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Author Topic: Wife left me and I’m very confused  (Read 1173 times)
Adventurer006

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« on: July 07, 2020, 12:06:32 PM »

Hello, first time doing this.  My story is very long, but I will try to make it brief. My wife has left and seems to have completely turned on me.  It’s not the first time, she has left in similar fashion before over our 14 years, but things have been stable for about 8.  She doesn’t have any diagnosis, but in my research BPD and NPD all ring a lot of bells.   She has been raging on me over any little thing for 2 months. She is accusing me of being everything she is being, ie narcissist, controlling, isolating, etc.   She ripped pretty much every part of me to shreds and doesn’t seem to feel any remorse about it.  No apologies, just continued attacks over anything.   8 years ago it was similar, and then all of a sudden she was willing to work things out after about 4 months and I had to get a lawyer to get visitation with me son.   When we got back together, things seemed to be great, and remained pretty stable up until about a year ago, in the last trimester of our 3rd child.  Things progressively got worse over the course of the past year, and I was feeling like she was baiting me into fights, looking for an excuse to take off.    I am devastated.  We have 3 children, in my opinion had a great life going, and from what I saw and what she would tell me, is that she was happy and content.  Now she is saying she was miserable and hated her life.  She has not filed anything, but is saying she is moving out and signed a lease.   She sometimes says she is 100% done, then sometimes says she doesn’t know.   She claims to have seen 3 counselors now and doesn’t like any of them.  Also is now saying that I have the problem and there is nothing wrong with her, when she was initially telling me she didn’t know what was going on in her own head.   I am so lost.  I love her and my family dearly, but I don’t know what to do.  She tells me she doesn’t trust me, and I betrayed her by talking to my parents and family about this situation. 
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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2020, 03:27:25 PM »

Hi there.. Not sure how much advice I can give you but your situation is almost exactly like mine.  We have one daughter 12 and in August will be married 16 years.  She is doing the same thing your wife is.  She moved out last month and only giving me blanket statements. When I ask for examples of how I am controlling, etc.. that sets her off.

She finally did her first counseling today.  I understand the anxiety of all of this and wanting answers.  You and I both do.  The best way I can explain it to my daughter is that though some people get sick in their belly, right now mom is sick in her mind and I don't know if or when it will clear up any.  Are you going to counseling?  It's helping me.  Also helping me keeping a daily journal.  Just take it day by day or hour by hour.  Try not to let it hit your own self-worth.
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Adventurer006

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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2020, 11:50:36 PM »

Thanks for the reply.  I am doing counseling and it’s helping a bit.  She was initially interested in counseling, has been to 3 places and quite them all, and now believes nothing is wrong with her, she was just miserable our whole relationship and it’s all my fault.  However she has been revealing more of how her family is encouraging all of this and adding fuel to the fire.  They seem to be the controlling ones to me, and my counselor as well.   I’m getting very mixed messages from her.  A lot of damage has been done.  It’s been very difficult to sit here  and watch my whole marriage, life, and kids lives go up in flames and not be able to do a single thing about it.
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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2020, 02:55:30 PM »

Wow.. I wonder if our wives are related.  As my wife quit her counseling (psychologist) 5 years ago because the psychologist started touching on her childhood.  Her dad was the abuser and now she is trying to get his approval non-stop, who just so happens to be best friends and an employee of her ex-bf. 

Like your wife, my wife is convinced that her life is miserable because of me and our daughter and that we give her too much stress.  We both tried to tell her that our reactions are to your bad decision making but she cannot process that.

Yes, it's so difficult to watch it go up like this.  That is the hardest part.  You want to try to reason with them but they have no desire too.  Not sure how you felt but this whole marriage of mine, I was always the fixer.  Fixing her issues, thinking she would learn from her mistakes.  Problem is, at least my wife didn't.

So what do we do?  In my opinion and what kind of gets their 'wall' down some is to basically tell them 'I love you, I am here if you need me', then let it go.  She will come around at some point and when she does and starts blaming you, use the SET and the JADE that they talk about on here.  It's basically not arguing or trying to defend yourself when they hurl all the blame onto you.  You want to by instinct argue your case but don't.  I find using the words 'I understand' (part of SET) seems to work.  What my counselor told me by using SET you are not telling them that they are right (and they don't perceive that to be either) but that they feel understood.  That's the most important part.  Along with not to react to what they are doing or did, but react to their feelings on why they did it. 

It's hard and I slip up quite a bit.  It's not what you say but how you say it.  I also suggest look up on YouTube for 'Walking on eggshells'.  Remember they fear abandonment but trying to get yourself close to them has the opposite effect when they feel too close to someone.  It's confusing and it feels like you are walking on a tightrope.

