Need a new perspective

[Choosinghope]

Hi! I'm not in crisis right now, but I would definitely welcome any outside perspectives on my current situation. Specifically, I would love feedback from someone who is in my H's place as someone who married into the relationship with the pwBPD (my mom). I know that many of you are out there, and I would love any insight into what he is thinking and feeling.

As a recap, I've been NC with her for 4 months, and that NC came after the biggest crisis I've had with her yet. That crisis also came only 2 months into my marriage, as my H and I have been married a little under 6 months now. The wedding, of course, triggered a massive dysregulation, as I'm gathering is fairly common with BPD. I feel like I have developed the skills to work on boundaries, protect myself, and try to have at least LC with my mom. Not now, but eventually. I brought that up to my H a few days ago, emphasizing that I wanted to initiate contact again in 2-3 months. He was not thrilled with that, at all. He kind of panicked a bit, and our conversation was a bit ugly. His main points are that she has openly said that she wants us to get divorced, she believes that he is abusive and controlling, I've freely admitted that she is going to continue to be abusive at times, and she is generally an unhealthy person for me. He also thinks that welcoming her back into our lives without any kind of apology or admission of wrong-doing (esp. regarding his character) is condoning her actions and her views and is putting her needs before his and our future family. I told him he's never going to get an apology, at least not a sincere apology, and even if he did, that would go out the window with the next thing that set her off. From his perspective, not expecting an apology before re-initiating contact is the ultimate betrayal boundaries with her and really of our marriage values.

 I do understand his perspective. Our marriage is so new, and I know that my mom is actively against it. Why would I willingly allow her back into my life and jeopardize what is turning out to be a wonderful marriage? And why would I be ok allowing someone back into my life that I KNOW is going to continue to abuse me and my husband--maybe not right away, but it will definitely happen again. I get those things. And yet, she's my mom.That doesn't just go away. For all the crappy memories and the recent betrayals, she has been in my life forever, and I have even more good memories with her. My brain has switched over from all the angry thoughts to the "Oh, that was so nice when my mom did this for me..." thoughts. She can be a wonderful person who is hateful and destructive when she dysregulates.

I am learning radical acceptance and learning to love the whole person while mitigating the effects of the dysregulation. My H, however, does not understand that, not really. He also doesn't really have any incentive to even try with my mom, because to him she's just my unstable, difficult mom. Conversely, I feel like I can and should have a relationship with her, albeit with many changes, strict boundaries, and radical acceptance. I do have that incentive because I love her and I am learning from therapy and this site that a relationship is possible--difficult, but possible.

So, we're kind of stuck. We both understand where the other person is coming from on an intellectual level, but we don't really understand enough to really reach an accord. It's pretty frustrating. This was not ever how I thought my first year of marriage would go. Anyway, I would love any perspectives on this. I know that he is right in some ways, but I also think that I'm right in some ways. Help?

[Turkish]

She's your mom, your only mother. No matter the baggage, that is a fact. 

However, your marriage and possible children are now your primary family. You all need to protect each other as a unit, a new family unit.

It might be that you have to have a separate relationship with your mother, and that would be sad, especially if you have children.  Leaving aside children, your husband needs to respect your relationship with your mother, your only mother. The burden would be her derision of your husband, a burden which you might need to bear alone in order to preserve your marriage. 

Convince her otherwise? Grin and bear her criticisms? Such a burden upon you... what's her beef?

[pursuingJoy]

Choosinghope, I'm in your H's position so I'll take a stab at responding. Important clarification: my H is far more enmeshed than you are. From what you're writing I can tell you've come to accept much of the reality.

I can completely relate to your H's reaction about restoring contact. My MIL's jabs have been primarily directed at me. My H's kneejerk reaction was to defend her with zero to little validation about the way I felt. Everyone else in her life learned to step around her. No one held her accountable for her actions. I resented that I was being asked to do the same, at immense personal cost. He was primarily concerned about what it would cost him, not the impact it had on me. I was told that I didn't really care about family since I was NC with my own NPD dad, which was incredibly condescending and hurtful.

I really do understand that it's his mom. The judgment he cast for being NC with my own dad was out of his own discomfort, to make me back off. I've decided not to take that personally. The reality is he wants a relationship with her, no matter how much she's hurt him, and how much she's hurt me. It's not a choice I would make, but I can still respect him as an individual.

