Split duration patterns/frequency? What have others seen?

[Jwood]

Hi there,

I'm in the 5th split cycle with my udBPDbf. I actually had to write this out on a timeline last week to see the pattern - 6 weeks at the start although more frequent now. Curious if others see similar patterns, ie duration and frequency? All comments appreciated.

Jan - Mar 2018 - good
Mar - May 2018 - acting different
June - July 2018 - 6 week split
July - Mar 2019 - reconnect, things are very good for the most part. A few incidents but we fall deeply in love. He talks about marriage and moving in together.
Mar - May 2019 - acting different
June - July 2019 - 6 week split
July - Aug 2019 - return, apologetic. Begin to repair. (6 weeks)
Sep - Oct 2019 - 6 week split
Oct - 2019 - return, apologetic. Begin to repair. (3 weeks).
Oct - Nov 2019 - 2 week split
Nov - Dec 2019 - return, apologetic.  Begin to repair. (4 weeks)
Dec 2019 - current split now at 5 weeks

He's more a quiet bpd type. Checks all the boxes. I'm trying to determine the likelihood of his return and preparing myself on how to respond. My T thinks it's very likely. He did check my linkedin last week. He's done similar things in the past the first time he disappeared.

Thanks everyone. I'm learning so much on here and really appreciate it. I really love this man and know he loves me too. I'm hoping to get him into proper therapy. It's one of my boundaries should he return.

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[2Loyal2Long]

I agree with your T!  You just taught me something:  Start documenting cycles and mood swings, as well as triggering events.  This is a predictably unpredictable disordered behavior pattern.

Thanks for the lesson Jwood, I believe you’re finding your own answers!

[Jwood]

Thanks 2L2L. It's become so complicated as far as what's happened and when, i had to write it down. It wasn't until i did it, that i could really see the patterns. I actually did it in graph form showing the spikes in mood good/bad etc charted on the timeline of our relationship.

[2Loyal2Long]

Looks like any time he gets close he backs off.  Predictably unpredictable, it’s the come close/pull away behavior.

What my H told me yesterday is that he freezes up in fear (he didn’t elaborate about the part that it happens when he gets close but I knew what he meant)..  I see the same thing in your chronological charting.

[Jwood]

Yes, indeed!

After the first split and being completely ghosted 4 months in (not something I'd ever experienced before) when he came back he said he "got scared" and he "typically runs away", but he said there was something different about me/us, he really cared. I actually believe this. Now even with this being the 5th split he tries to rationalize that there's no connection although i don't think he really believes it. They get engulfed which is what your H seems to be saying too although not perhaps connecting the "fear" to engulfment. These are the pieces a T can help them connect.

[Jwood]

Interested in feedback...
Some further detail on recent events - comments welcome, please.

We were back together only a month Nov 10th to Dec 11th and then it happened again. So, i ask myself what's different this time? Will he / can he come back from this one?

When we came back together November 10th I had a very cautious conversation with him regarding BPD. His daughter had come to me a few months previously and said her and her brother both feel they have BPD (that was a bit of a shock!) but it made sense. They both also thought their dad had "similar traits" as she put it. That's when i first started looking at BPD and it all lined up. Of course I knew there was something going on with his mental health but wasn't entirely sure prior to that. His kids are 18 and 23 so they've lived with this much longer than I have witnessed.

When I spoke with him about it and talked about the fact that the kids and I were both seeing something going on that was affecting him and us (they both felt the repercussions of his behaviour as well). He hadn't mentioned to me previously ever that his kids had told him this before (again, another shock but I didn't push it). Seems an important piece of information I feel i should have had. If my kids (I also have 2) thought they had BPD, I'd think it worthy of mentioning. We were in a committed relationship at this point after all.

His response was "maybe I do have it", (again that shocked me). I was so afraid to have this conversation and thought it highly likely that he'd get upset but i was at the point where i really had nothing left to loose. We'd gone through this (splitting) 4 times before and i was so very drained. He agreed he'd go to counseling with both his kids and we'd work out a plan around it. He didn't seem terribly upset about it and told me he loved me.

Another month goes by as we cycle through to devaluation again which has him acting differently once again, and avoiding talking about counseling. I did bring it up about 2 weeks in and basically said, "hey, i don't want to have a long drawn out conversation on the topic right now but nothings been said about counseling and it's been two weeks. I would like to know your thoughts on it and when you expect to set something up. I want to support you and the kids and I'd like for us to talk for maybe 30 min each week on how we're doing (him and I) and just generally check in with each other about how we're feeling." He said okay, and that was that. I thought I was being proactive and not waiting for something to blow up to have a discussion. Terrifying for me, but I went in anyway! The goal has always been a healthy relationship.

