communication tips needed with non diagnosed BPD wife

[stuffstuff]

Hi There,

I'm new here and I'm honestly struggling communicating with my wife.
I had typed up/ prepared a long first post yesterday but decided not to post it because it was too much information and way too long. After thinking about it I didn't feel like it was the correct way to go about it. Mainly because I was struggling organizing my thoughts in a way that was clear.
I think this post will most likely end up being LONG aswell.     

So to put it plainly,  My wife is undiagnosed but I strongly believe she's suffering with some form of BPD ( maybe some NPD traits) as well as Depression and suicidal thoughts.  After reading about BPD the last few months,  Alot of the stories feel familiar And well  I need HELP or at the very least some ears / eyes to listen / read what i have to get off my chest.

I haven't personally gone through any in person therapy for myself But I did join the online counselling platform "talkspace" for a month.  It was good but i don't think it was what I really needed.  The one good thing was to finally be able to get everything off my chest but beyond that I felt the expense wasn't worth it.   I really just needed to express myself and get things off my chest and I feel like writing a journal or using a forum like this is more than enough in my case. 

Some info:

-Together for 18 years , Married for 12 , we have 3 year old toddler.

-The progression to how things are today has been soo very gradual / slow over the last 18 years that It would have been impossible for me to spot. But I'm at a point where I am Feeling mentally abused and I need some help before it gets worst.

-she was diagnosed with postpartum depression last year and she did take several different medications for it but no proper therapy / counselling was given ( not sure why but the country i live in Mental illness is very much taboo... )  The pills did alter her mood ( for the better and it actually did improve our communication ALOT  because she was less irritated / tired in general ) however it did make her feel not like herself and so she decided to stop the medication ( without telling anyone ).   She's not "happy" at the moment however her depression is "controlled" in the sense that she's high functioning and no longer rock bottom like the was before taking the pills.   She's always been a slightly depressed person But after the birth of our child it was the first time I've seen her display actual physical symptoms  of depression ie: not being able to get out of bed, anything / everything is hard to do / strong strong irritability etc...    She's not fully recovered but its definitely a big improvement compared to last year.

-she did have suicidal thoughts last year which was the major reason for her to visit a clinic.   I don't think she would ever go through with it.  but last year was the first time i heard her talk about "disappearing"  or "wanting to die" or "my life is over"  etc..   She no longer talks about it but she still thinks that her life is over because of the baby and that she's no goals and nothing to live for.   Basically just shes just going through the motions and waiting to die whenever that is.  horrible way to see life and It hurts me so much she feels that way. 

-She did talk to the psychiatrist about BPD because at one point my wife actually thought something was wrong with her ( when she hit rock bottom).  Which was a HUGE step in my eyes.  Unfortunately the clinic she went to mostly only deals with depression, eating disorders , sleep disorders etc so the DR recommended her to visit a bigger hospital for proper diagnosis...  And so because of this my wife felt completely abandoned by the psychiatrist  ( this was actually the first time I've ever heard her  express her feelings of being abandoned by someone. Which I understand is a trait of BPD.   I've never seen or heard or her express like that with me.  Maybe deep down shes afraid ill leave her but She's never made that visible...As far as I know She's Happy to be alone and prefers it but maybe that's part of her push and pull game..)  I believe the new referral to a new clinic made her quit her depression treatment.   Now she believes Nothing was ever wrong with her and that I forced her to get treatment and she only did it for me and that nothing is wrong with her and I'm the one needing treatment.

-I do think my wife isnt as bad as most of the cases I read about.  For the most part i think my wife has self identity issues , doesn't know how to deal with stress, doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer/ needs things to be her way ,  issues with boundaries,  she has anger issues , mood swings , OCD/Impulsive issues, control issues which results in me walking on eggshells / being the punching bag.   For the most part I'm the focus of her issues and our child has been shielded from her mental abuse.  She's a GREAT mother but I do worry ALOT ALOT ALOT about the interactions/communication my child witnesses between my Wife and I.   It's not "right" and I'm worried my child will be affected by it. It absolutely NEEDS to change before its too late.

Luckily my wife does NOT self harm, she doesn't abuse drugs / alcohol.  Her angry spells and or silent treatment doesn't last very long anywhere from a couple of minutes to max a few hours.  But maybe that has to do with how I deal with her. 

-Her Friends or people who know her DONT know about the "real" her.  They dont know about the control issues , the manipulations, the way she Treats me etc.. 
She Actually doesn't have many friends.   Not because of her traits but because she actually very picky with who she's friends with.   She prefers to be alone.   The Friends she does have she's very good to.  All the friends she has now she met in the last few years.  She gets along with them really well and she's really nice to them. They would never suspect she's suffering.   

