Bumping into BPD ex, rebound, coffee date, block. Part 2

[Adrian26]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342216.0

Well nvm:

Tried to leave a voicemail to offer her a safe way to express her feelings, but even that part is blocked.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

i wouldnt pursue this further.

shes spinning. let her self soothe on this, and get back to baseline.

[Adrian26]

Youre right. Its hard though, to watch helplessly when shes clearly going through a lot. Thanks for the clearcut advice.

[PeteWitsend]

Youre right. Its hard though, to watch helplessly when shes clearly going through a lot. Thanks for the clearcut advice.

persons with BPD are ALWAYS "going through a lot" though.

my take is people like her are more concerned with knowing you want them, than they are with actually having a relationship with you, and certainly a lot more than they are concerned with your feelings, and how their behavior affects you. 

and I would be surprised to learn a pwBPD actually cares about how their behavior affects those around them at all... maybe only when "the cameras are on" so to speak, and their public treatment of others threatens to affect their reputation.

[khibomsis]

Adrian26, don't watch. Use the time you have free to browse the board, learn from other's stories and otherwise work on your own growth.

I struggle to practice this myself, but with experience it gets easier. Improving my skills relating to BPD is paying off in all the other areas of my life so it is never time wasted.

 
Khib

[Adrian26]

Dear all,

I didnt expect so many replies to this sob story. Thank you, it makes me feel more understood and like I'm not alone in this struggle.

@Pete: I hesitate to embrace your cynism on all this, but I cannot deny seeing that same pattern in my ex. She cannot commit, yet she does not want to let go. Additionally, her 'abuse' or weird behaviour is almost always isolated from our group of friends. Also, I am often surprised by the negative views some of her inner circle have about me. It seems like she's spinning very negative stories about me when I'm not around, and also only to those who are definitely on her side (best friends, family, etc.)

@Khib, thank you for your kind words. At the same time, I feel like I've been reading a lot about BPD, both in books and on this website and board. At first, I started reading into BPD to validate my own feelings. Later on, when I was able to admit my own mistakes, I read about BPD in the hopes of getting back together.
At this point... I actually feel like I cannot fix this. I cannot fix her. And any attempt at reconciliation will not happen within weeks, or months. It is a horrible realization to have. But the escalations have worsened with every passing month. I still feel hesitant, I still cling to believing our good times were genuine and her BPD is not so deeply enrooted as it seems. But I cannot deny the observations, the insights from literature. The facts pile up. I wanted to think the issues were mostly mine, because that meant I had the choice to put the required effort into fixing us. My gut feeling has increasingly been matched with facts, and that means I have to let go of not only a person I valued and admired deeply, but also of our story in a way. It seems like most if not all of her immense affection, intense 'love', poetry, reconciliations, the intense sex- all the things that made me feel like our connection was incredible, are actually manifestations of her BPD.

I will probably remain active on this board to help others, or maybe to think things over when confusion or nostalgia hits me. But I am quite exhausted. I feel like I cannot put in the required effort to understand her anymore. I was so hopeful when she got vulnerable and her traumas explained her abusive behaviour- finally it all made sense and we had something to work on. But even that was not enough. No amount of reading, advice or effort will change the situation between us at this point. That is not to say I am pessimistic about all BPD relationships, I just slowly arrive at the conclusion that my ex in particular will not change her ways anytime soon, despite her being in 'therapy'. I also feel like I've slowly, but surely, lost respect and love for her. I looked past her actions for nearly nine months, and it drained me. I defended her, I sought explanations, I was willing to see her as a victim. It's really sad, but at this point I do not have the energy anymore to do so. I've held a torch for 'victim ex' for a long time, but cannot muster that compassion anymore. And I'm really sorry for the wounded person she probably deep down is. That person should have emerged by now if she was capable of it- and I cannot reach her.

[Adrian26]

I also feel bad about blocking her. I know that is precisely what her behaviour is looking for: pushing away, then confirmation that indeed she will be abandoned.
But I feel at wits end. I unblocked her an hour ago, because I do not want to affirm her fears, reinforce her cycle. I would like to be a person who, despite the way it ended between us, maybe added to her recovery by not falling prey to her counterproductive ways. But I cannot expose myself to more of these draining, seemingly endless pushpulls and sanity-defying actions. Its interfered with my work, my studies, my physical and mental health. I have engaged in more substance abuse than I have ever believed myself doing. Her actions have so far hurt my feelings and view of her that I cannot even try to use SET anymore. I have to block her. But I feel guilty, I feel like giving up.

Has any of you been at this point? I feel guilty but so tired.

[PeteWitsend]

I also feel bad about blocking her. I know that is precisely what her behaviour is looking for: pushing away, then confirmation that indeed she will be abandoned.

Why does it matter whether she - to her disordered way of thinking - perceives that you've "abandoned" her?  

If instead, you keep pursuing her, do you honestly think the push-pull cycle will ever stop?  Her perception of what you did is so fleeting and unstable that you really can't, or shouldn't dwell on it.  It will change from one minute to the next regardless of what you do.

But I feel at wits end. I unblocked her an hour ago, because I do not want to affirm her fears, reinforce her cycle. I would like to be a person who, despite the way it ended between us, maybe added to her recovery by not falling prey to her counterproductive ways. But I cannot expose myself to more of these draining, seemingly endless pushpulls and sanity-defying actions. Its interfered with my work, my studies, my physical and mental health. I have engaged in more substance abuse than I have ever believed myself doing. Her actions have so far hurt my feelings and view of her that I cannot even try to use SET anymore. I have to block her. But I feel guilty, I feel like giving up.

Has any of you been at this point? I feel guilty but so tired.

