Do you struggle to foregive too?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi all.

So I am completing my 26th week (SIX MONTHS!) of separation/divorce from my BPD wife. Much of the PTSD symptoms have stopped. I have emerged from the F.O.G.so to speak. And while I still experience my melancholy moments, I can go back a rational place that helps me remember that much of what I experienced was her condition speaking, not her per se. That helps me understand that, in general, the abuse (verbal and physical and emotional) I lived was not my fault - even as I was not a perfect mate (after all, who is?)

What I feel I'm being called to look at now is forgiveness. Even tho I know that she can't hurt me any more I struggle to entertain forgiving her. (I have a cease and desist and she doesn't know where to find me unless she shows up again at my place of work - we live in a big enough city)

I understand forgiving someone in the sense that you don't live out past angry feelings in the present - in other words you let go of the toxic relationship.

BUT - I am curious. I am still angry and hurt at times. Thoughts from people who feel the same way?

[Rev]

Hi all.

So I am completing my 26th week (SIX MONTHS!) of separation/divorce from my BPD wife. Much of the PTSD symptoms have stopped. I have emerged from the F.O.G.so to speak. And while I still experience my melancholy moments, I can go back a rational place that helps me remember that much of what I experienced was her condition speaking, not her per se. That helps me understand that, in general, the abuse (verbal and physical and emotional) I lived was not my fault - even as I was not a perfect mate (after all, who is?)

What I feel I'm being called to look at now is forgiveness. Even tho I know that she can't hurt me any more I struggle to entertain forgiving her. (I have a cease and desist and she doesn't know where to find me unless she shows up again at my place of work - we live in a big enough city)

I understand forgiving someone in the sense that you don't live out past angry feelings in the present - in other words you let go of the toxic relationship.

BUT - I am curious. I am still angry and hurt at times. Thoughts from people who feel the same way?

[Mutt]

The angry feelings are going to be there and that’s normal. Are you worried about becoming bitter? Is that why you’re thinking about forgiveness?

I forgave my ex  but it took time because of all of the things she had done and the pain that I was feeling at the time.

Is there a part of you that feels guilty for not being able to forgive at this moment?

[Rev]

Hi Mutt,

I am more feeling worried that I will in fact become bitter - or some facet of that.

 I feel no guilt whatsoever... she did a real number on me in one sense and I know why I stayed and continue to work on that.  It is the darkness of the relationship that I would like to move on from.
Forgiveness is the only way I can think of. Bug man is it hard to get there.  I'm  really stung by what happened and yet I knew the signs were there. I tried to leave her two years ago and she charmed me back.  And that time I believed her. And then I married her.  We were together a total of five years - married 16 months.  She could be soo mean and violent at times.

I would just like to put her in the past and somehow I feel as if I should be there already. I guess that is not so reasonable.

Rev

[Mutt]

I would just like to put her in the past and somehow I feel as if I should be there already.

She would have to have done something pretty extreme to make you feel stung. That feeling of being stung  is when you trusted someone and they betrayed you.

I hear you on the darkness and being worried about being consumed by the anger. You’re aware enough to know that you don’t want to go there some people don’t even realize that they have become bitter from being wronged. You hare aware that’s a good thing.

Forgiveness is different for different people some people feel like they have to give forgiveness, others don’t feel that way. Healing is not linear everyone heals their own way. It’s not I e size fits all.

Do you feel like if you were able to forgive today that it would make the angry feelings go away?

[once removed]

Thoughts from people who feel the same way?

if it helps...

i am a big believer in forgiveness.

i am a big believer that its, like you say, more about letting go, and it isnt about excusing or giving a pass.

i struggled with it a lot in my recovery. as someone who is a big believer in forgiveness, it felt like it ought to be really central to my recovery.

ultimately, it really wasnt.

i did forgive her, but there wasnt some grand moment where i said all is forgiven, and i came to peace.

it came more as a result of detaching, and working the stages. i probably didnt even realize it when it did occur.

[Rev]

She would have to have done something pretty extreme to make you feel stung. That feeling of being stung  is when you trusted someone and they betrayed you.

It was very extreme. She found her biological brother about 11 months ago - and at the very least they had an emotional affair - although there are all the indications that it has gone further now.  The images of that are gone. But what I am hearing you say is that eventually these things will subside.

Which is basically what I am looking for. I do not expect to wake up in the morning all sunshine and the like - my life is pretty normal besides the ending of the relationship - so that's a good sign.

Being here helps, because there are not too many places that I can talk about this kind of thing. 

There are just some things I wished that I had not seen.  It is rather unsettling to watch someone literally unravel in front of you. I had been doing well and then three weeks ago she showed up at my place of work with personal effects (my childhood scrapbooks that my mother had made) that she had hidden from me when I moved out - something that I discovered after the fact.

