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Author Topic: Break Up - Having trouble processing, did she have BPD?  (Read 609 times)
cmck1984

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« on: March 18, 2020, 11:14:34 AM »

Hi all,

First post so please bear with me.

I have just experienced a very difficult, and very unexpected break up and after lots of reading, self reflection, and (dare I use the word) obsessing, I am wondering if my ex girlfriend perhaps had BPD.

We met via work (she works in our head office, 3 and a half hours drive away), and some flirty conversations moved onto emails, swapping numbers, then meeting.

There were always hurdles, distance... age (she had just turned 23 when we met, lives with, and has always lived with her parents rent free and is very very close, I would still say dependent on her family) whereas I am 35, and have 2 children.

To add for context, although she is quite career minded and bright, she is a 'young' 23, in the sense that she is into disney, unicorns, and is absolutely her parents 'baby' still.

When we met for the first time, things instantly went at the speed of light, although I was fine with this, she was the one leading this in many ways, some examples...

1) The first time we met, she stayed the entire weekend with me in my home, intimate on the first night.

2) She told me she loved me after 2 weeks.

3) She was sending me care packages and letters when apart from the very start.

4) From the start she wanted to text, video call, email, phone calls all of the time, with 'rules' about things like kisses, emojis etc which at the time I thought was nice, she seemed insecure however and would get emotional if she thought I was ever 'off' or 'annoyed' at her, tears would usually flow and I would need to reassure her.

5) She wanted us to make plans far far in advance, from Christmas, to holidays the following year, wedding talk, baby talk... all huge things.

6) She bought my children things, and wanted to build a relationship with them via video chats etc on the weekends I had them and she was back at home.

7) After Christmas had passed, she suggested us getting a house together so that she could someday move over here with me (I was living with my father when we first met and had no plans to move until May this year originally).

8) She introduced me to all of her family, met my friends and family, she even took time off work to look after me when I underwent an operation following the festive season.

8) She put a lot of time and effort into the move... hugely impulsive with it, arranging viewings, then once we found a place, she maxed out her cards buying things for the house, borrowed money off her parents and sister, signed up to a tenancy agreement with me and signed her mum up as a guarantor, she was 'all in'.

So, as you can see, within the space of 4 months, we went from flirty work colleagues, to being incredibly serious and signing up to a house together.

Then, things took a massively unexpected 180 turn.

We picked up the keys to the house on the 30th January this year, and she was here until the 5th of February whilst we moved in to the new house, her family were over for a day and helped with flat pack furniture building etc, and it was a very busy few days.

During that visit, she was a little... off... she was not very affectionate at all (when previously she had been extremely affectionate), was a little short tempered, and just did not seem herself, I did ask if she was OK but she put it down to the move being tiring and nothing more.

From the day she returned home, she seemed a little distant and there was a noticeable shift in her communication patterns, less frequent, a little more blunt, just not how she had been for the rest of the relationship.

Then, the day before she was due to come over and spend her next weekend here, it ended.

She had spent a couple of days being even quieter than usual, and I could tell all was not right.

I mentioned this to her, and she got very defensive, and started an argument with me, now I will admit openly that her distant behavior had really got to me so I was defensive also and we did have a heated conversation... no swearing, no insults, but it was an argument and our first ever genuine one.

Her reaction to that was to say she was not coming over for the weekend anymore, and needed some time to think about things as she 'did not know where her head was at with things'.

She asked for space and said she'd be in touch to let me know her thoughts.

I then heard nothing from her for 2 days, until she called me and ended the relationship, very formally and bluntly put, she said she wanted it to be civil as we work together, that she would stick to her financial commitments towards the house, but that was her decision and final.

I tried to apologize for the argument, reconcile things, and fight for the relationship but she was not at all interested and said the argument 'changed her opinion on the relationship'.

Now, I am struggling to process this at all, 5 weeks has passed now since the break up.

My friends and family all think it is cold feet, following collection of the keys to the house, due to how close she is to her family, the fact she has never flown the family nest and the move was far away from them all, the fact she would need to find a new job in order to move here with me... and the fact she was due to meet my children imminently, I asked her if this was the case and she denied it.

Obviously the only reason she has actually given me is the argument, which seems an absolutely crazy reason for such an intense and fast moving relationship to end, especially given the commitments she had made.

I just wondered if BPD could be something she has, as she went from 1000mph, to closing the door on me in the blink of an eye.

