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Author Topic: Tired of dealing with my BPD sister, any help? Part 2  (Read 1234 times)
MaxRoach

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« on: December 30, 2019, 08:05:41 AM »

Mod Note:  part 1 of this discussion is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336763.0;all

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share an update and perhaps discuss next steps. The update is that my dad has grudgingly accepted my NC status and has stopped engaging in arguments and blame games. I've spent the last 10 days at home with him, He will bring up the issue occasionally, but whenever it reaches a certain point, I walk away instead of trying to justify my position.

Without the anger from him, and with the time of my NC (7 months now), I'm also starting to be open to discussing the NC status with my sister and consider a way forward. I understand that it does bother my parents a lot, and I also see that practically, it can only go on for so long (parents will visit the city both of us live in, family functions/funerals etc).

I have a few questions:

- Am I being subtly pressurized by my dad on my NC status (him showing how sad he is, instead of anger)?
- What do I need to be wary of when I consider the NC status?
- How do I initiate a discussion with my sister?
- How do I manage my dad in this process? I want to enforce to him that this is my decision, and he cannot interfere or dictate it
- To what degree should I keep contact with my sister? I definitely want to take it slow and do not want to suddenly act as if nothing happened
- How do I communicate the issues with my sister, and establish that she can no longer do things she did in the past?

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 08:34:43 AM by Harri » Logged
Harri
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2019, 11:46:26 AM »

Hi.   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I am happy to read that your dad is letting up on the pressure.  That is great.  You may need to remind him at times that your relationship with your sister is for you to decide but that is to be expected.

Excerpt
Without the anger from him, and with the time of my NC (7 months now), I'm also starting to be open to discussing the NC status with my sister and consider a way forward. I understand that it does bother my parents a lot, and I also see that practically, it can only go on for so long (parents will visit the city both of us live in, family functions/funerals etc).
Discuss with who?  I am not sure your decision re: contact is something to be negotiated with another person though I may not understand.  (sorry, I can be literal at times)

I agree that NC is not practical if you want to participate in family functions, etc.  In that sense, it is very doable with limited contact or perhaps, more accurately termed it would be CC (controlled contact).

Excerpt
- Am I being subtly pressurized by my dad on my NC status (him showing how sad he is, instead of anger)?
Hard to say.  I think any parent would be sad to see their children not getting along and it won't necessarily matter who is the problem' child.  It *is* sad.

Excerpt
- What do I need to be wary of when I consider the NC status?
Our own expectations.  Knowing that NC is just a tool.  Knowing that there are natural consequences that go along with it that can be quite painful.

Excerpt
- How do I initiate a discussion with my sister?
What would you want to discuss?

Excerpt
- How do I manage my dad in this process? I want to enforce to him that this is my decision, and he cannot interfere or dictate it
Keep doing what you are doing now.   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
- To what degree should I keep contact with my sister? I definitely want to take it slow and do not want to suddenly act as if nothing happened
Do what feels comfortable for you.  Maybe start with an occasional family dinner.  You do not need to be hang out buddies or shopping buddies.  You get to decide.

Excerpt
- How do I communicate the issues with my sister, and establish that she can no longer do things she did in the past?
I would focus on things going forward rather than trying to discuss past incidents and problems.   Take each encounter as it comes and respond according to your values.  No need to discuss the past. 

Thoughts?
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MaxRoach

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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 11:47:03 PM »

Thank you for the reply Harri.

Excerpt
Discuss with who?  I am not sure your decision re: contact is something to be negotiated with another person though I may not understand.  (sorry, I can be literal at times)

I agree that NC is not practical if you want to participate in family functions, etc.  In that sense, it is very doable with limited contact or perhaps, more accurately termed it would be CC (controlled contact).

What I meant was. If I had to tell my sister that I'm willing to start maintaining some contact, how might I exactly do this? What do I need to communicate? What do I exactly say?

Excerpt
Our own expectations.  Knowing that NC is just a tool.  Knowing that there are natural consequences that go along with it that can be quite painful.

Could you explain a bit more?

Excerpt
What would you want to discuss?

Excerpt
I would focus on things going forward rather than trying to discuss past incidents and problems.   Take each encounter as it comes and respond according to your values.  No need to discuss the past. 