I think, if you read some other posts and materials here, you'll hopefully start to understand that no one can help a pwBPD recover (aside from their therapists); they have to make the effort by themselves.  And judging from the books I've read on the topic, a couple years of posting here and reading about others' experiences, it seems to me that the stories of persons recovering from BPD, i.e. recognizing that their behavior is out-of-line and harmful to others, and learning to curb that behavior so as to be able to form emotionally stable relationships, are exceedingly rare... so rare that one should not base their own decisions and choose a course of action based on the possibility of it occuring.  

[khibomsis]

Adrian26, just to clarify. I did not mean do the work on this board for her, but for your own sake. We are community of BPD-sufferers, meaning people whose lives have been the worse for it. We are here to help you through the depression and the grief, and get you back to happy as soon as possible.

PeteWitsend, I think you are saying the same thing?  Adrian26, don't do what you do based on her possible reactions. Do what you need to do for your own mental health.
 
Khib

 

[Adrian26]

Dear all,

I would like to ask you for some advice.

As indicated in previous posts, I am very honestly in the process of letting go. Recent events have shown that my BPD-ex is probably spiralling, but more importantly, the way in which incidents seem to come and go and the cycle only repeats, made me realize that at this point no effort of mine will be enough to change the situation. My ex needs to heal further, and any attempt to a relationship will probably only result in a repetition of steps and disappointment. Additionally, I also need time to forgive and heal, otherwise contact would only lead to accusations and anger from my side.

For the last weeks, as such, there have been no attempts at contact from either side, and we both blocked each other. Naturally I still find myself thinking about her.
What I find most difficult in my process of letting go is the empathy and pity I feel for her and her struggles. Of course I've been angry these past months, and at many times my anger won against my knowledge about BPD. As the time of no contact increases, my anger mostly subsides, and I am reminded of how my ex is a patient rather than intentionally malicious. As we know, BPD  has its core in past trauma, feelings of inferiority and fear of abandonment, and as such toxic coping mechanisms through no fault of the BPD-patient itself.

We should watch out for ourselves and not expose ourselves to toxicity or abuse, and as such need not remain in painful situations or keep a BPD in our lives out of pity. However, I also do not want the breakup between me and my ex to worsen her current state, or to add to trauma or the deeply rooted belief that she is inferior or unworthy of love (she has repeatedly confessed these feelings). Naturally and paradoxically, the mechanisms she and other BPD's often employ cause the very thing they intend to avoid: being considered unloveable, being rejected or pushed away. So in this way they repeat the cycle and reinforce their inner misguided beliefs that they are unloveable or less than others.

I don't want that cycle to repeat in my ex, if I can help it. Yet I also do not want to remain in a situation that is harmful to me. So I want to close things off as gently as I can, and with the hopes of reducing the damage done by our fights, and maybe even leave her with a message that contradicts feelings of her being unloveable.

My intent was to write her a letter. Not patronizing, or overanalyzing our relationship, or justifying my actions or criticizing hers. I want the letter to be neutral yet affectionate, setting boundaries about the distance and explaining in a empathic way why I also blocked her.
Something like:
Dear 'Linda', I am writing this letter because I find it hard to find closure after the fights and criticisms we went through. We started off finding a lot of solace, affection, understanding, respect and fun in one another. While relationships are not always meant to persist, I feel like our connection has unfairly been clouded and damaged by fights and misunderstandings. The way we parted does not do justice to the value of you as a person, nor to the value of our time together. Our fights were not done out of ill intentions, but out of misunderstanding. As such, they define neither of us. I feel no anger because of them. Mistakes are just mistakes. I think fondly of the good times spent with in your company.
As such, I did not block you because I do not like you or do not care for you- because I do. I blocked you in return because I fully believe we have a long way to go in processing recent months and negative events. As long as we do not grant ourselves this space, we will not have the opportunity to heal, and our anger will not have a chance to subside. Our past and connection deserve more than remembering each other anything less than fondly.
I cannot stress enough that you are very much loved - hence the reason I cannot find closure after I criticized you badly. I am happy for meeting you, and at the very least I hope you know your company enriched me.

Something like that, and then something about how I will probably not join the next friends meetup to allow us a breather and ensure she has some fun without fearing confrontation. Finally something like 'good luck on your job hunt, I hope your next step proves satisfying'. The letter is supercheesy, I know, but since she's been acting very out of touch recently I want the message to come across.

What do you guys think? I'm very open to criticism or add-ons to the letter, or even to advice that I should not sent one at all.

Thanks in advance!
Adrian

[PeteWitsend]

Listen, I had been married 5+ years; I felt like I owed her a thorough explanation of why I left and how I felt.

the best advice I received (both on here and in person), was to write the letter and not send it. 

I am glad I never did either; it would have only made me upset as I wrote the letter and dug up memories of her behavior. 

and it would have only provoked a negative response from her if I did send it; either she would read the letter and expect I intended to get back together (nope) leading to bitter feelings for her, or she would read it and deny everything, and try to convince me my own memories, thoughts and feelings were false. 

[Adrian26]

Thanks Pete, as always.

I do not intend to have a conversation about it. She's blocked on all other accounts. She can send a letter but thats it, and its not her style.
Its mainly for closure for me. Naturally I want to help, but that nagging desire to help is the biggest reason I have trouble moving on.

And I will be clear as day that I do not intend to get back together. Again, its mostly for my peace of mind.

[alittleawkward]

As indicated in previous posts, I am very honestly in the process of letting go. Recent events have shown that my BPD-ex is probably spiralling, but more importantly, the way in which incidents seem to come and go and the cycle only repeats, made me realize that at this point no effort of mine will be enough to change the situation. My ex needs to heal further, and any attempt to a relationship will probably only result in a repetition of steps and disappointment. Additionally, I also need time to forgive and heal, otherwise contact would only lead to accusations and anger from my side.