Based on my experience being in your H's shoes, the things below would have helped or did help me.

1. Get some version of teamwork going between you and H. Identify common ground, the parts of this that you agree on, even if it's just as simple as you want the marriage to work, you value and respect each other, you want peace, you will prioritize your marriage, etc.
2. Right and wrong need to be put aside. Think instead about manageable levels of anxiety.
3. Let him know what your boundaries are, and how you plan to reinforce those boundaries. Then follow through. This was critical for me because it really felt like my H had no boundaries with his mom. That made me feel very unsafe, that it was open season at all times, she had free reign. If he were to identify and verbalize what his limits were and how he would react to end the behavior and protect us, I'd have a little more faith.
4. This is one moment in time on a continuum. No need to decide everything all at once, right now. What you decide now can be increased or decreased, depending on how things are going. Nothing is set in stone. If your goals are long-term, there's nothing wrong with moving at your husband's pace, is there?  
5. Validate the way your husband feels and respond accordingly. It reduced my level of defensiveness more than anything else he did. When he allowed his mom to say and do whatever she wanted to me, I lost trust in him.
6. Marriage counseling was huge.
7. Learning about BPD.

My goal is to offer what helped or would help me, please pick and choose whatever works for you. Zero judgment. I've learned so much about what children of BPD's go through so I empathize with my H's struggles, and I respect what you're trying to accomplish here.

these are initial thoughts but I'm happy to help you brainstorm. I know there are others like Spindle that are also in your H's position, hopefully they'll chime in.

pj

[Choosinghope]

PJ, thank you so much for your encouragement. It means a lot. 

. Important clarification: my H is far more enmeshed than you are. From what you're writing I can tell you've come to accept much of the reality.

Yes, from what I have read of your posts, your H and I are in different levels of acceptance right now. At least I'm making some progress!

The reality is he wants a relationship with her, no matter how much she's hurt him, and how much she's hurt me.

I feel like I'm at a different angle here. Though I would like a relationship, I definitely am approaching this new contact with the mentality that I am going to enforce boundaries so that she will not be nearly as able to hurt me or my H. I am not going to sacrifice mine or my H's emotional health or well-being for this relationship.
I'm driven to have this relationship by two main things: 1) Having a relationship with her means I get to have a relationship with my Dad that's not "secret." 2) I am a strong Christian, and I take the commandment to "honor your Father and Mother" seriously. Of course, honoring does not mean to allow abuse or control, but I strongly feel that honoring in this case means making my best attempt at extending grace and love to her in a safe way. I hope that makes sense. So that is really what is pushing me forward to have contact.

1. Get some version of teamwork going between you and H. Identify common ground, the parts of this that you agree on, even if it's just as simple as you want the marriage to work, you value and respect each other, you want peace, you will prioritize your marriage, etc.

We have started doing this the last few days, and yes! So helpful. I will continue to really push for our common ground as we have these discussions.

2. Right and wrong need to be put aside. Think instead about manageable levels of anxiety.

Can you give me a good example of this please?

Let him know what your boundaries are, and how you plan to reinforce those boundaries. Then follow through.

Ok, yes, I am very on board with this one, and I can see how it is important. The more we've talked since his initial reaction, the more I have been able to explain the concept of developing boundaries and enforcing boundaries. We were able to have a really good discussion of our values and how we would feasibly protect those values, and I think that he is starting to understand just what a boundary is. We still quite a lot of work ahead of us, but I can see that this is probably the best starting point. He needs to know that I'm not jumping into this without a plan to put him first and protect our marriage.

Validate the way your husband feels and respond accordingly. It reduced my level of defensiveness more than anything else he did. When he allowed his mom to say and do whatever she wanted to me, I lost trust in him.

I think this is an area I need to work on. I've been kind of wrapped up in "Poor me, this is so hard on me, etc." and I don't think that I've given him the space to really express his own hurt or anger. As I am working on healing, I need to let him do the same thing. Thank you for the reminder.

This is one moment in time on a continuum. No need to decide everything all at once, right now. What you decide now can be increased or decreased, depending on how things are going. Nothing is set in stone. If your goals are long-term, there's nothing wrong with moving at your husband's pace, is there? 

