Ex charmed me back and then destroyed me. Why? Or am I missing something?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

An ex 'long distant' girlfriend (who I don't remember having or showing signs of BPD when we dated) reached out to me after years, and reeled me back in pretty hard. She says she finally broke up with her boyfriend of 5 years.

We have stayed in touch since we dated (which is now 10 years ago) and she has been seeking support with me whenever she had a relationship crisis. I'm actually happy for her she finally broke it off with him.

Things she told me about her boyfriend the past years: After two years of being ok and living together, she broke up and moved to another city. Then they stayed semi-together in an endless on/off cycle. She would tell he doesn’t show her any physical affection anymore, despite saying that he still loves her. That this makes her feel so insecure, unattractive and rejected that this makes her even change the way she holds herself around other people. That they still argue a lot and he sometimes stays in a hotel because she refuses to stay with him. And that she feels she’s to blame for it. That she already criticises herself a lot and with his ‘help’ it’s like 1,2,3, to destroy her self esteem. That they basically live like brother and sister and for her it’s over, but he won’t let her go. That she’s constantly mad with him. She says it’s hard to rebuild anything new and it will take her some time to feel differently. She breaks up with him again but he ignores it and keeps acting as if they’re still together. And so they keep going on/off, on/off.


She reached out to tell me it's really finally over between them now. Then starts talking about how she always trusted me, feels so safe with me, that she always kept some things from me in her house, carefully hidden from her boyfriend. That she always had avoided certain places with him because me and her have memories there. How I am the only one who really understands her and her past (she has quite a lot of 'emotional baggage' ) We actually had a few long deep and meaningful conversations on the phone. Then came the flirting and being all sexy. Showing me lingerie I got her (she always kept then) and she wanted to get together again. To relive some of our hot nights and to celebrate how we still love each other and are still in touch after all these years. Also she could need a break from her mother passing unexpectedly earlier that year and the whole aftermath of the breakup with her boyfriend.

We decide to plan a weekend together. First available moment for her to travel is 6 weeks later. We continue chatting and flirting and I notice that I'm actually starting to develop feelings again for her. Yes it's a lot of hard flirting and sexy talk but also lots of meaningful and deep conversations about us and all important things in life, and how we both stayed each other's "what if..?"

I tell her that I start to feel butterflies again and that I don't want to wait 6 more weeks to see her. I suggest I could come visit her the next weekend if she wants?

To my surprise the look on her faced changed to what I can only describe as being disgusted. "Don't be so weak, don't be like that." she says. "No, you can't come here this weekend". I'm baffled. I ask her why she wouldn't like me to come see her? Wouldn't that be romantic? I'm very confused. Out of the blue she says she's having another date this weekend with somebody who she finds interesting, and that there's a 'dynamic' she need to handle and she wants "all this to be over first". What what what? This doesn't make sense to me at all after those nights of sweet talk about the old days and us planning getting together again. I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. I regroup myself and tell her that I'm not up for getting all excited to see her in six weeks, when there's a chance she might be seeing someone else by then? I tell her if she wants to do our 'romance weekend' there's no messing around with others in between, and that that also counts for me. I'm just not up for that, especially now that I'm developing feelings again?

I suggest to at least book flights and hotel for our weekend but this is also turned down by her. She insists to book everything closer to the date so things feel more 'last minute' as that idea is more exciting to her. (Huh?)

I'm confused and decide to take a step back from all this. The next week she feels distant, but sends me a picture showing a big cut on her nose. I ask her what happened and she says it was an accident at the gym. I'm also a bit worried about the empty look in her eyes in that picture.

We chat a bit more and to my surprise she starts talking about her ex. That he still has the keys to her house and sometimes comes inside her house when she’s at work to ‘check if there’s still pictures of them hanging on the wall’ and he would leave notes for her. That he brought her flowers and gave her a ride to the airport which was “actually handy”. That his mother is very ill and she feels obliged to ask him about it, because that she can’t be rude to him after “all he did for her”. That she feels afraid to slip back into the relationship again, because, like always, he just keeps acting like they are still together. That he asked her if he could stay at her place for one month because of a new job close to her house, and that she feels like she can’t refuse it because he still helped her pay the deposit for her apartment when she moved in. (?)