Well, I would like to tell her that her behavior in the past is not okay, and that I will not tolerate abuse from her. And that it is my life and she cannot control it.

But I also see value in not focusing too much in the past. How should I approach this?

Also, I'm still wary of a relationship where she expects me to meet her every week or so, or show up for obligations that I do not believe in (and that she fight with me or complain to my parents if I don't). I do not want that. I want to live my own life. I can meet her occasionally, whenever family demands it but that's it. Can I be explicit in communicating that?
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Harri
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 03:02:02 PM »

 Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Thanks for explaining. 

Excerpt
What I meant was. If I had to tell my sister that I'm willing to start maintaining some contact, how might I exactly do this? What do I need to communicate? What do I exactly say?


Excerpt
I'm still wary of a relationship where she expects me to meet her every week or so, or show up for obligations that I do not believe in (and that she fight with me or complain to my parents if I don't). I do not want that. I want to live my own life. I can meet her occasionally, whenever family demands it but that's it. Can I be explicit in communicating that?

I think the two quotes are related in terms of what you want to communicate with your sister.  I am not saying you can't give her a list and run down of all the past issues.  That is your choice.  I don't think that is the wise route to go however.  Setting the record straight, being able to give voice to our hurts, and setting limits are all natural reactions and wants and I understand.  I don't see how discussing past events and trying to set boundaries around them now is possible or how it will work out advantageously.  I found it best and got the most consistent results in terms of change by addressing events in the present as they came up and leaving the past in the past. 

Boundaries are best set through our actions and responses, not discussions, especially with people who have a history of denial, deflecting, projecting and high shame responses.  As the healthier person in the relationship, it is, unfortunately, often on us to be the leader in terms of setting tone, etc.   That is not the same as being a doormat or accepting abuse. 

Learning about better boundaries as a way to better communicate and relate with people rather than as a means of control and using tools like Don't JADE, SET, DEARMAN, etc will all help and will probably be necessary for you to be able to interact with your family as a whole.

Excerpt
Excerpt
Our own expectations.  Knowing that NC is just a tool.  Knowing that there are natural consequences that go along with it that can be quite painful.

Could you explain a bit more?
No contact can be strict but there are limits as you know.  NC often means there will be some contact when a family event happens or you need to choose to not participate which can be quite painful.  In that case, it is a 'natural consequence' of your decision to maintain strict NC.  It is unfair and it hurts but it is the result of our choice to go no contact.  Does that make sense?

It means knowing that people like your father will view you as the trouble maker and responding to that in healthier ways (don't JADE, SET, etc) and managing our own distress.

Another natural consequence is that when you begin to make changes in your role in the family, the family system will be disrupted and people will scramble to try to re-balance the system.  This is a normal process in a way and there will be push back.  It does not mean boundaries do not work.  It does not mean that we can't change our role or that we have no power.  It simply means that a dysfunctional system will seek balance in unhealthy ways.  We need to ride that through and be able to see us as separate from the opinions and beliefs our family members have about us and our actions (aka self-differentiation).

The same sort of natural consequences occur with LC and with maintaining the status quo. 
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2020, 10:56:47 AM »



Hi MaxRoach and Harri,
I am chiming in more with my own related question vs response.
I have been NC with my mom 10 months and the time it took me to feel empowered, comfortable in the NC is also about 10 months. At my last session with T, I realized I feel great about this progress, but if I were even thinking about going LC (which im not at this point) I feel entirely unprepared.


I don't see how discussing past events and trying to set boundaries around them now is possible or how it will work out advantageously.  I found it best and got the most consistent results in terms of change by addressing events in the present as they came up and leaving the past in the past. 

Boundaries are best set through our actions and responses, not discussions, especially with people who have a history of denial, deflecting, projecting and high shame responses.  As the healthier person in the relationship, it is, unfortunately, often on us to be the leader in terms of setting tone, etc.   That is not the same as being a doormat or accepting abuse. 

Learning about better boundaries as a way to better communicate and relate with people rather than as a means of control and using tools like Don't JADE, SET, DEARMAN, etc will all help and will probably be necessary for you to be able to interact with your family as a whole.



I quote this explanation from Harri bc I guess I hadn't even thought about not addressing things from the past. I think I need a breakdown/roleplay kind of.

