I feel crazy

[WitzEndWife]

I'm really disturbed by my own behavior in relation to my husband's behavior recently. I am codependent and have a lot of trauma around social rejection and not being enough from middle school, compounded by subsequent abusive relationships throughout my adult life. But lately, I'm cracking up in a big way in response to his constant grinding me into the ground over everything.

When he gets upset with me, it's not a normal, "I'm mad at you for doing X," it's always presented as something fundamentally, morally, mentally, intrinsically wrong with me. He says things like, "Why would you DO that?" or "I just don't understand the thought process!" or "I just don't see how someone could..." And he goes on and on and on and on. He's been doing this on and on for weeks. This weekend, I lost it down the shame spiral. His words made me want to disappear. I felt like, "Why am I still standing here, breathing air, if I'm so awful?" I apologized over and over and over. I hit myself with my fists. I whipped myself up into a full-fledged panic, sweating and panting and pacing. He would coolly tell me to shut up and put his headphones in and ignore me. He told me I just didn't want to own up to my misdeeds, so I was being dramatic. He said he "didn't have time for" my drama.

I felt insane. And today I just feel further traumatized. I feel like I'm losing my grip on reality. Today, I'm just depressed and out of sorts. I'm at work and I don't feel like myself at all. At the beginning of the year, I was so hopeful for myself. I never imagined I'd go down such a deep shame rabbit hole. It's terrifying. I didn't know all of that was there. I have therapy this week, but I feel like I'm starting all over again.

[BrokenSpokane]

I felt insane. And today I just feel further traumatized. I feel like I'm losing my grip on reality. Today, I'm just depressed and out of sorts. I'm at work and I don't feel like myself at all. At the beginning of the year, I was so hopeful for myself. I never imagined I'd go down such a deep shame rabbit hole. It's terrifying. I didn't know all of that was there. I have therapy this week, but I feel like I'm starting all over again.

I know the feeling. I lost myself. I became someone I hadn't recognized anymore. But, I was so entrenched in the relationship and desire to make it work, I thought everything was my fault. I believed everything she told me, committing myself to change. I too hot myself (gave myself a black eye). I became suicidal, depleted of all self-esteem and sense of self-worth. Nothing I said would resonate with her. Circular arguments I couldn't get out of and no answer was good enough.

I too felt like I was going crazy.

On page 10 of, "Stop Walking on Eggshells", there's a series of questions. I answered yes to all of them. Then the following phrase hit me:

"You're not crazy, it's not your fault and you're not alone"

[Cat Familiar]

When he gets upset with me, it's not a normal, "I'm mad at you for doing X," it's always presented as something fundamentally, morally, mentally, intrinsically wrong with me. He says things like, "Why would you DO that?" or "I just don't understand the thought process!" or "I just don't see how someone could..."

This is classic abuser language. It is painful to be spoken to in that way. And inappropriate.

Can you short circuit that type of behavior? Perhaps if you say, "I'm hearing that you are displeased with something I've done. I'm willing to discuss doing things differently, but I'm not willing to listen to character assassination. So I'm going to leave the room if we cannot have a productive discussion right now."

You are under no obligation to listen to insults like that. Can you formulate a response you can deliver in your own words?

[Harri]

Hi. 

At the beginning of the year, I was so hopeful for myself. I never imagined I'd go down such a deep shame rabbit hole. It's terrifying. I didn't know all of that was there. I have therapy this week, but I feel like I'm starting all over again.

I've been in that rabbit hole before and yes it is terrifying.   It is also an opportunity for you to take a look at old wounds and work on finally healing them.  And to learn how to cope better with current challenges and hurts.   

Feeling like this, the way you do, does not mean the hope you felt at the beginning of the year was false.  It may just be the beginning of something new and very much needed.

[I Am Redeemed]

What you described sounds exactly like what my ex used to say to me. Cat is right, those phrases are textbook language of abusers.

He is essentially pushing the red button of your core trauma over and over and over again. Then leaving you alone with the reactivated trauma and telling you you are doing it on purpose to avoid accountability. That is in itself triggering of your rejection trauma, and it is also textbook abuser behavior.