I call her naif for letting all that happen if the relationship is over? She responds by saying I'm too soft with being so ok with him still hanging around. That I should behave like a real man and conquer her. I tell her that I wanted to drop everything and come see her the weekend before already, but she looked disgusted by that idea. She turns this conversation around by complaining that I'm 'always so OK with everything'. That I'm soft and not a real man for tolerating all that contact with her ex. That she could be sleeping with him and me at the same time and I wouldn't even care. (I think to myself: why would you make a comment like that if that's not already happening or about to happen?) I'm confused and hurt by these remarks. I tried to organise a fantastic weekend for her (her idea) and she wouldn't let me book it. At the same time it also just feels like manipulating. Pushing my buttons.

We have a confusing conversation about how she can not get too excited about our weekend because she knows I will leave once the weekend is over, and at the same time she accuses me of not projecting a future for us together after said weekend. She would either blame me for not being invested enough or mock me for expecting too much. She literally says it's only gonna be just the weekend and that's it, and the next moment she says I'm not fighting for her enough. But when I do, she blames me for getting too excited. Whatever path I take, it's the wrong one. However, she tells me to book tickets now and we gonna have a fun weekend.

The next ten days she's hardly reachable. I'd ask her about her day, she would reply hours later or not at all. Short answers that she was busy, tired, or already in bed. I send her messages that if she wants to talk I'm here for her. No response.

Almost a week of no contact passes other than one text of her saying she's been a bit sick all week. Until 3 days before our date I ask her if she's still up for our weekend at all? And that I find it strange that she invites me, has be book a flight and then becomes so distant. She gives me a cryptic reply "Since we gonna see each other live soon, chatting is less exciting". (?)

Needless to say the weekend turns into one big pull/push disaster. Extreme mood swings from her, very childish behaviour, sabotaging all our plans, picking random fights, but in between very passionate kissing and lovemaking. It's a confusing rollercoaster. The final night of the weekend we are again engaged in making our passionately when all of a sudden she starts insulting me, my loved ones, my life, basically my entire being and tells me to go find a hotel and sleep somewhere else.

At this point I've had it and indeed packed my stuff and left, slamming the door behind me. Once out side I realise this is a mistake and just a victory for her so I return. But the damage is irreversible. She starts yelling that now that I've slammed the door she has seen the 'real' me, my aggressive side, and that I will soon start beating her up. I'm baffled. She doesn't want to talk anymore and sleeps on the coach.

Next morning I leave in silence. Sad, confused, hurt. We have a more words via text, until she announces that she is back with her ex. Stating that because she gave me a chance and it turned out to be a cold shower, so now she can give him another chance too. (?)

Then I'm blocked everywhere.


What have I witnessed here?

Did she develop BPD over time and is she playing me and was she never actually single? But why then let me come over? Or was that to play a game with her ex?

Or is she actually in an abusive relationship herself (she has been in one before, before I met her) and did her ex charm / manipulate her back? What was that cut on her nose?

I am really confused why she reached out, invited me, reeled me in with sweet words and sex, and then started the pull/push circus. And why on earth did she let me come visit her if she already decided she was going back to her relationship or if it was never over at all? Just to kiss me passionately and then destroy and block me?

Thanks in advance for any insight

[Felix_78]

Hi all,

An ex 'long distant' girlfriend (who I don't remember having or showing signs of BPD when we dated) reached out to me after years, and reeled me back in pretty hard. She says she finally broke up with her boyfriend of 5 years.

We have stayed in touch since we dated (which is now 10 years ago) and she has been seeking support with me whenever she had a relationship crisis. I'm actually happy for her she finally broke it off with him.

Things she told me about her boyfriend the past years: After two years of being ok and living together, she broke up and moved to another city. Then they stayed semi-together in an endless on/off cycle. She would tell he doesn’t show her any physical affection anymore, despite saying that he still loves her. That this makes her feel so insecure, unattractive and rejected that this makes her even change the way she holds herself around other people. That they still argue a lot and he sometimes stays in a hotel because she refuses to stay with him. And that she feels she’s to blame for it. That she already criticises herself a lot and with his ‘help’ it’s like 1,2,3, to destroy her self esteem. That they basically live like brother and sister and for her it’s over, but he won’t let her go. That she’s constantly mad with him. She says it’s hard to rebuild anything new and it will take her some time to feel differently. She breaks up with him again but he ignores it and keeps acting as if they’re still together. And so they keep going on/off, on/off.