December 11th rolls around and all of a sudden he "splits". I try to tell him, "honey it's happening again, please try to stop yourself" but it's no use. He says he's not convinced he has this. So crazy when the 3 closest people to him have shared our concerns.

I decided about a week later to speak to his mom. She's 82 years old but he has a lot of respect for his parents and I think maybe this time she'll help. So, i call her up and she's ready to hang up with "we don't really want to be involved dear", (this has been the same messaging throughout) - they live in his basement suite so we'd see them quite regularly. Before she has a chance to hang up I say, "I need you to be involved, the kids have brought their concerns to me as well and he's made 2 suicidal comments in the last 3 months". That's when she started listening. I hadn't planned on telling her, but i wanted her to listen and it came out. I walked her through every thing at a high level and she was very concerned. I assured her that I love her son and know he can get better with our support. The kids are both looking for me to help - it's the first time anyone has paid attention and noticed what's going on. The crazy thing with this illness is that only the people that are the closest to them really see it, ie, me and his kids, that's it. Everyone else doesn't really get it including mom and dad although they do know about a few things - excessive drinking, anxiety, depression. She agrees to try to talk to him and we hang up.

Over the course of the next week leading up to Christmas we talk a couple times on the phone and exchange emails. Her and his dad are concerned and want to "get it right" and "don't want to trigger him". They're most concerned with the suicidal comments and aren't sure how to deal with it. She lets me know that their approach is going to be to ask why I wanted him to go to counseling. Sorry, left that out...he'd relaying to them that I want him to go to counseling and left them with the impression that it was over between us because of that which of course he'd done 4 times before as well. Of course now they know all about the borderline traits etc. I thought that approach could work and was delicate enough. I stressed that she not mention that we'd talked or he would just be upset.

I was supposed to cook Christmas dinner this year for the entire family 12+ as I'd done last year (which was a wonderful time btw). Sadly, Christmas passed and I called her boxing day, they'd spoken briefly with him and he'd said he was "mad at me" and she said maybe i should give it some time (very disappointing), she assured me they were going to "try again" but (didn't want to nag him". The next day I get an email saying I shouldn't contact her anymore. I send a message back asking what had happened. The response was awful, "yes, x says he's depressed because you keep contacting his relatives". She'd told him we spoke and he of course then blamed me and played the victim. Everything I'd told her about - all the bpd symptons, the kids bringing it to me, the suicidal comments, none of it mattered. I felt as if I'd brought them a problem they didn't want to know about and since I'd brought it to them, I was to blame. Devastating for me. It was not an easy decision to make to call them and ask for their help but telling them about the suicidal comments I know was the right thing to do. I know you should never ignore threats like that. I trained as a 911 operator in my 20's and learned this.

I had also let his daughter know about the comments too about the same time and I am certain both his kids have heard him say these things before. I received a very angry, somewhat incoherent message via text from him saying, "i should have never told her that and it was self serving and that no one never should tell anyone those things, we're done, don't come to my house or I'll call the police". Side note, both of his kids had also made suicidal threats over the same 3 month period which he told me about. In fact when his daughter's friend called him to tell him about one such threat his response was, "you did the right thing calling me, you are a good friend". At the time, I stressed to him that they both needed to get into some counseling and he should be involved. I offered my support.

I guess I'm wondering if with all this latest chaos if it might be too much for him to come back. I know he loves me 100% and my T says of course she thinks he will return. I think about some of the crazy stuff that's happened before and I've said to myself there's no way he's coming back but then he does.

Feeling unsure and tired and needed to write it down. Very interested in others feedback. ty  for listening

[Dungahass]

Hey Jwood,

That really sucks, especially over the holidays. Your wondering if he'll come back reminds me of my own situation. I made a thread about it, and just like you, despite my therapist saying my ex will come back, I still worry she's gone for good now.

I'm wondering, what were the previous splits like? Do you have an idea of what triggered them? Were they similar?

From what I know of BPD, suggesting it to the sufferer might not end well. You obviously have the greatest of intentions, and your particular situation (his kids saying he has BPD) might have called for having the discussion with him. Personally, the potential of a lashing out and its fallout scares the crap out of me.

You mentioned wanting to set a boundary about therapy before getting back together. Are you ready to defend your boundary and walk away for good if he doesn't agree to go and stick with it? Like, really ready? Based on the fact that he hasn't gone already after having two separate conversations with his loved ones over his BPD, it sounds like he might sadly still not be ready to go down that route on his own, so you need to prepare for that scenario.

