Do you think this is worth saving?

[Reggie55]

Hi everyone,

First of all, thanks for reading.  I'll try to keep this relatively short.

I met a girl and we both fell for each other pretty quickly -- but not unreasonably so IMHO.  After a couple of months of steady dating, we spent the weekend together at a nice hotel/casino.  Things went well so a month later we went to Hawaii for two weeks.  Even though I personally hated the weather (much too humid), in retrospect those were two of the best weeks of my entire life.  We got along so well, we held hands all the time, etc.

By that time, we were pretty much living together -- and that's when strange things started to happen.  Classic push/pull, very moody, often negative, etc.  She was dealing with a lot of stress during that period so I figured I'd be patient and things would get better.

But things kept getting worse.  During our first major fight, she screamed, threw an object on the floor and threatened to throw something on me as well.  I made a mistake and apologized profusely but she just kept saying I had killed the relationship.  While she was packing her things, she said I hurt her and that she would hurt me much more in return -- and that I had to cut her a check to pay for a month's rent.  About an hour later, she was sobbing and apologizing.  We had sex and went to sleep.

While I loved her very much, by that time I started having doubts that she was long term relationship material.  Raising a family is stressful and I couldn't imagine having kids with a woman who acts so weirdly under stress.

More push and pull -- until one day she decides to move out temporarily.  That was the first time I saw her "dark side".  She said mean things to me that came out of nowhere (we weren't even fighting).  I figured that was game over -- but just before leaving we had a really emotional moment (she had flipped from bad to loving in a fraction of a second).

During that time, she stayed at a student dorm.  We still had cordial conversations every day and admitted that we missed one another.  Two weeks later, she comes back.  That's when things turned really ugly.

While I was hoping we'd take it easy for a couple of weeks, she wrote me a love letter and was putting pressure on me to resume our relationship.  I still loved her but the constant push and pull had gotten the better of me -- not to mention her bizarre and aggressive ways.

On our final night, she sent a suicide note, was cutting herself and said she would kill herself when I go to bed.  She said I deserved to have a suicide in my home because I had broken her heart.  In retrospect, I think she was hoping I'd say I love her, take her in my arms, etc.  But I was panicking and so afraid she'd do something stupid.  She was drunk and unstable.

I ended up calling the police.  Her mother came to pick her up.  She sent me nasty notes to tell me I was the worst human on the planet.  And then she blackmailed me.  Twice.

In spite of all of the trouble, I still have feelings for her.  Crazy, I know.  I still hope she'll come back to her senses and remember how we had such a positive relationship.  Whether the romance survives or not, I can't believe the girl I loved so much is gone because of a mental health crisis.

If you were in my shoes, would you have any hope of this person becoming the nice person that I once knew ever again?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Hi there, Reggie!

Sounds like you've really experienced the BPD whirlwind. I'm sorry. Bewildering, isn't it?

If you were in my shoes, would you have any hope of this person becoming the nice person that I once knew ever again?

That really depends. Is she getting serious, intensive therapy? Is she committed to it and to changing and getting better? If so, then, yes, there is some hope (though it's not guaranteed). If she doesn't get help, then while you may see the girl you first fell for again, the cycle is likely to repeat itself. BPD doesn't just go away, unfortunately.

[Reggie55]

Hi Ozzie,

Bewildering would be an understatement.  I thought I'd met all kinds of characters in my lifetime but was totally blindsided by this.

She's not in therapy, no.  When she is lucid, she admits there's something wrong with her -- but most of the time she thinks I'm the one who needs help.

When she split black on me, she sent a big rant which was petrifying -- I had never witnessed anyone using projection like that!

I guess things don't look too great...

[Steps31]

I don't think you did the wrong thing by calling the police.
You have to take threats seriously for her safety and yours, and they will know that threatening life and death is not a game...

[once removed]

I made a mistake and apologized profusely but she just kept saying I had killed the relationship. 

what happened?

[Reggie55]

I don't think you did the wrong thing by calling the police.
You have to take threats seriously for her safety and yours, and they will know that threatening life and death is not a game...