I also have to remember that I am not her counselor and you are not hers.  If she is not willing to get help, my suggestion would be to still offer it to her now and then and let her know it's helping you de-stress.  Personally I am bracing myself for the worst.  My wife is financially very irresponsible and I know at some point she will be looking to me for money which I will not give her.  That's when her fangs will come out and her vengeance will appear.

I would recommend the lessons on here about SET and JADE.  Just please remember to keep taking care of yourself.  It's easy to be co-dependent on them.
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Adventurer006

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 11:44:40 PM »

Wow man, thanks for that.  That was really informative.  I actually read that while being attacked and used your advice, and it seemed to halt the onslaught.  Supposed to try couples counseling tomorrow, but she seems to be doing it just to do it.  I’m not hopeful.  She is claiming she is done, though 2 or 3 nights ago she FaceTimed me naked.  Leaves me extremely confused.  I notice when I feel like I get the wall down a bit, hours later or the next day, I get raged on out of nowhere.  That’s really interesting about the father as well.  I feel her mother was the abuser and is very controlling.  She wants her three daughters enmeshed with her and each other.  My wife was always a bit of the black sheep, which I think may be why she was abused.  Most of the time she doesn’t like her mother and can’t stand being around her.   I’ve always felt she gives her a lot of anxiety.  Now with this situation and past breakups between us, her mother is heavily involved.  All of a sudden it’s like she walks on water to my wife.  She is listening to everything she says, and then her mother is encouraging/validating all of these false and exaggerated thoughts she is having. I also believe her mother and sisters planted a lot of the thoughts to begin with.    I almost feel like I was replaced by her mother.  She seems pretty dead set on moving out into this condo, and may be filing soon.   I’m losing hope day by day.  My wife is not responsible with money as well and has no idea what she is getting into.  Unfortunately I believe she is going to fall on her rear, as this condo is very expensive and I have paid all the bills for us.  I believe she will have more bills than income, even with child support.  I’ve been trying to prevent this from happening, but there doesn’t seem to be any getting past this wall.  I think I may need to just start moving on with my life.
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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 09:31:39 AM »

It seems like every time they need validation they are going to the people that messed them up to begin with.  I realized that I cannot be my wife's counselor all that did was for her to unleash on me.  IMO don't talk about her mom to her as I don't talk about her dad to her.  It will only cause more issues.  As for finances my wife is the same.  I pay all the bills and have paid off payday loans and credit cards in the tens of thousands.  The boundary I made to myself is that when my wife is out of money I will not pay any of her bills, even with the promise of her coming back.  Otherwise she will either lie and continue to have that place or eventually go back to it. 

Read the lessons here they provide a lot of guidance.  They will take anything you say and put it into the context that fits their mood (if you are being painted black).  My wife does that, she could say the meanest things and not apologize however if I make a light-hearted joke she can easily twist it and make it seem like I am evil.  A previous counselor told me to not do anything for her to be upset about and see her reaction, however that is literally impossible.  It makes it hard to think about the future when they devalue you so much and thinking when is it going to happen again.

In my opinion try approaching her this way when she brings up moving.  Tell her "I understand you are very upset and things are very confusing, I am here when you want to talk".  "I feel that this is a speedbump we are passing over and we will have better times ahead of us if you can hold out from leaving".  "If you decide to leave then I cannot support you financially with this new place due to the financial issues I have here".  IMO you are telling her you understand what she is going through and that you continue to be there for her but that your boundary is that you will not pay (ie. tolerate) her moving".   Then let it go.  Whatever her reaction is, don't JADE it. 

My wife has me painted black.  She is an alcoholic but sober for 9 months.  She took one little sentence I said to her and has put me over the coals.  I have been doing the SET and JADE and showing support for her.  Last week she had a root canal done and she was having bad pain.  All the meds were not working.  She was in a bad mood and I said this out of jest "You know I would never allow this but I have a small bottle of Yukon whiskey in my car" and I only said it because I thought of back in the day they would use whiskey to numb the pain.  I would never give it to her and the bottle was never opened.  I had it there to give to a friend that I haven't caught up with.  Well she took that to the extremes and doesn't trust me with her sobriety.   Even though I was the one that took her to rehab and would find bottles in the house and actually bought a breathalyzer for her.  So take heed that they will find fault in anything you do while being devalued.

