I can believe myself.
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BrokenSpokane
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 09:06:11 AM »

I don't even want her back. I just want to feel like I can believe myself.
I know what you mean. You are removed from the situation, it takes time. I'm doing therapy, writing, taking about it and it's helping. During the healing process I didn't want to lose the core of who I am... Trusting, caring, open, empathetic. I don't want to be guarded, afraid to open up, afraid to love again, afraid to stand up for myself. I don't think I've lost myself, but I've done a lot of work and continue to do so. You will believe yourself, you always have, it's just that you were in an impossible situation and you reacted in ways that wasn't you.
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confusedbybdp
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 09:53:05 AM »

 Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Hi StillStuck,

Thank you for writing and opening up to us.  We all rely on one another to make sense of these disordered relationships.

I just wanted to comment on your concern about reacting in a way that wasn't "you."  The exact same thing happened to me in the final months of the relationship.  I began to fall apart, scream (not me), and show a lot of anger (not me) when my uBPDbf was manipulating me or acting out.  He had been pressuring me for sex constantly.  We were very attracted to each other, and the sex was great, but he was hypersexual, in my opinion, and often talked about his sexual fantasies ALL DAY LONG.  Once, when we were in the car together, he told me about one sexual fantasy after another for THREE solid hours!  For the next three hour ride (our return trip) he upped it to fondling himself and asking me to pull over to give him a b---j--.  He also told me that he "came to bed angry" every night because we didn't have enough sex.  He wanted it at least 3 times a day.

I finally started screaming into the phone, "STOP PRESSURING ME FOR SEX!"  It was totally unlike me to do that, but I was completely out of control!

I believe that any of us can be pushed beyond the breaking point, and it helps us see that something is very wrong if we become completely unhinged.  That was what finally woke me up to the fact that I had to GET OUT of the relationship.  So, even though it's horrible to be pushed to that point and react in a way we don't even recognize, it can serve a purpose.
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2019, 07:56:43 AM »

I’ve been in therapy for 15 months, I’ve told my wife everything, I’ve been in a 2-month residential treatment program, but I still feel confused and guilty and like I’m falling apart.

This is a big step. And important step. Feel good about this. You have all our respect for doing it.

Of course its uncomfortable. You are changing years of patterns that you relied on in difficult times. It's OK to feel this way for a while. It's part of the recovery. Breaking down the old ways and building new ones.

PTSD and survivors guilt are tricky as they reside in your subconscious. It's one thing to  be in therapy for our behavior (CBT, DBT) and quiet another to normalize and bring peace to your subconscious. I have PTSD from several life threatening and extreme physical pain events in my life and the nightmares, although improving greatly,  have lingered for a decade.

Hang in there. It's one rung on he ladder at a time.

I didn't cause it
I can't control it
I can't cure it

This is an old AA saying and its powerful in that context - its speaks to the powerlessness one has over addiction. To me it's most  powerful when applied to ourselves. While I have never had an addiction, I have thought this about the nightmares for years. I accept that they are part of my life, they there is no magic bullet to make them go away, but with faith I can make it through.

Should we apply this to people in relationships? Maybe not. We are not powerless in relationships. We chose, we stay, we react. What we are powerless in is our ability to make people act or think the way we want them to.
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BrokenSpokane
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 10:42:34 AM »

I believe that any of us can be pushed beyond the breaking point, and it helps us see that something is very wrong if we become completely unhinged.  That was what finally woke me up to the fact that I had to GET OUT of the relationship.  So, even though it's horrible to be pushed to that point and react in a way we don't even recognize, it can serve a purpose.
Thank you for that. I thought I was going crazy when I reacted to her constant pushing beyond the boundaries I would set. She crashed my boundaries constantly. I would say, stop, I'm angry. She'd keep coming at me, pressuring, belittling, criticizing. I would snap and start yelling. I didn't know myself anymore.
I had to leave as well, mainly because of that. I would get caught in a vortex of no win scenarios. I'm glad you're removed from the situation
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Plucky1980
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2019, 03:21:57 AM »

One of the things my therapist asked me when I was in residential treatment is why it is easier for me to believe her narrative that she is normal and I am crazy than it is for me to believe the BPD diagnosis I heard her therapist tell me. And I just don't know. I felt so out of control, and every time I sense at all that she might pop back into my life and reject me, I still do. I don't even want her back. I just want to feel like I can believe myself.