Lets imagine I sent a letter as a way to break NC and then this led to a phone call.
What would I do?
Setting even the first boundary of what our communication style will be seems hard.
Follow me here in this thought, that in my head sounds sarcastic
"Hi Mom, I know its been a long time, but I want to invite you to xyz. " You may feel surprised by this invite, but I would like to have you there, and form a new relationship.
Her response? Something about we need to talk...
My response?

*Im thinking about branching off here and creating a post of my own, about strategy going from NC to LC but still wanted to let MaxRoach know that I also need to learn in this area.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2020, 12:24:04 PM »

Quote from:  Methuen
I quote this explanation from Harri bc I guess I hadn't even thought about not addressing things from the past.
Smiling (click to insert in post)  I mean that having a sit down or writing a letter outlining all of the past issues and setting conditions of what will or will not be tolerated generally does not work well. 

Trying to get someone with a personality disorder, one that is shame based, to admit to and accept a list of their prior behaviors as being 'abusive' or unhealthy or hurtful is highly unlikely.  It would be hard for a person without a personality disorder like BPD to do so.

Quote from:  Methuen
Setting even the first boundary of what our communication style will be seems hard.
Follow me here in this thought, that in my head sounds sarcastic
"Hi Mom, I know its been a long time, but I want to invite you to xyz. " You may feel surprised by this invite, but I would like to have you there, and form a new relationship.
Her response? Something about we need to talk...
My response?
I agree it sounds sarcastic.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Where do you go from there?  I am asking you.  I have no idea and was never really able to work that one out for my own situation.   How do you give someone a list of all their past sins against you and tell them they can no longer act that way and still have them be open and willing to hear you?  How do you set out a list of conditions for another person to follow and have them accept them and agree to them?  If someone were to approach me with a list like that?  I wouldn't react that well and I do not have a PD.  I have been in conversations where people place demands and attempt to set conditions and I walk away.   I won't participate and in turn I see that person as controlling, self-involved and manipulative... the very way I felt about my pwBPD.  It does not matter how kindly worded it may be.  I have also had people demand explanations, that I be explicit and agree to certain conditions and who attempt to establish what is fact in a situation and I walk away.  I see that person as having a temper tantrum and also being controlling.  I give them time to self sooth and then I keep them at a distance. 

Excerpt
"Hi Mom, I know its been a long time, but I want to invite you to xyz. " You may feel surprised by this invite, but I would like to have you there, and form a new relationship.
Her response? Something about we need to talk...
My response?
You know your mom best.  What would she be likely to say?  Let's work with that and then tell me how you would respond.
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MaxRoach

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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 09:59:55 PM »

Thanks, Harri.

This really hit it home for me.

Excerpt
I think the two quotes are related in terms of what you want to communicate with your sister.  I am not saying you can't give her a list and run down of all the past issues.  That is your choice.  I don't think that is the wise route to go however.  Setting the record straight, being able to give voice to our hurts, and setting limits are all natural reactions and wants and I understand.  I don't see how discussing past events and trying to set boundaries around them now is possible or how it will work out advantageously.  I found it best and got the most consistent results in terms of change by addressing events in the present as they came up and leaving the past in the past.

Boundaries are best set through our actions and responses, not discussions, especially with people who have a history of denial, deflecting, projecting and high shame responses.  As the healthier person in the relationship, it is, unfortunately, often on us to be the leader in terms of setting tone, etc.   That is not the same as being a doormat or accepting abuse. 

I think you are right. Like you said, if someone were to come with me with a list of my issues in the past, I wouldn't accept it. So unfair to accept my sister to accept it, given she's perhaps a bit more immature emotionally than me.

Honestly, my objective is not even to remind my sister of what she's done in the past. My real objective to just have peace in my life. Which means have limited contact with her, but enough that family demands go about smoothly. I'm planning to send her a really simple message. What do you think about it?

"Hi sister. I would like to forget the past and whatever happened between us. I know it's important for our parents that we have a relationship, so I'd like to give it a shot from a fresh perspective. Would you be open to this?"
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 08:17:29 PM »

Hi Max Roach!