Try to be kind to yourself. What you are experiencing from your partner is compounding the trauma you have already experienced in the past. I completely understand how it feels to see yourself falling apart and feel like you are crazy. The good thing is that you have awareness of your feelings, the responses to the trauma that you want to change, and what triggers it. You are in therapy.

With trauma recovery, there can be steps forward, then back, then forward again. It's not linear. It's OK to experience setbacks in progress, especially when you are experiencing hurtful behaviors from your partner that are piling on top of old trauma. It doesn't mean you will stay stuck in your current state forever.

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks all for the kind responses. It absolutely helps me to feel like I'm not crazy and that others have experienced the same feelings and have taken similar actions. I do recognize his behavior as abusive, and I know it's a product of how he was treated as a child, but it's true, I don't have to listen to it if it's going to be triggering for me. I have tried in different ways to say, "I get that you're unhappy with X, but that is not an excuse to grind me into the ground over it," but that doesn't work because he just goes on the defensive. I think that I can remove myself from the situation and that might be the best thing to do, because sometimes it's not something I can change or even that is reasonable to change. For example, he got angry with me for making myself lunch without making him something - when he wasn't even hungry. I can say something like, "I hear you're upset and I'm sorry that what's happening is making you feel that way. I'm happy to talk about it later, but I prefer not to discuss it when you're heated because it's bringing up my own trauma," and if he goes on, I'll remove myself.

When I can't remove myself, like if we're in the car or out somewhere together, I'll stay silent and try to have some go-to phrases on hand to try to block out the shaming talk. I have been journaling and meditating at night and that has been helping me regain some strength. I think spending more time away from him on weekends will be helpful as well.

[Cat Familiar]

I think that basic human politeness often impedes us nons from enforcing our boundaries. It’s not a fair fight if one partner uses unkind and abusive language while the other clings to basic human decency.

I’m not saying to get down in the trenches and fight dirty. What I am saying is to recognize when your partner is treating you disrespectfully.

It will take time to notice if this has been an ongoing pattern, but remember you needn’t subject yourself to poor treatment. Also remember that it’s not good for him either to be permitted to talk to you this way.

You have every right to leave the conversation. You can do it politely, without pointing fingers. “I don’t feel comfortable listening to this.” Or you can be more direct. “I deserve to be talked to in a respectful manner. I will be interested in hearing you if you do that. Otherwise I’m going to exit this conversation.”

[WitzEndWife]

I know what you're saying Cat, and with other boundaries, I don't beat around the bush, but for some reason, enforcing this one always causes a blowup. For example, sometimes he will order me around, like, "Take this upstairs," and I say, "You can ask me to do it, you don't have to order me. Then, he blows up and starts raging about how I'm policing his speech and trying to control him and how it's a deal breaker, etc. And I've held onto this boundary before, but it sort of ends up in limbo. He doesn't do it as often anymore, for sure, but he is disrespectful in other ways or twists it or says, "The dishwasher is done," implying that I should empty it because he loaded it, or something like that. He's very sneaky and twisted with his disrespect. It's like, he knows he can't get away with X, so he does x, a more covert version that maybe I won't notice.

[Cat Familiar]

sometimes he will order me around, like, "Take this upstairs," and I say, "You can ask me to do it, you don't have to order me. Then, he blows up and starts raging about how I'm policing his speech and trying to control him and how it's a deal breaker, etc.

Well, you are "policing his speech." Boundaries are about what we will or will not do, not how someone else talks or behaves. I might say in response to "Take this upstairs," "I respond to polite requests, not orders" and not do it at all. (But I'm snarky and willful, so perhaps there's a way you can say this comfortably in your own words.)

Regarding "The dishwasher is done," you can say, "That's nice."

Learning to assert yourself, when you haven't done so for years, won't be a journey without bumps. However you can minimize them by not falling into the role of victim while he plays abuser. I had to learn this after being in a long marriage with a BPD/NPD/ASPD abuser. It was so easy to immediately go into the victim role. After all, I wasn't starting it and he was being unkind.

I had to learn to transition from victim to assertive by adopting a few strategies: asking questions and calling out the assumptions (Are you asking me to unload the dishwasher?), playing dumb (Yes, I heard the beep when the dishwasher finished its cycle.), channeling my inner Asperger personality, which used to be a much bigger part of my persona in the past (Umhmmm. I'm really glad we bought that model of dishwasher. It's really quiet when it runs.)