I think that this is something that I really need to give more thought. And you're right. There really is no time crunch. My parents are still relatively young, so no concerns about being needed as caretakers. My goals are long-term, and it really does behoove me to spend the time to re-establish contact when both me and my H feel comfortable. I think that even if he says he supports me and trusts me, jumping into something before he's completely ready will just cause more resentment and problems down the road. I'll definitely take this to heart.

I really appreciate your insight, as I know that this is something that you have a very good insight into. I'm realizing that this is all just hard, no matter what position you're in.

[Spindle0516]

Choosinghope!

Like PJ said, I am in your husband's shoes and understand much of what you are both going through.

I just typed a whole response, but then my internet connection dropped and I lost all of it!       

It is late here, so I am going to have to redo my post tomorrow, but I just wanted to take a minute to say you are not alone. Check back and I promise I will write in more detail. 

[pursuingJoy]

Spindle I'm sorry you lost all that work! Looking forward to your input.

Choosinghope you have so many great thoughts.    

Can you give me a good example of this please?

When H and I disagree, it can devolve into both of us thinking we're right and arguing from that space. I think I'm right to set boundaries and not allow myself, or him, to be treated badly. He thinks he's right to love his mom and take care of her, and be understanding in her old age, and besides, "it's wrong to cut your parents off." I remind him that I made the decision to go NC with my missionary pastor NPD dad after years of various types of abuse. He normally validates that, he knows my story, but because I'm backing him against a wall with my value, he sticks with, "it's wrong to cut your parents off, they're your parents."

I now feel confused, hurt, judged, and defensive. So does he.

Instead of arguing morals, I've found it more effective to say, "This is what I want. What do you want?" In my situation, there isn't an ideal arrangement that will give all of us what we want. There are shades of gray, manageable levels of anxiety to consider. We need to sort through what is going to work as best as possible for both of us.

(I'm also a Christian so I get where you're coming from with honoring your father and mother. A pastor and licensed counselor I know once said that honoring abusive parents meant accepting that they did the best they could with what they had. Radical acceptance of their effort, their baggage, and abuse. Not sure if that resonates with you, but that perspective allowed me to accept my dad for all of his flaws and strengths and hurts, and say honestly that he did the best he could. It doesn't change my NC decision, but it gives my heart breathing room to accept what happened, why, and allow me to move forward.)

Caveat here: terms like wives being submissive and honoring your father and mother were used to justify abuse in my family. Dan Allender's "Bold Love" is a really helpful tool that helped me sort through boundaries, including LC and NC, from a Biblical perspective.

I don't think that I've given him the space to really express his own hurt or anger. As I am working on healing, I need to let him do the same thing.

This is definitely a dynamic we share. Is there something we can do differently to be heard? Not getting emotional or using inflammatory language would probably help. What do you think contributes to this dynamic?

I think that even if he says he supports me and trusts me, jumping into something before he's completely ready will just cause more resentment and problems down the road.

This is wise. There have been times when I thought I was ready and I really wasn't. H and I can agree in theory, but not in practice. It might help to talk through the fine print first. How will you respond when you initiate contact and your mom either ignores your H or puts him on blast? How will you structure visits? If she makes a snarky comment that you didn't hear, how and when should he communicate that? Who will address it, or will you agree to ignore it?  

There will be discomfort for all parties at first so leave room for error and give each other space. First time we visited my MIL after a period of me being LC, he stuck to her like glue, wouldn't leave her side. It was unconscious and understandable after a lifetime of conditioning, but I didn't prefer being ignored. I didn't get upset but I did point it out. The next time we went up for a funeral, he stood with me.

[Spindle0516]

Okay- Let’s try this again! Like PJ said, I am also in your husband’s shoes. We have been together for 5 years and my MIL has lived with us for 3. We learned about BPD in November.

Like you, we are also in our first year of marriage. We married last June. We started seeing an increase in inappropriate behavior last January, and by October, things got out of control. We ended up calling 911, she ended up in a psych unit at a local hospital, and I was blamed by almost her entire family, apart from my husband and BIL. The three of us made the decision to call for help together, but I bore the brunt of a lot of verbal abuse and really cruel things were said to me. I believe you said somewhere in your post that this is not how you anticipated your first year of marriage and I couldn’t agree more. This year has been hard.