-Her family is great.  Parents are supportive ( maybe too supportive).     She doesn't treat her mom very well But her mom's unconditional love is strong.   and Next to me Her mom is probably the one that takes the most "abuse". I dont think they would ever suspect mental illness.  I think everyone including her friends would be pretty shock if it was ever to be public knowledge. Its not something i can talk to them about because it's taboo here and There's also a language barrier.

I've read several books and alot of the info in the tools section of this website over the last year.  Most recently listened to the audio book "stop walking on Eggshells".   All helpful books/ information.   I've tried to applied alot of what I learnt but It's a struggle. So I'm mostly looking for maybe first hand tips that might not be covered in books.

No Win situations: These drive me insane and I need tips on how to avoid / get through these in a consists constructive way.   I can give thousand of examples but I'll restrain from examples for now.   I just don't know how to deal with no win situations.   I make a Huge effort not to trigger her however almost any/every situation is a potential no win situation.

Validation:  Validation doesn't work with my wife or maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Validation only backfires on me.  It's to the point where she calls me out on it or she's using it against me.   She's VERY VERY VERY good at manipulating / controlling conversations.  She makes it a point to uses my validation to Always check that she was right and that i am wrong.   The only right answer is admitting I'm wrong.      I shouldnt have to validate every single statement that she said but almost everythign she says is in need of someform of validation.

Blaming / accusations : Any tips on how to deal with the blame / accusation game other than validation or walking out on the conversation?  I'm blamed / accused daily on a number of things.   I really think she has no control over how and what she says and she doesn't know or care to know how I feel.   I'm trying hard not to trigger her but it's literally unavoidable.   I'm very good at taking the blame and i try to validate it and or let it slip but I'm mostly worried about what my toddler is learning from this.  It's not a healthy dynamic.

insulting/name calling/ belittling/ snark remarks :  [/b]I've tried boundaries But they DON'T work (at least I can't get them to work ) .  setting up boundries just escalates / makes things worst.   expressing sincerely and as nice as possible that these make conversations difficult and they hurt me has no impact whatsoever.   It makes me look selfish in her eyes , or her reply is to " just take it ". 


boundaries: any tips on setting up boundaries and reinforcing them?  My main issues are with communication based boundaries.   For example , I personally think interrupting , name calling , swearing ,  belittling , insulting for the sake of hurting some one etc.. are all unacceptable.   I don't do it to my wife , never have , never will.   I've no clue where she picked up this habit. Her parents definitely don't treat each other like that.     HOWEVER those are the go to for my wife and it makes any and every conversation near impossible. 

black and white:   How to deal with the black and White thinking?   the use of the words" NEVER" and "ALWAYS" are driving me nuts.

Never apologizing:  My wife literally thinks she NEVER does anything wrong. Like EVER.   I've actually never heard her apologize to me about anything in 18 years and I'm not exaggerating. She's literally NEVER apologized for anything to me. Everything she does is justifiable in some way.   She has no sense that she's done anything wrong. No empathy..       Now,  Honestly , this doesn't bother me much.   It would be nice to hear " sorry " if she clearly did something wrong but this is the least of my problems.  but it's totally not "normal", I think.   There are some wires crossed somewhere for sure.

Control Issues:  tips on dealing with Wife's control issues.   How to diffuse the situation.  My wife thinks her way is always the best way.   Theres WAY too much i can write about this but I'll leave it at that.   She really can't wrap her mind around different ways of doing things.  people doing things differently.   They need to be her way.  She does have some form of OCD when it comes to cleanliness, organization , washing hands / germs.    I do the best i can to adapt to her anxieties/ petpeeves etc.. But conflicts are unavoidable.  I only know how to be myself and how to do things my way.  If her way really is the best Way I'll adapt and do it her way but sometimes/ many times her demands are irrational / illogical.

