Help I don't know what to do

[formflier]

 

What does "blocking her" mean?  (so asking technically...blocked on what, can she tell she is blocked, can others..etc etc)

Also asking what it means for the relationship?

If she can tell she is blocked, then what do you want her to understand when she realizes this (if she can realize it)

Switching gears.

How do you feel?

Best,

FF

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WorriedHusband]

What does "blocking her" mean?  (so asking technically...blocked on what, can she tell she is blocked, can others..etc etc)

Also asking what it means for the relationship?

If she can tell she is blocked, then what do you want her to understand when she realizes this (if she can realize it)

Switching gears.

How do you feel?

Best,

FF

I blocked her phone so she can’t call or text me anymore. She must have realized it when her messages no longer showed up as delivered because she then started emailing me cussing at me and going crazy with her accusations. 

I was really hoping that maybe some time away had allowed her to reflect and change. I was wrong. She is toxic to me.  I will never be able to reason with her and if I go back to her I will live a life of misery.  As much as I love her I have to let her go.  If I’m strong enough I have stay no contact. 

[formflier]

OK...what do you intend or expect her to feel when she realized that she was blocked?

Are you surprised that she reach out with some lovely language via email?

Best,

FF

[WorriedHusband]

OK...what do you intend or expect her to feel when she realized that she was blocked?

Are you surprised that she reach out with some lovely language via email?

Best,

FF

I expected her to be angry at me for blocking her.  I have never really done that before. She is the one that left me, blocked me, and didn’t communicate with me at all then she divorced me without communicating.  She reached out to me 10 days after the divorce. I don’t understand that. 

She also has been going back and forth, hot and cold, loving and hating. She has blocked me so many times.  It’s a control thing with her I suppose. 

I really thought that maybe there was a chance that she had realized her part in all of this, but I was wrong.  She will never take any responsibility for anything. I would like to hear her apologize and take responsibility, but she can’t do it. 

She has emailed me twice today.  Today she is back to loving me.  I just can’t reply to her.  I love her and I worry about her, but I can’t deal with the back and forth, loving and hating anymore.  I don’t even see anything triggering her.  Like yesterday we were all set to meet today. She called me and within two minutes she flew into a rage. I hadn’t even said 3 sentences.   

She has never been this bad before. In the past she never had such high and swift emotion changes.  She could always have some mood swings, but nothing like this.  Since we started communicating again since the divorce she seems to have really exacerbated her BPD.  Do people with BPD spiral down this severely?  I have never before  witnessed  such intense
mood swings.  Can anyone educate me on what’s going on with her?  I love her and am worried about her, but at the same time I have to look out for my own well being.  This is hard on me

[formflier]

I expected her to be angry at me for blocking her.  

Yep...good insight/ability to look at yourself/your part.

And nope..it won't matter (in their mind) that they have blocked you a gazillion times...  Yes, seems hypocritical...it is hypocritical, but no to them.

  Since we started communicating again since the divorce she seems to have really exacerbated her BPD. 

There is intense "fear of abandonment" coupled with an apparent desire to do things to people before it is done to them. 

So..."i'll abandon you before you can abandon me".  Then...they still have feelings of abandonment because you are in fact...gone.

Yeah...takes a while to wrap your head around that...good luck.

Do people with BPD spiral down this severely?

Yes and the quick/inexplicable mood swings.  No shock here.  "Let's me for coffee..."  (poof)  "you are the devil"

  I have never before  witnessed  such intense
mood swings.  Can anyone educate me on what’s going on with her?

I can generally say these are classic "BPDish" behaviors.  Very different than diagnosing her.

She is likely have very intense emotions about the end of her marriage and what you are seeing is the fallout of how she "deals with those emotions."

Best,

FF

  I love her and am worried about her, but at the same time I have to look out for my own well being.  This is hard on me

[WorriedHusband]

Yep...good insight/ability to look at yourself/your part.

And nope..it won't matter (in their mind) that they have blocked you a gazillion times...  Yes, seems hypocritical...it is hypocritical, but no to them.


There is intense "fear of abandonment" coupled with an apparent desire to do things to people before it is done to them. 

So..."i'll abandon you before you can abandon me".  Then...they still have feelings of abandonment because you are in fact...gone.

Yeah...takes a while to wrap your head around that...good luck.


Yes and the quick/inexplicable mood swings.  No shock here.  "Let's me for coffee..."  (poof)  "you are the devil"



I can generally say these are classic "BPDish" behaviors.  Very different than diagnosing her.