Excerpt
My real objective to just have peace in my life. Which means have limited contact with her, but enough that family demands go about smoothly.
Peace is doable  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) to a point.  It takes a lot of work, patience and radical acceptance of what is and then using tools and self soothing  to get there though.  I think you are on the right track.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Sometimes, no matter what we do and how well we use the tools, there can be a dysregulation or we can be having a bad day and things get to us.  It is all part of the process and unfortunately, it does go hand in hand with having a 'challenging family situation'.

Excerpt
I'm planning to send her a really simple message. What do you think about it?
"Hi sister. I would like to forget the past and whatever happened between us. I know it's important for our parents that we have a relationship, so I'd like to give it a shot from a fresh perspective. Would you be open to this?"
I would simply this even more and simply say "Hi sis.  Would you like to get together with me and our parents for dinner sometimes this month?" and leave it at that.  There are too many targets in what you wrote.  Referring to the past and 'whatever happened' and how it is important to your parents that you both have a relationship opens up some pretty tough and sensitive areas.  Why even go there?  If she respond with a "why" to your invite, you can say "I want to have dinner with everyone together as I think it is important as you all mean a lot to me"  (Okay, I took some liberties there assuming that is true).  If she comes back with something grumpy, you can reply "okay, maybe next month then" and leave it alone.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 09:14:18 PM by Harri » Logged

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MaxRoach

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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2020, 03:28:52 AM »

Hi

I actually ended up sending the message I wrote since I didn't check your reply before. I got a reply saying she would like to do the same. My dad was very happy, but I'm starting to get messages from both every few days about when I will actually meet her. I want to meet her when I want to, without the pressure.

How do I do this without getting back into the same trap of mounting expectations
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2020, 12:57:18 PM »

Thought I’ll give an update. After being NC with my sister for 8 months, I resumed contact. It’s been very limited and very manageable and haven’t faced any pressure from my parents so far.

However the pressure has increased in the last week or so. I was told by my parents to message my sister more often as she is feeling lonely (even though she lives with her husband). I agreed to do this (mistake!) and now new demands have started. My dad wants me to not just message her but pamper her as she feels lonely for some reason. I didn’t know what to reply back and I see the pressure increasing. The more I listen to what my parents tell me to do the more they demand. How should I nip this in the bud?
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2020, 11:06:39 PM »

Hi Max!  wow, it sounds like you have done very well!

I would say no to your parents.   something like "I am not comfortable doing that" or "No thank you.  I know you are concerned.  I am happy with the way things are right now".

As with your sister, they will probably push back.  Put it back on them.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2020, 01:28:40 AM »

Hi Harri, thanks for the help. Could I ask? What do you mean by “put it on them”?
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2020, 08:59:07 AM »

I'll add another update. As predicted, the pressure is mounting from my father.

I had a very rough day (and 2 weeks to be honest), dealing with some legal stuff. He was nice to me throughout the day, and we did a few calls where he was empathetic. However, on our last call, he brought up the topic of my sister.

He asked me as a casual remark to "call her once a while." I had prepared for this and told him that he can't control what our relationship would look like. And that he asked me to start messaging her 2 weeks back, and now this, and if I did this, it would be another request.

He started getting defensive and start making remarks such as, "Life is too short, it'll go away if you don't mend your relationship" and "You should be checking in with her, she's your sister" and "she's very lonely in a time like this" (even though she's living with her husband!). I told him that I should not be getting this pressure, as I'm the only one whose been maintaining contact (based on his request) and he told me I shouldn't' keep count of who messaged who.

I ended up saying that it's not about keeping count, but that he can't control this relationship, just like I can't control the relationship he has with his mother (it's a horrendous relationship, and they verbally and physically abuse each other on a constant basis). He made some bullPLEASE READ remark like "My relationship with your mother is not as bad as the relationship you've kept with your sister."

At that point, I said I don't want to discuss this and cut the phone. But I'm fuming that:

- He's started pressuring out of nowhere (I think it's 'cos I listened to his initial request of messaging my sister to see how she's doing)
- The pressure has started since I moved in with my girlfriend during my pandemic; my sister is always uncomfortable when I spend time with my girlfriend and I feel that's what driving her to complain to my dad, who is then bringing it onto me
- He knows I'm physically and mentally exhausted, but he won't let this go
- I can feel another wave of pressure coming
- He doesn't see that I've already done a big deal by initiating contact with her; why is he always asking for more?