She reached out to tell me it's really finally over between them now. Then starts talking about how she always trusted me, feels so safe with me, that she always kept some things from me in her house, carefully hidden from her boyfriend. That she always had avoided certain places with him because me and her have memories there. How I am the only one who really understands her and her past (she has quite a lot of 'emotional baggage' ) We actually had a few long deep and meaningful conversations on the phone. Then came the flirting and being all sexy. Showing me lingerie I got her (she always kept then) and she wanted to get together again. To relive some of our hot nights and to celebrate how we still love each other and are still in touch after all these years. Also she could need a break from her mother passing unexpectedly earlier that year and the whole aftermath of the breakup with her boyfriend.

We decide to plan a weekend together. First available moment for her to travel is 6 weeks later. We continue chatting and flirting and I notice that I'm actually starting to develop feelings again for her. Yes it's a lot of hard flirting and sexy talk but also lots of meaningful and deep conversations about us and all important things in life, and how we both stayed each other's "what if..?"

I tell her that I start to feel butterflies again and that I don't want to wait 6 more weeks to see her. I suggest I could come visit her the next weekend if she wants?

To my surprise the look on her faced changed to what I can only describe as being disgusted. "Don't be so weak, don't be like that." she says. "No, you can't come here this weekend". I'm baffled. I ask her why she wouldn't like me to come see her? Wouldn't that be romantic? I'm very confused. Out of the blue she says she's having another date this weekend with somebody who she finds interesting, and that there's a 'dynamic' she need to handle and she wants "all this to be over first". What what what? This doesn't make sense to me at all after those nights of sweet talk about the old days and us planning getting together again. I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. I regroup myself and tell her that I'm not up for getting all excited to see her in six weeks, when there's a chance she might be seeing someone else by then? I tell her if she wants to do our 'romance weekend' there's no messing around with others in between, and that that also counts for me. I'm just not up for that, especially now that I'm developing feelings again?

I suggest to at least book flights and hotel for our weekend but this is also turned down by her. She insists to book everything closer to the date so things feel more 'last minute' as that idea is more exciting to her. (Huh?)

I'm confused and decide to take a step back from all this. The next week she feels distant, but sends me a picture showing a big cut on her nose. I ask her what happened and she says it was an accident at the gym. I'm also a bit worried about the empty look in her eyes in that picture.

We chat a bit more and to my surprise she starts talking about her ex. That he still has the keys to her house and sometimes comes inside her house when she’s at work to ‘check if there’s still pictures of them hanging on the wall’ and he would leave notes for her. That he brought her flowers and gave her a ride to the airport which was “actually handy”. That his mother is very ill and she feels obliged to ask him about it, because that she can’t be rude to him after “all he did for her”. That she feels afraid to slip back into the relationship again, because, like always, he just keeps acting like they are still together. That he asked her if he could stay at her place for one month because of a new job close to her house, and that she feels like she can’t refuse it because he still helped her pay the deposit for her apartment when she moved in. (?)

I call her naif for letting all that happen if the relationship is over? She responds by saying I'm too soft with being so ok with him still hanging around. That I should behave like a real man and conquer her. I tell her that I wanted to drop everything and come see her the weekend before already, but she looked disgusted by that idea. She turns this conversation around by complaining that I'm 'always so OK with everything'. That I'm soft and not a real man for tolerating all that contact with her ex. That she could be sleeping with him and me at the same time and I wouldn't even care. (I think to myself: why would you make a comment like that if that's not already happening or about to happen?) I'm confused and hurt by these remarks. I tried to organise a fantastic weekend for her (her idea) and she wouldn't let me book it. At the same time it also just feels like manipulating. Pushing my buttons.

We have a confusing conversation about how she can not get too excited about our weekend because she knows I will leave once the weekend is over, and at the same time she accuses me of not projecting a future for us together after said weekend. She would either blame me for not being invested enough or mock me for expecting too much. She literally says it's only gonna be just the weekend and that's it, and the next moment she says I'm not fighting for her enough. But when I do, she blames me for getting too excited. Whatever path I take, it's the wrong one. However, she tells me to book tickets now and we gonna have a fun weekend.