She is likely have very intense emotions about the end of her marriage and what you are seeing is the fallout of how she "deals with those emotions."

Best,

FF

I would have never left her and I have went out of my way to express that to her. For her to just up and leave the way she did makes no sense and I never would have thought she would do that. From the time she left and until after the divorce she blocked me for 2.5 mths.  Did she not regret her decision until then? Does she regret it now? 

I don’t understand why she keeps doing this to me.  She gets my hopes up then she crushes them.  Does she want me back/love me or does she hate me?   

I keep thinking that if only we could see each other in person things could be resolved. I don’t think that way now.  I think there is never going to be us going back to how it was before. 

What

[formflier]

  Does she want me back/love me or does she hate me?   

Yes...she does.

Yep...they are likely both true, and as you saw they can both be true in just a matter of minutes.

You know how hard this is for you, imagine for a minute or two what it's like to have these kind of things racing around in your head/heart.

Best,

FF

[WorriedHusband]

Yes...she does.

Yep...they are likely both true, and as you saw they can both be true in just a matter of minutes.

You know how hard this is for you, imagine for a minute or two what it's like to have these kind of things racing around in your head/heart.

Best,

FF

I thought about what you said.  I do love her so much. It hurts knowing the mental anguish she is experiencing.  I reached out to her today.  We are going to try to meet up tomorrow.  I am going into this with my eyes wide open and I am not getting my hopes up.  There is a lot of issues that would need addressed, but at first we just want to have a simple get together

[babyducks]

Hello WorriedHusband

I would have never left her and I have went out of my way to express that to her. For her to just up and leave the way she did makes no sense and I never would have thought she would do that. From the time she left and until after the divorce she blocked me for 2.5 mths.  Did she not regret her decision until then? Does she regret it now? 

a couple of thought on what you wrote in this thread.

First BPD is a serious mental illness.   It is not 'just a matter of thinking wrong' or being confused.   It is a serious mental illness.

So, No you and her do NOT process the events of life, or the emotions of life in the same way.    You do not ~see~ things the same way.   You do not feel things the same way.    Does she regret what she did ?   Or not?   people with BPD believe that the emotions of the moment are totally accurate and will last forever.  pwBPD see their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions.   pwBPD believe that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.     the highly unstable approach to relationships is a symptom of the illness.

She has never been this bad before. In the past she never had such high and swift emotion changes.  She could always have some mood swings, but nothing like this.  Since we started communicating again since the divorce she seems to have really exacerbated her BPD.  Do people with BPD spiral down this severely?  I have never before  witnessed  such intense mood swings.  Can anyone educate me on what’s going on with her? 

BPD is often comorbid (co-exists) with other mental illnesses.   To use a real life example, my Ex is Bipolar 1 comorbid BPD.   Her mood could swing violently in the matter of minutes.    There is a theory in Bipolar called the Kindling effect.   Its complicated but in a very simple way it suggests that stressful events lower the threshold where mood changes occur.   Basically, each mood swing makes later episodes more likely and more severe.   

pwBPD can and do become psychotic.    My Ex did.   In one episode she believed that the wind would send her car in the direction it needed to go and she would "drive" without her hands on the steering wheel.   She eventually recovered from that episode but in the middle of it she was convinced that her car was steered by wind power.

I reached out to her today.  We are going to try to meet up tomorrow.  I am going into this with my eyes wide open and I am not getting my hopes up.  There is a lot of issues that would need addressed, but at first we just want to have a simple get together

I would encourage you to not add any volatility to an already volatile situation.   I know this is difficult.    the intense push pull your relationship is going through is bad for both of you.    please think about how to keep things Simple.    And Short.   do not add any intensity to an already intense situation.    consider how to allow the heightened emotions to return to baseline.   be aware that you will return to emotional baseline (a calm steady state)  before she does.

'ducks

[WorriedHusband]

Hello WorriedHusband

a couple of thought on what you wrote in this thread.

First BPD is a serious mental illness.   It is not 'just a matter of thinking wrong' or being confused.   It is a serious mental illness.

So, No you and her do NOT process the events of life, or the emotions of life in the same way.    You do not ~see~ things the same way.   You do not feel things the same way.    Does she regret what she did ?   Or not?   people with BPD believe that the emotions of the moment are totally accurate and will last forever.  pwBPD see their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions.   pwBPD believe that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change.     the highly unstable approach to relationships is a symptom of the illness.