For the last weeks, as such, there have been no attempts at contact from either side, and we both blocked each other. Naturally I still find myself thinking about her.
What I find most difficult in my process of letting go is the empathy and pity I feel for her and her struggles. Of course I've been angry these past months, and at many times my anger won against my knowledge about BPD. As the time of no contact increases, my anger mostly subsides, and I am reminded of how my ex is a patient rather than intentionally malicious. As we know, BPD  has its core in past trauma, feelings of inferiority and fear of abandonment, and as such toxic coping mechanisms through no fault of the BPD-patient itself.

We should watch out for ourselves and not expose ourselves to toxicity or abuse, and as such need not remain in painful situations or keep a BPD in our lives out of pity. However, I also do not want the breakup between me and my ex to worsen her current state, or to add to trauma or the deeply rooted belief that she is inferior or unworthy of love (she has repeatedly confessed these feelings). Naturally and paradoxically, the mechanisms she and other BPD's often employ cause the very thing they intend to avoid: being considered unloveable, being rejected or pushed away. So in this way they repeat the cycle and reinforce their inner misguided beliefs that they are unloveable or less than others.

I don't want that cycle to repeat in my ex, if I can help it. Yet I also do not want to remain in a situation that is harmful to me. So I want to close things off as gently as I can, and with the hopes of reducing the damage done by our fights, and maybe even leave her with a message that contradicts feelings of her being unloveable.

Hi Adrian, I share your experience in such a parallel fashion I'm somewhat comforted by what you've written, and you have managed to put into words what I have never been able to in 9 months. Your perspective on the situation is most commendable, and I truly think your actions thus far have been the best you can do given the situation. Allow me to just remind you though, you should act for yourself now, not for your ex-partner. You have to be your own priority throughout the healing process, or else it will drag and become worse. Do what's best for you, not her.

One thing many members on here echoed to me throughout my grieving was time is the greatest healer, and until you feel heeled, you leave the situation alone. Allow time. Give it time.

My intent was to write her a letter. Not patronizing, or overanalyzing our relationship, or justifying my actions or criticizing hers. I want the letter to be neutral yet affectionate, setting boundaries about the distance and explaining in a empathic way why I also blocked her.

What do you guys think? I'm very open to criticism or add-ons to the letter, or even to advice that I should not sent one at all.

What you have done so far is how I also ended it with my ex. I left it 3 weeks before we caught up, and sent her a letter, which caused a storm of anger that I received for the following 5 months. She took a letter, written in a similar nature to your own, as me asking for us to rekindle. When I responded no, I just needed her to know I was still here for her, I did far greater damage than good. If I could go back now and leave the situation alone for maybe 2 or 3 months before I did such a thing, I would, because I can reflect on just how badly what I thought was a heart felt, friendly gesture, stumped my recovery and obliterated most of the friendship we had left.

I agree with Pete's comment regarding writing letters but keeping them to yourself; every time I felt bothered or sad about the situation, I wrote a letter to my ex in my phone notes, and left them all in a file. After being burnt the first time, I decided that I would only contact her if absolutely necessary. I created a note that listed all the bad things she ever did to me and added to it every time a new memory surfaced. I wrote unsent letters every time I got frustrated about why I felt like I couldn't move on. The list became so long I couldn't look in the file anymore because I had to face how awful the situation had become, until a couple weeks ago, some 9 months after we split up, I was finally able to accept it all and get rid of them because the desire of writing to her in that nature is gone.

My therapist told me to see it as you both having wounds, but only one bandage. You can bandage yourself with these notes (keep them to yourself), but as soon as you send them, you're opening the wound up. If she replies, her bandage is gone too, and before you know it everyone is back to square one. Her feelings are no longer your responsibility, as much as you crave to know that she is okay. Trust me, it only hurts more waiting for a reply that might never come, or one that comes blazing back at you.
 

[Rev]

Youre right. Its hard though, to watch helplessly when shes clearly going through a lot. Thanks for the clearcut advice.

My friend,

Yeah - it is really hard to watch people we care about spin or spiral or suffer - for sure. One of my friends told me once - as hard as it is, you're not going to be able to save her from herself. Only she can do that.

I firmly believe the BPD is on a spectrum. And the best you can do is to determine if she is reachable under "all things being equal" circumstances. Why? because the drama is what disordered people thrive on - because drama around them is what normalizes their reality. Until a person gets help, they will always find a way to go through a lot, regardless of how easy you make it.

I say this not out of judgement but out of objective reality. If you really want to be good to her, clear boundaries - both physical in terms of contact and emotional in terms of your own internal boundaries - are the best thing for her.

Good luck - Godspeed. Be well in your self.

Rev.

[Meridius]

I also feel bad about blocking her. I know that is precisely what her behaviour is looking for: pushing away, then confirmation that indeed she will be abandoned.
But I feel at wits end.

I understand you're feeling bad.  That's the nature of boundaries.  Here's something that happened to me around boundaries.

My BPDw and I and my family had been planning an overseas family visit and she had an overdose just before and was hospitalised for weeks.  She had been really looking forward to it, but I didn't want to travel so close to an OD, without travel insurance and not knowing how she'd handle the stress.  So, my first big boundary was...she's not going.  I told her.

It was hard.  She was angry.  She argued.  I worried about how she would be home by herself while me and my kids (from first marriage) went overseas.  I had to set up other support people.  I did all I could.  And then we got on the plane without her.