The next ten days she's hardly reachable. I'd ask her about her day, she would reply hours later or not at all. Short answers that she was busy, tired, or already in bed. I send her messages that if she wants to talk I'm here for her. No response.

Almost a week of no contact passes other than one text of her saying she's been a bit sick all week. Until 3 days before our date I ask her if she's still up for our weekend at all? And that I find it strange that she invites me, has be book a flight and then becomes so distant. She gives me a cryptic reply "Since we gonna see each other live soon, chatting is less exciting". (?)

Needless to say the weekend turns into one big pull/push disaster. Extreme mood swings from her, very childish behaviour, sabotaging all our plans, picking random fights, but in between very passionate kissing and lovemaking. It's a confusing rollercoaster. The final night of the weekend we are again engaged in making our passionately when all of a sudden she starts insulting me, my loved ones, my life, basically my entire being and tells me to go find a hotel and sleep somewhere else.

At this point I've had it and indeed packed my stuff and left, slamming the door behind me. Once out side I realise this is a mistake and just a victory for her so I return. But the damage is irreversible. She starts yelling that now that I've slammed the door she has seen the 'real' me, my aggressive side, and that I will soon start beating her up. I'm baffled. She doesn't want to talk anymore and sleeps on the coach.

Next morning I leave in silence. Sad, confused, hurt. We have a more words via text, until she announces that she is back with her ex. Stating that because she gave me a chance and it turned out to be a cold shower, so now she can give him another chance too. (?)

Then I'm blocked everywhere.


What have I witnessed here?

Did she develop BPD over time and is she playing me and was she never actually single? But why then let me come over? Or was that to play a game with her ex?

Or is she actually in an abusive relationship herself (she has been in one before, before I met her) and did her ex charm / manipulate her back? What was that cut on her nose?

I am really confused why she reached out, invited me, reeled me in with sweet words and sex, and then started the pull/push circus. And why on earth did she let me come visit her if she already decided she was going back to her relationship or if it was never over at all? Just to kiss me passionately and then destroy and block me?

Thanks in advance for any insight

[Turkish]

That they basically live like brother and sister and for her it’s over, but he won’t let her go. That she’s constantly mad with him. She says it’s hard to rebuild anything new and it will take her some time to feel differently. She breaks up with him again but he ignores it and keeps acting as if they’re still together. And so they keep going on/off, on/off.

It takes two to tango. Was she held prisoner? I think you nailed it with your comment about emotional immaturity. She sounds like a thrill seeker.

[Felix_78]

It takes two to tango. Was she held prisoner? I think you nailed it with your comment about emotional immaturity. She sounds like a thrill seeker.

Hi Turkish, thanks for your reply.

I definitely agree that it takes two to tango, and I think if she really wants to leave him for good she could do so. Or did they never really break up and is she just saying that to get some positive attention from me?


Would you say she pretends him to be manipulative and abusive to justify why she keeps going back time and time again?

Like crying 'oh he won't let me go, look how he's stalking me! I can't help but going back!'

Or is she really naif and doesn't see how she's being manipulated by him?

And why on earth would she still invite me, only to sabotage the weekend. To make her boyfriend jealous?

I just don't get it, because by blocking me she also lost a good friend in me who supported her for the past 10 years.

Maybe you would like to elaborate a bit more?

Thanks in advance!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Felix,   Welcome!  Most of the time, it boils down to a fear of abandonment for those w/BPD.  If you get too close, a pwBPD fears you will leave, so the pwBPD will push you away to avoid that outcome.  "I love you; go away" is a familiar theme in the land of BPD.

Now that you know what you know, what would you like to see happen going forwards?

LuckyJim

[Felix_78]

Hi Lucky Jim, thanks for your reply.

I can understand the pull/push (I love you, go away) dynamic in people with BPD.

Would you say that is what happened with me and her (her inviting me over, and then sabotaging the entire weekend, insulting me to the bone and then blocking me), as well as in her continuous on/off relationship with her current (ex)boyfriend?

And if it's her pushing her current boyfriend away all these years (because she loves him), where do you then draw the line between him "fighting to win her back each time", and "creepy/stalking behaviour" from his part?