BPD is often comorbid (co-exists) with other mental illnesses.   To use a real life example, my Ex is Bipolar 1 comorbid BPD.   Her mood could swing violently in the matter of minutes.    There is a theory in Bipolar called the Kindling effect.   Its complicated but in a very simple way it suggests that stressful events lower the threshold where mood changes occur.   Basically, each mood swing makes later episodes more likely and more severe.   

pwBPD can and do become psychotic.    My Ex did.   In one episode she believed that the wind would send her car in the direction it needed to go and she would "drive" without her hands on the steering wheel.   She eventually recovered from that episode but in the middle of it she was convinced that her car was steered by wind power.

I would encourage you to not add any volatility to an already volatile situation.   I know this is difficult.    the intense push pull your relationship is going through is bad for both of you.    please think about how to keep things Simple.    And Short.   do not add any intensity to an already intense situation.    consider how to allow the heightened emotions to return to baseline.   be aware that you will return to emotional baseline (a calm steady state)  before she does.

'ducks

Thanks for the reply, Ducks. 

I am aware that she has severe mental illness.  I definitely realize we think and experience things differently.  For 2 mths after she left and I realized that what she has has a name I poured myself into reading hours upon hours each day as well as spending hours in therapy myself. Logically, I will myself that I realize she things differently, but it’s one of those things that you can’t wrap your head around.  This year is our 10th year in each other’s lives.  Think about that. 10 years!   She always displayed signs and symptoms of mental illness, but during our last year it just exacerbated so severely.  She has done things I never dreamed she would do.

Her only diagnosed mental health illness that I know of is anxiety, but I suspect she has been diagnosed with BPD.   It’s just the way she has always says things such as “you know I have a severe fear of abandonment” or “you know I have problems with relationships”.   I think it is highly likely that she has comorbidities of bipolar disorder and possibly schizoaffective disorder and BPD.  She might not meet all the diagnostic criteria, but she definitely checks a lot of those boxes.

Regardless I do love her and don’t like seeing her spiraling down.  I worry about her and truly care about her as a person.  She has really hurt me, but yet I never really experienced any anger at her.  The anger I had was at myself for ignoring the warning signs and not learning more before this all came crashing down

[babyducks]

I am aware that she has severe mental illness... Logically, I will myself that I realize she things differently, but it’s one of those things that you can’t wrap your head around.  This year is our 10th year in each other’s lives.  Think about that. 10 years!   

Since logically you recognize she suffers from a mental illness, perhaps what you are describing with 'can't wrap your head around' is acceptance.

acceptance that your relationship is forever altered by her illness.

Here is what I know about acceptance.   It serves to ground us.    It gives us a steady stable place from which to make decisions and move forward.

Ten years is a long time.    It's quite the emotional investment in someone else's life.    I think its important to accept that those 10 years had huge significance and that it won't be possible to return to the way things were for those 10 years.

For me, acceptance means experiencing life without defense or distress.     What does acceptance look like for you?     Can you accept that her ability to function in a relationship is severely limited?   Can you accept that her illness may mean watching her spiral down into a more unhealthy place?     

It's important to be honest about what a relationship with her can be like.

'ducks

[formflier]

  please think about how to keep things Simple.    And Short.   do not add any intensity to an already intense situation.     

To add to this...


Think about how she does conflict and/or intensity.  Now, think about how you have responded in the past, it's VERY important that you are able to be DELIBERATE about steering the relationship to "simple" and "short" even when she is doing her best to complicate/enrage/add fuel (you name it).

Note..it will appear in the moment that she does NOT appreciate you efforts at simplicity and short, yet please rest assured that is a much better place for you to focus...regardless of her opinion of it.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[WorriedHusband]

Since logically you recognize she suffers from a mental illness, perhaps what you are describing with 'can't wrap your head around' is acceptance.

acceptance that your relationship is forever altered by her illness.

Here is what I know about acceptance.   It serves to ground us.    It gives us a steady stable place from which to make decisions and move forward.

Ten years is a long time.    It's quite the emotional investment in someone else's life.    I think its important to accept that those 10 years had huge significance and that it won't be possible to return to the way things were for those 10 years.

For me, acceptance means experiencing life without defense or distress.     What does acceptance look like for you?     Can you accept that her ability to function in a relationship is severely limited?   Can you accept that her illness may mean watching her spiral down into a more unhealthy place?     