I don't know all details of your situation, but based on your history, and based on your therapist's word, I think there is a chance he'll come back. Hard to say of course, so it'll probably be helpful to focus on yourself for a bit so that if he does come back, you'll be in a healthier state for it.

[Jwood]

Hi Dungahass,

I know how you feel too. It's so unpredictable whether they'll return. My gut is telling me yes. We really do love each other. Hard to believe this is my life.

The splits really are push/pull. The closeness. I know he wants it but it also scares him. I suspect he didn't properly attach with his mom as a child. Different comments he's made.

Agreed on mentioning bpd. In my case i feel it was necessary. Not always the best approach though. On some level though i think he knows who knows him best (me and the kids). Can't help but think he knows who he's fooling and it's not us.

We've gone to counseling twice before after split 2 and 3. This was before the mention of bpd but i knew something wasn't right with his mental health but didn't have a name for it. My hope was to sort our communication (always good in any relationship) and get him in one on one eventually to figure it out. I had had separate conversations with the therapist and he agreed with the approach. If there's a next time, I'm standing firm on counseling. I do think he appreciates my consistency and respects me so we'll see. I just know too that we can't be successful without it. I won't settle for less.

Trying to focus on me is hard as I'm sure you know. I am trying to remind myself every day. Baby steps. 

[once removed]

a hallmark of BPD is unstable relationships.

our partners are very difficult, notoriously difficult people.

one of the hardest aspects is that when things are good, theyre great, and when theyre bad, theyre horrible. and trying to anticipate those blowups and get ahead of them challenges all of us.

i would, to a point, discourage trying to anticipate the times and ways your partner will cycle, for a variety of reasons.

for one, because realistically, there will always be ups and downs, and the cycle can be unpredictable.

perhaps though, more importantly, it can obscure the big picture. are these bpdish cycles, or are they turning points in a relationship? in other words, was there something going on that changed the trajectory of the relationship, even if it wasnt so obvious? you want to know that, if you want to move the relationship in a healthier trajectory.

you mention, for example, that he you reconnected after a 6 week split (breakup?), that there were incidents (what happened?), that then he was talking marriage and moving in, then you suggest that two months later, he pulled away, and two months after that, another split (breakup?).

your list suggests that there is more going on here than meets the eye. it sounds like there have been multiple long term breakups, for example.

can you tell us more? what has led up to these splits?

[jaded7]

This is a fascinating way to study it.

Your words 'acting different' really caught my attention.

I've noticed this many times. It's something subtle but almost invariably involves anger or at least annoyance with me- what I've said, what I'm doing, how I"m interact with the barista at the coffee shop, how I'm driving, how my hat is on, how much sugar I put in my coffee...etc. etc.

Then the failure to respond to texts or calls, about which I get "busy" or "you need to see a therapist!" when after a couple of days I ask if she is ok and why she isn't communicating; when, previously, she would call or text me 3-6 times a day.

The snappy tone, the condescending lectures.

We've not communicated for 3 weeks today, I haven't seen her in one month after she humiliated me in front of her family by snapping and sarcastically belittling me then leaving for her parents house for Christmas with saying a word to me- after she told me the week before she was inviting me up for Christmas.

[Jwood]

Once removed,

perhaps though, more importantly, it can obscure the big picture. are these bpdish cycles, or are they turning points in a relationship? in other words, was there something going on that changed the trajectory of the relationship, even if it wasnt so obvious? you want to know that, if you want to move the relationship in a healthier trajectory. There hasn't been any significant event going on in our relationship other than us getting closer. When this happens, there tends to be a snowball effect - he starts acting differently, I respond (in the past with JADEing), that makes him react even further, and poof - he's gone. I'm painted black until he cycles through.

you mention, for example, that he you reconnected after a 6 week split (breakup?), that there were incidents (what happened?), that then he was talking marriage and moving in, then you suggest that two months later, he pulled away, and two months after that, another split (breakup?). The incidents i refer to happened between July 2018 and May 2019. Getting drunk and acting like a jerk, saying not so nice things on occasion, severe travel anxiety on a trip to the UK.  Things we worked through and discussed and he apologized for and didn't cause a break. I believe now that they were forms of mini splits. The moving in / marriage talk happened when we came back together the first time - that period of time was almost a year (July 2018 - May 2019). Our relationship during this time was actually pretty amazing.

Jaded7,

Your words 'acting different' really caught my attention. that's really how it felt. I couldn't quite pin pointed it. A collection of small things like you mention.

I know how you feel about Christmas. My upBPDbf left December 11th and I still haven't heard from him.

I keep trying to tell myself that it doesn't matter how much I want this, he has to want this too. He won't get well and we can't repair this without his commitment. I want so badly to run to him but I know that no good will come from it. Things are different when he initiates the return.