A friend who has a lot of wisdom about boundaries congratulated me on the decision.   He said, "Meridius, it sounds like you've got a lot going on.  But that boundary is a clean one and that's good"

Then he said, "You're gonna feel some emotional afterburn.  You'll second guess yourself.  You'll have a carousel of emotions.  And that's normal and things will be alright."

Hope that helps.  If it doesn't, feel free to ignore it.

[PeteWitsend]

... I left it 3 weeks before we caught up, and sent her a letter, which caused a storm of anger that I received for the following 5 months. She took a letter, written in a similar nature to your own, as me asking for us to rekindle. When I responded no, I just needed her to know I was still here for her, I did far greater damage than good.
...

Exactly.  this is why it's pointless: pwBPD are going to derive their own meanings and read their own interpretation into the letter you write, and react in an extreme manner based on that, regardless of what words you write in the letter. 

It would be easier to try to communicate with a monkey in the zoo. 

[once removed]

Exactly.  this is why it's pointless: pwBPD are going to derive their own meanings and read their own interpretation into the letter you write, and react in an extreme manner based on that, regardless of what words you write in the letter. 

it also may be that we, as former (and/or future) romantic partners are sometimes a bit too close to the situation to see how we come off.

Dear 'Linda', I am writing this letter because I find it hard to find closure after the fights and criticisms we went through. We started off finding a lot of solace, affection, understanding, respect and fun in one another. While relationships are not always meant to persist, I feel like our connection has unfairly been clouded and damaged by fights and misunderstandings. The way we parted does not do justice to the value of you as a person, nor to the value of our time together. Our fights were not done out of ill intentions, but out of misunderstanding. As such, I did not block you because I do not like you or do not care for you- because I do. I blocked you in return because I fully believe we have a long way to go in processing recent months and negative events. As long as we do not grant ourselves this space, we will not have the opportunity to heal, and our anger will not have a chance to subside. Our past and connection deserve more than remembering each other anything less than fondly.
I cannot stress enough that you are very much loved - hence the reason I cannot find closure after I criticized you badly. I am happy for meeting you, and at the very least I hope you know your company enriched me.

despite your intentions, this is relitigating the old issues from the relationship, it is about your struggles over the lack of resolution, and it is about how you want her to see them, and you.

and of course a spurned lover is not going to hear that.

those struggles are real Adrian, i felt them too. my ex and i were friends for three years before we got together, and we were together for just shy of three years. it was, for both of us, our first adult relationship, and it ended badly, and traumatically for both of us. some of my biggest struggles were not only over the prospect that we would never communicate again, but with how she would remember me. and i wanted more than anything, to say my piece. for things not to end on that note. they did, though, and i eventually came to peace with that.

you dont have to take that path. but i agree with the idea that if youre going to say anything, do it for you, and be prepared to wash your hands of it.

personally, id still aim for something that you wont regret, that says it all.

I think fondly of the good times spent with in your company.
...
I am happy for meeting you, and at the very least I hope you know your company enriched me.

ultimately, isnt this what you want to say?

[Adrian26]

Hello all,

First of all, thank you for all your replies. Secondly, I hope you are all doing okay under this coronacrisis, and that you and your loved ones are in relative safety.

I work in the local hospital here so I did not have time to respond earlier. I will reply to your posts after, for efficiency reasons let me give an update first.

I took your advice to heart and didn't send the letter. However, my own therapy has been going very well and emotionally I'm becoming much more open. At the same time, the healthcare situation sensitized me further. I've been struggling indeed with closure, because of the earlier mentioned view that she is in fact a patient. And a very sensitive one at that, who might be toxic but did not choose this life. So a month ago she had contacted me twice, sometimes erratically, to tell her how thankful she was for our time together. How much she had grown also because of me. And that she loved me, hoped I was happy, was worried about me, etc.

After my shift two days ago I wrestled with the letter thingy, and in an impulse I gave her a call. I knew I would be redirected to 'on hold' anyway, since I'm blocked. That night however, I noticed she had unblocked me on whatsapp. She had seen my call.
I texted her yesterday morning to ask if  she unblocked me because of my call. She asked me what the call was for. I told her I needed to share something.
I told her that when she called me before, at that point I couldn't respond in the same grateful way, but that I did feel thankful for our time together, and that she had enriched my life (@onceremoved). I also told her that due to therapy I had come to realize that at some points I did not have the insight or empathy to properly see how much she had been hurting at times, and that some of my harsh criticisms hadnt been fair. I expressed my desire that our time together would mostly improve our own processes- not damage or slow them down. I told her I loved her and that she was doing okay.
 
(Hence the reason I contacted her, to validate her feelings and hopefully give her some love on the way out, something constructive to take with her, and so that I could sleep with a little less guilt) = this part I didnt send of course. Obviously, I am also resentful about parts of our time together, but I didn't tell her. I just wanted a cut-off we could both be comfortable with.

She typed and stopped typing for about 10 minutes. Eventually she blocked me, without any response. I wonder why? But I think it was either not the message she wanted or it triggered things.

I wouldn't say I'm sad, its not really a change in things but just a confirmation. Friends thought she again couldnt handle this contact or the words I said, maybe because they triggered a lot of memories and emotions. I do wonder what she was hoping for.

In any case, although there would have been more preferable outcomes, I'm happy I got to say my piece. Naturally some thoughts race through my head again, trying to analyze wth she is going through again, but its getting less and less and at least there is less guilt. I decided I'm not ready to date again with anyone soon, and I got plenty happening in my own life regardless. Slowly building up my self-esteem again, talking with many friends, reconnecting to my identity.

Thank you all for your prompt advice.