Like I said, I do understand how push/pull works with BPD. But this woman was living together with her partner for two years and then moved out to a different city, alone, to start something new. That's a pretty bold move for a 'I love you, go away'?

Then after three years of pull/push on/off she finally "really" breaks it off and is in fact actively dating other men, including me.

Her ex keeps denying the breakup, keeps her keys, comes inside her house uninvited to check if his picture is still on the wall, sends unsolicited gifts, shows up uninvited, keeps some financial control over her (rent), creates some drama (Ill family member) and guilts her into letting him stay in her house again because all what he did for her and all of a sudden having a new job in her city. All that sounds very much like (illegal) stalking to me?

Or is she making all this stuff up, so she has an excuse to go back to him?

Or does the fact that she is pulling and pushing justify his stalking?


As for your question what I would like to see happen going forward:
I guess between me and her there is no going forward. I don't pursue a relationship with her, nor do I desire to have her back as my girlfriend.

I do want to understand what's going on here, and if she possible is in an abusive relationship. What it looks like to me tbh. Despite seeing her as the one creating chaos, I have a bad taste in my mouth about that ex. Especially when I see she has a big cut in her nose and she gives a dubious explanation?

I care about her a lot, more in a big brother kind of way I guess. She's in her mid 30s now and has been through a lot in her life. She doesn't deserve another abusive relationship.

If I wouldn't have this bad feeling, I would shrug my shoulders and walk away. I just want to make sure for myself I'm not missing some major red flags she might be in a bad place.

Thanks in advance if you wish to elaborate a bit further

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Felix, Agree, it all sounds pretty strange.  Another way to look at it could be her need for drama.  Those w/BPD will often "upset the applecart" if things are going too well.  As a result, they sometimes sabotage the outcome, as you have seen.  Hard to say whether she's inventing stuff to get your attention.  Either way, it all involves a lot of drama, which is a way of keeping you, and others, off-balance.

In my marriage to a pwBPD, I thought that we would reach a plateau of relative stability in our r/s, which proved to be a mirage.  We never attained it.  Instead, we went from one "crisis" to another.  If things were calm, my Ex would pick a fight or do something to cause turmoil.  As time went on, I grew tired of the drama, which I came to see as something largely self-created.

I agree that pursuing a r/s with her at this point is likely to prove fruitless.

LJ

 

[Felix_78]

Hi Lucky Jim,

thanks again for your answer. You are absolutely right about her probably creating drama and chaos when things are going too well.

I have been in a 5 year relationship with a diagnosed women with BPD before, and I really recognise her behaviours in this situation. A lot actually.

However... My question is: is she in an abusive relationship right now?

I totally agree that a relationship with someone with BPD will always be on again / off again in some ways. I've been through that with someone else myself.

But at which point do you say: "oh she just likes (to create) drama"  and when do you say "she really actually wants to break up but her ex emotionally and physically abuses and manipulates her"?

Do you agree that, if it's true, the behaviour of her ex is pretty creepy?

Don't get me wrong, I really hope her boyfriend is actually the love of her life and it's just all romantic stuff between them with some pulling and pushing. And for the past years I've always shrugged my shoulders and thought: "ok whatever, her life, her choice, her decision, her drama"

But this time I just have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing. It feels like she's scared of him and he really does not respect her wish to end the relationship and is stalking his way back.

Do you agree the behaviour of her ex ticks all the boxes of emotional abuse? Or am I seeing ghosts here?

It worries me she might be in a bad place and I want to double check if I'm seeing this all wrong.

Thanks again in advance for future replies/insights.

[Turkish]

Would you say she pretends him to be manipulative and abusive to justify why she keeps going back time and time again?

It's hard to know what to believe and that's frustrating. She hasn't been honest with you vis-a-vis you and her,  so can she be trusted to tell the truth? It could be true,  but is their relationship your business?

Our son says that his mom screams at him.  He's ASD-1. He's definitely sensitive. She minimized it reminding me that he's sensitive. I know it. He was hitting me last year and I put my arm up such that it hurt him when he tried to hit me.  Then bye accused me of hitting him.  Perception. I think i raise my voice a lot with the kids, but when I asked him if he thought I ever yelled at him, he said no.  I asked him a few times. I think his mom minimizes her own behaviors. I lived with her, I know. Perception.

