manage the unmanageable; she's cheating, I can't leave

[EyesUp]

That is sort of a deflection but my wife says the same to me.  She is in contact with her ex-bf and renting from him.  I do find myself at times wanting to work on things with my wife and almost be 'too sweet' then at times my mind goes back to her cheating and her now in contact with her ex and the reaction to my thoughts make me miserable.

I tried to explain this to my wife, that this situation is not normal and I feel I am being betrayed however she twists what I am feeling to suit her pursuit of whatever it may be.

Would this not be a limitation/boundary you would want to set into place?  As my situation drags on longer the feeling of wanting to end the marriage gets more real.  Take a step back from all of this and look at the bigger picture.  Also do you really want to play detective your whole life?  That has to be mentally and emotionally exhausting.

Never a dull moment.

To answer you question, a quick update.

The AP's W came back with a proposal - why not bring our daughter to their house for a movie before bed time?

I just could not allow this to go without comment.

So, attempting to set boundaries, I explained my concerns and invoked significant wrath in the process.  I pushed too hard, really, but my wife admitted that she's been in touch with the AP and was 90% honest about the content, and agreed to stop communicating (although she never remembers what has been said in anger).  She said that she still feels rejected, and if all this continues she will jump from the roof or slit her wrists (I've heard this before, although not in a while).

I held my ground, and potentially enforced boundaries - minimal contact, no more plans, no more messaging about a gym. Nonetheless, she still intends to bring our daughter over for movie night.

I'll broach this with our CT in a 1:1 session, see what she has to say.

I hear you re: feeling miserable.  Hey - we're processing. To answer your question about playing detective - I literally just said to my W - the sooner we're prioritizing our relationship the sooner we will both feel better our relationship - but if the door the AP stays open, the more likely we will need to address some deception, directly or indirectly. And I don't want to go full Benson and Stabler due to paranoia - or any other reason. Not sure she heard me.

This is what could kill us, right here.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pursuingJoy]

Nonetheless, she still intends to bring our daughter over for movie night.

Since W agreed to at least reduce, if not cut off communication, any chance you can handle drop off/pick up?

I'll broach this with our CT in a 1:1 session, see what she has to say.

I think this is smart. Hey - this situation gives you really great material to talk through with the counselor with an identifiable, practical, preferred outcome. It's an opportunity to get specific, which will create discomfort for her (she seems to want to sidestep specifics when it comes to boundaries) but you can anticipate her response and be prepared.

This is what could kill us, right here.

You're working through really tough stuff. Keep investing in your emotional and physical health so you are at your best when you engage with W.

[EyesUp]

Since W agreed to at least reduce, if not cut off communication, any chance you can handle drop off/pick up?

My W intends to stay, not drop off. Our daughter is 5, now there will be other kids invited, and presumably other moms there. Objectively, it's not the worst situation, I don't want to deprive my daughter of a chance to be with friends. However my W and her AP have taken advantage of similar situations in the past, e.g., sneak a bathroom break... I think the added risk has been part of their game.

I think this is smart. Hey - this situation gives you really great material to talk through with the counselor with an identifiable, practical, preferred outcome. It's an opportunity to get specific, which will create discomfort for her (she seems to want to sidestep specifics when it comes to boundaries) but you can anticipate her response and be prepared.

You're working through really tough stuff. Keep investing in your emotional and physical health so you are at your best when you engage with W.

The truth is that she's avoided boundaries forever. She's not a reliable narrator, to herself or others. I've been wondering if current affairs <ahem> are a strong enough jolt to the system to provide a chance for intervention, or if it's the same old storm I've seen before. Given that it's been ~3 weeks since d-day, and my W still doesn't have her own T lined up, and that she's still lying about her contact, I'm not feeling great at the moment. Need to figure out how much I can trust our CT. Next session is tomorrow - Friday - before W takes our daughter to movies later that same day.

My sense is: It's probably not a good idea to use the CT session to address any of this. But I hate to keep punting, which feels like capitulating.

Thanks again.