Thanks for the support.  I'm no expert and this was the first time that someone threatened suicide in front of me.  I relied on a friend who had gone through a similar situation with his sister -- and he was adamant I should call the police.

In checking with most professional resources, it appears I did the right thing.  Health care professionals all recommend to call the authorities whether you think the person is being serious or not.  She was drunk and unstable.  Who knows what could've happened next.

[Reggie55]

what happened?

We were somewhat "forced" to move in together quickly because her previous line of work was not compatible with a healthy/traditional relationship.

During one of her push/pull episodes, I believed it was the end and out of despair called my friends and confided in them.

[Ozzie101]

During one of her push/pull episodes, I believed it was the end and out of despair called my friends and confided in them.

I've been there. Still dealing with the fall-out, actually. How did they respond?

And, I agree with Steps. You did the right thing in calling the police -- even if she won't/can't see that.

If she doesn't get therapy -- serious, dedicated therapy geared to BPD -- then there is little chance of the situation improving. As I said, while she may become the girl you knew, the chances are the cycle will continue. That said, it is possible for things to improve and, should the relationship resume, there are things you can do to, if not make it better, at least not make it worse. I'd recommend reading around this site. There are a lot of helpful threads and articles (which are tabbed at the top of the page). It's a lot to sort through so if you want or need guidance, please ask!

How are you holding up?

[Reggie55]

I've been there. Still dealing with the fall-out, actually. How did they respond?

And, I agree with Steps. You did the right thing in calling the police -- even if she won't/can't see that.

If she doesn't get therapy -- serious, dedicated therapy geared to BPD -- then there is little chance of the situation improving. As I said, while she may become the girl you knew, the chances are the cycle will continue. That said, it is possible for things to improve and, should the relationship resume, there are things you can do to, if not make it better, at least not make it worse. I'd recommend reading around this site. There are a lot of helpful threads and articles (which are tabbed at the top of the page). It's a lot to sort through so if you want or need guidance, please ask!

How are you holding up?

Thanks so much for your support, Ozzie.

My friends and family have been very patient and supportive.  As always, there are the "hard core" supporters ( those who say "forget that crazy ex") and those who are more understanding of mental illness (and tend to be more forgiving).  But they're all long time friends and people who I trust 100%.  Three of my fairly close friends actually have a sibling with diagnosed BPD.

I waited as long as I reasonably could before calling the authorities.  I know her suicidal behaviour was her way of asking me to stay (and I would've stayed had we had a reasonable conversation) but I was so scared.  Imagine the person you love looking miserable, being drunk, sharpening their knife and saying things like "let's make sure this is sharp so it hurts a little less".  And then they cut their forearms and say "I'll do this at your house because you broke my heart and you deserve this".

It has been six weeks now and I'm still in shock.  I can't believe that was the last time I saw the woman I cherished so much.

[once removed]

every relationship has what is called a "honeymoon" period. we use the term a lot here, but it is not unique to BPD.

its a stage where both partners are at their best, and put their best foot forward. it can last, typically 3 months, but sometimes a year, even more.

If you were in my shoes, would you have any hope of this person becoming the nice person that I once knew ever again?

i think if your question is really "could everything go back to being perfect again", the answer is no. that would be true in any relationship. but being in a relationship with someone with BPD traits, there tends to be less volatility in those early stages. after those few months, the two of you experienced a huge amount of volatility.

it doesnt sound like theres trust on either side. youve also seen some pretty serious behavior on her end, and i agree with Ozzie101 that not only is that unlikely to dissipate, but theres not a ton of control you have over that. the stage is somewhat set.

so i dont know if the question is would she return to the nice person, or would the relationship be perfect. i dont think the question is whether its worth saving.

the question id ask you is what would a healthier relationship look like between the two of you, knowing it would be in a different stage, knowing that it would have huge obstacles. what would you do differently? do you think that would get it to a place where it was enough for you if nothing changed on her end?