A pwBPD feels worthless and unworthy of being loved at their core, while desperately seeking to be loved. The complications arise with intimacy and closeness, and dysfunctional coping mechanisms which are further complicated by co-morbidities such as Anxiety and Depression.

You're worried and you care about her, that's given, but it's complicated in that she's likely an "unreliable narrator" of her own story. 

Say what she says is true.  What can you do with that, given how she push-pulled? What do you ultimately want for you?

[once removed]

it sounds like she wasnt entirely done with her relationship, and you were caught in the middle of that.

its heartbreaking, to be caught in the middle of that 

she may have been exploring her options. people in a sort of stage of "im not done, emotionally, but im looking elsewhere" do this sort of thing, and are selfish in that regard.

[Felix_78]

It's hard to know what to believe and that's frustrating. She hasn't been honest with you vis-a-vis you and her,  so can she be trusted to tell the truth? It could be true,  but is their relationship your business?

Hi Turkish, thanks for sharing some more insight.

You are absolutely right, it's impossible to know what exactly is the truth, and it's also a matter of perspective.

It's a good question if their relationship is my business. It's not. But it feels it became my business when she started complaining about it asked me for advice.

Through the years she has been coming to me 'complaining' that for her the relationship is over and she wants to move on (including moving to a different city) but her ex always finds ways to keep her in the relationship. Of course you could argue that she's only playing pull/push and she actually loves it when he comes crawling back after her. But her stories about the relation became more worrisome over time (her feeling bad about herself, insecure, low self esteem, argueing all the time). I never really cared how or if they eventually got together again, but this time it feels she gave me a little insight how her ex operates. (Stalking, controlling, manipulating)

Is the fact that she behaves in a way that could be described as BPD a reason to say that everything she ever said is false and just one big game?

As for what I want for myself, I already stated that I would love to hear some feedback if the bad taste in my mouth is correct or not. For me it looks like her slipping back to her ex isn't that voluntary at all. Or am I seeing ghosts?

Do you walk away from a situation when you suspect abuse? Because there's nothing to gain personally?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer.

[Felix_78]

it sounds like she wasnt entirely done with her relationship, and you were caught in the middle of that.

Hi once removed, thanks for replying.

You are absolutely right she wasn't entirely done with her relationship at all. It's very obvious that this 'situation' was just one of her many break up / make up cycles. And I have seen them a couple of times before with her, as she would reach out to me whenever she was "single" again.

Previous times I never gave it much attention if they appeared to be back together again after some time. Like mentioned here before: not my problem, not my business, it's her life, her drama, her choices.

However, as these on again/off again cycles between them seem to oscillate so much harder over time, I'm starting to wonder if it's an 'innocent' case of push/pull from her side, or if she actually got caught up in something a lot more toxic and possibly abusive.

I have been in a five year long relationship before with push/pull behaviour from my partner. And yes, I have tried safe our love/relationship a couple of times too. But I could not imagine myself following my ex to another city and keep acting like we were still together. Or stalking her by getting inside her house when she's not there, showing up uninvitedly, guilting my way back into her life. That's just creepy I think.

At what point do you stop saying "oh she just likes to make stuff up and play the damsel in distress" and start wondering if her disorder perhaps attracted an abusive partner who preys on her emotional weaknesses?

It is known that for instant malignant narcissist tend to prey on borderlines. She has been with one before and has been physically abused before. This also tends to repeat.

Where do you draw the line between saying ok not my problem, and maybe my BPD friend is in trouble/danger?

Or should you just always turn around and walk away?

Thanks in advance for any further insights.

[once removed]

Where do you draw the line between saying ok not my problem, and maybe my BPD friend is in trouble/danger?

Or should you just always turn around and walk away?

i dont mean to be flip about this at all when i ask, if this thing is the worst case scenario, what influence do you think you could have? what, ideally, would you hope to do?

some of my best, closest friends, seek and then reject my advice or counsel. it does pain me.

but i cant imagine how, as an ex romantic partner, id be able to help an ex romantic partner with their relationship, other than to help, as i would anyone, if they sought my help.