[pursuingJoy]

My W intends to stay, not drop off. Our daughter is 5, now there will be other kids invited, and presumably other moms there. Objectively, it's not the worst situation, I don't want to deprive my daughter of a chance to be with friends. However my W and her AP have taken advantage of similar situations in the past, e.g., sneak a bathroom break... I think the added risk has been part of their game.

This doesn't give me warm fuzzies. It feels pretty squishy, laying the groundwork for more encounters like it. I know you need to pick your battles.

The truth is that she's avoided boundaries forever.

BPD is sort of boundary-less by nature. We can't wait around for them to appreciate boundaries, set them, or even respect the ones we set. What we can do is work out our own boundary muscles - identifying, setting, and reinforcing them.

She's not a reliable narrator, to herself or others.

I like how you worded this. Dealing with a situation with my H since yesterday and this describes him perfectly.

Need to figure out how much I can trust our CT.

My T offered either of us could call for a quick 15 minute check in. I was pretty direct and expressed, politely, that I was having trouble trusting her. She didn't take it personally and explained her approach. It helped quite a bit. Trust is critical.

Thinking about you this morning. Let us know how it goes.

[EyesUp]

The summary is:

The morning before the playdate, my W came home from the gym and asked me if she was kidding herself, running around in gym clothes all the time, because she still feels rejected by her AP...

I reminded her that he expressed concern about getting caught by his own W as the reason to end their affair, and that she still hasn't taken any action to communicate that I know, and that the open window is still open.  She should take the positives - a younger guy pursued her - and take action to reinforce her own best interests - rather than allowing this to linger in a way that's damaging to her (and to us).

I also picked her up and kissed her and let her know that I find her to be completely lust worthy...

But there was no way to prevent the playdate.  She originally indicated that she would be home at 7 (daughter's bed time).  She checked in at 7 to say that the movie was first starting - outdoor screen, not dark yet, etc. and "def not staying more than another hour" - I finally called her at 8:45 (should not have done it, but was going a bit crazy), and she was getting in the car.  Home at 9pm, 2 hours late.

After our daughter was asleep, I confronted her - probably too aggressively.  "so what's the story with the 5-hour playdate?"  It did not go well, she was super reactive and defensive.

After sleeping it off, I think that it boils down to the lingering emotional aspects.

I believe that she spent a majority of the time with the AP's W, watching our daughter.  She wanted to be there, to see how the AP would behave.  She hasn't been forthcoming about her feelings, but I'm sure we'll discuss at some point today.  

It is clear that there is an open window, and that's what I need to work on.

She insists that she wants to work on our relationship, and our last CT session (also yesterday, prior to the playdate) went relatively well.  After the session, my W commented that she felt the same - maybe because the stakes are higher?

It's been a month since d-day, and I realize that my W is still processing (mainly avoiding) her guilt and shame.  She will finally speak with her own T this coming week.  That should be interesting.

[EyesUp]

In the aftermath of the "playdate" my wife responded to something I'd posted on Instagram long ago.  Many pics of our travels, kids - she's never engaged before, always says she prefers FB.  But suddenly there's some engagement.

And she's posted pic of her with our dog, captioned "our 4th child".

And I can't help but notice that her ~20 followers are now close to ~40, and now include her AP.  And she's following him, too. 

I confronted her, poorly I'm sure, and received another robust defense. "Fine, I'll quite all social media" (nope, just one contact) and "it's just one random thing" (nope, not random at all).  But no agreement to go NC, or minimal contact, or to disclose that I know about the affair, or to formally, decisively end the affair.

Instead, she says "I love holding their baby".

It's much worse than I thought. Presently weighing my options.

My feeling is:  Continuing to expose our youngest daughter to this family puts our child at risk. And keeping open windows - and adding new ones - is a clear red flag about my W's (and her AP's) state of mind.

My worst instincts are to contact the AP's W, but I know that this is a scorched earth strategy where my W is concerned.

I realize I need to take care of myself, but this is exhausting and it's hard to see the endgame.