Dealing with a BPD parent is challenging. I don’t envy the shoes you are in at all, but with that being said, I often felt overlooked as we dealt with how to navigate daily life with my MIL. We focused on responding to her appropriately, even before we knew about BPD. We know now much of what we did likely made things harder for us, but nonetheless, the focus was often on her and her behavior. And then it was on my husband because it was his mom we were dealing with and it was hard for him. And I often felt forgotten in a lot of it.

I was asked a lot to ignore her behavior, ignore mean things she said because it is “just how she jokes around” and to not react to things she said and did that drove us nuts. I complied with a lot of that for a while., but eventually just asking me to ignore or modify my behavior was enough to make me feel really, really angry. My husband acknowledging the effect that she was having on us and on me specifically was a really important step for our relationship.

I am curious what your husband’s relationship with his family is like. My family is fairly close and I understand wanting to be there for them. We are far from perfect and there are a lot of issues, but my husband was and is often baffled by how much we genuinely enjoy each other and how we often go out of our way for each other, not out of some feeling of obligation or duty, but because we genuinely want to.

I have no problem with my husband wanting to be there for his mom. I want to be there for his mom. Family is one of the things that I value most. What left me utterly confused was why abusive and just mean behavior was not only just tolerated but was expected and accepted. I was raised to not allow myself to be subject that type of behavior and was never tolerated in our household without consequences. It was so baffling to me- I never encountered that before and it took me a long time to unpack. Truth be told, I am still unpacking it.

Anyway, I was also going to compile a list of things I found helpful, but honestly mine basically echoes what PJ already wrote, so I am just going to expand on a few of those.

Learn about BPD

Is your husband willing to embark on the learning process with you? Both of us learning about BPD has done wonders for my relationship with my husband and my MIL. It helped me actually understand that I was dealing with someone with a mental health disorder and that much of her behavior, however inappropriate, was often beyond her control. It wasn’t a vendetta against me specifically.
My husband and I even took a class for family members of people with BPD together and that really helped us find some common ground and gave us a launching point to navigate the changes we needed to make.


Boundaries/Validation

Like PJ said, I would definitely communicate what your boundaries are and how you plan to reinforce them. I would add to that and say to ask him if he has any boundaries that he would also like to be respected. When my husband recognized that my limits and boundaries are different than his, it was much easier to find a way to move forward.
Let me know if you want to expand on this some more. PJ- did you find this to be your experience as well?

Right/Wrong

Just echoing PJ. Instead of always arguing, it has been more effective to say, “This is how I feel” or “This is what I want” and then “What do you want/How do you feel?”

Take your time

Yes. Yes. Yes.
My situation is slightly different than yours because my MIL lives with us. It became critical that we moved with a sense of urgency because things were really bad in our house. I wish that we had time to really learn and understand BPD and how it affects our relationship before we jumped into all of it.

Taking the time to find some common ground, being able to establish boundaries and values for each of you as individuals and as a couple and learning how to communicate as you navigate this will be a huge strength for all of you.

Be Patient

I am adding this one. There is so much to learn and this is a process. You probably will mess up. Make sure you offer yourself and him some grace and patience as you navigate this.

I think that about sums up my experience- feel free to disagree if any of it does not apply to you. If you need more help brainstorming, I am also happy to help! 

[pursuingJoy]

My husband acknowledging the effect that she was having on us and on me specifically was a really important step for our relationship.

Just to provide some perspective, my H has not reached this point. His reaction has been, "Yeah mom is quirky but you're way too sensitive."

In other moments he takes all of the blame on himself, saying that he's the problem. It's my fault or his, but never his mom's.

I am curious what your husband’s relationship with his family is like.

Pretty key point, Spindle. I'm guilty of having values about family that I apply to H, as is he. Takes some mindfulness to sort it all out.

When my husband recognized that my limits and boundaries are different than his, it was much easier to find a way to move forward.

Critical. We are very hung up here. He knows that my limits are different but assigns blame to me and does not want to change anything about how he relates to her.

I am thankful he has agreed to marriage counseling. He has also curbed his financial dependence on her, which I appreciate.