isolation :   I'm probably a pwBDP's dream partner. In the sense that I don't really keep many friends.   But that's just my personality type.  I'm not antisocial.   I love interacting with people however I much prefer focusing on my work and passions and learning new things.  I live abroad in my wife's country so I dont have many connections either.  HOWEVER.   I call my parents maybe every 3 weeks and we talk for an hour or so.  SHe's nice to my parents in person But she refuses to talk to them on the phone.  My parents think its odd but I always just tell them she's busy or not there.   Which is Fine. But My wife is always trying to (non successfully) isolate me from my family by giving me a hard time about me just having a phone call with them.   She has a way to try to make me feel bad for talking to my parents. After years of this. Everytime i talk to my parents I always feel bad.  I always know there's going to be some "fight" right after.    I'd understand / validate her complaints if i was talking to my parents daily or Even maybe a few times a week BUT We're talking about once a month here...    My wife on the other hand talks to her mom Daily and honestly i could care less.     before The Baby I did have friends where I would go out with every weekend for a few hours.   I think it was a Major issue for her.  when i started going out with friends I could tell she would discourage it and say anything that would make me feel guilty about it or even worry that somethign bad would happen. She even cried about it.   BUt After a while she got used to it and it wasn't so much a problem but it was still a guilt issue.    Since the baby was born over 2 years ago.  I've honestly havent seen ANY FRIENDS.  I've yet to take the steps with her to setup that boundary.    I know from Experience she's going to say  " Family is number 1".    Which I can't disagree with and i validate that but with The Black and white thinking it's impossible to set personal time boundaries.


Rules don't apply to her: It's very hard to keep track of all her rules / things i can / cant do / how to do them etc..  THe rules keep changing and There are soo many different exceptions that Honestly I dont know anymore.   Any tips on This kind of issues?


As for Me: 

I'm dealing with her suffering As best as I can But since 99% of it is being directed at me It's wearing me down very thin.
For the most part I can cope and deal with it But It's been weighing heavy on me these days. Especially the worry about the impact it will have on my daughter.
As mentioned , I don't think my wife has it nearly as bad as others.  She's high functioning and all.

What's Wearing me down the most is actually not being able to lower my guard and Be myself.   Forcing myself to limit my conversations with my wife because i dont know what her mood is and how she will react to Whatever it is I want to talk about.   (anything from simple talking like asking how she slept , to talking about the weather  , to talking about more serious things can potentially be a problem. There's too many factors to consider... )   

I've given up on Hobbies and career goals ( for now ).  The way I'm being manipulated, controlled and treated has made it near impossible to focus on anything other than figuring out how to deal with my wife's diagnosed mental illness.   

I guess the above it ALOT of info.   It's probably not nearly as bad as I typed it out.  We're not at the point of divorce. Or anywhere near there.   There are some GOOD times with my wife But the daily communication is just VERY VERY hard.   I really wish i could just be myself and not worry about how my wife will react to everything all the time.   She's a good person But I think she's got some wires crossed and needs help and i dont think she understands what im going through and probably never will.

It wasn't like this always.  It slowly gradually became this way.

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[once removed]

hi stuffstuff, and

youve come to the right place. things can absolutely get better.

theres a lot at play here, to say the least. it will behoove you to really dig into the lessons and tools here. my advice is to practice them with anyone and everyone in your life. the "trick" in applying things like communication techniques, for example, is really about sincerity and authenticity. when youre learning a new way of communicating, its going to feel, and to be, unnatural.

What's Wearing me down the most is actually not being able to lower my guard and Be myself.

practice is how you achieve these things. personally, i found it easier to start from a place of "dont be invalidating", rather than learning how to validate. because if i was doing the former, it was much easier to do the latter...it came more naturally.

think globally about these things. the tools are less about a quick fix to stop a fight, and more about a big picture approach to rehabilitating the relationship. think more in terms of "fire prevention" than putting out each and every fire.

why dont we start with the last thing that went wrong between you and your wife?

[stuffstuff]

hi stuffstuff, and
why dont we start with the last thing that went wrong between you and your wife?

Thanks for the Reply.
The last few days have been crazy.

I have to preface that her fits  are over the stupidest little things ( most of the times).  It's just ALOT ALOT of little things and its impossible to sincerely validate every single one.

It's been a difficult last few days. Our latest problem(s):