We live in MA - a no-fault state - and I don't see any way to get full custody of our kids, or keep them in our current home if I initiate a divorce - my wife would not be able to afford to keep it, based on the alimony and child support calcs I've run so far.

Trying to modulate between "in sickness and in health" and sticking out CT as long as possible, and trying all the things that help regulate and reinforce positivity - vs - honoring my own integrity, and attempting to create a safe space, at least part of the time - for myself and my kids.

I'll wrap up by saying:  Just got a text from W suggesting plans for her b-day in Oct.  Our 14-year anniversary is the same week.  It's hard to reconcile her behavior moment to moment.

[once removed]

it doesnt seem like the gravity of her actions, and all of this, have really hit her, and it doesnt seem that shes willing to make a true reckoning, take responsibility, cut the  .

and part of me isnt very surprised. you would want and hope to see more...but i still think you are in a "long game" here.

bringing back the addiction comparison, its a little bit like shes been told she has a problem, she admits theres sort of a problem, but shes not prepared to surrender to the reality of the problem, and most of her solutions are lip service, more than a serious reckoning.

it does seem like the AP being the one to end things is playing a role. shes not entirely prepared to let go of the fantasy, and its preoccupying her. 

beyond that, when an addict recovers, they address the "roots" of the addiction. i think thats a long way from happening, and i dont think shes psychologically ready. i think that she has very tentatively looked around for reasons - a lot of which blame external sources like yourself - and you have quite admirably asked "what is my role in this" without legitimatizing what is ultimately a failure of poor coping on her part - and thats what the long game really is: her coming to terms with what shes done, your coming to terms with the betrayal, and both of you being able to heal in a way that can ultimately strengthen the relationship.

none of that is to say there hasnt been progress already. its just to put progress in the context of a journey that both of you are on.

is she seeing a professional one on one?

[EyesUp]

it doesnt seem like the gravity of her actions, and all of this, have really hit her, and it doesnt seem that shes willing to make a true reckoning, take responsibility, cut the  .

and part of me isnt very surprised. you would want and hope to see more...but i still think you are in a "long game" here.

Agree 100%

bringing back the addiction comparison, its a little bit like shes been told she has a problem, she admits theres sort of a problem, but shes not prepared to surrender to the reality of the problem, and most of her solutions are lip service, more than a serious reckoning.

it does seem like the AP being the one to end things is playing a role. shes not entirely prepared to let go of the fantasy, and its preoccupying her. 

yes, again.  she is actively mourning the loss of the fantasy.

beyond that, when an addict recovers, they address the "roots" of the addiction. i think thats a long way from happening, and i dont think shes psychologically ready. i think that she has very tentatively looked around for reasons - a lot of which blame external sources like yourself - and you have quite admirably asked "what is my role in this" without legitimatizing what is ultimately a failure of poor coping on her part - and thats what the long game really is: her coming to terms with what shes done, your coming to terms with the betrayal, and both of you being able to heal in a way that can ultimately strengthen the relationship.

none of that is to say there hasnt been progress already. its just to put progress in the context of a journey that both of you are on.

is she seeing a professional one on one?

My W has agreed to reengage with the same T she previously saw for several years, prior to the pandemic.  First session is this afternoon, and she appears to be dreading it because she needs to explain what she's done and she's expecting some judgment from someone she knows. She previously reported that she didn't like this T because she was always asked "how are you going to fix this?" for all problems.  Of course it's a tough question, maybe the worst question, for someone who is avoidant of responsibility, accountability, and self-actualization - and who generally lacks empathy.   It's always been hard for my W to envision how she can fix things when it's usually someone else's fault (usually mine) - so I am also apprehensive about reengaging the same old T.

I tried to help her find new resources, actually identified available Ts that accept our insurance - but her follow up was half hearted at best.  She found her own private pay option and then blamed me for declining to cover it - we are already stretched thin, she is well aware - so this seemed like just another way to avoid/deflect/blame shift.

If anyone here knows an appropriate T in MA that accepts Tufts for insurance, I'd love a referral.  Must be a female T for my W.