[Adrian26]

What you have done so far is how I also ended it with my ex. I left it 3 weeks before we caught up, and sent her a letter, which caused a storm of anger that I received for the following 5 months. She took a letter, written in a similar nature to your own, as me asking for us to rekindle. When I responded no, I just needed her to know I was still here for her, I did far greater damage than good. If I could go back now and leave the situation alone for maybe 2 or 3 months before I did such a thing, I would, because I can reflect on just how badly what I thought was a heart felt, friendly gesture, stumped my recovery and obliterated most of the friendship we had left.

I agree with Pete's comment regarding writing letters but keeping them to yourself; every time I felt bothered or sad about the situation, I wrote a letter to my ex in my phone notes, and left them all in a file. After being burnt the first time, I decided that I would only contact her if absolutely necessary. I created a note that listed all the bad things she ever did to me and added to it every time a new memory surfaced. I wrote unsent letters every time I got frustrated about why I felt like I couldn't move on. The list became so long I couldn't look in the file anymore because I had to face how awful the situation had become, until a couple weeks ago, some 9 months after we split up, I was finally able to accept it all and get rid of them because the desire of writing to her in that nature is gone.

Thank you for your advice. I know I didnt follow through on everything. The real reason I contacted her was closure for me. If she had asked if I wanted to rekindle our love, I would have been tempted very much. But she didnt, and it doesnt show in her behaviour either. I also think more time in between might have been best- then again, we have been going on-and-off with little contact in between since November. Last month, no contact at all. And by not sending the letter but calling to her first, knowing I was blocked anyway, I left the option to her. And she took it.

Anyway, I do not intend to pressure her further. When she blocked me I sent her a final SMS (yes really), reflecting on when she explained why she would block me at instances. 'Im not mad, I know you dont block out of spite but hope when you feel overwhelmed. I hope youll be okay, I'll leave the ball for any contact with you'.

@Rev: could you give an example of what kind of physical/emotional barriers youve set in cases like this?

@Meridius: How did your partner react afterwards? Was it constructive for your relationship, could she see the wisdom in it and not take it personally?

[Rev]

@Rev: could you give an example of what kind of physical/emotional barriers youve set in cases like this?

So … sure...   First of all, you need to know that I chose in the middle of my initial separation to keep moving. I chose not break either the emotional barriers and physical ones I set in place. AND I say that because you are trying to reverse a break-up. In the middle of all the turmoil, I decided to NOT try to reverse it. It took me two days, after a few weeks of contemplation, reading and lots of emotional support from friends and my mentor to go there. For me, it has proven to be the right decision.  You'll have to decide what is right for you.  My ex has lots of stuff to deal with - NPD traits, physically and emotionally abusive, and not just to me. She is, by last counts in the network of the public I serve, sinking fast. I needed, for my mental health, to leave.

So, a physical boundary is pretty simple. I reduced all my communication to bare necessity while we were negotiating a settlement. This I did step by step. And after week two of the separation, stopped talking to her on the phone and communicated only by text. I answered in short sentences - six words or less and only when absolutely necessary. I broke this only three times - where I spoke to her and the three times were a mistake. Because my emotional boundaries also became broken. And I did myself emotional damage. She only bullied me more. Thank God the last time it happened I had a witness. I put her on speaker phone and she was too enraged to realize what I had done and she just kept coming at me.

Essentially an internal emotional boundary is an attempt to shut down your emotional responses and stick to a game plan. I relied on my mentor to coach me. I remained cold and matter of fact in my discussions, even in text. That was the wall.  On one side of the wall were her emotional needs - and on my side were my own. I never let myself even dream that she could help me there. I was so, so, so hard. I made lists of things to remember not to think and to change my thoughts about. I had three friends who would help me do this. I was hurting inside, but I would go to fill those needs through my friends. I would take long drives - and I stayed any alcohol or junk food.  I walked a lot. Anything to keep those emotional boundaries up.

What I found was that eventually I was able to see her through clearer eyes. When that happened, I began to seriously consider what I wanted - what I felt I needed in a couples counselling process - I never once at this point asked myself if she could or could not meet my needs. I just stated them on their own - free now from any emotional ties to the outcome of staying or going. At this point, I know that I still love her, but I have a good sense of my own emotional self.

And then I reach out to her. I simply ask her what she felt the next steps should be. She wants to meet - in person or the house - but I see that she is not answering my question. So I agree to meet with her for coffee - oops - emotional boundary broken. I catch myself and speak to my mentor, who sets me straight.

I write my ex back - asking her what she thinks she would like to talk about in person. She writes back - "you said you wanted to talk about next steps..."  Knowing my ex the way I do, this was a total RED FLAG - and this time I saw it.

I answered back that by "next steps" I meant finding a mediator to negotiate the separation she had asked for. She went ballistic!  And in a few more days, she's charming again.  Not this time.

Today, I have a cease and desist written by my lawyer. She came to my place of work unannounced with personal effects that she had hidden from me.  

I never would have seen this part of her if I had not had the physical boundaries in place which gave me the room to put emotional boundaries in place.

Does this make sense?

Good luck with your situation. If you need to run something by me, just reach out.

Bottom line, with good boundaries, you'll be able to accept the real her. Up to you after that to decide what it is that you want. Every story is different.

Rev

PS - It feels almost surreal to write this now - about 9 months after these events went down. I still remember the picnic bench I was sitting at after I finished three books on the advice of my T and made the list of what I wanted to work on. It was long, but I thought it was doable.  Until she didn't follow through. I was crestfallen. But it was a sobering moment. And then I became a vault.

[Adrian26]

Hi Rev and other readers,

First of all thank you Rev for your advice. I recognize a lot in the struggle for boundaries and the importance of having a good support system. You must be grateful for them.