You are not his servant. You are his wife. You are under no obligation to comply with his commands. You've already achieved some success in that his demands have taken more covert forms. Perhaps he won't stop behaving disrespectfully, but you don't have to participate when he does.

[WitzEndWife]

I definitely need to remind myself not to fall into victim mode. I have a cluster B boss at work, so I can't escape it. Sometimes it's easier just to let the covert stuff go at the end of a long day, but I realize I'm just enabling it if I do.

Food for thought, absolutely.

[Cat Familiar]

Certainly having a cluster B boss is unfortunate, but do you find your self esteem threatened at work?

[WitzEndWife]

Certainly having a cluster B boss is unfortunate, but do you find your self esteem threatened at work?

Oh yes. My last "review" was all about how I was a "good manager" and did a good job, but I was "not a leader" because, he says, I don't want anyone to "surpass me" professionally. Of course, he was talking about the fact that, two years ago, I didn't promote his favorite employee, causing him to entertain another job offer (but, don't worry - the guy with 5 years of experience got to pick his own salary and job as my boss struggled to keep him and now works on my level - 15 years of experience here). And then he asked me what I thought of HIM as a person - in my review. So...yeah, it's challenging. I've learned to separate myself from his delusions for the most part, and thankfully there are others in the organization who see my value, so it's not horrible. Still, not ideal.

[Cat Familiar]

Definitely having a boss with a personality disorder would make you feel vulnerable careerwise, but it sounds like you don't take it as personally as you do with your husband's PD.

[WitzEndWife]

Definitely having a boss with a personality disorder would make you feel vulnerable careerwise, but it sounds like you don't take it as personally as you do with your husband's PD.

I try not to take it personally. I think I would go off the deep end if I did.

[Cat Familiar]

So you do have the skills to not take that behavior personally. If you can do that at work, you can do that at home. Let's imagine the next time your husband tries to cut you down. You use the strategy you've honed at work. How does that feel?

[WitzEndWife]

It feels like I recognize the behavior for what it is, feel confident about myself, and don't take it inside of me. Hmm...interesting way to frame it. I never thought of it from that perspective.

[Notwendy]

I can relate to your post. It's thankfully been a long time since I went down that rabbit hole but I did over the holidays.

Looking back, I can see the set up. I was in HALT- the acronym for a set up for this: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. When I am feeling any of these, I need to remain aware that self care is needed. In this situation, I had been dealing with an allergic reaction to a medicine I had taken. The kids came home, and although I wasn't at my best, I put a lot of work into the holidays and over extended myself. I wanted it to be a good time for the kids.

Set up #2: with the kids home, there wasn't a spare bedroom to go to when an argument started. It's one way to de-escalate. I have found these things tend to happen in situations where I can't walk away to calm myself down such as staying in a hotel, or driving together in a car. This is a self care thing for me- to get some moments alone.

Set up #3: Holiday expectations. This is a tough one for me. Our holidays weren't much of a big deal, BPD mom didn't cook. Sometimes we went out, but I don't have memories of how a holiday should be. For my H though, Christmas at his house meant food, lots of food, and everyone ate as much as they could. His family was not well off, so there weren't a lot of presents, but food was the central event. I try to make things nice for him and the kids by having their favorite foods. H also doesn't cook, or do dishes. Just asking him has set off an angry response.  I try to make the holidays nice, but it's extra work for me. Although I stopped walking on eggshells when it is just us, I find myself doing it during the holidays when the kids are home, to avoid making an unpleasant memory for the kids.

So, perfect storm. I'm not feeling at my best, and overdid it in the kitchen. The kids help- they can cook, but H doesn't.

So I said something to him about helping,  and it was taken as a criticism. That sets the ball rolling into a stream of verbal abuse. In the moment, H believes he is being attacked viciously and then "defends himself" by saying the meanest things he can think of.

He's actually embarrassed about some of the things he said. I'm at the point where I don't take them as personally. They sound ridiculous. But in the moment, I think he believes that what I said to him is equally hurtful, and something starts this and the words just fly.