Thanks for the comments, as always.

[EyesUp]

CT update...

I discussed my concerns about ongoing exposure / engagement with her AP and APW prior to CT.  W's response was "you're pushing me back to him" with anger, but she asked me to go ahead and raise the issue in our CT session today.

I laid out the issues:
W and AP broke it based on spousal pressure (apparently AP reported that his W was reviewing phone and CC activity super closely), not based on discovery or a direct statement to end the affair.

Subsequently my W lied about contact - there have been some facebook messages, and lied about making playdates for our kids, and she sees the AP and/or AP's W at pickup/dropoff for our daughter almost every day.

My ask:  Send a definitive statement to the AP that it's 100% over, I know about the affair, and go minimum contact going forward.

W rejects this.  CT states to me:  You need to decide if you want to face the consequences of forcing your W to do something she doesn't want to do.

Awesome.

What about the consequences to my W for forcing me to live with conditions I don't want to accept?

[pursuingJoy]

I was hopeful that your wife was willing to go back to therapy and crossing my fingers that it would go well.

CT states to me:  You need to decide if you want to face the consequences of forcing your W to do something she doesn't want to do.

Pretty sure I would have been equally frustrated at the timing of this statement. This counselor is familiar with your wife. The approach she usually took was to ask how she'd take responsibility or fix it, right? Is your wife typically pretty unwilling to take responsibility, or is this a new development?

What I'm taking away is that you're making an ask and wife is refusing. Is your hope that you will convince her by asking her repeatedly?

What about the consequences to my W for forcing me to live with conditions I don't want to accept?

Fair question EyesUp.

[EyesUp]

I was hopeful that your wife was willing to go back to therapy and crossing my fingers that it would go well.

Pretty sure I would have been equally frustrated at the timing of this statement. This counselor is familiar with your wife. The approach she usually took was to ask how she'd take responsibility or fix it, right? Is your wife typically pretty unwilling to take responsibility, or is this a new development?

Thanks so much for following along - it means a lot.  I'm referring to our CT, we've had 4 sessions.  You're thinking of a different reference to my W's individual T, who has asked "how are you going to fix this?" in the past.

The CT acknowledged my "ask" as fair, but took a very balanced position. 

We have not scheduled 1:1 sessions with the CT - actually my W has avoided it.  My W has also suggested that the CT is on my side, but came away from yesterday's call feeling differently.

What I'm taking away is that you're making an ask and wife is refusing. Is your hope that you will convince her by asking her repeatedly?

Fair question EyesUp.

I clearly see that asking repeatedly is not working - just the opposite.

Interesting discussion with my W at the end of the day yesterday - We picked up our D5 at kindergarten together yesterday and briefly spoke with the AP's W.  Later in the evening, my W noted that AP's W is standoffish.  "Maybe she knows, or suspects, but that's the way she always behaves".  Me: "What's it like to hang out with her for 5 hours? (reference to playdate)".  W: "She's different when she drinks a bit" and then "completely different from her H (AP), who is much more extroverted and can talk to anyone."  Me: "I feel badly for her."  W: "I don't."

After a beat or two, W continued "I mean, I did feel bad at the time, but I'm not doing it anymore.  I guess I'd feel bad for her if AP is with someone new."

Just wow.

I realized how deeply in denial my W is at this point. She has completely compartmentalized her guilt. Her comments seemed open, unguarded - which gives me some sense that the physical stuff is over, the emotional stuff continues, and we are a long, long way off from meaningful recovery.

Of course my wife is hosting a mom's night on Friday and AP's W plans to join.

I think the CT has spotted my W's aversion and probably made a good call in yesterday's session - in the interest of keeping the discussion moving.

However there's a line between enablement / unintentional endorsement vs. constructively guiding the discussion in a productive direction.

Everything I've read here and elsewhere says to give it at least 90 days.  So, 60 days to go.

For the past month, I've generally been pursuing some type of recovery/reconciliation.  In sickness and health, etc.  Today, I'm wondering if it's possible.