I have an update on the case with my ex, and I thought you might want to shed your light on both her actions and mine. Though her new actions were unnecessarily damaging and provocative, I found myself more at ease than I thought. I think its because at this point I've become so familiar with her actions and motivations that theyre plain to see. I think she wanted to test me, or spite me, or wanted me to fly into a rage or extreme sadness as a sign of how much i still cared, and yes, she has succeeded in that before. Mostly because at previous points I didnt know the extent of her issues, so I took some events as absolute betrayal or I blamed myself. At this point, the grinding mechanisms are so obvious that I don't take it personal anymore. If anything, every new event just completes the conclusion thats been subtly growing for months. She is super high functional, but more and more cracks surface. In fact, I interpreted her provocations as a sign of her still wrestling with feelings towards our relationship rather than indifference. And if there is truly another dude/girl in her life, I just know most of the pattern will continue regardless of who she's with.

Small summary: I reached out to my ex this week by phone. We broke up in august, and our breakups were very rocky and vague, with lots of silent treatments, reconciliation, lies, passionate love, abuse and unclarity in between. I had a lot of trouble processing what was happening because back then she still seemed succesful in life and in control. She only admitted her deepest traumas last January. Because of her toxic behaviour afterwards I went no contact for a month. When I did not congratulate her on her birthday (or sent her anything on Valentinesday a few days later) she reached out to me again, stating how thankful she was for our time together since it had helped her grow as a person. Regardless of how it ended, she loved me and hoped I was doing okay. This was followed by a thirsty b00bpic and a frantic videocall late at night where she almost seemed delusional- claiming I was the one who called her and expressing worries that I was in some sort of trouble and needed her help. I deflected both attempts at contact with politeness but also distance. I had no use for her sudden gratitude or love after she had shown so much abuse and after she had been clear she wanted nothing more to do with me- it was maddening.
However, a month later, my anger subsided and I remembered her confessions of trauma. She was a patient first and foremost, suffering from trauma and huge self-loathing, which motivated her seemingly selfish actions and her automutilation. The naieve sensitive fool that I am (or maybe also the caregiver codependent medicine student that I am),  found it hard to find closure with the thought that she might actually be in real pain, especially since she had been so open about that recently. I feared that our breakups damaged her healing process even further.

So I reached out and told her I was also thankful for our time, that I recognized I had made some mistakes and lacked insight or empathy at certain points, and that some of her behaviour for which I had criticized her had been very understandable indeed. I did not completely mean these words, not all of them, but what I really wanted was to take away any incentive for further self-loathing and give us both a loving end to our narrative. That in the end, things didnt work out but that didn't mean either of us was a bad person. I preferred an ending where we did aid each others process so it had not all been for nothing.

She typed for about 10 minutes on whatsapp, then blocked me out of nothing. Two days later, today, she suddenly unblocked me and sent a message. I'll just translate the texts we sent from Dutch, so you have an objective view.

Ex out of the blue: 'All these thankful words- nothing I haven't heard before Adrian. Its okay. I am very happy at this moment. I do not want any further contact with you. Good luck with everything.'

Me: 'I am quite surprised by these spiteful words, especially in the light of the things you told me a month ago. And I don't see why they are necessary after all the things weve shared. You said so yourself last time, despite our breakup, you were grateful for our time and loved me much. Nevertheless, glad to hear youre in a happy place. Take care.'

Ex: Its not hate or spite Adrian. It's really not. It's acceptance. It has been a rollercoaster and right now I finally feel at peace. I am happy in my relationship and I wish you all the best in the future'.

Me: 'Haha. Yeah sure youre happy in youre relationship if you so strongly feel the need to share that with me. Anyway, I won't be provoked again. I stand behind my positive words and feelings regarding us, and I that grateful view does not require both of us to see things the same way.'

Ex: 'I also stand behind my words. Ive got to know myself better because of you. And now its time to let go and take the space to just be.'


I have to clarify this. My choice of words also seems sarcastic. However, this is not out of smallmindedness or spite. Its just that at this point her intentions are so incredibly obvious. Her act, her play, her provocations. Neither of us would benefit from not pointing that out. As part of me learning to recognize when she's playing/sabotaging/provoking, I had to address her inconsistencies. It felt like the only way to not succumb to this new narrative she had spun- seemingly completely forgetting her earlier actions, like the fact that she had shared the exact sentiment of gratitude a month ago and I merely returned the favor. For so long during rocky parts of our relationship she always managed to twist a story into her being completely blameless, and me gullibly accepting that.
More importantly, I've also read Walking on Eggshells and other books and articles. When she is obviously pushing you away, its often not because thats in their best rational interest, its just a trigger, a defense mechanism, or so I read. For whatever reason, she seemed to feel compelled to ignite another fight between us or push me away by hurting my feelings. I tried to remain calm and, while I pointed out the clear weirdness in some of her words, I did not become emotional or angry and held on to my positive view of our bond. I did not enforce that view on her, I just wanted to show that even despite her words, my feelings and memories didnt change.

