Experience with trying to get the family's help and support

[Jwood]

Wondering how others have tried to involve family members in getting their help and support?

I myself have found it very challenging, because only those closest to them really see what's going on. In my case, me and my uBPDbf's kids. They have tried talking to him and find it very hard to get through to him and they give up. They both believe they have bpd as well but are more self aware. His mom had seemed to want to help but then made the mistake (against my advice) and told him I'd spoken to her. Everything i said then went out the window including the suicial comments, and i was the bad guy. Now speaking with his sister to see what else we might come up with. She is receptive but I'm concerned that could change. He has in the past told family not to speak to me when he's in a split. He's closer with his dad so had considered that his sister may be able to talk to dad about things.

I have always believed that if those around him are supportive in a gentle way towards therapy would really help. I believe his kids are/were really hoping I'd be able to get through. I realize he needs to want help but until those around him begin to question what's happening, it seems he has an enabling support system.

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[pursuingJoy]

Wondering how others have tried to involve family members in getting their help and support?

Jwood, I'm very curious to see responses to this. I've had some of the same thoughts, but any effort I consider making feels a lot like triangulation so I've avoided it. Also, sometimes family is way too close to the situation, and in my case they have poor boundaries and reshare information, sometimes inaccurately. I'm afraid of muddying the waters.

Just thinking out loud: triangulation isn't always bad, but in my experience, whether or not it functions has a lot to do with the mentality of the people involved. My H wanted to improve our marriage so bringing in a third party marriage counselor worked to stabilize our relationship. She is also professionally trained and savvy enough to converse with us while also resisting being pulled or allied by either of us.

Example of bad triangulation: my BPD MIL and H are enmeshed and extremely averse to seeing anything wrong with her behavior or their relationship. As such, any helpful effort I make to get my H to see how he is enabling her results in all three of us adopting the Karpman triangle roles of persecutor (me), victim (MIL) and rescuer (H). It feels counterintuitive but I learned here to step away, off the triangle, and allow them to sort through their relationship. They still try to cast me in the role of persecutor because their relationship functions best when she has a scapegoat - that way he is painted white, I'm painted black, all is well in her world. In stepping away I'm not as easily cast in that role and that creates a great deal of discomfort for them as they try to sort out what's wrong.

In other words, changing my own behavior has been an effective tactic in highlighting their unhealthy behaviors. The veil drops a little and people, family, can see what is really happening. I've also found that as I change my behavior, others mirror it and use the same techniques without me saying anything.

Just sharing my experience. I am in the same boat, so frustrated by enabling behaviors. Maybe someone else has had luck with getting family on board.

pj

[Ozzie101]

I understand your desire to reach out to family for help, Jwood. It seems logical, doesn't it? Many members here have tried the same thing.

I would advise against it, though.

1) As you've already found with his mom, it's very possible (even likely) that the person involved will talk to him and thus make things worse.

2) They're his family/friends. Regardless of whether or not they see that he has a problem and think he needs help, their primary loyalty is going to be to him. If that's the case, shouldn't they support him getting help? Probably. But that may not be how they see it. They may have a different opinion. Your talking to them puts them in a bind. How do they respond to that? Depends on the person. But very often, as with #1, they will go to the person in question: either to "tattle" or because they think that may be the best way to help. Or maybe they just want to get his side of the story.

3) As pj said, pulling others in runs the risk of triangulation.

4) No matter how well you think you know people, there may be things about their relationship or their personality that could lead them to cause more trouble. Can you be sure the person you're talking to doesn't have a PD themselves? Sometimes the only people who know are those living in the same house.

Now, all of this depends on the people involved, the dynamics. But I just know that I've seen multiple examples around here of well-meaning people reaching out to their loved one's family or friends only to find it blow up spectacularly in their faces.

[Jwood]

PJ and Ozzie, you've both raised good points - thank you!

I've considered much of this before. It does feel somewhat like triangulation but when he's in a split, I can't talk to him at all. There's just no use in even trying and any attempt seems to only keep him in it longer.

The decision to reach out to his family this time was partially due to the suicidal comments. Both he and his 2 children have made threats over the last 4 months and with my uBPDbf, it's been when he's in a split. If anything ever happened and I hadn't told anyone, I'd feel awful. I guess my thinking is twofold, (a) make them aware of the suicidal comments, and (b) solicit their support to get him into counseling. Ultimately, there's one more piece - save our relationship!