[Reggie55]

Thank you for your post, once removed.

it doesnt sound like theres trust on either side. youve also seen some pretty serious behavior on her end, and i agree with Ozzie101 that not only is that unlikely to dissipate, but theres not a ton of control you have over that. the stage is somewhat set.

Yes I have seen some pretty serious behaviour on her part -- and I had to push my own limits several times.  If I were dealing with a male friend, there's no chance I would ever tolerate it.

the question id ask you is what would a healthier relationship look like between the two of you, knowing it would be in a different stage, knowing that it would have huge obstacles. what would you do differently? do you think that would get it to a place where it was enough for you if nothing changed on her end?

Even before our final dramatic exit, I knew this wouldn't work out unless we had truly honest conversations and agreed on a treatment plan.  And even at that, it would require a huge investment and dedication on our part.

If nothing changed on her end, we would not be able to sustain our relationship.  I have been fairly traumatized by the whole ordeal and would not be able to repeatedly go through the same scenario again.

I can live with the fact that we may no longer be a couple -- ever.  But I find it really difficult that someone who I tried to love the best I could now thinks I'm a monster who tried to get rid of her by calling the cops and kicking her out.  I called the cops and got her mom involved because I trusted she wouldn't do anything silly in their presence.

Although I'm not a religious person, I still pray every day for her to get better.  I have a really hard time accepting that the lovely girl who patiently tried to teach me how to swim turned into a mean and vindictive person.  I feel like I don't know who she is anymore.

[Reggie55]

I went to the gym today and couldn't help thinking of when my ex came to the gym with me.

She had recently moved in and we were happy.  After a particularly draining training session, her legs were killing her and she was unable to walk down the stairs -- so she proceeded to go backwards.  We had such a silly laugh that I still remember to this day.

With all the drama, I forgot that she had such a wicked sense of humour.  We had so much fun with such ridiculous situations.

I can't believe that super funny girl has blackmailed me and how she has become so mean.

Who is my ex?  The funny girl or the mean blackmailer?  Or both?

Thankfully work is going well so I keep my head out of the water.

[Ozzie101]

It's really hard, struggling with those things: the dichotomy.

But, likely, yes, she is both. Difficult to reconcile, but there it is. And, in all likelihood, she was/is being genuine with you in each of those personas. It's all part of the BPD rainbow.

[SinisterComplex]

So I will say no one can say which way to go. That is impossible for anyone to tell you. What I would offer up...what do you want? Are you willing to endure the paradoxical nature of her disorder? Is that what you think you deserve? Do you not think you will or can do better?

In essence, here is what I am getting at here. I am probing you to vent it all out and then provide the pro's and con's list yourself here. If you can provide the pro's and con's and you get everything down in written word and you can see it all for yourself then can analyze everything yourself and determine what is the best course of action for you to take for YOU.

I personally support you to do the best thing you can do for you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Reggie55]

Ozzie and SC, thank you for your help and support.

I just went to my therapist and she said that BPD or not, what she did wasn't cool.

Like Ozzie mentioned, her bad behaviour is part of her personnality.  It's unfortunate that her personnality is the result of past abuse but I should not be the one to pay for her misfortunes.

I did my very best to give her very good living conditions.  I can't do any more than that.

[once removed]

I can live with the fact that we may no longer be a couple -- ever.  But I find it really difficult that someone who I tried to love the best I could now thinks I'm a monster who tried to get rid of her by calling the cops and kicking her out.  I called the cops and got her mom involved because I trusted she wouldn't do anything silly in their presence.

you know, i can really relate to this. my ex and i had what started as an amicable breakup and went south fast. we never really spoke again, and that was really hard to imagine given we were together for three years and been friends for three years before that.

if you think that that is your primary concern, i would consider this:

you cant know for certain, but for most people, in most cases, the ice thaws eventually. she probably was embarrassed by having the police called on her. she may even have taken it as something vindictive. but eventually, when the ice thaws, we are better able to see another persons actions in a way that isnt colored by our hurt at/from the time.

i dont hold the same ill will i held for my ex, even for some stuff she did that was downright nasty. i dont think that she does either.

its hard, really hard, to end a relationship that started as loving, on such a bad note. your feelings surrounding the breakup will change. i will bet you, so will hers. neither of you may ever know it, or maybe you will, but the permanence of such a bad ending really does not have to last forever.