Underlying intentions?
We have been going on/off since august. Earlier on, the very mention of her being with another dude or girl would have sent me into a mad rage. But back then she would do that for herself- as distraction, validation through sex or affection, whatever. Sometimes, she would flirt with a dude if I had made her feel insecure about our future. She even admitted that in therapy- its easier for her to sabotage our relationship than to admit vulnerability and feelings. I think she is very aware of the effect it could have had on me, had I not experienced the same push pull for months now.
She has blocked me on all social media/communication/phone etc for almost two months. We do have the same group of friends and share whatsappgroups, in which she sometimes replied in a vague way to one of my messages to others. I did not even expect that she could see my phonecall, yet she unblocked me afterwards and waited for me to text her. When I told her I too was grateful, just like she had stated earlier, she blocked me. She could have left it there, as she often does for longer periods when she feels triggered or emotionally challenged. Yet she puts in the effort to unblock me again, to state she does not want anymore contact despite the fact we already had no contact. Then she unnecessarily states she is happy in 'her relationship'- which is completely new information. I cannot stress enough how she casually tried to drop this info, despite the fact that it was unnecessary information at that point in our convo and that it is also out of character for her: she hasn't been monogamous for years and in fact during our relationship I accepted her polyamory- but only with other women. It is a huge part of her issues that she is afraid of committing. In fact, our relationship, when we finally did become monogamous, has been a huge anomaly in her life. To top off, she had frantically reached out to me 4 weeks ago, and now shes 'just so happy in her relationship'.

I know I sound sour and bitter. But my ex is very high functioning, and has managed to not only fool me for a long time but also many intelligent friends, lecturers and strangers consistently. But the last months she's been sliding so much, and with everything I know about her these words were just to provoke me.
I thought about a final reply for hours. I did not know what to say. Thought about just a 'thumbsup', since that pretty much reflected my sense of hopelessness to all this unnecessary toxicity. Or maybe something like 'Ok, so let me go then'. Anyhow, she stayed online for hours afterwards and didnt block me, also out of character for her. Normally after an intense discussion or expressing a desire for no contact, I would be blocked in a heartbeat. It seemed like she was very eager for a reply. She stayed up late and blocked me somewhere late last night.

Its just so... childish in a way. I know BPD's are known to have trouble communicating their feelings and often resort to primal/childish mechanisms which are often destructive, but I had never seen such an apparent attempt before by my ex. Never ever did I experience such a clear no win / no win situation. Maybe I see things that arent there but it seems like she hasnt let go of us, but can only deal with our encounters in a negative way. No one gains from this new animosity, when she had just found gratitude as a way of closure and I returned the favor, hoping to close things off finally.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just utterly bamboozled. I was aware by now of her more damaging mechanisms but she has some insight in those, and they have always been subtle. This was just completely unnecessary and I feel like she is not even remotely the person I knew, even though i have experienced her manipulations and fights before.

[once removed]

Her act, her play, her provocations. Neither of us would benefit from not pointing that out. As part of me learning to recognize when she's playing/sabotaging/provoking, I had to address her inconsistencies.

i think that when a lot of us learn about BPD, there is a tendency to read every action from our loved ones through that prism. i know i did; i dissected everything that occurred over our three years together through that prism. why do we do this? probably because it has a soothing effect...it provides explanations for things too hurtful to get our minds around, gives some sense of control.

theres a risk when we do that though, of losing sight of a great deal of what is actually at play: basic human nature.

you are trying to win a battle of the wits here, and trying to have the upper hand when it comes to writing the relationship narrative.

im afraid though, that its going to compound the hurt you feel now, because its not a realistic means of closure or soothing your wounds. its also not an ideal strategy for reconciling a relationship, if that is still what you want to do.

[Rev]

i think that when a lot of us learn about BPD, there is a tendency to read every action from our loved ones through that prism. i know i did; i dissected everything that occurred over our three years together through that prism. why do we do this? probably because it has a soothing effect...it provides explanations for things too hurtful to get our minds around, gives some sense of control.

theres a risk when we do that though, of losing sight of a great deal of what is actually at play: basic human nature.

you are trying to win a battle of the wits here, and trying to have the upper hand when it comes to writing the relationship narrative.

im afraid though, that its going to compound the hurt you feel now, because its not a realistic means of closure or soothing your wounds. its also not an ideal strategy for reconciling a relationship, if that is still what you want to do.

Right!  I would like to echo this - boundaries are not about winners and losers - they are about respectful space to see things just as they are - and then to move in a directions that honours the truth. There's what we do and then there is how we do it.  I'm not suggesting that anyone here has malicious intent or anything. Just wanting to tweak things to make them clearer.

In the end, the truth will speak on its own - the gaps will appear - the path forward will present itself - and then comes the toughest part - people concerned will either accept the responsibility to put fair effort into picking things up to make it work ….. or not.  In my case it was not - and then the grieving started. I truly wished it would have been different. But if I had insisted on my own way - I'd have ended up very sick.

Peace and light and clarity conscience be yours and all of ours.

Rev

[Adrian26]

Dear onceremoved, dear Rev,

I appreciate the things you point out. However, me addressing a few inconsistencies were only a small part of our interaction. In the end, I hadnt been in contact for a month, and even while she was abusive I stayed polite and fair. The only reason I sought out contact was because she  did the same and expressed gratitude. I returned her words, only to be suddenly shut down. I did not attempt to reconcile to a full relationship. I was however baffled by her reaction: first she told me she loved me and was thankful, and when I returned those words and wished her well she shot me down by saying she had heard this all before and desired no contact whatsoever and was happy without me. Hardly a response that was in line with her own words previously.
So hence my confusion, and thats the part I pointed out to her. No defense here, but an honest question: what would have been the best reaction? I actually thought I did her a favour by expressing gratitude as well. I read a lot also on this site, and tried to actually see past the abuse and recognize the hurting person underneath.

I actually dont wanna fight a battle like this, I was just dumbstruck and while I was not willing to argue any further (she waited for another response for hours and I simply didnt know what to say), I also thought it unwise to not express my genuine surprise at what was happening.

Just wanted to emphasize that I did not want to force my own narrative on her- I actually wanted to reinforce the narrative she had started a few weeks earlier. One of gratitude and happy closure. I was not ready for such a closure back then because I was still angry. Now I thought to reach out and return the olive branch like she had done before, even though I had so many more questions to ask, so much anger over decisions and behaviours, but I let them all go. Was just surprised that she had spun a 180 degrees since then.