PJ, I have suspected that his mom may have her own issues. I've also considered this was likely hard information for her to hear about her son. It is easier for her to pretend that everything is okay. I don't regret telling her about the suicidal comments as I feel it was the right thing to do. I've always been told we should take these things seriously. When he wasn't in a split I of course knew what was going on with him but now, in full split, I don't and that has concerned me. The triangle I've ultimately been put in here is as you've said, persecutor (me), victim (him), rescuer (mom). I want to believe though that she will start to think about the things I shared with her and rethink things. She's always liked me and knows her son loves me.

Ozzie, all good points you've made. I've felt forced somewhat into triangulation by all this. It does seem logical to me to reach out to family for help in this situation. I feel somewhat obligated too with his kids involved. Part of me feels this all needs to get out in the open to properly deal with it. I've now spoken with his sister and she's assured me she will not say anything. She asked what I wanted her to do. I said I wasn't really sure exactly. She agreed to do some thinking on it over the next few days and see what ideas she might come up with. I had let her know about the kids suicidal comments as I had only told his mom about him. I didn't want to overwhelm her. Seems I did anyway.

I'm talking to my T later today and will get her feedback on all of this. It's so hard to know what to do. She has said he will more than likely return and that's when I need to set my boundary about counseling to begin right away. Him looking at my linkedin profile last week makes me feel i'm split white again but now he's probably finding it difficult to take the next step and contact me. My thinking was that if/when that happens, the family support will be of huge importance. He cares what his mom and dad think, probably too much for a grown man, but if they are even saying in a gentle way, "we think counseling could benefit you", I'm fairly confident he will listen.

[pursuingJoy]

The decision to reach out to his family this time was partially due to the suicidal comments. Both he and his 2 children have made threats over the last 4 months and with my uBPDbf, it's been when he's in a split. If anything ever happened and I hadn't told anyone, I'd feel awful. I guess my thinking is twofold, (a) make them aware of the suicidal comments, and (b) solicit their support to get him into counseling. Ultimately, there's one more piece - save our relationship!

I can totally understand your concern over suicidal comments. I'm not an expert but I do agree that making others aware could be part of a safety plan. Soliciting their support in getting him to counseling and other stuff might be wandering into gray space with triangulation, but I also know that none of this stuff is linear. There's no magic formula, just experience of others that have walked this road before us. You are researching and asking the right questions of the right people. I know you'll make the decisions that you think are best.

The triangle I've ultimately been put in here is as you've said, persecutor (me), victim (him), rescuer (mom). I want to believe though that she will start to think about the things I shared with her and rethink things. She's always liked me and knows her son loves me.

I know how you feel, my MIL and H also try to paint me as persecutor. I also kind of see you, initially, as a rescuer. I think you were ultimately trying to help your bf. Am I getting that right?

Someone here told me once that I have the power to step off the triangle and refuse that role. Joining a triangle is something we choose, it's not something that's done to us. If you feel like you're the persecutor, what can you do to refuse that role?

I was recently introduced by another poster to the idea that boundaries are a way to keep ourselves in our yard, it's not about keeping others out. I love this idea and it's helped me stay out of the persecutor role. I'll try to give you an example: H visited his mom on his birthday. She spent the day with him cleaning off her other son's gravestone. On H's birthday. It was a manipulative message that he is all she has left, look how sad she is, and he'd better take care of her. H comes home devastated and depressed.

He shared that he was sad and miserable at seeing his mom this way. I am mad at her, but I only expressed sadness for him then suggested that he protect his future birthdays by engaging in activities he enjoyed and save grave-cleaning for other times. This comment was all he needed to come out and attack me for not understanding, for just hating his mom, etc. Completely innocent statement, trying to help/rescue, and -bam- I put myself in the persecutor role.  

If this happens again, I will express that I am sorry he is sad then allow him space to grieve the way he needs to. I'll stay in my yard, let them dance their dysfunctional dance, and I'll stay off the triangle. The discomfort this creates could be the catalyst for a different relationship.  

I'm talking to my T later today and will get her feedback on all of this. It's so hard to know what to do.

At times I feel like I'm having to think and respond for 3 people. All of this is confusing and overwhelming. You are so wise to reach out. Most of us here are trying to help the people we love and you're taking the time to learn what it really means to love and help a person with BPD. Keep up the good work. I know this is exhausting work. I get so tired but we can do it.