I'm trying to maintain boundaries, but it's hard and I often start defending myself. And I know if I maintain them for a bit, I'll be on the receiving end of a lot of nasty things from him (which I need to walk away from like I did when I was NC with her, but he says really horrible things!)

Help would be appreciated! I'm a bit down since I thought I had already established boundaries after much pain in the last 8 months but it seems he's testing them again.
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2020, 11:25:28 AM »

Hi Max,

It sounds to me like you need to set a boundary with your dad.  Do you see the Triangulation going on?  The issues between you and your sister are between you and your sister, he does not need to be jumping into something that has nothing to do with him.

More on triangulation...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0

That said when one member of a dysfunctional family system starts to change behaviors (like you are doing  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)), everyone else gets uncomfortable and there is pressure (like your dad is doing) to move things back to the dysfunctional system that was more comfortable (for him).

For you the task is to become more comfortable with his (and your sister's ) discomfort.  Know that what you are doing is about taking care of you and not about hurting them (you are not selfish - you are doing self-care).

I don't know your full story and maybe you have already done this, but I would would just tell your dad that the issues between you and your sister are between she and you and you will no longer discuss the topic with him. And then don't. (You can also skip the announcing your boundary and just act on it.) You will likely have to remind him until he gets the message.  Also know that he will likely continue to discuss it with your sister but that is between them.  Also a reminder here not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  I'm sorry dad, I don't want to talk about sister, is a complete sentence no need to elaborate.

Hang in there,
Panda39
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2020, 09:00:52 PM »

Thanks for the reply, Panda. I have been sharing my full story on this message board (you can see Part 1) and I'm familiar with the concepts you've mentioned here.

I've already practiced them and been through a process where I went NC with my sister, faced a lost of resistance from my father, got into arguments and attacks from him, and then had to assert boundaries without Jadeing. Eventually, he calmed down and opened up limited contact with my sister based on my own terms.

However, since the past 2-3 weeks, it seems by dad has forgotten all that, and the boundaries I've set have been lost (perhaps 'cos he's been trying to test my boundaries with small suggestions such as messaging my sister, and I've been listening).
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 09:08:51 PM »

Any help?
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2020, 06:51:28 PM »

Hi Max!

Excerpt
I'm trying to maintain boundaries, but it's hard and I often start defending myself. And I know if I maintain them for a bit, I'll be on the receiving end of a lot of nasty things from him (which I need to walk away from like I did when I was NC with her, but he says really horrible things!)

Help would be appreciated! I'm a bit down since I thought I had already established boundaries after much pain in the last 8 months but it seems he's testing them again.

In general, lots of people will test your boundaries.  Sometimes deliberately to test you but more often then not, I think they are simply falling back into old patterns and really bad coping skills.  Usually people need to be reminded with things like "Dad, we have talked about this before, and I need you to stop trying to interfere".  Stop, end of sentence.

As you know, boundaries are about you.  They are determined by and set by you and they govern your behavior.  So you will need to remind him.  We can't expect others who have crappy boundaries, who take on the role of peace keeper and rescuer to not revert to their own bad behaviors.  We especially can't expect pwBPD to do so.  Most healthy people will get it once, maybe twice.  Sometimes a hard look, a "knock it off" or a "I don't like when you do that" is needed.  Then it is up to you to act on your boundary.  He will respond however he responds.  

Earlier I said "Put it back on him" and this is the sort of thing I mean.  You take care of your side of the street and he takes care of his (including his emotions and his words and actions).  When/if he demonstrates he can not or will not do that, you need to enforce your boundary.

With healthy people, once is usually enough.  If they need more than that, or need constant reeling in, that tells you something about them.
 
Excerpt
Eventually, he calmed down and opened up limited contact with my sister based on my own terms.
You did it before and you can do it again, this time knowing you can't let up.  That does not mean you have to stay on edge all the time, just be aware he reverts back to old patterns (regardless of why) and respond accordingly.  

Does that help?

Edited to add:  It sound like with both your dad and sister, a once and done approach with them regarding boundaries is not going to work So a lather, rinse,repeat as necessary (every single time) approach is necessary.
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2020, 03:36:40 AM »

Thanks Harri. I guess the trick is to be a bit Stoic about not. Not get upset that the boundaries need to be re-established, just accept things as they are and do what's needed for my own health.