I know I need to take care of myself - each path is long and hard and uncertain.  However it's feeling less possible to trust someone who cannot - or generally does not - take responsibility.

I feel I need to prepare for the massive blame shift that will eventually come for everything that has ever gone wrong in our relationship.  I'm mainly thinking of our kids...

[once removed]

W rejects this.  CT states to me:  You need to decide if you want to face the consequences of forcing your W to do something she doesn't want to do.

What about the consequences to my W for forcing me to live with conditions I don't want to accept?

these are what they call "cold, hard truths". cold, and clinical. but at the same time, undeniable.

W's response was "you're pushing me back to him"
...
I clearly see that asking repeatedly is not working - just the opposite.

I realized how deeply in denial my W is at this point. She has completely compartmentalized her guilt.

your wife is not prepared for accountability, or for taking responsible steps, or for emotionally ending the affair. shes saying that loudly, and clearly.

if you push, any number of things may happen.

more than likely, she will resent you. possibly, it may push her toward him. possibly, it may work, in the short term, and then what happens is anyones guess. maybe she looks for another outlet. maybe she reinvests in your marriage. maybe she does one and then the other.

my point is not to take your wifes side here...your position, your feelings, are not wrong or invalid. the point is that dealing with this involves radical acceptance - cold, hard truths. and you have to make decisions based on those things, and be prepared to live with them.

my sense is, for sure, that shes going to need more time. there is, unfortunately, no guarantee that time will do the trick.

For the past month, I've generally been pursuing some type of recovery/reconciliation.  In sickness and health, etc.  Today, I'm wondering if it's possible.

I know I need to take care of myself - each path is long and hard and uncertain.  However it's feeling less possible to trust someone who cannot - or generally does not - take responsibility.

this is another cold, hard truth.

it is critical to go into this process, not only with eyes wide open, but in a way that acknowledges and lives your values, and your limits.

my sense is that you continue to have a good grip on this. you are not in a situation with great options, or you wouldnt be here. youre in a situation where its critical to understand "what it takes", and weigh, consistently, not only whether "what it takes" will pay dividends, but whether it is possible on a personal level, for you, or for her.

obviously, i wouldnt decide today - i dont think you would either - but i would continue to weigh all aspects of this.

your counselor is walking this fine line of not taking sides. she knows what it takes. she knows you and your wifes limits, and limitations. and she knows who is emotionally prepared to hear what.

[pursuingJoy]

However there's a line between enablement / unintentional endorsement vs. constructively guiding the discussion in a productive direction.

I've been here with a counselor and I want to validate that it's a pretty frustrating place. I felt so disappointed. I'd hoped they'd use their power to influence, and instead, they almost seemed to pander to my H, peppering a random difficult question here and there. It never seemed enough.

What once removed said is, I think, accurate. The CT is wise to only work with the material being offered. This way, any movement will be lasting because it's authentically owned by you and W.

People that feel defensive are far less likely to listen. Sounds like the CT took an intentional step to lower your W's defenses momentarily with the goal to keep W coming back and maybe even trust CT.

Our CT saw what was happening, but said her role was not to take sides but to facilitate a conversation and try to get H to hear me. At one point she kindly said, "Sure, I could tell him what I think. But what good would that do? He would then be upset with me and feel like you and I were on the same side. And he still wouldn't be able to hear you." I had to ask myself if I just wanted validation, in front of H, that I was right, or did I want lasting change with H?

Whether you talk to your CT 1:1 or not, I'm hoping my experience can shed some light and give you some confidence in what the CT is doing.

We're here. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I admire your level-headedness and pragmatism. Your wife is fortunate to be working through this with someone like you. I hope you find a safe space to fall apart sometimes. You're carrying a heavy load. 

[EyesUp]

@once removed
@pursuingjoy

Thanks again.

Perhaps it's 4 weeks in, or maybe it's 9/11.  Today I'm angry.

I'm thinking about the various ways my W has tried to gain power rather than establish a healthier relationship over the years.  Gaslighting, devaluing, etc.