[Choosinghope]

Thank you ladies both for your insight. It has really helped me the last few days in communicating with my H.

his is definitely a dynamic we share. Is there something we can do differently to be heard? Not getting emotional or using inflammatory language would probably help. What do you think contributes to this dynamic?

I'm not sure if this will help, but I will explain what typically happens in our conversations. My H will get angry or frustrated or overwhelmed with this whole situation (my mom, my reaction to my mom, external frustrations related to my mom, etc.). He will say something like, "I'm so tired of your mom controlling our life." or "This would all be so much easier if we didn't have to deal with her." or "Why does this all have to be so difficult? I never had these problems before." All of which are very reasonable, true things for him. However, because I'm a newly-married woman dealing with a lot of crap and high emotions, I hear, "Just look at the problems that YOU'VE caused in my life, and I would be so much happier without you." As you can imagine, that usually turns the conversation into a fight. Now that I'm recognizing my own reactions and learning how to listen without internalizing, we've been making progress in this area. I think the biggest thing that you can do to be heard (but again, this is coming from a woman brain) is to really emphasize that it is not your H that you are frustrated with directly. Unless of course it is, but I guess that's another situation 

A pastor and licensed counselor I know once said that honoring abusive parents meant accepting that they did the best they could with what they had. Radical acceptance of their effort, their baggage, and abuse.

Hm, I think that I can work with this. Thank you for sharing. I've been having a very difficult time with the honoring thy parent command, especially when the parent isn't doing very honorable things. The other part of that, which you can most definitely relate to I'm sure, is that my mom has often used this as a weapon. If I do something she doesn't like or agree with, the response is often, "I can't believe you can call yourself a Christian and be so terrible to me! I'm ashamed that I raised a daughter like you." That, of course, has raised confusion about obedience vs. honor in my mind, and I'm very thankful that my pastor talked about that at length in my pre-marital counseling. Another way I've been trying to think of honoring her has been to accept who she is--thorns and all-- without demonizing or maligning her. I don't know if that is the true meaning of "honoring," but it seems to make sense for me.

I am curious what your husband’s relationship with his family is like. My family is fairly close and I understand wanting to be there for them. We are far from perfect and there are a lot of issues, but my husband was and is often baffled by how much we genuinely enjoy each other and how we often go out of our way for each other, not out of some feeling of obligation or duty, but because we genuinely want to.

My H grew up in a very loving, functional family. Being a part of his family has truly let me see what it means to be loved, respected, and supported unconditionally. As an example, my H's brother made some choices earlier in his life that everyone kind of agrees were bad, and he is living with a lot of those results now--one of them a child (who is so adorable!  ) His parents did what they could to help and encourage from the sidelines, and they have honestly done a fantastic job of letting him feel consequences while still loving and supporting as appropriate. They can grieve over the situation, but they can still love him and his daughter like nothing happened. Conversely, if I had done that, there is absolutely no way my mom would have any contact with me, ever. She would have taken it as a personal attack, been in bed with depression for at least a few weeks, and made the situation so much worse than needed. My H has really struggled to understand just how much of my mom's behavior has been normalized in my family, and why no one has bothered to stand up to her before me. It's a hard question, and like you, I am still unpacking it. I think that deep down, my H knows that I love my family and that they're important to me, but he's scared of them. He's scared of their effects of me, him, our marriage, our future family, and our happiness. I can't say I blame him.

Like I said earlier, we've made some good progress over the weekend. I was able to re-evaluate some of my own thinking, and that helped us in our conversations. Something else that a friend told me last week really helped as well. She pointed out that how I handle my mom doesn't just affect me anymore, but it affects both my H and my marriage. My H and I might both be emotionally ready for a relationship, but our marriage might not be. My mom's words and actions would have been far less damaging 10 years into our marriage as opposed to 2 months. Our marriage just might need time to grow and strengthen before adding in a potentially destructive force. And just because now isn't the right time, it doesn't mean that it never will be.