Just remember to not let it hit your own-self worth.  It's easy to do.  One day at a time or even one hour at a time.  Take a deep breath and realize that tomorrow will come.
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 10:56:52 AM »

I appreciate it.   We did first counseling the other day. I feel like it went ok, but the counselor seemed to have focused on her, and just listened to her twisted version of things, painting me to be this controlling abuser.  I was able to get some things in, and I feel like my wife contradicted herself a few times, and showed how petty some of her issues are that she is using to justify all of this.   I am hoping the counselor is able to see through all of this and is able to get to the root of these issues.   
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Brooklyn1974
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2020, 12:23:37 PM »

If the counselor is good they will see through it.  Remember it's not a blame game.  Read up on the SET and JADE.  My wife still has me painted black and last night/this morning was not good.  She has a second phone after she left and her and her ex-bf are communicating on it.  My daughter asked last night to see it and my wife got very defensive and left, saying she's not coming back.  She was back like an hour later.  She's been cold and distant this whole month to us.  This morning (kind of knew the answer) but wanted to see what she said.  I asked her if she loved me, her response "I love you as a person".  What the heck does that mean?  I then said to her well then I guess you don't want to be my wife anymore since you basically said you don't love me and her response was 'I don't know'.  She still stays overnight at the house, in which that has to stop.  I asked numerous times.

Anyway expect your wife to have you in the devalued zone.  Read up on the success stories it's on the top of the forum.  It seems like the majority are successes because us as co-dependents have to let go and basically let them fail and the BPD has to go for DBT therapy.  Other than that IMO it's just a vicious circle.
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Adventurer006

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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2020, 12:10:15 AM »

Well unfortunately, at this point my wife is claiming she knows she is done now and is filing for divorce.  She doesn’t want to do counseling anymore.  This has been so difficult.   I asked her the same and she was saying that she will always love me, but doesn’t like me as a husband.  Somehow she is convinced she has always been miserable with me over 14 years.   I am so confused.  She has been ripping me to shreds for over 2 months, just saying the most hurtful stuff to me, and rejecting all my attempts at resolving things.   Seems to get worse as time goes on.   I feel like I may be painted black, or maybe in a final devaluation.  She has really burned our whole marriage to the ground.   Is there a way I can tell if it’s like a permanent final devaluation?  Do they always sleep with people when they are devaluing?     Last time she did this was 8 years ago, and then just kinda flipped back to the girl I knew after devaluing me for about 3-4 months.  This time seems worse.  I’m really afraid this is the final one and she won’t be coming back. 
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Football2000
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2020, 12:45:46 AM »

Well unfortunately, at this point my wife is claiming she knows she is done now and is filing for divorce.  She doesn’t want to do counseling anymore.  This has been so difficult.   I asked her the same and she was saying that she will always love me, but doesn’t like me as a husband.  Somehow she is convinced she has always been miserable with me over 14 years.   I am so confused.  She has been ripping me to shreds for over 2 months, just saying the most hurtful stuff to me, and rejecting all my attempts at resolving things.   Seems to get worse as time goes on.   I feel like I may be painted black, or maybe in a final devaluation.  She has really burned our whole marriage to the ground.   Is there a way I can tell if it’s like a permanent final devaluation?  Do they always sleep with people when they are devaluing?     Last time she did this was 8 years ago, and then just kinda flipped back to the girl I knew after devaluing me for about 3-4 months.  This time seems worse.  I’m really afraid this is the final one and she won’t be coming back. 

The final devaluation - that strikes a chord with me. Obviously I don't know about your marriage, but for what it's worth, I believe if you have good memories with her then at one time she shared those memories with you and was actually happy.

I am also at the stage where no matter what I try, it seems to be twisted around. If I try and validate her emotions, it just makes the outrage worse. If I try and bring up anything besides what she is talking about, it's manipulation. If I do succeed in getting somewhere, there is always something new that comes out from left field. The only thing that is working now is taking a break from talking at all.

I don't know if there is a way to tell if this is the final devaluation for you. For me, this is the most extreme one, where there is an entire narrative about how I totally messed up her entire life. As you know, couples have disagreements. Well, the weird thing is, is that a lot of the disagreements we had and resolved (at least I thought?) now have returned unresolved. For me, I have the gut feeling that it's the final devaluation for my situation.

Unfortunately I can't be more helpful, but let us cross our fingers together that our partners that we love will get better and come back.
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 02:32:10 AM »

im sorry that things have gotten to this point.

in order for us to help, in order for this to have a shot, if possible, you, and the rest of us really need to have a better understanding of what went wrong, and where.

i understand that this all feels out of nowhere for you, and incredibly hurtful.

on some level, this has likely been boiling up for her, for quite some time.

when shes letting you have it, what is she saying?
 
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Adventurer006

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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 08:31:08 AM »

im sorry that things have gotten to this point.

in order for us to help, in order for this to have a shot, if possible, you, and the rest of us really need to have a better understanding of what went wrong, and where.

i understand that this all feels out of nowhere for you, and incredibly hurtful.

on some level, this has likely been boiling up for her, for quite some time.

when shes letting you have it, what is she saying?
 