A few days ago, after basically a whole day of me taking her negativity and blame and me trying to sincerely validate everything and care and be as positive as possible.  After 10 hours of being treated like crap and blamed for everything I couldn't take it anymore.
It was supper time.  Wife was eating a bowl of noodles ( appetizer because she couldnt wait for the main dish ) and she was also feeding the baby. I was finishing up cooking dinner.   Wife started having a fit because baby was being picky and didnt want to eat dinner.   Obviously my wife was taking it personal.  I went into problem solving mode.   First i validate how hard it is to feed baby and that sometimes they can be picky etc..   She freaks out that baby needs to get all her nutrition... All the while she's still eating her noodles and the baby just wants to eat noodles too.    Im trying hard to not burn dinner and start plating it for later but wife has a fit and Thinks I'm plating it for the baby to eat( the baby cant even eat what we eat) and goes on an angry rage about how the baby wont ever eat dinner anymore ( like FOREVER everyday from now on because the baby saw i was plating food ( shes saying this as if the rules done apply to her. like her eating the noodles in front of baby was ok and me cooking dinner was the problem.)..  At this point its the end of the world for her  and gets in my face about what i supposedly did wrong.   I just broke down , calmy tried to take the food out of baby's eye sight  and she tried stopping me.. and I just started repeating "I didn't do anything wrong" "I Didn't do anything wrong"   like 10 times like a robot in a monotone even voice.    I had enough blame for one day.    This made her completely mad and she stormed out and went into the room slamming the door and ignored me the rest of the night.    I was left with the baby to finish the remaining evening , clean up , play etc...   

The next morning she wakes up upbeat. Doesnt mention anythign from the night before and proceeds to have a normal day like nothing happened at all.    Unfortunately , my wife HATES talking about her emotions or about things that went wrong, doesn't apologize ( never has in 18 years). She rather just act like nothing happened.     The rest of the day goes actually OK.  I can see she feels bad for the day before so she's trying not provoke anything BUT something triggered her.  It's Stupidest of things but basically she wanted to order take out ( I agreed).  Normally she does all the ordering because the app is on her phone and she has everything setup with credit card info.  What should have been a peaceful evening ended in disaster.  This time , she told me to ORDER the food because she had a coupon for a new user ( we're talking about a few $$ here.. and let me tell you, We DONT have any money issues. We never fight over money...  She just likes "deals" ).   I was taking care of the baby , she was vacuuming ( she didnt need to vacuum but she's OCD with that stuff).  when she told me to order , I start looking at my phone trying to setup the APP , signup for a new account and  everything and then she proceeds to yell because I'm not focusing on the baby enough. then she has a fit that its taking me too long to setup and that it's too late etc..,   then the App kept crashing and started blaming me for those technical difficulties all the while blaming me for not focusing on the baby ...  IT's really hard to validate anything in no win situations when you're under constant pressure to do things  her way  / "right". I just ended up telling her nicely to stop vacuuming and to do it on her phone like she normally does.   She started name calling me.   I told her her behavior was unacceptable and that I was going to take the dog and baby  for a long walk to get fresh air.   She basically said  "you're giving me an excuse to kill myself if you leave"...  She then storms to her room lays down and sleeps for 2 hours and then takes a shower and comes out like nothing happened.

This morning she's just in a crabby mood. Baby's been crying alot around her and she's got no patience.   Even though i have work to do , chores and what not  I ended up taking the baby for an hour during my normal work time for her to cool down.   

Its honestly just a matter of time before She starts picking on the next thing I do "wrong".   Normally its just little stuff like me not having an app on my phone ,  the salt and pepper is an inch in the wrong spot ,   I forgot to turn off the light in the washroom 1 time..something I 99.9% do. But Ends with her using words like " you NEVER turn off the light ".   Or If I dont answer a TXT msg or pick up her calls Right away ( this same rule doesnt apply to her.  She ignores my txts and calls on purpose  While I actually dont ignore her at all.  ) If  finish work a few seconds late It's the end of the world.   It will add up to maybe 5-20 things I get blamed every day. It piles up...

[once removed]

i think you may be running the risk of "over validating" or "validating the invalid".

if i punched you in the face, you wouldnt respond by telling me you understand i must be going through a hard time, but that punching you in the face isnt cool, right?

im not suggesting your wife punched you in the face, im talking about appropriate times and places. validation is not about cowering. it isnt about a frantic search for coming up with words to try to soothe someone who is being a jerk to you.

dont look at validation as a way to soothe your wife or make your problems go away. thats not what its intended for. and id argue that when thats what we are doing, it isnt genuine validation anyway. there are other tools, dont think of validation as a panacea.

whats clear is that there is tremendous stress in your marriage over the baby, for both of you personally, and on your relationship. 100% typical for any couple, but ultra stressful for any couple, and people with bpd traits especially, do not deal well with stress.

Baby's been crying alot around her and she's got no patience.   Even though i have work to do , chores and what not  I ended up taking the baby for an hour during my normal work time for her to cool down.   

even the healthiest of relationships require some of this, some sacrifice, some give and take, when it comes to taking care of a new born. if it eases some stress on your wife, that can be a payoff for you.

are there any times of calm where the two of you might be able to discuss some of this, work some of it out, schedule a bit better and get on the same page?