It has been over 3 weeks now since we last spoke and I just feel so confused and hurt by it all, I just want to make sense of it, and if any of the above does pair up with BPD, perhaps it will stop me from blaming myself and feeling guilty about the argument, as I have been so low since the split and any input would be really helpful.

Thanks all

Chris
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2020, 11:44:23 AM »

Sounds like BPD to me, minus the raging.

You have to remember that their goal, even if subconscious, is to hook you in. Basically they are setting a trap. People on here will disagree and say it's subconscious, and it might be, but the goal is to have power and control over you. Love and a healthy relationship means nothing to a BPD as they have no frame of reference for what that's like.

So when you look at it from a power and control perspective, she has you right where she wants you. BPDs seem to collect men over time. It's like they want a stable of men they can go back to at some point in the future and use for supply.

Also, I've noticed that BPD women quite often go after men they work with. I thought the woman I dated at work actually liked me, and while I think she did to a certain extent, but after I dumped her the way she went after other guys at work, even though she was seeing men outside of work jarred me. I know you think you were special to her because you had this electric exchange of e-mails, texting, her coming to visit you,etc. But remember that BPDs do this all the time. Your goal was a potential loving relationship with a woman you caught feelings for, her objective, again if even only subconscious, was to add you to her male fan club.

Sorry man. I know it sucks, but it's important to face the reality of the situation for what it is. It'll help you detach sooner.

Just hope she doesn't go trying to screw things up for you at work. Be on guard for her trying to make you jealous w/ other men you work with soon. Just be prepared for that sh*t.
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cmck1984

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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2020, 12:10:16 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

I think the battle I've had is she seemed absolutely lovely the entire time we were together, a little snappy and blunt at times but overall she was thoughtful, kind and affectionate.

I think what made me drop my guard so much was how involved she allowed her family to get with things given her closeness to her, and also how much she physically contributed towards the house and it's belongings, we are talking a few thousand pounds.

So for her to do all that... Then less than two weeks after we pick up the keys to bail on the whole thing using an argument as her reasoning... I just wondered if perhaps BPD could be the reason for it without her actually knowing she has it herself... If that makes sense, as she's never been diagnosed but so many of the behaviours and symptoms seem present here it's just something I wanted to discuss with people who understand it.
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daze507
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2020, 12:31:43 PM »

I can see many similarities with my own experience:

-The impulsivity in her behaviour: She brought stuff from her place to mine (es. curtains, clothes), started to spend nights and weekends at my place very soon.
-We were intimate, not the first night but the second one and I noticed first unusual behaviours at this point (shame of own body despite the fact she'd always shown full self-confidence, fear of intimacy but that aspect dissipated very quickly).
-The plans in advance: Yes, for instance, she was already planning our holidays (to a city she's actually just moved to) and reacted very poorly when I did not agree about it on the spot.
-The need to be constantly reassured by text: I had no written rules here but she told me later that she took very badly the fact that I did not write to her for a few days (I was tired and wanted to leave her space).
-The gifts: I understood later I was supposed to always reciprocate to "prove" my love to her (on a side note every single gifts have been taken back when she broke up). BPDs never gift something or make a favour unconditionally, they want something, anything, in return and always.
-The split moment: Not yet the drama phase but you'd already noticed a clear and irreversible change in her behaviour (in my case a very smily person who became very moody and bad tempered for no specific reason).
-Being defensive: Yeah, every time I dared to talk about her behaviour, that almost always ended up to an argument and a slip of topic to my own behaviour.
-The use of a petty pretext to justify her decision: Yes, in your case the argument. In my case stuff that did not even make any sense at all. No matter what she says or does, it's 100% your fault. YOU have changed, not her.
-The end of the relationship: Basically, exactly the same, "In need my space" followed a day after by a phone call "I'm done with it, adios".

Were you idealized in the beginning, for instance an obsession about one or more feature of your body like eyes, height, hands? Or did she say that she felt totaly relaxed with you and that this thing never happened with none of her exes?
Did you notice her staring at you for a long time with eyes wide open sometimes, like she was scrutinising every single one of your movement?
Did you notice odd talks sometimes? Sentences that came out of nowhere and that had nothing to do with the context at that time.
Did you notice kind of a frightened facial expression after you said something, even something not really unusual?
Did she look distracted sometimes, like lost in her thoughts and not acknowledging your presence anymore?
Did she talk negatively about her ex or one of her family member (my mother is crazy etc.)?
When you were arguing with her, did you have the feeling she was not talking to you but to someone else? Were her eyes look crazy like those of a fanatic?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 12:42:43 PM by daze507 » Logged
jinglebells1989
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2020, 12:32:56 PM »

Thanks for the reply.