When she has been letting me have it, the topics change frequently.  We had our third child who is turning a year old.   About in the third trimester I felt like things had changed.  May have even been before the pregnancy a bit.  I was feeling similar vibes from her as I did before she had left me for 4 months (8 years ago).   Following that split we had gotten along pretty great.  We had arguments, but they seemed to be healthier and got resolved and didn’t carry on.  We got married 6 years ago, and she actually seemed even more secure after we got married and we didn’t argue much at all.  Over the past years things have been going down hill.  Some things she started saying to me were that I’m a narcissist and controlling.    The controlling issue is a big issue within her family, esp her mom.   Since I started dating her I’ve been being accused on being controlling, and frequently her mom and woman in her family would call men controlling.   To them you are basically controlling if you have anything to say about anything almost.   It’s hard to pin a reason on what caused all of this as she says so many, but here are some that have frequently come up.     I’m a narcissist (I’m more the giver in the relationship),  controlling - keep her from her family (I feel her family takes priority over me),  has always had close relationship with my mom, but is now blaming her - saying my mom treated her like garbage and I allowed it ( I thought they got a long good, there have been some misunderstandings and tiffs over the years, but I thought they resolved and I would just try to keep the peace and be neutral),  that she was miserable,  hated her life.   When I ask for examples of how I’m controlling, it’s that I kept her from her family.  She is now blaming me for choices she would make.  She would complain about them all the time, and choose to miss some interactions with them ( which were frequent).  Now she is saying she was brain washed and I manipulated her.  Even though she was on the phone with them multiple times a day, a group text message from morning till night, and texting individually.  The mother is very controlling in my opinion and wants to control the daughters lives.   Controlling is the one that comes up a lot, and she now claims she has changed, she isn’t the old her.  Claims my family and I walked on her and took advantage etc.  a lot of this started and has gotten worse as she has been at her moms the past 2 months.     None of these things were issues until the past year, and her mom was noticeably jealous of my parents relationship with our kids.  I’ve always kind of felt there was a version of my wife that I knew (vulnerable, sweet, kind) and version that they knew (confrontational, dramatic, vicious).  I always thought I knew the real her, and her family wanted her to still act like a teenager.  She says her family told her I changed her, she became quiet and meek.   She was not quiet and meek and she was still confrontational and dramatic while we were together.  I would be able to rationalize some things for her most of the time though.   Her sisters talk to, and treat their husbands like crap,  I would tolerate that, and my wife didn’t seem to be that way either.     It’s all so confusing,  it feels like a battle between her family and I.   I don’t know if they cause it, or my wife causes it though.     She tells me I won’t change, and I need to make a complete change.  When I ask what needs to change she says everything.   It feels impossible to have any type of real conversation with her about issues and resolving them.  Their are elements of truth to some things that she says, but she highly exaggerates and a lot of common issues in relationships.    Like yes I find her family annoying and think they are overbearing and controlling, but I never keep her from them, and I attend all significant events.  Most social activities we do are with them.  I feel like I’m the bad guy if I want to do something with my wife that doesn’t include them.   I don’t feel like I am terribly controlling, but do expect to be respected in the relationship.  I am not perfect, and would get frustrated with some things with her at times.  Sometimes I just felt like she didn’t care about things, like our home or belongings and things.   She is very careless with stuff and frequently broke or damaged things, and I am the one who had to pay for all these things.   When we would do things I sometimes felt like she was my teenage daughter, and she kind of just expected to be along for the ride.  I would say it sometimes, just thinking I’m letting her know how I’m feeling and to maybe participate in the work to make things happen sometimes.    I feel like when left to our own devices and her family isn’t involved in our business, her and I have great chemistry and get along great.   When her family starts chiming in on things, there is always conflict.    Again I don’t know if she gets them involved when she is unhappy though.   Her big issues that’s come up frequently seem to be the controlling things, hatred for my mom, and her changing, wanting to do what she wants, when she wants.   She tells me it’s been 2 months and she doesn’t miss anything.   Hates our house and is not coming back to it.   She been leaving the kids with me on all my days off and I believe getting dressed up and going out.   We really did not have many issues other than me being a bit type A and her being very sit back and let other people do things, which caused a bit of conflict between us.   None of it seems like reasons to split up a family to me.  I don’t feel like she is thinking about the kids at all and has become very selfish.   I feel like a lot of her attacks on me seem to be projection, as she is attacking me about a lot of things she seems to be doing.    She seems to be looking at our whole relationship as bad, going back to a fight 11 years ago with my mother when my son was born and the whole family issues started.   I am absolutely devastated to have my family fall apart and not seem to be able to do anything about.     She seems very resolute on everything at this time.

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Adventurer006

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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2020, 08:46:33 AM »

The final devaluation - that strikes a chord with me. Obviously I don't know about your marriage, but for what it's worth, I believe if you have good memories with her then at one time she shared those memories with you and was actually happy.

I am also at the stage where no matter what I try, it seems to be twisted around. If I try and validate her emotions, it just makes the outrage worse. If I try and bring up anything besides what she is talking about, it's manipulation. If I do succeed in getting somewhere, there is always something new that comes out from left field. The only thing that is working now is taking a break from talking at all.