I think it comes down to victim perspective. If someone is in victim perspective, they aren't aware of much else, because they are focused on their own feelings. There can't be two people in victim mode. It's a drama triangle set up. If someone is in HALT for any reason, they are also not at their best. Whatever I said - out of my own frustration in the moment, came across as a vicious attack. This doesn't excuse the response. But I can't control that.

On our part, I think we need to be very aware - not of them, but of our own feelings. I am making a note of the next holiday and try not to get overwhelmed. I love having the kids home and making the event nice for them, but I have to admit that I felt resentful at my H for not stepping up to help more.

It may mean asking the kids to help more, or getting take out for more of the meals. Or getting some parts of the meals prepared already at the store.  Holidays can bring out FOO issues for both of us.

When you "feel crazy" it's time to take care of you!

[PeteWitsend]

Well, you are "policing his speech." Boundaries are about what we will or will not do, not how someone else talks or behaves. I might say in response to "Take this upstairs," "I respond to polite requests, not orders" and not do it at all. (But I'm snarky and willful, so perhaps there's a way you can say this comfortably in your own words.)...

THIS!

It's kinda crazy how we get so dragged down in the mud by pwBPD, we forget or excuse them for failing to use basic human politeness and decency with us. 

Their own lack of boundaries explains why they feel like they can trample all over someone else they're close to; almost entitled to.  But it shouldn't be that way; not for friends, family or even married couples.   

Both spouses should make requests, not demands; nor complaints.  You didn't stop being an individual just because you got married, and your spouse did not gain a personal servant. 

It took me a while to realize all this in my own case.  After I moved out and got away from the constant abuse, I was surprised by how 5 1/2 years of this kind of crap had "normalized" her demanding and abusive behavior in my mind, and how I had accepted way more of it than I ever should have.  All this is easier said than done, when dealing with a pwBPD, of course...!  but it's the minimum standard we should hold our spouses to. 

[Notwendy]

You didn't stop being an individual just because you got married, and your spouse did not gain a personal servant.

Absolutely, and yet, my own poor boundaries and upbringing made me an ideal match for this expectation.

The way my BPD mother spoke to my father and to her immediate family would be appalling to an outside observer, if they ever got the chance to hear it, which they don't because she changes to her public charming persona in the presence of others.

She's demanding, critical, verbally abusive. And as a child, I was expected to do her bidding. Her sense of entitlement is extraordinary. She treats us like servants and it was the "normal" in my family.

My H grew up with a mother who did everything- all the cooking, cleaning. She'd cook and serve a meal. The girls in the family would get up to help her. The men just sat there after the meal watching TV, oblivious to her efforts and didn't offer to help. Until I knew better, I thought she was the mother of the year, the mother I wished I had, but she was actually co-dependently managing her husband's feelings and his temper by doing this.

My H knows better than to expect me to be a servant. He doesn't want to be like his father and if he's being rational, doesn't expect me to act like his mother does. But emotionally, he wants to be treated like his co-dependent mother treated the males in the family and during the holidays- these emotions are prevalent.

I definitely understand the importance of household tasks and doing my part. I do most of it. But common courtesy would be to at least offer to help if you see your spouse has been in the kitchen for hours and is now going to spend more time cleaning up.

But I can't control anyone else. if he wants a Christmas like his mother did, and  If I am feeling resentful over trying to meet this expectation, then it's on me to change, if that means a less elaborate holiday dinner, or some other solution, I can decide on that.

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks for sharing your story, Notwendy - that's a great acronym to help you pause and reset. I definitely need to do more of that. I'm trying not to beat myself up for not doing the things I think I should do either. It's a delicate walk, for sure.

I'm so annoyed that I get so triggered off of the littlest things, but I'm starting to realize that it's probably because I bottle everything up. I'm not allowed to express criticism or anger in my house when it's directed at him, because he'll just blow up. And sometimes that anger just needs to come out - and since it can't come out toward him, I aim a lot of it at myself.

We all know that expressing anger toward BPDs is unproductive, but how to get it out without it going inward? That is the big question here for me.

