Hi all!
It certainly takes a lot of self awareness to stay out of the Triangle and sometimes maybe we will consciously be a part of it, when standing up to extreme abuse that is not to be tolerated.
This is interesting to me as I do not see standing up for myself (as in having boundaries, using tools like Don't JADE, SET, etc) as participating in the drama triangle. Maybe I misunderstand what you said? When I talked about being active in the drama triangle, for me personally, it usually meant that I was acting on what my outer critic was telling me: seeing danger when none was there, or even when there was, reacting rather than responding, etc. So I am intrigued by what you are saying here Z.
If what my family member with BPD is doing is terribly threatening to my safety and sense of wellbeing, than getting angry can help to mobilize me to take the actions I need to take.
I agree with this. For me, it was a matter of letting myself get angry without abusing the other person in return. It also meant being self-aware enough to know when the threat was real vs one where I was reacting based on decades of old abuse and conditioned responses
The Karpman triangle requires all of the tools really. Good healthy boundaries, understanding the role of the inner and outer critic, using SET, Radical Acceptance, knowing what role we tend to take when in crisis (victim, persecutor, rescuer ... all, when talking about the Karpman drama triangle are unhealthy).
I do think you have been living a sort of personal Coronavirus Pandemic for many years, and you do not get sucked into the Karpman Triangle so easily because most of the time you have your priorities straight.
Thanks but (!) I get in the drama often enough... even when I am all by myself! I can play all three roles. We all can. Like you said above somewhere, it is a matter of being able to see that and choosing to act differently or maturely as
Once removed said.
The discussion about power is interesting. As a child, my mother had total power over me. As an adult, her power was the result of my att, achment to my father. She controlled him and so by extension, had ways to manipulate me.
This is a good point. If my mother had died after my father, I would have had the same situation. I gave up all hope and had no desire for anything that belonged to my parents, but for me, that is just the way I am. I appreciate things and I value them but items don't mean that much to me. It was a lesson I learned early on as all too often, what I valued was destroyed or taken away or worst of all, I *gave* it to my mother to try to earn her love. I do keep a box of all the cards I have ever received from friends over the years and other small token. None from my parents. I have two items in my home that belonged to my parents but not because they have any value to me but simply because i like them and they are one of a kind. Sometimes I wonder if that makes me careless or callous in some ways. Though I do feel sad if I lose something someone gave me but it is fleeting. What bothers me and hurts is if I find out there was some deception around the act of giving or the item in question.
I actually was able to get some of the sentimental items later and I am glad for that. Eventually though, I realized I had to let go of my wanting them as much, as a way to be free of her control.
Well said Notwendy. Maybe you and zachira got to a point i did not get to in time. The point where I could keep something that 'came from that darned house' or that was in the room when <whatever> happened all the time, etc.
Yes, it is time to move on, and I wish I could be fully no contact with the family.
I am always hesitant to suggest this but I am going to do it as I know you know I care and say it with care. Can you change the wording you use around this? Maybe say "I choose to continue limited contact right now and for however long it takes to resolve the shared property issue". Maybe I am knocking on the wrong door here and it is not an issue for you? To let you know where I am coming from, I try to be careful in my wording of things like this. Rather than feeling like I
have to stay in contact (and all that entails), I prefer to see it as a
choice that I made and that I can change at any time. For me, choice is more empowering and for me it is more accurate as I could indeed make other choices. Does that apply here? I may not be seeing your situation fully so I apologize if this is off the mark. Please disregard if it is.
Hi PeaceMom!
Maybe the Karpman triangle is more about the perception (not reality) of being a victim when there are actually choices to escape?
I think so. There are a couple of ways you can look at the Karpman Triangle. One is to try to predict how the other person will see our role and to understand their role so we can better respond. Another way is to look at what our behaviors bring to the dynamic and how our behaviors can either start or add to the drama triangle and use it as a way to figure out how to respond in healthy ways (basically using all of the other tools, at least in the way I look at things). BTW, I don't mean that to seem as an either or choice. Both ways can be done at the same time.
I know for a fact that about once a year, I’d attack back with hollering, mean words, slamming doors, storming out, ignoring... this was actually me becoming a perpetrator, not just being one in my mind. And as for a rescuer, I have been an actual rescuer on 100s of occasions.
Me too! Like I said, I can play all three roles.
This mindset seemed different than when she was raging screaming toxic words in my ear while driving her to school, I was truly a victim those days.
I agree. It works(ed) this way for me too.
Maybe we never talk about this on the parent board because we all seem to be in the middle of trying to fix the plane while it’s flying. Usually we are in frantic crisis mode. We are trying to protect our kids while not being drowned by them. Hmmm
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zachira, I don't know how you guys do it and you all have my admiration and encouragement. I wonder if changing how you view working on this stuff might help. Rather than seeing it as something to learn or yet another thing to work on (or whatever fits for you) you can view this and the other tools and practicing them as self care? A lot of people get frustrated with the tools at times because they seem to focus on our pwBPD. I have come to look at the tools as primarily being for me and sometimes they help the other person.
I loved my mother very much while she was alive (still do). I also enabled her, persecuted her and was 'her victim' long after I moved out from under her rule. The challenge then became to get her out of my head. Eventually, I became an adult with awareness of the disorder and them the self awareness of my own behaviors. Then I became aware of the choices available to me (part of taking back my power). I may not always like the choices, but unless I am a child or a literal prisoner, I do have choice. Sometimes, as we discussed above, that means walking away even when I love someone. Sometimes it means changing how I choose to act on the love I feel.