I don't know if there is a way to tell if this is the final devaluation for you. For me, this is the most extreme one, where there is an entire narrative about how I totally messed up her entire life. As you know, couples have disagreements. Well, the weird thing is, is that a lot of the disagreements we had and resolved (at least I thought?) now have returned unresolved. For me, I have the gut feeling that it's the final devaluation for my situation.

Unfortunately I can't be more helpful, but let us cross our fingers together that our partners that we love will get better and come back.


I am sorry to hear you’re going through this as well.   Yes it sounds very similar to my situation.  Basically bringing up everything issue or argument ever.  As you said I felt they were typical arguments couples have and were moved on from.   I also relate to how this is the worst one.   My wife just seems to be completely done, but still says she doesn’t know sometimes. .   She went on a rampage and destroyed everything we had.  My counselor seems to think it’s bpd, as the abusive way she’s done everything.  She blames me for everything, even though she left. I feel like one of the hardest things is not knowing if I could ever trust her again even if she were to come back.  Also what she may be doing in the mean time before she decides to come back.  I also fear how nasty this divorce could get if it goes there.   I watch an AJ Mahari video on YT where she talked about the ultimate final discard.   This one is very very bad.  Like you said, whenever I feel like I get somewhere on an issue she was comes up with another one.   If I feel like I knocked down the wall a bit, hours to a day later she is back to raging on me.  It’s a nightmare.  I’m not sure, but I feel like a smear campaign is in as well.  I know she has smeared me with at least her family, some of our neighbors, her friends, and possibly others.     
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2020, 08:52:55 AM »

Does anyone know the impact of birth family on triggering things with bpd, or changing their behavior?  Is enmeshment common or related to bpd issues?   What is the impact of controlling mothers?   I feel like my wife has a very narcissistic, controlling mother.   I almost feel like her mother and I switched places when she left.  My is now listening to everything she says.  It’s almost like she projecting the way she feels about her mother onto me now, but she isn’t seeing that her mom is the one who gives her anxiety and won’t let her individuate and grow up. 
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2020, 10:52:54 AM »

My wife's dad is like that.  Early in the relationship (after we got married) he came after me physically. At that point I told her that with her dad's side of the family I disowned them.  They were too toxic for me.  I also encouraged her to see him even though I know he warps her mind.  I had to do that otherwise she would just resent me for it and it would give him for fuel for the fire.

Unfortunately in regards to family if they are telling her what she wants to hear or encouraging the behavior I don't know what else you could do.  I would suggest letting her know that you believe she is very intelligent and can think things through for herself.  Remember the JADE and SET along with boundaries.  I had that last night with her, I am still devalued and I pushed it when I asked her if she still loved me.  Her reply "I love you as a person" what does that means?  I don't know.  However last night I told her since she doesn't love me then she needs to leave.  She's been staying at the house every night but cold and emotionless.  My daughter told her the same, yet she still stayed and ignored us.

If she quit counseling then you know this cycle will continue.  Keep going for yourself.  I believe at some point your wife will hit rock bottom as will mine.  I know it all seems like we are living in a twilight zone episode but we need to keep care of ourselves.  I know I need to work on my co-dependency issues which I believe will help calm the situation down.  I was actually proud of myself last night in telling her to leave and really meant it.  Something like that before I would be afraid that would cause me to lose her forever.  
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2020, 11:44:27 AM »

With regard to the family, it can be really hard. There may be a strong urge for the family to shift the blame on you because it shifts it off them. I wouldn't be surprised if they get the blaming sometimes also. And they may not want to face the truth, but rather buy into a convenient story to make the current situation for them better. Or, they may be quite honest and forthright.

I think the bottom line is you can't really control what her family is saying. Just keep going...I know it can be hard. For me, although I have many activities that I can derive joy from, it feels like a small slice of the original joy because I can't share anything I like with my wife any more.
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2020, 12:08:31 PM »

Yes I think her families encouragement and validation of these beliefs may be one of my biggest issues. I believe they are fueling this devaluation, and keeping it going.    From the time she left until now she has gotten so much worse with their encouragement.  She has transformed into a totally different person.  Totally disrespectful and against me.    I know I wasn’t perfect.  I can be moody at times and particular about some things, but I didn’t see them as anywhere near divorce worthy.  Not really argument worthy for the most part.   I really appreciate the support and am glad I joined this group.  It is really great to talk with people who understand this type of situation.
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2020, 01:01:16 PM »

We are with you.. I understand where you are coming from, my wife is acting the same way.  It's almost like they are trying to justify what they are doing.  I don't know if they don't have the capacity to think about what they did wrong or what they are doing, or just too scared to think that way.