I guess my big fear is my father will not love me if I keep asserting these boundaries. That's something I need to get.
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2020, 03:17:50 PM »

Hi Max.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

The fear of losing a parents love is quite strong and hard to deal with isn't it?  I am not sure how to help specifically with that other than to say that as you build a stronger core self, confidence in who you are and your ability to deal with any hurts will come.  When I say ability to deal with the hurts, I don't mean it won't hurt.  Rather I mean knowing that the hurt is something you can survive and manage and that setting boundaries, as a part of building an autonomous self, is vital for all aspects of your life. 

With many of our parents, their love is conditional.  That says more about them and who they are (as a person and how ill they are) than anything to do with our worth, our value or our lovability. 

Excerpt
I guess the trick is to be a bit Stoic about not. Not get upset that the boundaries need to be re-established, just accept things as they are and do what's needed for my own health.
Yes, you ned to do what is important for your own health and you need to do what is in line with your personal values. 

As for being stoic and not getting upset... is that really a goal?  I can see not sharing things if your parent is unable to keep things private (sounds like it) but to turn your emotions off and stunt them?  Maybe I am being too literal here but when I read what I quoted from you, it seems more like burying your hurt and putting on a facade that denies who you are to *you*.  Shutting down, stifling feelings and burying them only hurts you.  So if that is what you mean, let's talk some more.  If that is not what you mean, I apologize and ask that you try to re-word it for my literal brain.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

What do you think of saying something like this the next time your dad starts to push:  "Dad, I know you care and I care about you too.  I have to tell you though that when you try to force the issue with sister, I just want to pull away more and I do not want to do that so I need you to stop interfering/pressuring/etc."

Thoughts?
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MaxRoach

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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 07:08:32 AM »

Thanks for the generous response, Harri.

Excerpt
The fear of losing a parents love is quite strong and hard to deal with isn't it?  I am not sure how to help specifically with that other than to say that as you build a stronger core self, confidence in who you are and your ability to deal with any hurts will come.  When I say ability to deal with the hurts, I don't mean it won't hurt.  Rather I mean knowing that the hurt is something you can survive and manage and that setting boundaries, as a part of building an autonomous self, is vital for all aspects of your life.

With many of our parents, their love is conditional.  That says more about them and who they are (as a person and how ill they are) than anything to do with our worth, our value or our lovability. 

Yes it is hard, though to be honest, I've taken therapy for several years, and I've come to see the conditionality of my parents and their irrationality. So I'm very confident and comfortable in seeing my identify as separate from their approval. More than anything, my dad's constant discussion and push for my sister is annoying and just adds unnecessary stress to my otherwise very peaceful life.

Excerpt
Yes, you ned to do what is important for your own health and you need to do what is in line with your personal values.

As for being stoic and not getting upset... is that really a goal?  I can see not sharing things if your parent is unable to keep things private (sounds like it) but to turn your emotions off and stunt them?  Maybe I am being too literal here but when I read what I quoted from you, it seems more like burying your hurt and putting on a facade that denies who you are to *you*.  Shutting down, stifling feelings and burying them only hurts you.  So if that is what you mean, let's talk some more.  If that is not what you mean, I apologize and ask that you try to re-word it for my literal brain. 

Haha, I did not mean it literally in the sense that I bury how I feel. I'm very angry about this particular aspect of my dad, and quite hurt by it as well. I'm comfortable owning that and feeling that. Really, my only need here is to figure out tactically how to deal with this, more than anything.

Excerpt
What do you think of saying something like this the next time your dad starts to push:  "Dad, I know you care and I care about you too.  I have to tell you though that when you try to force the issue with sister, I just want to pull away more and I do not want to do that so I need you to stop interfering/pressuring/etc."

This is how I ended the conversation the last time he brought it up. Now, it's been 2-3 weeks and he hasn't touched upon the subject. I'm happy to say this again.

But it seems like he's trying to use my mother now to pressurise me. My mother tells me that he's been blaming her for not telling me off and not getting me to call my sister. Of course, it seems my mother herself isn't establishing boundaries and passing this burden onto me. She's told me she'll fake scream at me so that he gets offer her back.