So, we are working on being on the same page, and I'm fairly optimistic that we will be able to tackle this problem together, in time. My current goals here are:
1) Be honest with my dad when we pushes for a reason why I am not willing to "talk things out" with my mom. I have been skirting the issue thus far because it is so hard to talk about with him.
2) Let my H have more voice and be a better listener of his thoughts/feelings.
3) Evaluate all three factors--my emotional health, my H's emotional health, and the strength of our marriage--before making any decisions about my mom.
4) Not letting FOG be any factor in my decision making process (so much harder than it seems, I'm realizing!)

Thank you all for your help!

[pursuingJoy]

I think the biggest thing that you can do to be heard (but again, this is coming from a woman brain) is to really emphasize that it is not your H that you are frustrated with directly.

Thanks for sharing this piece of advice from where you stand. For some reason it's opposite for us. H is so desperately conditioned to defend his mom that he is more calm and less defensive if my issue is with him, because then he can control the outcome. If my issue is with his mom, he no longer controls the outcome and he panics. I don't know how to explain it other than enmeshment.  

She pointed out that how I handle my mom doesn't just affect me anymore, but it affects both my H and my marriage. Our marriage just might need time to grow and strengthen before adding in a potentially destructive force. And just because now isn't the right time, it doesn't mean that it never will be.

Can't tell you how much I love this. Bravo times ten. I'm so happy to hear that you feel better about how things are going. You'll have rough patches again, for sure, but there's progress and that's amazing.  

1) Be honest with my dad when we pushes for a reason why I am not willing to "talk things out" with my mom. I have been skirting the issue thus far because it is so hard to talk about with him.

Often people who are in enabler positions (and your dad may not be) get very defensive and feel threatened with an honest perspective. On the other hand, it may go great. What's your goal in being open with him? What's your approach?

Love your goals. You are doing fabulous work and I'm cheering you on from my corner of the world.  
pj

[MamaLlamaDrama]

Hi! I'm in the same position as your husband. My husband's mother has UBPD. We've been married for almost 3 years. We have a 1.5 year old daughter. Before we got engaged my MIL and I had a great relationship. She would dote on me/us and I'm a very open and honest person and I would share a lot with her. Tension built during the wedding planning process and then exploded after my daughter's birth. There are too many stories to even know where to begin. My husband and I started counseling together and separately. It has been amazing. We've tried to mend things since my daughter's birth and it felt like MIL kept shooting herself in the foot. She kept making it harder and harder until she verbally attacked us at my BIL's wedding. That was 6 month's ago. We haven't spoken to her since.
Our therapist was the one who mentioned that it sounded like MIL might have BPD. Since then I've been reading everything I can get my hands on to understand what this means.
My husband is aware that BPD is probably what we're dealing with, but he isn't ready to learn about it. I try my best to understand that her actions are because of BPD, but it's very hard. I have to be honest and say that I hate her. I do not use that word lightly. I don't like that I hate her. The feeling wears me down and I've tried many different ways to try to forgive her. I know an apology isn't coming. I know I'm being made out to be a villain with their family and friends. I've told my husband that I will be around her if he can get to a point where he can be around her, but I question myself for saying this. I really want to mean it, but I'm scared. I don't want my daughter involved at all. I can (barely) stomach the thought of being around my MIL until I think of my daughter and then I totally lose it. So I guess I don't have much advice besides therapy and having your husband read and learn as much as possible about the disorder. You'll never really be on the same page. She's your mother. But if you can at least respect and understand each other that will help immensely.
Good luck. It's so confusing and lonely. I've always been very good at communicating and handling confrontation. Any skills I have are completely useless here and have honestly just made things worse.

[Choosinghope]

Hi MLD!

Thank you for sharing. Reading your post made me even more thankful that I am learning everything that I am before we have kids. My mom's drama has already tainted my wedding; I don't want her to poison my first memories of my future kids as well.

Anyway, from talking to my H, I think he feels much the same way you do. He has a really bad feeling--maybe fear--about what will come with contact again. I had assumed previously that he was just mad and defensive because my mom has attacked him so badly. With more conversation, I'm realizing that her words don't have much influence on him. He legitimately just doesn't want her to be a part of his life. Recognizing that has helped us find more of a middle ground. The other obstacle is that he's not willing to invest any time learning about BPD. He is in full support of me buying all the books, spending money on therapy, journaling, venting and doing everything I need to heal. He just won't do it for himself. His perspective is that he never plans on having a relationship with my mom beyond showing up to family functions and smiling politely, so it's not worth his time. I think that's an area that I need to not push for now. It'll be more important to figure out our boundaries and work together than to fight him on the BPD education.