Did you wife ever mention about just surviving?  Often my wife would say she's in 'survival mode' but she would never say why.  I always thought it was because of her work which is stressful. 

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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2020, 02:03:56 PM »

[quote author=Football2000 link=topic=345366.msg13116590#msg13116590 date=1594745067
I think the bottom line is you can't really control what her family is saying. Just keep going...I know it can be hard. For me, although I have many activities that I can derive joy from, it feels like a small slice of the original joy because I can't share anything I like with my wife any more.
[/quote]


Yea that’s the tough thing is not being able to do anything about it.  To go from having arguments, resolving them and things being better, to losing her is so hard.  I am wondering if I’d be best off to just stop trying. 

I can totally relate.  I feel like I can’t really even experience joy at this point.   I still do things, but the situation is constantly on my mind.   Nothing is the same.   I really miss sharing experiences and life with wife.  It’s also so hard that she seems to be enjoying herself all the time, creating memories on vacation and out places without me.
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2020, 02:15:20 PM »

We are with you.. I understand where you are coming from, my wife is acting the same way.  It's almost like they are trying to justify what they are doing.  I don't know if they don't have the capacity to think about what they did wrong or what they are doing, or just too scared to think that way.

Did you wife ever mention about just surviving?  Often my wife would say she's in 'survival mode' but she would never say why.  I always thought it was because of her work which is stressful. 





Yes my wife is totally avoiding any responsibility for any of this.  It is all completely my fault somehow.  She says the only thing she did wrong was not speak up?   She’s painting herself to be this innocent thing.  My wife did speak up all the time,  and I deferred to her on most decisions because lord knows I’ve been accused of being controlling so much. 

She hadn’t exactly said survival mode, but I feel like she sort of eludes to that.  Leading up to the departure she would sometimes have a sort of empty look on her face.    She now believe she was talking herself into being with me.   I’m not sure what’s real and what’s not with what she says.   She says so much, and I think it is all just to hurt me.   For some reason it seems like she gets pleasure from hurting me now.  I have seen a few time now smirks and smiles on her face whenever she upsets me or hurts me.   The way she is acting is not the person I love, or the person I knew and married.    I have seen this side in the past, but not this bad.  Do devaluations escalate and/or get longer over the course of a relationship?   
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 03:04:13 AM »

Excerpt
I’m a narcissist (I’m more the giver in the relationship),  controlling - keep her from her family (I feel her family takes priority over me),  has always had close relationship with my mom, but is now blaming her - saying my mom treated her like garbage and I allowed it ( I thought they got a long good, there have been some misunderstandings and tiffs over the years, but I thought they resolved and I would just try to keep the peace and be neutral),  that she was miserable,  hated her life.   When I ask for examples of how I’m controlling, it’s that I kept her from her family.

heres the thing (rather, there are a few things)

have you heard about the fear of engulfment?

what the fear of engulfment is really about, is being the person you believe your partner wants to be, in order to be loved, and then resenting them for it. being unable to keep it up, feeling your partner doesnt really love you for you. disliking who youve become, who you are, and being angry at your partner over it.

what youre hearing, about you manipulating her, brainwashing her, is an (over the top and confusing) expression of that.

your wife is, at the end of the day, trying to find a level of independence in your relationship. shes telling you and showing you shes not the ideal person she has presented and you have fallen for. she has a lot of complicated feelings that have been boiling, and are now, suddenly, coming to the surface.

the hard question, maybe the hardest, is do you love your wife for who she is, or for who you want her to be...who she presented herself as in order to receive your love?

if you love her for who she is, then dont fight this.

the second part of this...

tension with the in-laws is a tale as old as time in marriage. sometimes its there from the start, sometimes it boils too. its clear that she can tell you arent crazy about her family. its likely that part of putting them down, in front of you, and avoiding them, was playing to the fact that she could sense that. she now resents you for that.

and thats a tough one. i was raised in a family that taught me that your spouse comes first. its rarely that simple...family dynamics are complicated, and longer in the tooth.

youre not in a position where you can do a whole lot about this...but there are two first steps to trying to reverse a breakup: stopping the bleeding (not making things worse) and understanding the problem, what broke you up.

Excerpt
Their are elements of truth to some things that she says, but she highly exaggerates and a lot of common issues in relationships.

this is loving a partner with bpd traits in a nutshell.

the real trick is honing in on those elements of truth, seeing the bigger picture, and dealing with them with good conflict resolution skills.
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2020, 07:39:34 AM »

Thank you.   That makes a lot of sense.  She does for some reason feel this great need to move out and live by herself.  She is also very adamant about not going back to our house or the life we were living.  She says things like she isn’t going back to the old her, and I wouldn’t like the new her.  She acts like she hated who she was and our life.  It’s all so confusing for me, because I truly loved her.   I didn’t expect her to be what I wanted, but would be confused if there were in inconsistencies in who I thought she was.    It seems like things just hit a such a stressful period, between a new baby, 3 kids, covid, her being laid off and then she also had a health concern which seemed to have sent her over the edge.   I want to love her for her, but the problem is I don’t know who that is right now.   Since she has left, she has been a monster.   She has been acting extremely immature, mean, and hurtful.   I’m confused as to who the real person is.