Keep us posted on what your T says. I'm sure she'll have other ideas.  

pj

[Jwood]

Reading while out for lunch. I'll respond later but thank you for this PJ!

[Jwood]

Pursing Joy, re your triangulation comments/questions - I think everyone in the situation ends up perceiving their positions on the triangle differently. Yes, I have been trying to help my bf and have been in the rescuer role, and I've also been the victim at the same time. I think many of us on here feel similarly. His mom attempted to put me in the persecutor role when I reached out looking for her help. I raised things that were difficult for her to hear - I believe I rejected the role of persecutor by sending my email back to her politely and succinctly advising her of the facts and that I had engaged her seeking help. I left it at that. From the perspective of my uBPDbf, he would likely say he is the victim, I am the persecutor, and his mom got to be the rescuer (and any of the other enablers around him). It really is a dance and I'd really rather sit this one out!

Good meeting with my T today.

We reviewed and discussed a few things I'm going to action -
My call to his sister: I've decided I'm going to call her back and close this out and step out of this triangle. She'd asked me what she could do / what I thought she can do. The more i have thought about this, the more i realize there's not much she can do. I'm going to have a chat with her and let her know that I wanted her to know what all is happening with him and the kids and needed to get it off my chest. That I feel better knowing she is aware and it is up to her what she does with the information. I'll advise her that it probably won't go well to let him know I've called her. I think she'll be respectful of that. I'm going to suggest she read up on bpd a bit and if she finds any opportunity to support him going to counseling that would be helpful. Not much else she can do. Now that she knows what's happened and with reading up on bpd, that may help her to know what to watch for and perhaps what questions to ask. I'm going to tell her too that I'm stepping back and that I hope he comes out of this with a commitment to going to counseling and to us. I'll let her know too that she's welcome to reach out should she want to but that I won't contact her again while this continues. I'm going to let her know that I don't want to put her in a difficult situation.

sending my uBPDbf an email: I haven't spoken to him in just over 5 weeks now. He'd looked at my linkedin profile which could be a sign that he's now painted me white, not entirely sure. This is typical that he'd do something like this at about this stage but then I'd typically be sending him all kinds of messages so he'd have a better sense of how i'm feeling. I've not done that this time and i get the sense that maybe he's unsure. So, I've decided to send him an email. I read it out to my T today and she said it was good. Basically a summary of what's happened from my perspective leading up to and since this split. She advised that I should inject a bit more around my boundaries, ie, that his hurtful behavior is not acceptable and that he needs to have a commitment to going to counseling for us to continue. She commented on the fact that he keeps saying, "can't you just accept me for who i am?" She thought that i should be firm in saying no to that. That it's not okay to treat another person this way and so, yes, there are things he needs to change. My email to him is about a page long and there's a lot of highlights of the good stuff and our love for each other, my commitment to being there to support him, etc, but it was lacking a bit on what I need to continue, and how much this has hurt me.

A very good productive meeting with my T. A few other tidbits I'll share.

-She talked about allowing myself to be angry and that's okay. I've been treated badly in a lot of ways and I keep putting him first. That's not fair and it's okay that I feel angry. That's a tough emotion for me.
-She talked about looking at the wounds that are coming up for me with this - and advised that I need to show up for me the way I do for others.
-I need to be able to go to the place of helplessness and feel it - let it go.

I always leave these sessions feeling far stronger!

More to do and I'll see what the next few days bring but I'm feeling pretty good at the moment  

[Ozzie101]

You're so fortunate to have such a good relationship with your T. That's very important and not always easy to find. I'm glad it makes you feel stronger. It feels so good, doesn't it, to come out of a session with insight and a better outlook?

It sounds like she has some good advice.

Stepping out of a triangle is always a good thing. And, yes, those points on the triangle can get blurred -- or confused -- or are open to interpretation by the people involved.

I hope my earlier post didn't invalidate you or what you were trying to do! I just wanted to make sure you'd thought through the possible implications of telling people since I've seen that sort of thing go very badly.

I'll be curious to hear what response (if any) you get from your email!

 

[Jwood]

Absolutely not! I appreciate others opinions on here. Helps me to look at things from all angles!

I've definitely considered where it puts his family in this. I've asked myself, what would I do if I was on the receiving end of that information, but it's more than that, what would i do if i were them? Well, I don't really know the answer to that because I'm not them And as you've said, they'll have their own perception and opinion. I've weighed the pros and cons and went in anyway at times.

Always appreciate your comments Ozzie