My MO has generally been to stay above the fray and not engage, although I now see the limitations of this approach as a long term strategy!

She's finally drawn blood, and perhaps feels like she has some power.

I understand that affair has happened - out of my control, no going back.

However I'm not sure that I'm willing or able to let it stand.  It's not my intention to see her suffer, but some level of awareness seems... necessary.  Starting to feel like I'm kidding myself - this might not be possible.  I'm reading up on phases of recovery, and I know I'm just getting started. 

Different communities process this in different ways.  Strong positions re: cut and run ASAP, burn it down, vs. taking a long view, vs. possible reconciliation.

In my case, where my W is actively singing the AP's praises and far from showing true remorse, it seems unlikely that her POV will change on its own.  It must be informed by some new information or other stimulus.  Maybe she's holding on for a sign from him (hence all the ongoing exposure), or maybe she's avoiding reality (still holding on to the fantasy).  My instinct is to avoid the fray, not to stoop to her level, not to engage where I am impartial (and therefore subject to scrutiny) - and yet most of my W's inputs are coming from her enablers - in particular, one friend who did not discourage the affair (never married, multiple side relationships with longterm partner, the father of her 2 kids), and possibly the therapist.

e.g., W says that her T told her to share the things that the AP said that made her feel good. 

It's all player talk - "you've got a great body" - things I have most certainly affirmed to my wife time and time again, although perhaps not as much as I should have in recent months. 

The point is:  Somehow the assumption is that I should boost my W at this time. OK, I get the need to insert positivity and try to limit negativity - don't be invalidating, etc.

But the message didn't come over as "here are things I'd like to hear" - it came as "here are things the AP said that you never say" - a false narrative, wrapped in contest that I'd prefer to avoid.

I guess patience is the answer for the moment, as I've been unsuccessful with boundaries thus far.

[EyesUp]

It turns out that my patience has a limit.

Without any intention of confronting my wife today, a number of key points came forward.

It started when speaking about one of the few people who know about the affair - a recent friend who I am certain is an enabler.

I pointed out that 6-months ago this "friend" was an acquaintance we considered to be an idiot, and now she knows the most intimate details of our relationship.  After d-day, she came over and I said "thanks for being a good friend to my wife" - which was then reported back to me as interpreted as a power play.  I reminded my wife that we need to put each other first, and that the power play dynamic is not cool...

I also suggested that there is only one position for a true friend when dealing with infidelity:  don't do it, don't support.  I am certain that this "friend" was "go for it! have a good time!"

The situation escalated and I made my position known:

Relationship issues prior to the affair are 50/50, and I am 100% committed to addressing whatever I can change in myself to improve our future together. 

But the affair is 100% on my W.

She exploded.

Left the house screaming "you win!" and slamming doors.

Our two older daughters were horrified, asked if we're getting a divorce.  I hugged them and explained that we're having a hard time.  Both have seen counselors in the past, I told them that we are also seeing counselors and working on some difficult things that can be very upsetting, but that we love them, and love each other and mom will be home...

While the W was out, we had a txt exchange that included some threats of self harm.  I'm not sure if this constitutes emotional abuse to me or a legitimate threat.

W is now home.  I'm debating how to handle the "I really don’t want to keep living if this is how it is going to be" statement.

Of course she completely ignores any and all affirming statements.

Commence weekend operations!

[EyesUp]

One week follow up.

Last weekend was rough.  My W's AP's W was at our house for a mom's wine night last Friday, and then we saw her at our D5's kindergarten pickup on Tues.  I've tried to gently raise concerns about continuing exposure, setting limits, boundaries, etc. without much success.  

After Tues I mentioned that I feel badly for the AP's W.  My W snapped back "I don't" and then after a pause, added "well, actually I feel bad for her because he's (W's AP) is probably f*cking someone else now."

I was stunned by the compartmentalization.

