Borderline rage targeting the children

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My wife is increasingly having a hard time with our kids at home 24/7 and for the first time ever seems to be losing her ability to modulate her behavior toward them. She's a good Mom. And previously I was the only target of her borderline rage (as well as her parents when they visit), but lately she has been screaming at the kids when they don't listen, telling them to "shut up" and cursing at them. Today she has been yelling and screaming at them for a good part of the morning and threatened them that if they didn't behave she'd leave and never come back.

Unfortunately I didn't handle this latest episode well at all. I've got to the point where I can mostly not take the bait and just walk away when my wife gets all worked up, but I found it really upsetting to see the white hot rage directed at my 5 and 2 year old kids. When she started screaming and cursing at my two year old daughter today I told her she needed to take a walk and only come back when she was calm. When she refused and started escalating, I asked her how she expected the kids to behave when she set this kind of example in front of them. Bad move of course.

I should mention that I understand everybody loses it with their kids at times and this is part of life as a parent. I also get it that she's under additional stress because of the long lockdown and the schools not having reopened yet. The daycare center that my daughter was supposed to go to only just reopened, and my wife is extremely anxious about sending her due to COVID.

Having said all this, no matter how frustrated I am I know there are certain things I will never say or do to my kids -- and it really disturbs me that my wife seems incapable of maintaining any such boundaries. I suspect trying to have a conversation about this would be futile. But welcome any ideas on how to handle. Clearly I could have done better in the moment today.

[globalnomad]

My wife is increasingly having a hard time with our kids at home 24/7 and for the first time ever seems to be losing her ability to modulate her behavior toward them. She's a good Mom. And previously I was the only target of her borderline rage (as well as her parents when they visit), but lately she has been screaming at the kids when they don't listen, telling them to "shut up" and cursing at them. Today she has been yelling and screaming at them for a good part of the morning and threatened them that if they didn't behave she'd leave and never come back.

Unfortunately I didn't handle this latest episode well at all. I've got to the point where I can mostly not take the bait and just walk away when my wife gets all worked up, but I found it really upsetting to see the white hot rage directed at my 5 and 2 year old kids. When she started screaming and cursing at my two year old daughter today I told her she needed to take a walk and only come back when she was calm. When she refused and started escalating, I asked her how she expected the kids to behave when she set this kind of example in front of them. Bad move of course.

I should mention that I understand everybody loses it with their kids at times and this is part of life as a parent. I also get it that she's under additional stress because of the long lockdown and the schools not having reopened yet. The daycare center that my daughter was supposed to go to only just reopened, and my wife is extremely anxious about sending her due to COVID.

Having said all this, no matter how frustrated I am I know there are certain things I will never say or do to my kids -- and it really disturbs me that my wife seems incapable of maintaining any such boundaries. I suspect trying to have a conversation about this would be futile. But welcome any ideas on how to handle. Clearly I could have done better in the moment today.

[Blueskyday]

Hi,
It is incredibly hard to hold it together when you see children being treated this way.

My daughter is screaming at my 9yr old Grandchild.
She has banged her own head against a wall in front of the child. She snaps at her and tells her she cant cope with her.
She is such a good kid.

Conversing will do no good here. It will trigger shame in her and another BPD rage possibly.

The one thing I do know is that it's a slipperly slope. You must have a zero tolerance towards ths treatment of the children.

Dont be too hard on yourself

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with Blueskyday. Hard boundary here.

Take the kids and walk away. Stay away for at least a half hour, enough for her amygdala to calm down.

When she’s in that agitated state, talking to her is counterproductive. Save that conversation for when she’s calm and receptive.

[Goosey]

I calmly told my wife that I would have to call the police if things escalate into a violent rage. And I did when it happened  They handled it professionally and that was a boundary she never forgot or forgave me for making.
It was the beginning of the end of the marriage but I realized I couldn’t control the situation and had to make that boundary.
Enough is enough. And young young children. My god. I can’t imagine. Hoping the best for you

[globalnomad]

Blueskyday and Cat: Thanks both. The zero tolerance approach makes sense, although is not always easy to implement in practice. When my wife becomes dysregulated it tends to make both of our kids anxious, and when they are anxious they get clingy and want their mom even more (even though she is the source of the drama). So trying to remove the kids from the situation in the heat of the moment is really hard. That said, today I waited 15 mins for things to cool down slightly and then took the kids out for three hours. I had to take the afternoon off work (luckily I have a flexible boss).

Goosey - Thanks for your thoughts. Yes this whole dynamic is really hard to manage with young kids in the picture. She has never become violent toward them, and if she ever did it would be game over as far as I'm concerned. I've come close to calling the police a couple of times when she was violent toward me. If I did, I suspect the result would be similar to yours.

[RestlessWanderer]

Global Nomad,
I’m so sorry to hear about that situation. I don’t know what I would do. All I can say is that can’t happen again. That’s a line that can’t be crossed again.
Learning, practicing and using the tools available here can help us over time. But from what I can see, these tools are limited to helping us as the behaviors of the pwBPD are only in their control. And if that person cannot control how they behave with their own kids, then maybe you start focusing and planning on how to protect them. Perhaps scouring the forums here will uncover some helpful insight and advice. 
It might be a good idea to record audio of her if it does happen again.
I wish you well.