[paperinkart]

I so closely relate to your timeline. It’s insane. I think me and my partner have gone through about 5 major episodes in the 2+ years we’ve been together. It used to be less frequent (maybe every 4-6 months) but the time apart we’re long (weeks or months of not speaking during the worst of it). I also relate to the “acting weird” periods beforehand. A few weeks away from a major split, there was an obvious change in his behaviour, almost overnight.

Now I’m finding that his splits are happening more frequently than before which feels alarming, but they are lasting way less time (not talking for only a few hours or maybe a day or two). Just in the last 2 weeks, he’s had 3 episodes of pushing me away, including one at this very moment.  It’s frustrating because it feels like nothing changes between us- he just wakes up and feels differently. But I also think I’m handling it much better and much calmer than before. He’s actually texting with me now because I showed empathy instead of freaking out and having a panic attack.

Anyway, sorry, I didn’t mean to talk about me for so long. Sending you warm thoughts and I hope everything is sorted soon!

[Jwood]

Hi paperinkart,

Thanks for your response. There's comfort in knowing others are experiencing things similarly.

I don't mind you talking about you! It helps!

So, I'm considering sending him a message which I'm going to discuss with my T on Thursday. She's been pretty firm on the fact i shouldn't but there's part of me that thinks i should. If i do, i want to get it right. Express empathy and my boundaries and that i love him. Part of me wants to call him a big fat jerk too but I'll leave that out. I also would like to express that what he's doing is hurtful and i won't tolerate it. I have some thinking to do on it.

What have you seen when your partner comes out of his splits? Have you waited or messaged? What has worked for you?

[paperinkart]

I’ve done both- both waited and messaged. The messaging was usually desperate and panicked because I had no idea what was happening (before we learned about BPD). It always made the situation worse and escalated the drama of it all.

When I’ve left it alone, he’s either calmed down right away and we can talk about what’s bothering him, or he’ll reach out very apologetically in a few days. Every bone in my body wants to call 30 times and scream and cry and generally be pathetic, but when I can hold off for long enough to calm down and choose empathy, it’s always fared for the best. The more I panicked and call and text and beg to know what’s wrong, the faster and more severely he will retreat into his shell and totally cut me off. The quietly I am, the more open he was with me.

It also hurt me less when I chose to see him for what he really was in those moments: a scared child acting out of fear. When I can remember that these moments aren’t really “him”, they are just a side effect of BPD, this helps me not take the situation personally and then the anger dissipates faster. Then I can approach the situation from a place of love, instead of fear, and it really works better for both of us.

But I mean, your human so if you cant help but scream and cry, I don’t blame ya!

[Jwood]

Thanks for sharing what's worked and hasn't. In the beginning i too reacted. It felt crazy making. Didn't make logical sense so i was always reactive - yes, before i knew what this was. The last few times have been a bit different.  He called upset and threatening to take his life and then the next time i went to him and we talked specifically about bpd. I feel that because of the circumstances over the last few months it's at a different level. It feels like make or break. I want to be empathetic but also express what i will and will not accept and i feel he needs to understand or at least i need to tell him how this all makes me feel too. I think that's fair.

[fixerupper]