The other part of your post I found interesting was your timeline you mentioned with your MIL. My H and I only dated 9 months before getting married, but she also showed the same inconsistency towards him. The first time she met him, she told me in tears that she was so thankful I met such a wonderful man and that she hopes I'm nice to him. A week later, she sent a hateful letter saying that he's a terrible influence and I deserve someone do terrible. A month later, she video called HIM one night to apologize for how she treated him. She apologized tearfully to us both at the wedding and promised to be better. 2 months later, she accused both of us of terrible things and said she was done with us. What? It sounds like some similarly confusing and frustrating things happened with your MIL. It seemed like my mom was really trying to like him, but her dysregulation was just too much part of the time. It makes your head spin!

Last thing, thank you for the commiseration. It is confusing and lonely, and like you said, nothing works on her that normally works. I am very good at communication anf conflict resolution because of my job, and those skills go nowhere with someone who is illogical, inconsistent, emotional, and intensely stubborn. Hang in there, and good luck to you as well!

[Imatter33]

My H will get angry or frustrated or overwhelmed with this whole situation (my mom, my reaction to my mom, external frustrations related to my mom, etc.). He will say something like, "I'm so tired of your mom controlling our life." or "This would all be so much easier if we didn't have to deal with her." or "Why does this all have to be so difficult? I never had these problems before." All of which are very reasonable, true things for him. However, because I'm a newly-married woman dealing with a lot of crap and high emotions, I hear, "Just look at the problems that YOU'VE caused in my life, and I would be so much happier without you."

CH, This almost eerily similar thought plays in my head whenever the topic of my "dysfunctional family" is talked about, but I think it goes deeper than that. The BPD emotional abuse roller coaster somehow made the "everything thats bad is all my fault" thought, one that I am far too accustomed to. When my mother would rage at anything, and I had zero understanding of why as a child, I internalized it to mean something I said or did, brought on her horrifying reaction.  I know this is false (rationally) but too many years of getting a lie reinforced have made me not very rational.

I love my H so much and just as with my mom (whom I also love very much) I want to take away pain, discomfort etc. I am quick to put any bad emotion he feels on myself. I did it just this evening when I failed to find something he needed quickly.  He doesn't blame me as my mom did, but I am so accustomed to "he would be much happier without me, type thoughts I project the bad feelings and damaged self-esteem as coming from him.

I now know... He wants to protect me, but he also wants me to stand the hell up for myself because it is attractive to stop walking on eggshells. I also lived in the perpetual "talk about it until your blue in the face" syndrome. (thats clinical right)  What I have learned here is...let my H feel his feelings, stop trying to fix, and stop apologizing for things outside of your control. (like who your FOO is) Healing comes from loving yourself better than you were taught.

Now that I'm recognizing my own reactions and learning how to listen without internalizing, we've been making progress in this area.

I've been having a very difficult time with the honoring thy parent command, especially when the parent isn't doing very honorable things. The other part of that, which you can most definitely relate to I'm sure, is that my mom has often used this as a weapon. If I do something she doesn't like or agree with, the response is often, "I can't believe you can call yourself a Christian and be so terrible to me! I'm ashamed that I raised a daughter like you." That, of course, has raised confusion about obedience vs. honor in my mind, and I'm very thankful that my pastor talked about that at length in my pre-marital counseling.

There is a quote by Brene Brown that I love and is on a sticky note on my fridge. It may help.
" I can see God in you, I can see love in you, but I am going to hold you accountable for what you have done."  She also says boundaries allow You to make the most generous assumption of someone else. And this means  to know that our mothers are actually doing the best they can...BUT they are not allowed to treat us like   

[Spindle0516]

CH- I am so thankful for this thread. Stories like yours and Imatter's have been such a comfort to me. Seeing other people who are in the early years of their marriage and trying to figure out how to navigate this complex world or BPD has made me feel so much less alone.

My H and I only dated 9 months before getting married, but she also showed the same inconsistency towards him

She pointed out that how I handle my mom doesn't just affect me anymore, but it affects both my H and my marriage. My H and I might both be emotionally ready for a relationship, but our marriage might not be.