AND... get this ... she shows up with her brother in tow.   

So maybe that's really it - I'm looking to forgive because it's a way to not BE angry because GETTING angry is not really an option. So yes - we're back to not wanting to become bitter.   I have my scrapbooks back... I will get some time distance from the event and let my friends love me.   

And this site is awesome.

[Rev]

ultimately, it really wasnt.

That is helpful...  I now I am making the decision that she doesn't get my energy right now. I don't need to forgive what happened. She lied to me big-bigtime and blamed me for all of it. 

So no wonder I am having trouble forgiving - there's no distance yet.

Thanks for this...

Rev

[Plucky1980]

if it helps...

i am a big believer in forgiveness.

i am a big believer that its, like you say, more about letting go, and it isnt about excusing or giving a pass.

i struggled with it a lot in my recovery. as someone who is a big believer in forgiveness, it felt like it ought to be really central to my recovery.

ultimately, it really wasnt.

i did forgive her, but there wasnt some grand moment where i said all is forgiven, and i came to peace.

it came more as a result of detaching, and working the stages. i probably didnt even realize it when it did occur.

Once,

I struggle with forgiveness. I have forgiven myself for staying in the relationship. Even forgave myself for getting into the relationship in the first place.

I cannot bring myself to forgive her though. My mind sees it as letting her off the hook, so to speak. It's hard to shift out of that.

It did take time for me to stop blaming and berating myself though. So I'm hopeful of one day forgiving her in the sense that you talk about, just letting go of the anger and resentment, not excusing the behaviour.

[Rev]

So I'm hopeful of one day forgiving her in the sense that you talk about, just letting go of the anger and resentment, not excusing the behaviour.

That's the key isn't it?  "One day".   How long have you been separated?  How long were you together. What happened? 

In the field of positive psychology, there's an understanding of forgiveness in the way that you are talking about - and that is what I think is reasonable.  It's all well and good to say that "it's the disorder talking" but what some of us have lived is in fact, I think almost unforgivable in the sense that there is no excuse for the behavior.  If she had shown any sense of true remorse (almost impossible for a BPD) then I think I would be having an easier time.

There was plenty of regret - but even then the hooks being put out were pretty manipulative.

As I write this, I am aware that her life is imploding right now... the relationship with the brother cannot last, we both work and live in a highly visible way so our separation was very public and so is her relationship to her brother.

I guess that part of what I struggle with is to resist the natural and unhealthy flashes of wanting vindication in some way - the smear campaign in private was pretty bad and I now have a cease and desist in place, which of course set off more BPD rage.

Hopefully that will be the end of the contact for now - giving me time to heal.

[Plucky1980]

That's the key isn't it?  "One day".   How long have you been separated?  How long were you together. What happened?  

Been separated since January, we were together for a year.

She kept splitting up with me, then like a fool I'd crawl back and ask for another chance, she made me think I was the sole problem. That I had a 'lack of confidence'. I did, but this can from her firstly splitting up with me during sex (not long after proclaiming I was the best sex she'd ever had) citing the fact that the sex was boring. Then she split up with me 2 weeks after I'd had a vasectomy (neither of us wanted any more children, so I didn't want her going through sterilisation) saying she didn't love me any more. A few weeks passed, and like a predictable idiot, I went back. Then, 2 hours after a hotel stay for our anniversary, 24 hours after saying how she loved me and that I was so important to her children, she split up with me for the final time. Didn't love me any more.

Within these periods were numerous threats to break up, almost continual periods of behaving irrationally (moving house frequently, unable to keep a job, money issues) to attacking my confidence (despite her behaviour being the cause, ultimately) and my parenting skills, and basically making me think and believe that I needed to change, to be with her.

The final insult was 20 minutes after breaking up with me, she was singing and smiling along to a song on the radio.

I could go into more detail but I don't want to bore you. Hopefully what I've rambled on about makes sense. My first post on this site does go into more detail.

[Plucky1980]

I also want retribution, like yourself. I want her to feel what I've felt. I want someone else to treat her like a toy, to be thrown away when I'm no longer of use. I'm aware it isn't a healthy way to think. But I hope wherever she is and whatever/whoever she's doing, that she's unhappy. I don't think she deserves happiness.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Rev-

If you’re by nature NOT a negative and bitter person, then I believe your true goal would be to not allow her behavior to change your nature.  Period.

The spots of bitterness and anger you feel may pop off in you for a time and that’s natural... this pain is pretty fresh, my friend.  You’re only 6 months out from a 5-year relationship.  And you didn’t know what you didn’t know.  Forgiving ourselves seems to be harder than forgiving others (for me, at least).

