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Skills we were never taught
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Author Topic: How to help BPD daughter with debt  (Read 1366 times)
Sadiestar

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Mother
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« on: February 18, 2020, 12:32:36 AM »

How do I best support my BP D25 out of debt? I've been through it all before with her when she was in her late teens but we're now in the same (or worse probably) situation as we were back then. Her spending is compulsive and impulsive and she is unable to budget so the debt just keeps getting bigger. Plus, her cohabiting relationship with her boyfriend has inevitably failed, making her liable for two sets of rent, bills, etc.
My mother, D's caring Nana, has obliquely suggested we/I 'sort it out' for her which I could just about manage financially. But I'm pretty sure this is not the right thing to do (boundaries) and that we would end up in the same position,as she wouldn't have learnt anything and isn't gaining any independence or sense of responsibility. Am I hoping for too much that she can somehow get out of this financial mess? I now feel I am being judged negatively by MY mum. D is very unwell, lonely, threatening self harm and suicide so I am lost in the FOG and maybe my mum is right. I should just 'sort it out'. What do others do/think?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 07:47:55 AM by FaithHopeLove » Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
PeaceMom
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 06:57:09 AM »

Sadie,
I have no answers but I do have some thoughts. First off, I’m filled with compassion for your DD. Spiraling debt is engulfing and scary. Now that being said, my T would say “put on your wet suit and zip it all the way up so you don’t absorb HER stuff. Then put on your most mature functional adult hat and think!”

Does she want help? Would she allow you to brainstorm with her? If so, you can come along side her making 2 or 3 suggestions for each issue and supporting her mentally as she makes choices. For example, you could suggest she cut up card or put on a limit. You could suggest she call a credit counseling service, you could attend a Debt support group with her. You could offer to sit with her as she calls and tries to negotiations debt reduction.

If she does some of these things for herself and gets support from a group or a T, maybe you could offer to match what she can pay.

I’m thinking out loud here and there is no “right” answer, but there is a next best step. What do you think that may be?

I’m sending you a big ((HUG)
Peacemom
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FaithHopeLove
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 07:52:25 AM »

I like all of Peacemom's suggestions. These are ways of helping without rescuing or enabling.
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Done-er Stepdad

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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 03:40:28 PM »

We found that the more we did financially, the less she did for herself and the more entitled she felt. How big a hole do you want to dig for yourself for nothing? Our's was six figures.

Her bills are not your problem. Her bills are the problem of anyone who was dumb enough to give her credit.

It's up to them to try to collect from her and for her to live with the headaches of trying to get a credit card or having to pay an extra $100 a month when she goes for a car loan.

A lot of employers and most renters do a credit check these days. At some point, the slow drip of real life consequence will motivate her to sort out her credit rating.

Since we have stopped enabling the kid's financial madness, she has progressed in terms of responsibility from an F- to a solid D+. Viva La Progress!
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Sadiestar

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 03:57:03 PM »

Thank you for your replies. They are so helpful and I feel comforted and in safe hands at last, listening to people who seem to have had similar experiences and walked in my shoes already, in regard to their adult kids. Though I am really sorry that you have had the same troubles...
When I read back on my post, I'm now thinking 'why am I even worrying or posting about debt?' It seems ridiculously stupid and trivial when other parents (and me) have been and are going thru such dark times. I think I choose to 'forget' some of the even bigger issues cos I just can't bear to remember events or think about the painful present. It's like all the hurt, humiliation and nasty scenes are locked up in a drawer (too small) shipping container, more like, in part of my mind. I can only deal with little bits at a time and the practical problems, although enormous,are easier to talk about and make me feel less exposed. Is this why a lot of parents seek therapy themselves? I'm not there yet and choosing to self medicate at the moment.
Feeling guilty now for bleating about myself, instead of my D.
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PeaceMom
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 04:18:55 PM »

This is very complex with many moving parts from the small to huge. When we are in full blown crisis mode it’s the big stuff we must be supported with -jail, suicidal ideation, drugs, abuse. In between our crises, we need to be supported with the daily challenges and boundaries w/our extremely disordered L.O.

People respond here based on their experience and/or their similar situation at the time. No guilt allowed here! We all need to feel free to share and be supported no matter where we are at that particular time.

Big hug to you,
Peacemom
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Done-er Stepdad

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 05:29:52 PM »

Reality check:

It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about being stuck with someone who would drain you of every last dime if they could. That is the very definition of a real problem.

Having you on the back foot, second guessing yourself is how she keeps the merry go round spinning. You have a right to live in peace, in health, and in financial security.

If you're even talking about self-medicating instead of just wallowing in it, you're already a lot further down the road to recovery than you know at the moment.
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wavewatcher
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2020, 07:48:25 PM »

Sadie,
I am so sorry for what you have been and are going through. I credit the awesome people here as well as my own therapist and self-care for literally keeping me out of a black hole of depression. Nobody understands what we go through like those of us who live with a BPD person.  And you are living with one. You deserve lots of support.

All of their behaviors and actions impact us. Your d's debt will be yours again unless you set boundaries, as others have said.  Our adult BPD's have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I paid off my live-in BPD25dd's credit card for the last time last month and took it from her.  She has no access to money from me unless she earns it by doing jobs around the house first. If she wants more she knows she has to get a job, which is problematic for her. But I am no longer her ATM.  Her dad is learning but not as firm, unfortunately.  So be kind to yourself. You deserve it.
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Done-er Stepdad

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 09:11:38 PM »

In BPD, everything is a black hole that can never be filled. And that goes double for money.

We gave up on her doing chores for money years ago. She could not ever keep an agreement. Now there are no more agreements, period.