Overall, I'm fine with all this - I just need the tools and tactics to deal with it and manage my anger when these things happen. My dad is relentless and it's annoying. And it upsets me that my mom is being blamed. I wish they'd just lay off and accept that I will maintain an independent relationship with my sister as per my comfort levels.
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2020, 12:01:39 PM »

Hi Max!   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
Really, my only need here is to figure out tactically how to deal with this, more than anything.


Excerpt
But it seems like he's trying to use my mother now to pressurise me. My mother tells me that he's been blaming her for not telling me off and not getting me to call my sister. Of course, it seems my mother herself isn't establishing boundaries and passing this burden onto me. She's told me she'll fake scream at me so that he gets offer her back.
You are right, you mom is not establishing boundaries and in response to your dad's triangulation, she is doing a bit of the same with you.

the fake screaming bit?  I have heard that some little kids will say that to a family member they love but a parent gets upset if they show affection to them.  I know that is not helpful.  It is where my mind went when I read this part though.  I would say, and I am not sure if this is exactly the right thing to do, but (!) I would say something like "Mom, that situation is between you and dad, please leave me out of it.  And BTW, if you scream at me, I will hang up."   Are you familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle?  Can't remember if we have given you the link before.  The key is for you to step to the center or try to change the drama triangle to a winners triangle.

Excerpt
Overall, I'm fine with all this - I just need the tools and tactics to deal with it and manage my anger when these things happen. My dad is relentless and it's annoying. And it upsets me that my mom is being blamed. I wish they'd just lay off and accept that I will maintain an independent relationship with my sister as per my comfort levels.
Your mom being blamed is the result of her relationship with your father.  Having said that, I know what it is like to have others be punished or be split black as a result of my actions and choices so I feel for you.   It sucks to be honest. 

Does understanding the behavior of your mom and dad help with the anger?   My mother was relentless in trying to force me to do things and I remember the feeling quite well.  Like I said above, I am not sure that what I said above will help if you say it or a variation to your mom.  Sometimes though, being short, direct and firm but kind is the best way to go... and then go scream in a pillow or something.   She can yell at you but you do not have to listen to it.  She gets to choose her actions, healthy or not, just like you do.  She also gets to manage her own feelings.

It is a tough situation all around though.  sometimes there are no good answers.
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2020, 03:04:01 AM »

Thanks Hari, my dad is being relentless.

He just called casually to chit chat, then suddenly brought up my sister and started screaming at me. He wants me to order her food online as her income has stopped during the pandemic. He started saying that she's my sister, not an enemy and how can I not care about her? He started screaming more, and I just said you're screaming, so I'm cutting. And I hung up.

I guess this is the best I can do?
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2020, 10:51:34 AM »

I think you did just the right thing in that situation.  You do not have to sit there and be verbally abused by your dad.  You can't control him (heck in that moment he can't control himself).  We can only control what we do.  Setting the boundary that you would not sit there and be screamed at is what you could do in that moment.  It isn't about punishing him, but is about protecting yourself.

I'm sorry that happened but, nice job handling it. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Panda39
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2020, 08:03:55 PM »

Thanks Panda. What do I do now? Call him or wait for him to cool down and call?

Hate these games!
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Harri
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2020, 08:18:50 PM »

Hi Max.  Panda is right.  You do not have to sit there and listen to him yell at and berate you.  I might say "Dad, please stop yelling at me and trying to interfere with my relationship with my sister.  I want to talk with you but I can't listen to you yelling at me so I am going to hang up now.  We can talk again later" or some, hopefully shorter and more casual, version of that.

I do not mean to imply you said anything wrong.  I think you did well.  It will take practice and time to get him used to hearing you end a conversation and set boundaries so keep doing it and we can fine tune as you go along.

As for what to do next, I suggest you let him before a while.  He will call when he is ready.  If he is calm and is not interfering, talk with him.  If he yells and gives orders about your sister, end the conversation.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is not a game though.  This is you taking care of you and setting boundaries in a way that is loving and respectful to you both.    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) 

Well done Max!
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Harri
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2020, 11:06:59 AM »

Staff only

This thread has neared the post limit and has been split and locked to allow for further discussion.  The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=345129.msg13114299#msg13114299

Thank you.
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