I think the battle I've had is she seemed absolutely lovely the entire time we were together, a little snappy and blunt at times but overall she was thoughtful, kind and affectionate.

I think what made me drop my guard so much was how involved she allowed her family to get with things given her closeness to her, and also how much she physically contributed towards the house and it's belongings, we are talking a few thousand pounds.

So for her to do all that... Then less than two weeks after we pick up the keys to bail on the whole thing using an argument as her reasoning... I just wondered if perhaps BPD could be the reason for it without her actually knowing she has it herself... If that makes sense, as she's never been diagnosed but so many of the behaviours and symptoms seem present here it's just something I wanted to discuss with people who understand it.

It's what they do. Their ability to detach very quickly is soul shattering. But it's part of the disorder. She's only 23, but I can guarantee you she's probably done stuff like this before.

That's the hardest part to accept, you were just another notch, figuratively speaking. But again, be very careful. Once she feels like you're detaching, she'll suck you back in. And when they suck you back in, from what I've read, it just keeps getting worse. Multiple your confusion about the house situation by 20 and that's what'll happen next time in whatever situation you find yourself in with her if you take her back. That's why I tell you to be careful though. The one I dated tried sucking me back in and I didn't budge. So what did she do? She stalked/harassed me close to a year finally causing me to lose my job. You can't crawl back nor can you ignore them, you'll get punished either way. That's BPD. There's no winning.
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2020, 12:35:35 PM »


When you were arguing with her, did you have the feeling she was not talking to you but to someone else? Were her eyes look crazy like those of a fanatic?

I saw this. During one of her worst episodes she shouted at me "You're so mean!" but it was like she was talking to a parent. I'm not even sure if she knew where she was.

But then the next day she fully acknowledge it over text. They know what they're doing. no doubt.
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cmck1984

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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2020, 12:39:44 PM »

When she ended it she was just extremely formal, insistent, and it wasn't open for discussion. She told me she wanted to be civil and that she'd stick to the financial commitments she'd made but since then I've heard nothing at all from her, she has lots of things here and keys to the house so at some point that has to happen but so far, five weeks later, nothing.

I never picked up on any physical signs like you've listed, more a strong feeling of emotional immaturity and a very strong dependancy on her mum, dad and nan which felt more like a teenagers relationship with family... Paid no rent... All her cooking and cleaning done for her... Yet she got them all heavily involved with the house move and borrowed money off them too in order to get the place furnished.

Then, as soon as we get the keys it's like something changed and less than two weeks later she abandoned ship. Absolutely out of the blue given all the commitments she'd made and promises.
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daze507
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2020, 12:44:59 PM »

I saw this. During one of her worst episodes she shouted at me "You're so mean!" but it was like she was talking to a parent. I'm not even sure if she knew where she was.

But then the next day she fully acknowledge it over text. They know what they're doing. no doubt.

They know alright but they are extremely ashamed about it. Like when you do some crazy stuff when you’re drunk and you think about it the day after.
Then, they fall back in their dementia and all is forgotten.
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daze507
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2020, 12:52:44 PM »

When she ended it she was just extremely formal, insistent, and it wasn't open for discussion. She told me she wanted to be civil and that she'd stick to the financial commitments she'd made but since then I've heard nothing at all from her, she has lots of things here and keys to the house so at some point that has to happen but so far, five weeks later, nothing.

I never picked up on any physical signs like you've listed, more a strong feeling of emotional immaturity and a very strong dependancy on her mum, dad and nan which felt more like a teenagers relationship with family... Paid no rent... All her cooking and cleaning done for her... Yet she got them all heavily involved with the house move and borrowed money off them too in order to get the place furnished.

Then, as soon as we get the keys it's like something changed and less than two weeks later she abandoned ship. Absolutely out of the blue given all the commitments she'd made and promises.