Jwood, I can't thank you enough for posting this!  This is a huge relief knowing that I'm not alone.  This pattern is so familiar.  I've been with my BF for about 2 1/2 years now and it hasn't been without breaks!  I am now convinced he has BPD.  I do not know what number break up because I quit counting.  I can't believe I've dealt with this man for this long.  We are both mid 40's and have kids from previous marriages which makes this so confusing for them as well.  I've know him since we were very young, went to the same HS but he was gone before I was there.  We would occasionally bump into each other in our 20's but he reached out to me on FB after I was newly divorced.  I was skeptical of him as I knew he had quite the reputation with the girls back in the day which then was a turn off to me.  Well once we reconnected it was an instant attraction.  He was extremely open and honest and told me all about his past romantic dramas.  He has been married 3 TIMES and each marriage ended up bad.  He never had anything nice to say about any of his ex wives.  They were all "stupid, crazy, boring" etc...  after 5months I got a message from a woman on FB saying he was "fishing" on FB and she thought she should tell me.  We spoke and I appreciated her telling me.  I called him, confronted him and he denied and hung up.  He blocked me and didn't reach out for 5days.  I was flabbergasted by this blocking.  I had been married for 13 years and didn't know this was a thing! At the time he was struggling with deep depression so I knew he was messed up.  He finally asked to talk to me after 5 days.  He was remorseful and basically said he'd never come back to someone before and was finding ways to forget about me.  That was the beginning of this rollercoaster.  I forgave, he moved in months later, went on medication and things were good for awhile.  He went off his meds and started getting very irritable.  Criticizing me my kids, my family everything.  We had a fight, he moved out. He impulsively moved all his stuff out in one day.  After a month or so of no contact his friend sent him my profile pic on Match.  He finally broke his silence and confessed how much that hurt him etc.  We got back even though he was off his meds and completely a mess.  He thought I was the devil.  I dealt with his depression for months, crying daily. I told him I cannot be with him unless he gets on meds, that he is suffering and I can't sit by and watch.   I went to the DR. with him and got his prescription.  A week later he was irritable and mean to my son and I told him to leave and I can't deal with him and I'm done.  That lasted a day and I called him, he apologized and we made up.  Shortly after I found an email that he sent the night I broke up with him to an old GF asking her to meet. She said what happened, he said, "same ole.  I can't deal with her family".  I freaked out.  We got into an awful fight that turned slightly physical.  I was devastated that he would do that so quickly especially after I have been dealing with his awful depression and irritability for months.   I was DONE.  Again.  He then begged for forgiveness, crying for days, frantic, how he can't live without me in his life etc.  It took awhile but I came around a forgave him.  We had agreed that we need to stop trying to break up because we just can't bear to be apart.  That was 3 months ago.  For Xmas he bought me a Louis Vuitton bad and wallet saying to sales woman, "she deserves this for dealing with me"  I cried at the store because this was very special to me and something I've wanted for 20 years.  This was like our engagement ring.  His commitment to this relationship.  NOT.   10 days ago I found that he "accidentally" FB friended a young woman he knew while he had access to my FB account.  I got a pop up saying, "say hi to your new friend" while I was talking to him on the phone.  I confronted him about it, he instantly got defensive, swore at me, tried saying that I was stalking her and hung up. NO CONTACT.   I've been over there 2 times now trying to find out exactly what happened, how did I become friends with her?  Trying to communicate.  I hate being ignored.  How could he just not talk to me?  He is still angry so I can't get anywhere with him.  He can't handle any confrontation or arguments.  I'm very responsive.  I like to address issues and usually I raise my voice.  He can't deal.  He calls me crazy etc.  He finally said he's been trying to break up with me for a year.  I said "no, more like 2 1/2 years".  Push, pull. It's insanity.  I told him that I'm concerned for him and that I believe he really has BPD.   His last ex wife has said that as well.  Telling me that I was his next victim. Well I'm leaving him at that.  AGAIN.  It's very sad but I honestly have to take care of my kids and myself. I'm sorry for this long, drawn out story.  I really never share my relationship stories with anyone because it's very embarrassing and everyone is sick of the break up/make game.   I'm really an honest, devoted woman.  I believe that if there is love that there is hope.  I now know that there is help for BPD if he is serious about living a full life.

[hopeful29]

Hi, i am in the same kind of situation so can feel your pain, it is so hard but i love my bf very much too.  its the isolation and withdrawal that is so hard for me.  he knows he has bpd andd does not want to cause me sorrow.  my cycles have been

july -sept good

oct split- i also was not completely aware of what i was dealing with so pulled away

nov - 2 wks good then he pulled away, doesnt feel good enough for me?

mid dec- back together- good

mid jan- split, has financial stress and doesnt feel good enough, so isolates from me saying he causes me sorrow

it is so hard but the more i read, i know i have tto be patient and loving while still looking after me
my heart aches

[Summer2018]

So hard to read everyones posts, but definitely reassuring for me. Similar for me, I see the change in affect  -  even tone in text messages shift, but its fast and then the split happens - days, weeks, longest to date is 2 months - zero contact, disappears off everything, ignores calls, texts etc.  This is probably the 3rd major episode, where its lasted more than days. We are on day 5 now ( we live in separate countries currently).  I know it was external triggers, with stuff going on there this time - but he did reach out the day before, and I wish I could have supported differently, or maybe it would have happened anyway - these are the things I guess we over analyse at this point, desperately alone with the whole thing on replay. I am not good at the silences, I know the anger, begging, constant calling/messaging doesn't work and only makes me feel worse - rejected and alone, but I struggle with detaching. I try and tell myself - time says he will return on his own timeline, but when I am in the thick of it, my worst fears take over, think this is it, this is the time my partner will just simply not come back. I struggle to talk about it with friends and family, they all deem these behaviours as simply unacceptable/abusive/disrespectful and tell me I should have walked away long ago. I read the threads on boundary setting today, super helpful, and if ( and this time I am really uncertain) we can recover from this episode, its definitely time to try something new.  Peace, everyone.