Then, we had CT on Weds - and my W had a near total meltdown, and threatened self harm. My W, would not come back to the table (telehealth CT session), screamed "you're all against me" and collapsed on the bathroom floor sobbing.  Our kids were home for remote school, saw the police enter the house and mom leave in an ambulance. The CT called 911 and my W was taken to the hospital under Section 12.  

She was eventually released at the end of the day on Weds.

W will no longer speak with the CT, my feeling is that we're in crisis.  

She won't leave the house because she knows it's a bad idea legally (for her) - and we are at an impasse re: putting together an affair recovery plan.

Then yesterday, I learned that her AP is the coach of D5's soccer team. I'm not sure if W knew this all along or not - I would not be surprised if she lied about this. Of course I put my foot down and now we need to pull our kid from soccer with all her friends. 1st session is tomorrow, and I've been cast as selfish for compromising our daughter's activities and development.

This all feels like it's heading toward additional blowups with kids in the crossfire. W has not sent a NC letter to the AP. I sense that one of the major underlying contributing factors to the affair was her perceived need to gain power - in our relationship, or in general - and now all of the things that she needs to do to try to address the affair are causing tremendous stress and conflict - for her. Both of us, really. It's the resistance to criticism thing. Even more potent when the criticism is real!

I am shaking with anger and fear.

[once removed]

this could all go one of a number of ways, and its truly not clear, at this point which path its headed. i also dont think that any of them are going to happen on a timeline that you would prefer.

sometimes (usually) it gets worse before it gets better. sometimes, it only get worse. what youre experiencing is not out of the ordinary, but it is troubling, obviously for you personally, but from an outsiders perspective as well.

and now all of the things that she needs to do to try to address the affair are causing tremendous stress and conflict - for her. Both of us, really. It's the resistance to criticism thing. Even more potent when the criticism is real!

this is a very good read on whats happening.

shes in full blown denial, and threats of self harm and ending couples therapy are clear indications of emotional fragility.

you can push, where reasonable and prudent. it may ultimately help, and it may ultimately mean the end of your marriage.

you can let it go entirely, let her sort of "go on her journey", and it may ultimately help, and it may ultimately mean the end of your marriage.

you can follow a middle of the road approach, do some of both, choose what hills you are prepared to die on or go to the mat for.

i would strongly encourage continuing to work with a professional on your own. it sets an example, number one. number two, you need an outlet (we can be that too) for the really complex things you are going through, some of which may still be ahead. you have resentment now, you may have greater resentment later, its possible that if she saw the light and fully repented tomorrow, that you might have even greater resentment. there is hurt, there is betrayal, and there is the frustration of living with someone that cannot see the damage she has done and continues to do.

its a seriously tall order to be able to process all of that, and to be mindful and strategic in the process. youre doing it better than anyone ive ever seen. i only wish that there were better options in the short term.

[EyesUp]

@once removed.

Thanks again.  I had a debrief session with the CT, who mentioned that she has never seen anyone react like my wife did last week.  The CT actually said that we should not pursue a new couples program until my wife has made progress with her own issues. 

Yes, I am actively working with a professional for myself.  Not sure 1 hour per week comes close to what I could use.  

My therapist thinks my wife may have PTSD from multiple unresolved traumas, which manifests as BPD-ish behaviors.  She's advocated an intensive treatment program, and there are some excellent options near us - the trick would be getting my wife to voluntarily enter such a program.

In the meantime, I feel like I have a knife stuck in my chest.  

My wife is in full-blown denial mode and doing anything possible to look forward and avoid talking about what's happened.

Starting to speak with lawyers just to get a sense of options.  I'm pretty sure that if I served my wife papers, she might have a breakdown that could lead to another Section 12.  I hate to think of this approach as a force function, but I don't think I can live with the status quo.

[EyesUp]

Any chance someone has a recommendation for an atty in MA / Middlesex County?

Too much to describe, but suffice to say that we are not heading in a good direction and I need to become much more proactive to protect myself and my kids.

Any advice or referrals re: divorce resources for men in my area would be greatly appreciated.

[once removed]

it would be good to post on the Family Law board for resources in your area.

im sorry its come to this, EyesUp