Yeah basically, she split you black and didn't want to have anything to do with you anymore (my case too, she did not come back like she did with our friend Jinglebells).
For the rest, it's not really BPD symptomatic, the girl I had after this one (26yo) showed the exact same traits, it's more about immaturity here.
So for me, either she had mild BPD or she is just very young and unstable and suddenly realized it's not what she really wanted (despite she seems to have gone from 200% to 0% in a very short time and this is however very BPD).
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cmck1984

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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2020, 12:58:20 PM »

Yeah it's just about trying to make sense of the situation, it does seem to be linked to a few possible things... She showed a lot of BPD symptoms based on some of the other topics I've read in the forum, emotional immaturity seems prevalent, and also the potential it was cold feet at the prospect of moving here, meeting my kids, new job etc... As she's so dependent on her family she'd be very far away from them and maybe reality kicked in and she fled.

It's the not knowing that's hardest. But after reading some threads lots of signs made me wonder if she could have BPD in some ways and it would be worth talking to you all about it.
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2020, 01:02:56 PM »

They know alright but they are extremely ashamed about it. Like when you do some crazy stuff when you’re drunk and you think about it the day after.
Then, they fall back in their dementia and all is forgotten.

I disagree about the dementia thing. I think they do dissociate but they definitely remember everything they've done.

But yeah you're right man. I think the shame is the reason why they deny it, give you the silent treatment, etc.
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daze507
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2020, 01:24:37 PM »

Yeah it's just about trying to make sense of the situation, it does seem to be linked to a few possible things... She showed a lot of BPD symptoms based on some of the other topics I've read in the forum, emotional immaturity seems prevalent, and also the potential it was cold feet at the prospect of moving here, meeting my kids, new job etc... As she's so dependent on her family she'd be very far away from them and maybe reality kicked in and she fled.

It's the not knowing that's hardest. But after reading some threads lots of signs made me wonder if she could have BPD in some ways and it would be worth talking to you all about it.


Yes, it's fairly normal to try to explain things.
In any case, it must be clear to you that ending a relationship like that, after so much involvement because of a simple argument just doesn't make any sense at all. This girl is clearly unstable wether she had BPD or not.
It's obvious that you have nothing to do with that and that it had not a single chance to work long term.
Best thing you can do now is to make peace with it and to cross your fingers so that she doesn't come back to ruin your life as it often happens.
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daze507
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2020, 01:26:12 PM »

I disagree about the dementia thing. I think they do dissociate but they definitely remember everything they've done.

But yeah you're right man. I think the shame is the reason why they deny it, give you the silent treatment, etc.

For my own experience and what I've read, they just don't remember things as we do. They can replace moments by others, amplify some and remove others, it's complicated. Their brain is not wired correctly.
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2020, 01:30:37 PM »

For my own experience and what I've read, they just don't remember things as we do. They can replace moments by others, amplify some and remove others, it's complicated. Their brain is not wired correctly.
in my personal opinion that is why they're able to keep tricking people. They want you to think they don't know what they're doing. It's part of the victim act. They absolutely know. I was and am still stuck on this but from all the research I've done, speaking with several licensed therapists, they are fully aware of what they're doing. It's all apart of the gaslighting.
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daze507
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2020, 01:48:59 PM »

Personally I don't think they do all that on purpose and it's all calculated. You can't act crazy eyes like the ones I saw on my ex.
Then, for what purpose? Profit? She did not get anything from me, in fact she was paying for her stuff during our date.
Pleasure of destroying people? No, she could have done fare more damage than that ifnshe wanted to.
Then, she changed jobs three times in two years and moved without having a job secured there and at the beginning of the covid crisis. Is that even a rational behaviour? Nobody with a minimum of fair sense would do that to himself.
No, these people are just sick and unstable and when you get involved with them, it never ends well.
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2020, 01:56:48 PM »



Then, as soon as we get the keys it's like something changed and less than two weeks later she abandoned ship. Absolutely out of the blue given all the commitments she'd made and promises.

I've seen this too many times, I think it's a case of to them it's too good to be true so they self sabotage. It's too good to be true so therefore something will go wrong so they make it go wrong then they can tell themselves they knew it would and they were right.
It's a pattern, they ruin everything good, it could be a good day out where everything was perfect but get back home and they start an argument. The same with holidays and birthdays, basically any good event.
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daze507
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2020, 02:16:20 PM »

I've seen this too many times, I think it's a case of to them it's too good to be true so they self sabotage. It's too good to be true so therefore something will go wrong so they make it go wrong then they can tell themselves they knew it would and they were right.
It's a pattern, they ruin everything good, it could be a good day out where everything was perfect but get back home and they start an argument. The same with holidays and birthdays, basically any good event.