There definitely seems to be nothing I can do.  I have been eating so much crow to not make things any worse, but they just seem to get worse and worse.   She just creates things on her own, out of anything.   I try validating her feelings, and lightly try to explain my perspective on things, but I can’t seem to get anywhere.  She has talked to a lawyer and is filing at this point.  She is threatening me.    She seems as though her mind is made up and it’s over.   I have a hard time with it, because I’ve been here a few time before, and then she came back and apologized.   This is very extreme though. 

It’s just so hard because I would have done anything to try and make it work with her.  If she would have just communicated and worked on things with me this did not have to happen.    She didn’t communicate much of anything.  She just has the storylines created in her head.   She has her own version of people’s intentions, and her own version of events.  She seems to be creating how I would respond to things etc, without even attempting to have any back and forth communication.   Seems to be her way or the highway at this point.   There is so much reality to this situation that she is not thinking about at all.   I believe this is going to make her life so much harder.  I also believe this is going to make my kid’s lives so much harder.   My life is currently absolutely miserable and I can’t see ever getting over this loss of everything.  I am afraid this is going to change me forever and make me a bitter person.   She is escaping a good life, from someone who loved her and would have done anything for her.  I am a very reasonable person.  All she had to do is communicate with me.     

Is there basically nothing I can do at this point other than hope she changes her mind?

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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2020, 11:08:12 PM »

Status update:    Wife has gone to a lawyer and is set on filing, but states that she doesn’t have to go through with it?    She is still willing to do marriage counseling and we have an appointment tomorrow.   I looked over our texts over the past several months.   I realized that I missed some queues and seemed over things myself.   We didn’t seem to be speaking the same language.   Most of time we were getting a long well, but it seemed we had were having some miscommunication when trying to express needs.    My wife seemed to be withdrawing over the past year, which was making me increasing insecure.   I think I was looking for reassurance that she cared a lot, and then feeling rejected if I didn’t get the desired response.  This lead to some tension.   We were having some frequent argument where she was stating she couldn’t take much more, and I was telling her she could go.   I believe I was trying to establish some boundaries, but I really didn’t believe she would leave me, as our life was good, I loved her and took care of her, and we had 3 children.   She seemed to have taken the boundaries as maybe taking advantage? Or maybe a sign that I would leave the marriage.    I really had no intentions of leaving her, but I would state that she could leave, and acted like I wouldn’t care.   I wish I had the education of bpd that I do now, though I feel it may have been inevitable regardless.   She seems to be having some sort of episode, or change in her self.   Almost a total change in personality.  I am wondering if she is idealizing a girl that she works with, because her new style and personality seems very close to this other girls.    I seemed have gotten through to her a bit when i sent a heartfelt text about reviewing our texts and asking she did the same, to maybe see that things weren’t all bad.  I acknowledged that I was a lot to deal with when going through a recent rough patch in my career and see that she was supportive.    I don’t know if things are reversible.  She is willing to do the counseling still, but seems set on moving into her own place and filing to end our marriage.   She is so all over the place though. 
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2020, 03:37:01 AM »

this is good to see. believe me when i say that it will help, regardless of what happens.

Excerpt
She seems to be having some sort of episode, or change in her self.

it does seem as if she may be going through something. how much of that has to do with you is hard to say, and i dont want to understate it. in my life, ive seen a lot of people go through some wild changes during/after breakups. it can be part of sort of redefining yourself. ive also seen people, struggling with who they really are, go through a breakup, and suffer even further in the middle of it.

Excerpt
I seemed have gotten through to her a bit when i sent a heartfelt text about reviewing our texts and asking she did the same, to maybe see that things weren’t all bad.

how did she respond?
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2020, 10:36:17 AM »

Update:   Basically at this point I have given up.  I feel I have done everything I could and it seemed she just felt like she had me on more of a string.  She didn’t take the counseling seriously and it was just about making things my fault.   She was dangling me a string with it as well, saying she didn’t want to do it.  I told her I would change,  I tried to validate and understand all of her feelings and it didn’t seem to help anything.   I finally came to the point I felt I was just setting myself up for pain.   I snapped a bit and told her what I think about what she is doing and it.  I told I think what she did to our family is horrible and I hope it’s worth it.  I told her I don’t believe she isn’t out looking for another man and I think she’s gross.  I told her that I hope it all ends up being worth it.  I let her know I felt we had a good life, I was a good husband, the kids loved their life, were happy, and I would have done anything for her.   I hope she is happy with her decision.   I haven’t really spoke with her for about 5 days now.   I have been crying everyday.  I am just so hurt that she did this to our family.   I miss her, but at this point I don’t know her, or trust her.  I haven’t been served anything yet, and I hold out hope that she is going to realize the mistake she has made.  I just don’t know how we can come back from this though.  This has been several times now,  I don’t know how I can live with knowing this can happen at any moment again.  I want my old life back so bad that it eats me up everyday.   I pray that she realizes and comes back.  I just don’t see it happening, and I don’t know how we can fix this. 
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2020, 04:59:08 AM »