I can relate to this, though in a slightly different context. I saw a therapist after the relationship ended in January. Explained everything, left nothing out, even things I thought I did wrong or could've done better.

She told me that my ex is likely borderline and if not she is pretty high on a scale towards being borderline, and that she could only be critical of me for staying in the relationship for as long as I did.

And I still have my doubts about myself. Because my ex would berate me for a lack of confidence (that she caused) and other attacks on my character (I didn't have 'get up and go' - whatever that means) I'd been conditioned to think and believe I was the sole problem in the relationship. It's hard to break that mindset. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and many other people telling you otherwise.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2019, 02:32:01 AM »

During the healing process I didn't want to lose the core of who I am... Trusting, caring, open, empathetic. I don't want to be guarded, afraid to open up, afraid to love again, afraid to stand up for myself. I don't think I've lost myself, but I've done a lot of work and continue to do so. You will believe yourself, you always have, it's just that you were in an impossible situation and you reacted in ways that wasn't you.

Thanks, I can definitely relate to this -- I have struggled with knowing how to set boundaries so I can be healthy and still remain caring, open, and empathetic. I am slowly getting there, I think, but self-doubt is still tough. I appreciate the vote of confidence, though, and I am feeling better this week than I have in quite some time.
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StillStuck

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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2019, 02:39:43 AM »


And I still have my doubts about myself. Because my ex would berate me for a lack of confidence (that she caused) and other attacks on my character (I didn't have 'get up and go' - whatever that means) I'd been conditioned to think and believe I was the sole problem in the relationship. It's hard to break that mindset. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and many other people telling you otherwise.

Man I feel this -- the last interaction I had with her in person involved her blaming me and yelling at me for everything that had gone wrong, and I was so confused. And the last time we communicated at all, she told me she now saw who I really was and that I was a despicable man. I've been to two therapists now who have both told me the same thing and my friends and family have been supportive, but it is still so hard to let go of that narrative. I felt so guilty and had so many regrets and thought that if I just could have been better or more that it would have been enough. Some days, I can realize that those are lies, but it is a constant struggle and I keep looking for a way to get some sort of validation. Hopefully, I'll figure out a way to validate myself and trust myself again; it is just a long road.
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 01:04:30 PM »

Dear Stillstuck-

I’m so sorry that you’re having such a hard time.  When we’re in relationships with seriously disordered people, I believe that over time we become a different person.  We change without knowing it, because we’re twisting ourselves inside out trying to meet unreasonable demands.  We’re trying to minimize the “threat” level.  That’s NOT a normal way to live.  And if we enter already having experienced any type of extreme trauma, then that trauma is exacerbated.  We live, exist in a heightened state, in reaction to this partner.  Maybe we become ill, without knowing.   Maybe we become secretive to “protect” someone.  We would NOT do this with malice.  We’ve stopped thinking with a clear mind.  Our clear mind has checked out.  But in lucid moments, our disgust for ourselves grows.  You DON’T deserve that hate, and you never did.  It becomes a no-win situation.

She demanded that you “save her life”.  She cruelly pounced on an emotional scar.  I believe she lied from the start.

I don’t have a large population sampling from which to draw; but the three people I’m closest to who have the strongest BPD/NPD traits - well the things I was told in the beginnings of these relationships were based on lies, not facts.  I was misled.  I attached based on lies - about who they were and what they’d experienced.  The narrative had been altered to draw me in... and I “bit”, hook, line and sinker...

So my friend, what I can offer for your healing is that You seek forgiveness from those who matter in your life - from those you genuinely wronged.  Your wife, and other family and friends.  You ask, Explain only what you can and you ask for forgiveness.  Maybe it takes them some time to forgive.  That’s okay.  You talk to your GOD, if you believe, and you pray for strength.

And then the really big thing, for me.  What I did, and do, to myself (I’m horribly codependent).  What I allowed my exH to do, to get away with.  What I allow my so-called friend to do, to get away with.  What I allowed, and continue to allow my uBPDbf to do, and get away with... I’m getting better.

So my battle has been to forgive myself.  To trust myself. 

And my friend, it appears that may be your battle, from what I can tell.  To forgive yourself?

You CAN do it.  It’s okay to forgive yourself.  You ARE good enough, valuable enough.  You are ENOUGH. 

Forgive yourself.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes


 
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