That's a fair point. Could not count how many beautiful moments she ruined for insignificant or even false event like "I saw you looking at this girl" or "I wanted you to take your car" or "You gifted that lingerie for yourself not me"... Well I admit she had a fair point for the last one but it's not a reason to ruin a relationship.
Self sabotage, it's exactly what they do. I read that they do that for the fear of seeing everything beeing taken away from them so they f*ck it up before so that can not happen.
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2020, 02:25:41 PM »

Personally I don't think they do all that on purpose and it's all calculated. You can't act crazy eyes like the ones I saw on my ex.
Then, for what purpose? Profit? She did not get anything from me, in fact she was paying for her stuff during our date.
Pleasure of destroying people? No, she could have done fare more damage than that ifnshe wanted to.
Then, she changed jobs three times in two years and moved without having a job secured there and at the beginning of the covid crisis. Is that even a rational behaviour? Nobody with a minimum of fair sense would do that to himself.
No, these people are just sick and unstable and when you get involved with them, it never ends well.
I saw the crazy eyes, too. The one I was involved with has kept the same job for two years, paid her rent, etc. All the while very insidiously stalked me for close to a year. There's mental illness and then there's deliberate, sadistic behavior. I feel the former couldn't hold it together for as long as this other one has. To be fair, I may have been dealing with a sociopath/psychopath though.
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jinglebells1989
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2020, 02:29:45 PM »

I saw the crazy eyes, too. The one I was involved with has kept the same job for two years, paid her rent, etc. All the while very insidiously stalked me for close to a year. There's mental illness and then there's deliberate, sadistic behavior. I feel the former couldn't hold it together for as long as this other one has. To be fair, I may have been dealing with a sociopath/psychopath though.

This article provided some clarity: https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/they-know-what-theyre-doing/
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daze507
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2020, 02:31:16 PM »

I think that BPD and other character traits are not mutually exclusive. Some people may be evil and have BPD, others may be not. In fact, there are thousands and thousands of horror stories of men losing their childs, becoming homeless because of alimony/child support, falsely accused of sexual assaults, their life destroyed untill there is nothing left to take. I doubt all these stories have anything to do with BPD but more with an evil nature.
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2020, 03:08:08 AM »

Cmck, just take care of yourself first, find yourself, what you want to do, what you like, how you want to be treated, respect that. My ex was also amazing when I met her, the perfect partner! Then over time, a nightmare. And at the end mean, cold and vicious. Blaming me for everything. To the point that I believed it all! I had the problems, nothing wrong with her. It took a few years with a T to help me regain my self esteem. Be careful and just move on. There is nothing good there I am afraid. Nothing to fix really, nothing for you to try and deal with again. You will never fix it. The issues will keep coming back. Even if it’s great for a short time, is that really how you want to live your life? Not healthy really. Take care.
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2020, 11:15:29 AM »

My friends and family all think it is cold feet
...
Obviously the only reason she has actually given me is the argument
...
she went from 1000mph, to closing the door on me in the blink of an eye.

It has been over 3 weeks now since we last spoke and I just feel so confused and hurt by it all, I just want to make sense of it

anyone who has ever been "abandoned at the altar", so to speak, can tell you how much this hurts. your partner invests a lot. you invest a lot. you build dreams of the future. its all very intense. and then the door is shut on you, and you are left with few, if any answers.

was it cold feet? was it the argument? was it something else?

it may have been a combination of these things, and more...probably not any one thing.

obviously, the reality of such a huge commitment is very different than the fantasy and the initial feelings about it. this can cause doubts, second thoughts, or more, for anyone. even more so for someone with BPD traits; commitment can seem like happily ever after, and conversely, it can also be terrifying.

so if all that is going on, an argument could be like a confirmation of those fears, a crashing of those hopes. but it probably wasnt just the argument. all of this, unbeknownst to you, was probably going on for longer, maybe even much longer.

that may not be so obvious, and thats one of the hardest parts. someone having doubts may even push harder for commitment, seem even more enthusiastic about a future, and then seem to go cold. and the mind tends to look for any sign of how or when that started happening. it was one of the hardest aspects to get my mind around.

Excerpt
2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening. When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits. Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

know that with support, you can heal and recover from this, and that in time, things will add up, and make more sense.
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