Hi Adventurer. Let me share a bit what I found out, am in a similar situation, but a few months ahead.

I hope she is happy with her decision.

Sounds like you are really hurt. As a BP, her decision may be just a reaction to an immediate emotion, even if a bit prolonged. She probably does not realise the consequences and has not thought this through practically. She may need to face the practical consequences for a while, perhaps even for several months before realising what the decision means. In saying this, I am not downplaying the seriousness of the situation - I also could not believe that my BPw would leave me and she did. It is just that her mind may change when her emotions change and she starts to feel secure with you.

I haven’t really spoke with her for about 5 days now.   I have been crying everyday.

That is good. She does not change / come to realise what is happening within hours, days or weeks. You let some steam off, process the emotion, meditate a bit, perhaps start letting go / accepting that divorce is a possible outcome and that it is not fully in your hands to avoid it (even if you do not want it).  She has the opportunity to miss you and will perhaps text / call you. You can re-start the communication by avoiding any discussion of the issues or the relationship, just being together, easy, safe and fun.

I haven’t been served anything yet, and I hold out hope that she is going to realize the mistake she has made.

Sounds familiar, I have been announced a divorce three months ago, no paper anywhere yet, she even has another man, but is now slowly returning home. Fingers crossed. 

I want my old life back so bad that it eats me up everyday.   I pray that she realizes and comes back.  I just don’t see it happening, and I don’t know how we can fix this. 

Your old life probably brought her where she is. It cannot come back, lest you be where you are in a few months again. It may make sense to check what may be the traumas / injuries (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkG0Lobd8s8 @5 min) that she suffered in the relationship and that preclude her from reconnecting to you. It is tough and takes time.

controlling - keep her from her family (I feel her family takes priority over me)

Seems to stand out in your story. It was a different thing in my case, but once I addressed the trauma as suggested in the Hold me tight book, acknowledged her pain, legitimacy of her anger, accepted responsibility for how I caused it and showed her the solution, it seems to have just disappeared.
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 04:45:13 PM »

Hi, thanks for your reply.   It definitely seems as though this is sort of an immediate reaction to an emotion and she hasn’t fully thought out all of the ramifications to our lives and kids lives.   She seems to have just fully committed and is not willing to see anything but negative in our relationship. She is also twisting and spinning everything out of context to suit her narrative.   She continues to text me, which I feel are just to get responses from me.   I have basically decided to ease off everything and am just basically giving her cold short answers when it comes to the kids.   Her other texts seem to be attempts to start fights, and I just basically don’t reply to those.    Her mom and older sister are definitely a huge part of this I feel.   They have basically tried to sabotage my relationship with her from the beginning.  I have had several encounters with them, and feel they have caused a few of our breakups.   My wife even admitted to their influence in the past.   On this current separation it almost seems like my wife is a puppet and her mom is pulling the strings.    All of her opinions, beliefs, everything have changed from being on the same page with me in life,  to being exactly like her moms, even though she claimed to despise her mom prior to all of this.   She recently told me that her and her mom hashed out their differences and got to the root of their problem.   My thought was that’s great while your marriage is crumbling, your fixing your relationship with your mom.     I believe her mom, and some other influences have just painted her life and this terrible life, and somehow my wife is buying into all of it.   Her mother and older sister are “career type” woman,  very money hungry and egotistical.   My wife claimed she wanted to be a good mom, and be with her kids, so she worked part time and I paid all of the bills.   My wife and I had always discussed our arrangements and been on the same page.  I know however that her mom does not respect or agree with that type of lifestyle for woman.  She is all about a career.       I just really can’t believe how my wife left when our baby was 9 months and was going nights without seeing her.   She couldn’t stand to be away from our other two children for even a nights, even when they were older.   She used to be so into being a mom and now is acting like a teenager or something.    I feel something happened to her with our 3rd child.  She just didn’t seem to have a connection with her,   Just seemed into losing weight and hanging out with other women all of a sudden.   She says she hated me while she was pregnant, and hated me even more after she had her.    On top of that I think her family took advantage of this situation, and used it to get rid of me.   
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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2020, 07:25:39 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.   This discussion continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=345816.0

Thank you.
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