I was with my exH (NPD with BPD traits) for 19 years and we’ve been apart for 8 years now.  I spent a lot of time during that marriage in my “delusion of forgive and forget”; and I truly DID forgive him.  Every time.  With all the things he did over the years, he never once apologized; except for an almost apology after the night he was violent that ended the marriage.  And his violence was NOTHING compared to the cruelty he put me through for the next 8 months.

That exH is IRRELEVANT to my healing.  The only goal was to forgive myself.  I was so angry at myself and what I allowed him to do.  People like that, who do NOT ask for your forgiveness EVER have to become IRRELEVANT to your healing. 

And one day your wife will become irrelevant to your thinking.

I believe “active” forgiveness is more important for people who are IN your life, a part of your life.  Bitterness and holding grudges against people with whom you’re in any relationship is just plain bad, for both of you.  But since you’re hopefully truly detaching from your exW, irrelevance and indifference may work better (for me at least).  Maybe that equates to forgiveness?

I don’t smoke pot; but he’s like that little pot seed that I’ve seen people spit out the side of their mouths.  That’s how I truly feel about him now.

And now that I’m in a 6-year relationship with ANOTHER disordered man (GOD help me) I’ve realized I was back to my delusion of forgive and forget... and I want to exit with Grace... and quiet.

I’ve silently forgiven enough with no apologies.  I’m not bitter, just aware and conscious and healing.

You’ll get there, Rev.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Forgiveness]

Since my screen name is Forgiveness, I think I'll reply.

If your sweet lovable dog contracted rabies and bit you, would you forgive your dog? Yes, because she did not want or intend to get rabies. It's out of the dog's control. You can't live with a dog who has rabies but you can't really blame them either. Maybe it doesn't feel nice to compare humans to dogs but I'm a dog lover so for me it's a good analogy. The way I forgive is to notice that the person has an illness that is severe enough to be hurtful to others, but it's not something they asked for or wanted. This is how I forgive, and it helps me.

ETA:
It's OK to be angry! This is a rational response to what happened. You will not be angry forever. But you suppressed your anger for 5 years and acted like things didn't bother you. So now you have some catch-up anger. Just notice the anger and it will pass.  The anger arises to get you  out of a bad situation.  It has a purpose.

[Rev]

ETA: It's OK to be angry! This is a rational response to what happened. You will not be angry forever. But you suppressed your anger for 5 years and acted like things didn't bother you. So now you have some catch-up anger. Just notice the anger and it will pass.  The anger arises to get you  out of a bad situation.  It has a purpose. 

THAT is awesome ... I have been really trying to figure out what to do with it. But if you frame it as it having a purpose to push me out of what was a really ugly situation. And you know what... it did. Because in the early days, when I was thinking about how much I might have missed her, I had a list of things that she did and I would remember how bad it felt to be shamed and then I would get mad.

So I get it... eventually I will just leave the anger behind. WOW!

Thanks,

[Rev]

If you’re by nature NOT a negative and bitter person, then I believe your true goal would be to not allow her behavior to change your nature.  Period.

That exH is IRRELEVANT to my healing.  The only goal was to forgive myself.  I was so angry at myself and what I allowed him to do.  People like that, who do NOT ask for your forgiveness EVER have to become IRRELEVANT to your healing. 

So much of this is me... I was angry and ashamed at myself for pretending to so many people that the relationship was good, and loving and respectful.  And it wasn't. It was degrading and it was abusive.  Things got broken, I got hit and was called all kinds of names.  And I took it all and that need not be a source of shame but it was for a time.

I finally figured out that I married another version of my father which, silly as it might sound, was not something that had occurred to me because am hetero... and so inclined to think about whether or not I was married to my mother so to speak. My father was very cutting and insistent and pushed me hard but in a way that was always "for my benefit". 

Anyways, I'm starting to ramble... but thank you for this. 

Now ... did I read that you have gotten yourself into another difficult situation?  Are you okay?

[Mutt]

She found her biological brother about 11 months ago - and at the very least they had an emotional affair - although there are all the indications that it has gone further now.

I just want to point out that this is not going to go down well. BPD is a shamed based disorder and the fact that he’s family is going to trigger a gargantuan amount of shame.

[Rev]

I just want to point out that this is not going to go down well. BPD is a shamed based disorder and the fact that he’s family is going to trigger a gargantuan amount of shame.

I am told she is already cycling down... another reason I am trying to find forgiveness.   I had my suspicions that were confirmed when I discovered that our finances were spinning out of control because she was supporting him financially.  

Thanks for the extra context.  It helps me remember that I am in a safer place now.  She has no idea where I live, and my lawyer wrote a cease and desist to both of them. Next step is a restraining order.