[Adrian26]

Right!  I would like to echo this - boundaries are not about winners and losers - they are about respectful space to see things just as they are - and then to move in a directions that honours the truth. There's what we do and then there is how we do it.  I'm not suggesting that anyone here has malicious intent or anything. Just wanting to tweak things to make them clearer.

In the end, the truth will speak on its own - the gaps will appear - the path forward will present itself - and then comes the toughest part - people concerned will either accept the responsibility to put fair effort into picking things up to make it work ….. or not.  In my case it was not - and then the grieving started. I truly wished it would have been different. But if I had insisted on my own way - I'd have ended up very sick.

Peace and light and clarity conscience be yours and all of ours.

Rev

I fear you're right. She spoke before of how our interaction had laid bare her trauma's again- of not feeling good enough, of feeling unworthy of love. It reminded her of being bullied as a child. She needed someone to make her feel good about herself, she said.
At that point so many things made sense to me, and I tried my hardest to finally offer what she needed without losing myself.
Its just a shame that apparently, too much stuff had happened between us. Despite lingering feelings and her reaching out, she has very quickly moved onto a relationship with someone new, probably expedited to soothe the wounds of our interaction. Its a shame that, when she finally showed her vulnerabilities, any effort of mine to fix what has happened falls on deaf ears. She said she could not easily forget the things that happened, and I guess she found her way out with somone new. She does not seem to be willing to pick up the pieces together and face the ugliness, where I had hoped we finally had a shot.

[once removed]

an honest question: what would have been the best reaction?

breakups are frequently messy things. and frankly, whats done is done.

it sounds like she didnt like your last message. we dont know what you said, so its hard to know why, exactly, other than it struck a nerve (you may have come off as being analytical of her, or you may have expressed a view about the relationship, or the arguments, that pissed her off). its really easy for that to happen in a breakup, despite our best intentions.

Ex out of the blue: 'All these thankful words- nothing I haven't heard before Adrian. Its okay. I am very happy at this moment. I do not want any further contact with you. Good luck with everything.'

Me: 'I am quite surprised by these spiteful words, especially in the light of the things you told me a month ago. And I don't see why they are necessary after all the things weve shared. You said so yourself last time, despite our breakup, you were grateful for our time and loved me much. Nevertheless, glad to hear youre in a happy place. Take care.'

Ex: Its not hate or spite Adrian. It's really not. It's acceptance. It has been a rollercoaster and right now I finally feel at peace. I am happy in my relationship and I wish you all the best in the future'.

Me: 'Haha. Yeah sure youre happy in youre relationship if you so strongly feel the need to share that with me. Anyway, I won't be provoked again. I stand behind my positive words and feelings regarding us, and I that grateful view does not require both of us to see things the same way.'

Ex: 'I also stand behind my words. Ive got to know myself better because of you. And now its time to let go and take the space to just be.'

life is too short to argue with an ex about why they broke up with you or why they treat you the way they do after a breakup. thats my attitude, after having done so, so many times. if someone said "i dont want further contact from you", theyd have no further contact from me.

those things are all worth thinking about, but they are small potatuz compared to the big picture.

this is going to be a time of pain, introspection, and enormous consequence for you, that we will be here to help you walk through. there were things about the breakdown of your relationship that will challenge your thinking, and may hurt to probe, on some level, and for the most part, they dont have a lot to do with BPD.

[Adrian26]

breakups are frequently messy things. and frankly, whats done is done.

it sounds like she didnt like your last message. we dont know what you said, so its hard to know why, exactly, other than it struck a nerve (you may have come off as being analytical of her, or you may have expressed a view about the relationship, or the arguments, that pissed her off). its really easy for that to happen in a breakup, despite our best intentions.
this is going to be a time of pain, introspection, and enormous consequence for you, that we will be here to help you walk through. there were things about the breakdown of your relationship that will challenge your thinking, and may hurt to probe, on some level, and for the most part, they dont have a lot to do with BPD.

My last words to her, before this argument started, were that I too felt grateful for our time together and that she had enriched my life. I literally returned the words she had sent me a month before.

What do you mean with for the most part things  won't have to do a lot with BPD? The introspection time has started many months before. The therapy I've engaged in, the selfreflection. The regret I've felt over decisions made during our relationship. However, the pushpull back and forth we've had over all these months and even recently seems a clear aspect of BPD. As has been my ex's unfaithfulness, lies, manipulations, running away, unwillingness to talk about past events- since those events hurt her right in her core trauma, so she said herself. It's easier for her to start over with someone new rather than talk about stuff with an ex.

I've lost another relationship a little over a year ago. It was clean. It hurt, but it was clear and obvious why. In my mind it's not just the BPD that caused the current breakup, but it's played a massive role in both why it ended and why it became so stretched out and painful to process.

[once removed]

What do you mean with for the most part things  won't have to do a lot with BPD?

BPD traits no doubt played a role. they make for an inherently difficult person.

what i mean is two fold:

1. it probably has a lot more to do with human nature than BPD. this is hard to see. but conflict mostly looks the same in all relationships. for example, fights over money, fights over jealousy, fights over one partner giving more than another, fights over fundamental incompatibility, fights over values differences, etc. people with BPD traits just react in a more extreme way to the same stuff.

2. it probably has more to do with the unique dynamics between the two of you, whats fundamentally broken or not working, and if you want to reconcile the relationship, how those things, specifically, are going to be reconciled. 

[I Am Redeemed]

This thread has reached the posting limit and has been locked. Part 3 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344065.0