[badknees1]

Hello. BPD partners can make you feel you've lost it. But you are not crazy. I do feel that way sometimes. I find I always have to engage my BPD wife with some preparation and bring in the tools I've learned and rehearsed. I guess this makes our marraige somewhat unsafe, and less than intimate. I had to mourn this, but have accepted it.  If we don't learn some skills we can get blown away and feel like  we have jello brains. It's like learning to walk again while your in rush hour at Times Square. But it can be done, you can do it. Those of us with BPD loved ones need to use self care, find solid support, and live life. You are not crazy. The situation is chaotic but is not who you are.

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks badknees1 - It does really feel like we're going against our own nature, going against the flow, so to speak, as we're trying to learn how to deal with this behavior. It's trying to stay sane in an insane environment.

Like, last night, H was gone when I came home and I had scheduled a yoga class that evening. I fed the dogs and made myself a snack. As I was eating my snack, he came home. Mind you, he walked through the door all chipper and fine. Then, he saw me eating and said, "You're eating without me?" I explained that I was going to yoga  and was just grabbing a snack. "Great, so I'm all alone again," he said, and moped into the kitchen. Then, he threatened to eat my ice cream - which he's banned from eating because he binged an entire carton of ice cream, half of the remaining one, and all of our other dessert food over the weekend and I told him he either needed to get another carton of ice cream for himself or he needed to let me have the rest over the week. I ran in to stop him from doing that and then kicked myself because it was clear he was just saying that for attention.

He made himself a smoothie and moped around, saying things like, "Why am I even alive?" I said, "What's wrong? You were all happy go lucky when you walked in the door, then you saw me eating a snack and you went down this spiral." He said, "You're leaving me alone." I said, "Well, I'm going to yoga because I need time for myself, for my mental health - are you saying you don't want me to go do things for myself?" He said, "No - it's fine! Forget it." I said, "I'll be back in an hour." And that was that.

But even doing a normal thing like grabbing a snack - because I didn't make dinner for him, upset him - and then going and doing my own thing triggered his abandonment issues. It's hard when all you want is to go home and relax. But I was proud of myself that I didn't let him guilt me. I have a right to my time and my snacks, and I don't have to make him dinner if I don't feel like it. Yay for boundaries.

[formflier]

  triggered his abandonment issues. 

If you had it to do over again...thinking about "what was really going on", would you do anything different?

Best,

FF

[WitzEndWife]

If you had it to do over again...thinking about "what was really going on", would you do anything different?

I really don't know how to handle this situation differently. He is triggered by me eating without him. This weekend, while he was sleeping in, I made myself a couple of protein pancakes from a mix. I had no idea he was going to wake up, but I figured that if he did, I would just ask him if he'd like some and make them for him. Well, he came downstairs (because of course), and saw me eating. I asked him immediately if he would like some pancakes. He said no and he went back upstairs. Then, he sent me angry texts from the bed. What am I supposed to say in that case? If I assume he's feeling abandoned, he'll tell me that's not what he's feeling. He's not very good at identifying the root, it's more about painting me as an inconsiderate, bad person.

[formflier]

Can you share the texts with us or at least give us a flavor?

Also interested in your responses.

Here's what I'm looking for.  It likely "fed" something he wanted...he sent the angry texts and you did something and it somehow got better or seemed "normal" to him.

Have you been proactive and asked him to stop these reactions (asked him in a period of calm).

He doesn't control when you can and can't feed yourself.  Period.  You should do nothing to validate or entertain that idea in the slightest.

Anyway...this is really odd.  I mean, why not just say "yes..I'd love some pancakes'

You know...I think you should ask him that..exactly. 

Help me understand your choice to turn down pancakes and send the texts you sent (don't describe them as angry).    How did you want me to understand what you were communicating?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

What am I supposed to say in that case? If I assume he's feeling abandoned, he'll tell me that's not what he's feeling. He's not very good at identifying the root, it's more about painting me as an inconsiderate, bad person.

What are you supposed to say? "Honey do you want any pancakes?" That's all. Ignore the rest and go about your business. If he wants pancakes, make him pancakes. If he wants to pout, let him pout.

Your trigger is being told (or suggested) that you're "an inconsiderate, bad person."

Turn this around. You offered to make him pancakes. He acted like an azz and was rude and sent you unkind texts. Who is the inconsiderate, bad person here?

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342630.msg13098145#msg13098145

Thank you.