[globalnomad]

Thanks RestlessWanderer. That makes a lot of sense and I'm trying to do some more research. I did actually make an audio recording of part of the outburst yesterday, just in case. I think my biggest lesson for now is that next time my wife is starting to head for the red zone (there are usually signs in advance) and losing patience with the kids I need to get them out of there before things escalate. If she's left alone to cool down things are usually better when I return.

[RestlessWanderer]

That’s really good thinking. See it coming and act swiftly. Hopefully it won’t take long to calm down and taking the kids won’t escalate things. I guess as long as you’re somewhere safe she can’t do much even if she escalates.
RW

[globalnomad]

An update. Things were somewhat calm for a couple of days and exploded again today. This morning -- as I do most mornings -- I got up about 6:30 with the two kids and made breakfast for them. My wife stayed in bed until 8am. When she came out there were a few toys on the floor and she started berating me for allowing the kids to make such a mess. I said sorry, I've been busy getting the kids breakfast and so on, but it won't take long to clean up. She then started ranting about how I'm always making excuses and how it's so outrageous she has to wake up to the house being in a mess.

I must have unconsciously made a face at this point, which caused her to start yelling at me more. I decided she needed to cool down and took the kids out for an hour (causing me to start work late - again).

When I came back things were fine for a couple of hours. I was working in the spare bedroom which doubles as my office. But before long I heard her screaming at the children again. The yelling and screaming went on and on. I came out, said it's sure frustrating when the kids don't listen -- why don't you take a walk and let me watch the kids for a while? This got her even more riled up. Eventually I suggested that perhaps there was a better way to get results when the kids weren't listening. The answer to this was "F*** you - this is how my parents raised me and I can raise my kids however I want." Things got worse from there.

I am at a total loss as to how to deal with this. I think it's a genuine concern that she looses her cool with our kids so easily. But I can't raise the issue, even if I try to do it with empathy. It quickly becomes "if you don't like the way I parent then leave."

The backdrop to all this is that she is way overstimulated from looking after the two kids while I work on weekdays. My son was supposed to start kindergarden this month, but school will be only open 2 days a week in NY. And she's not willing to send our daughter to daycare. So short of quitting my job to look after the kids (not an option) I just don't know what to do.

Sorry for an aimless post. Perhaps I just needed to vent.

[formflier]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=311440.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

Hey...can you read about JADE and then read your post and think about how things were handled when she woke up to toys being scattered around.

From the perspective of JADE, I'd be curious how you might advise yourself to handle things differently.

Best,

FF

[Diddle]

Globalnomad - Just reading your first post in this thread, made me so cross for you. Throughout my marriage, my biggest worry has been the children being on the receiving end.

This is a tough one. Children should be able to rely on their parents and trust that what they are saying is true and honest. But with BPD that parent is often accusing the child of doing something they haven't, or blowing up a tiny issue to become a big one.

I have 3 children, 11, 12 & 14 and they have no respect for their dad now, because he hasn't lead by example, and spoken to them respectfully or made them feel safe. Their lack of respect is a big trigger for him (sarcasm and eye rolling is like its own language for pre-teens  ) he can't see that they are speaking how they're spoken to. They wouldn't dream of speaking to me that way.

I am very conscious that in their younger years I just pacified my husband and damage controlled any rage by doing everything my husband wanted. As the children got older, one of them actually told me that all I do is stick up for dad, even when he's wrong.
This made me see that I needed to show my Husband that there were limits to the bad behaviour I was willing to put up with. As I would if one of my children behaved that way.

Which in turn shows the children what is acceptable and what isn't. I think in this case, you need to lead by example. Remove them from the situation if possible, maybe explain that mommy needs some time to calm down, like we all do sometimes. But whilst in front of your wife, I would calmly and clearly remind her that she would get a better response by talking calmly to the children and if appropriate say if she is wrong to her.
Because BPD is a vicious cycle, and nothing you say in that moment will be right. But you don't want your children growing up behaving the same.

I would imagine they feel emotionally anxious around her, in a similar way that we do. We want our partners to be calm and happy, so we try to pacify them by keeping things calm, and making up for any supposed wrong doings. It sounds like the children are doing the same.

I hope today has been calmer for you all

[globalnomad]

Formflier - Thanks for the links and refresher on JADE-ing. It's a good reminder. I've got better at avoiding the traps over the years, but in the heat of the moment I often instinctively start defending myself. The difficulty I have is that the alternative to JADE-ing -- some kind of validation -- often doesn't seem to work well. If I say something like "I can see how it'd be frustrating to wake up to all these toys everywhere" it tends to come across as insincere or "something your therapist probably told you to say" in moments like this. I think sometimes just not saying something invalidating seems the best I can do. And it does help.

 Diddle - Thanks for the message and I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with the same kind of issues with your husband and three children. Thankfully today has been a calmer day for me. You're right that leading by example is really important. Pacifying doesn't help and I have a duty to protect the children.

[RestlessWanderer]

Global Nomad, yet again I know exactly what you mean. I could have written this post myself.
In theory, all of this makes sense. But dealing with someone who operates so illogically makes communication and progress feel so impossible.
I suppose the efficacy of the tools is also conditional on where pwBPD falls on the spectrum. I read other people’s stories and it seems that they have success because the person in their life will listen when things are calm.
I feel like all I can do is follow my wife’s lead. If she wants to talk, she will say what’s on her mind. If I try to talk, then I’ll likely trigger her, or she will simply take the opposite position. Maybe I’ve already given her too much power by acquiescing for so long.
If you figure all this out, let me know.