Zaniest rip-off ever: She borrowed money to buy boots. She repaid my wife with a single $20 bill wrapped around a stack of $1 bills. When confronted, she said it was in response to other (still unspecified) grievances.

But in a rare happy BPD ending, another crazy person stole just one of the boots at a party.

Just one boot. That is BPD-torturing at its most brilliant.
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Sillyusername

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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2020, 06:28:54 AM »

I’d point her to a debt charity who will give her advice. If you pay her debt she will just spend again. They need to learn natural consequences. I told my son no more and he’s working and now consolidating his debt from drugs last year into a interest free card. He’s proud of what he’s doing and it’s making him grow up because to be honest I was making him more of an invalid than he is. I give advice if he asks but I usually point to professionals because if I advise him then I got blamed.

He’s literally just messaged there to tell me he’s been accepted onto a college course starting in August. He’s going to work part time too if he wants to keep his car. Nobody pays our bills as adults so it’s about letting go and letting them learn.
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wavewatcher
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2020, 10:28:54 AM »

I did have immediate regrets when I paid d's card (about $1,000) because I took away
a big part of her motivation to get a job. Her biggest feel-good for the last year is that she has had an excellent credit report because when she was working she paid her card. Then she nose-dived and went on a spending spree, lost her job, spiraled out of control, was hospitalized and moved in with us. I saw the mounting finance charges as something we would end up paying eventually because she says she's still going through Xanax withdrawal and can't work. But it was her card, not mine. Not my credit report. I didn't think it through.
So now I'm trying to do the next best thing by not giving her any money at all. If she does no chores she gets no money from me. She tries to shame me into giving her money, yells and screams, etc. Dad gives her a little here and there, which satisfies her need of the moment, and enables her to continue her behavior. She says she's going to look for a job, but does so half-heartedly. I told Dad that he is enabling her, but he operates in FOG, which I talked to him about.  It is so exhausting.
 
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
PeaceMom
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2020, 01:10:50 PM »

WW,
How do you respond when she starts raging at you? I find that those of us w/PwBPD living at home who are screaming, slamming,  ragers have a very, very difficult daily life.  I’m always looking for specific examples here of how to coexist with a rager.  Apparently, some w/BPD are the quiet type where they internalize most things. This is exactly opposite of my DD20. She demands that her presence be known and all her feelings, frustrations and needs be known, as well.

I try to quietly walk away when this begins. This happens at least once every single day.

Don’t beat yourself up about covering her CC. You can use Wisemind next time and decide your best course of action. When an adult is screaming, crying, raging within a few feet of me, I tend to take defensive action, too. My goal is to slow down and think things thru and not react. Much harder when they are right here with you. I dream of the day when she lives away and I can CHOOSE  to see her not.
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Dog ma

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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2020, 01:32:32 PM »

Debt is a common thread among people with BPD.

My 27d has an incredible amount of debit stemming from manic spending sprees, to vacations, to student loans (she could have lived at home and worked her way through her 2 year program). I bailed her out several years ago at the tune of $5000. And since then I have tried to coach her about financial responsibility. But hey, she knows best.

It’s definitely very difficult to let that go, but I have learned that this is a piece that never gets her into crisis. So I concentrate on other things like is she still alive and is she safe.

❤️

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wavewatcher
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2020, 03:53:59 PM »

Amen PM.
I have also learned to walk away and not engage, taking myself upstairs and quietly shutting the door.  She no longer tries to invade my boundaries by pounding on the door.

My dd hates being dx BPD/BP2, hates it, but she knows it's true. The good news is that since being dx her tirades have become shorter and she cycles out quicker.  She also apologizes, which she would never do before and we acknowledge her behavior changes and apologies when they happen.  Maybe she thinks that her explosive behavior only justifies her dx. She does say she wants to get better.  But that is her choice.  I loved "The Bridge" fable btw.

She'll be starting with a new T soon, one more experienced with PD's.  She still tries to blame me for all of her adult negative behavior but hopefully the new T will help her with that. 
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PeaceMom
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2020, 06:14:17 PM »

WW, you post made me realize that DD doesn’t run after me or appear in my bedroom at all hours of night like she did from ages 13-19. I think that is a bit of progress.
Unfortunately, my T says being on the receiving end of screaming ranting and raving on a regular basis with someone your cohabitate with is akin to domestic abuse and that it always affects the one being targeting.
I’m allowing her to live her, so basically I’m tolerating her outbursts bc I honestly don’t think she can control herself. But at the end of the day, I live with PTSD symptoms. A victim is one without choices so I suppose I’m not a victim! Im learning my own self compassion and not enabling DD other than providing shelter are the best I can do right now.
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wavewatcher
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2020, 06:53:19 PM »

PM,
Last week I had an EMDR treatment for the episode in January in which dd slapped me, pushed me down and pulled my hair out.  I was definitely experiencing PTS from it and from the years of screaming, violence, etc. I just didn't realize how much until after that incident, which was extremely violent.  Movies or TV shows with people yelling at or hurting each other were triggering me for the first time in my life. The EMDR helped shift things in my brain and I will be getting another treatment soon.  I recommend it. Your T is right; we live in a war zone.
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PeaceMom
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2020, 07:47:25 PM »

WW,
I’m so sorry to hear about that horror, but from what I’ve read EMDR can provide so much relief for big Ts (traumas). Our goal is to fill up our buckets with good, healthy stuff and make sure to patch the holes in the bottom so it doesn’t drain right out.

I’m thankful for the fellow parents on this board. I’m gaining knowledge from the collective wisdom shared here.
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