[Reggie55]

So I will say no one can say which way to go. That is impossible for anyone to tell you. What I would offer up...what do you want? Are you willing to endure the paradoxical nature of her disorder? Is that what you think you deserve? Do you not think you will or can do better?

You know, I'm a patient guy and thought I could endure the ups and downs of a partner with mental health challenges.  My parents weren't exactly "perfect" and I have plenty of "imperfect" friends as well.  I was totally not prepared for what I went through.

Of course I think I deserve a better partner, someone who is actually capable of loving me and supporting me.  But I really wanted to believe that, in spite of her history and challenges, we could make the distance.

In essence, here is what I am getting at here. I am probing you to vent it all out and then provide the pro's and con's list yourself here. If you can provide the pro's and con's and you get everything down in written word and you can see it all for yourself then can analyze everything yourself and determine what is the best course of action for you to take for YOU.

The list of pros would be quite short.  I think of the good times we had and like a drug I missed them dearly.  For the first 3-4 months, we wouldn't go anywhere without holding hands.  She would snuggle against me all the time.  Just writing about it makes me relive those times.  I miss her sense of humour, her laughter.

On the flip side, in order to be with her I would have to abandon my dreams, my life, my everything.

When she was lucid (usually after a crisis), she'd tell me she needs to save me from herself (which seems accurate).  But when she's mad, she says I'm the one who needs help.  I may need help in several areas of my life -- but I know I was a loving, supportive and patient partner to her.  I stayed for as long as I reasonably could.

The dream is dying.  It hurts.  I fight to remain lucid.  Not that there's anything else I can do anyway.

Thanks again for reading and posting.

[Reggie55]

you know, i can really relate to this. my ex and i had what started as an amicable breakup and went south fast. we never really spoke again, and that was really hard to imagine given we were together for three years and been friends for three years before that.

Wow -- six years is a long time...  My relationship only lasted six months and I still can't get over the fact that we're estranged.

I don't want to sound like a hopeless romantic -- but much more than the sex I really miss the friendship.

you cant know for certain, but for most people, in most cases, the ice thaws eventually. she probably was embarrassed by having the police called on her. she may even have taken it as something vindictive. but eventually, when the ice thaws, we are better able to see another persons actions in a way that isnt colored by our hurt at/from the time.

She's definitely angry that I "sold" her to the police and tried to persuade them that she was unstable.  And then she felt abandoned when I refused to stay with her when the cops left.  She looked completely out of it though so I really had to leave.  I drove down the road and puked everywhere.  Had I stayed with her, maybe she would've calmed down, maybe there would've been another crisis.  I preferred to play it safe.

I know I would feel so much better if we were just in OK terms.  Not BFFs or anything.  Just OK.

But the fact she has remained mad at me for so long isn't a very good sign.  It shows that she has a fairly low level of awareness.

So sad.  All I wanted was to love her in a stable relationship.

[SinisterComplex]

"You know, I'm a patient guy and thought I could endure the ups and downs of a partner with mental health challenges.  My parents weren't exactly "perfect" and I have plenty of "imperfect" friends as well.  I was totally not prepared for what I went through." - LOL...Reggie, no amount of education, training, experience can prepare you. You are not alone. It can and does happen to the best of us. Just be kind to yourself and don't beat yourself up about it. There is nothing you could have done different.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

[Reggie55]

Yesterday I met up with an acquaintance of mine who has been diagnosed with BPD.  It was the first time we spoke about BPD openly and her perspective was quite interesting.

She is now in therapy and is very much self aware.  However she could still relate with the behaviour of my ex and assured me her actions weren't meant to be malicious.  She even encouraged me to reach out to my ex...

Before we parted ways, she semi jokingly mentioned I could date her instead... ;)  Two BPDs in a row would probably send me straight to hell.

[once removed]

any update reggie?