Yes. Yes. Yes. My husband and I were together 4 1/2 years before we married, so it is a bit different for us. We also lived together for almost 3 years at the time of our wedding. But for you, in many ways, you are still getting to know each other. You're still learning about each other, figuring out each other's flaws, the things you love about them, but also the things that drive you nuts! You're learning how to coexist in the same space and even figuring out how you like to arrange the utensil drawer is a learning process.

That phase is a transition, and while fun, can be challenging for all couples.

Anyway, from talking to my H, I think he feels much the same way you do. He has a really bad feeling--maybe fear--about what will come with contact again. I had assumed previously that he was just mad and defensive because my mom has attacked him so badly. With more conversation, I'm realizing that her words don't have much influence on him. He legitimately just doesn't want her to be a part of his life.

Recognizing that has helped us find more of a middle ground. The other obstacle is that he's not willing to invest any time learning about BPD. He is in full support of me buying all the books, spending money on therapy, journaling, venting and doing everything I need to heal. He just won't do it for himself. His perspective is that he never plans on having a relationship with my mom beyond showing up to family functions and smiling politely, so it's not worth his time.

I feel sad to hear that he feels this way, although on some level, I do understand. It is hard to be around someone that has been less than kind to you. How does this make you feel?

For me, learning about BPD wasn't even so much about continuing contact with his mom, although I can't say it was not a huge motivator. She lived with us and we were barely holding our heads above water, so we needed tools to survive living with her. But beyond that, it helped me better understand my husband. I feel more connected to him because now I understand him better and I believe that this will only strengthen our marriage. Understanding his past, unstanding this condition that his mom has and how it affects him and us now- I think this all helps me be a better wife and partner.

Anyway, I am hopeful that one day he will decide to learn more about BPD with you because this will affect your life and marriage regardless of maintaining contact or not. BPD has shaped your whole life and affects who you are to this day and it is not something that can be escaped or that goes away by discontinuing contact. But if he truly does not want to interact with her, or does not want to learn about it, then I guess one day you will have to learn what it means to have an independent relationship with her if you decide to resume contact.

 It sounds like some similarly confusing and frustrating things happened with your MIL. It seemed like my mom was really trying to like him, but her dysregulation was just too much part of the time. It makes your head spin!

We went through a similar timeline. Forgive me if I already said this, but too many thoughts to keep up with! Things were mostly fine in regard to my relationship with my MIL until we got engaged and actually started wedding planning. We dealt with BPD complications daily but not so much in regard to my relationship with her directly.

Anyway, I have come to realize that it is not so much about having her like me as it is about having healthier interactions with her. She is and will be a part of our life regardless of where she lives, and I know that how she feels about me will change depending on what is happening at any given moment. She has uBPD, so this will likely happen for the rest of our lives, or hers at least, and cannot be helped in all likelihood.

What is more important to me is that when she dysregulstes, my husband and I are prepared to respond in a way that will not continue to escalate the situation. It is more important that we know her dysregulation really has nothing to do with us, but is an inappropriate expression of how she is feeling in that moment.

Reading your post made me even more thankful that I am learning everything that I am before we have kids. My mom's drama has already tainted my wedding; I don't want her to poison my first memories of my future kids as well.

Me too! We are not sure about kids yet, but it was still a major reason for us deciding she cannot continue to live with us. If we want any shot at raising kids in a healthy environment, we knew that we needed to understand BPD and what was happening around us, and how it continues to affect us now in relation to her and each other.

So much to figure out during a time that you really just want to be joyful and carefree, huh?

There is a quote by Brene Brown that I love and is on a sticky note on my fridge. It may help.
" I can see God in you, I can see love in you, but I am going to hold you accountable for what you have done."  She also says boundaries allow You to make the most generous assumption of someone else. And this means  to know that our mothers are actually doing the best they can...BUT they are not allowed to treat us like  

Bahhhh. Imatter, I love this!

And finally, how are you doing with the goals you set for yourself?
  

[Mata]

It is more important that we know her dysregulation really has nothing to do with us, but is an inappropriate expression of how she is feeling in that moment.

This is such a good insight.  Something I need to remember more often with my mom.  I wrote it down in my journal to refer back to.