It's important to be honest about what a relationship with her can be like.

'ducks

I’m not saying I’m going back in a relationship with her.  As much as I would love to go back to how we were before this I know that’s not possible. What I really would like is to be there for her if she needs me.  I expect her to lose both parents soon (her dad is stage IV cancer and mom is just poor health). When that happens I anticipate she will crack   

[WorriedHusband]

To add to this...


Think about how she does conflict and/or intensity.  Now, think about how you have responded in the past, it's VERY important that you are able to be DELIBERATE about steering the relationship to "simple" and "short" even when she is doing her best to complicate/enrage/add fuel (you name it).

Note..it will appear in the moment that she does NOT appreciate you efforts at simplicity and short, yet please rest assured that is a much better place for you to focus...regardless of her opinion of it.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

I actually have an understanding of what she has and how to better communicate with her. I have a much better understanding of conflict resolution now.  Before I knew better I would JADE. Had I known before what I was dealing with I think I could have prevented this from happening the way it did

[babyducks]

I’m not saying I’m going back in a relationship with her.  As much as I would love to go back to how we were before this I know that’s not possible. What I really would like is to be there for her if she needs me.  I expect her to lose both parents soon (her dad is stage IV cancer and mom is just poor health). When that happens I anticipate she will crack   

WH -

If you want to be there for her when she loses her parents you are planning on some kind of relationship with her.   Whether it is as a friend, or a care giver, or some other loosely defined relationship.

This is from the Lessons Section of this board:

If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else.

Realistic expectations also means mature expectations.   

[babyducks]

I actually have an understanding of what she has and how to better communicate with her. I have a much better understanding of conflict resolution now.  Before I knew better I would JADE. Had I known before what I was dealing with I think I could have prevented this from happening the way it did

This is an interesting thought.   I am not quite seeing it.    On Friday you blocked her after a long text saying you love her and always will.   Saturday you reached out to her and you are going to get together today.

I am going to suggest this is not a good or improved communication pattern. 

Are you still getting together today?   What's the plan for the meet up?   

[WorriedHusband]

This is an interesting thought.   I am not quite seeing it.    On Friday you blocked her after a long text saying you love her and always will.   Saturday you reached out to her and you are going to get together today.

I am going to suggest this is not a good or improved communication pattern. 

Are you still getting together today?   What's the plan for the meet up?   

Honestly, I still love her.  I have realistic expectations I think.  I understand she has severe mental illness, but I accept that.  We have talked and she is agreeable to therapy and it was actually her idea, but I have never mentioned BPD to her. I’m still hesitant to get back involved romantically.  I now understand much more about her mental illness and I can easily see how her emotions swing back and forth. 

I would actually like to here from some people on this board that have actually been able to make a relationship work and have been successful with all of this

[formflier]

  I understand she has severe mental illness, but I accept that.

Do you also accept that if you choose to be in a relationship with you that you are choosing to embrace the impact of mental illness on the relationship...and on you.

To you, does this (my wording) sound like nuance compared to yours or a fundamentally different statement.

We have talked and she is agreeable to therapy and it was actually her idea

What if she is "agreeable" but doesn't follow through?

I would actually like to here from some people on this board that have actually been able to make a relationship work and have been successful with all of this

I suppose I would be in that category.  

I certainly have found a way to make it work, I'm reluctant to use the word "successful".

For me, acceptance means experiencing life without defense or distress.     What does acceptance look like for you?     Can you accept that her ability to function in a relationship is severely limited?   Can you accept that her illness may mean watching her spiral down into a more unhealthy place?    

It's important to be honest about what a relationship with her can be like.

You can't make this stuff up.  The day prior to babyducks posting this, my wife did/said/believed some things that got me all twisted up.  I spent a good part of the day blaming her (at least in my mind...my internal voice).

That evening I had a conversation with my P (PhD level psychologist) who essentially said the same things babyducks said, but with a bit of nuance.

Then I read this post.

Then I spent most of the day "blaming" myself, after all...who is really responsible for the impact of FFw's apparent mental illness on my life.

Even today, I wouldn't want to claim I've got it all sorted out or that I fully "accept" the situation as it is.

These relationships are doable, but are not for the faint of heart

Best,

FF

[maxsterling]

Reading though your thread here - I can really feel for your situation, and I have experienced much of the same.

I see some VERY good language on the last page about expectations. 

You love her and want things to go back to "normal".  Boy do I get that.

What's hard is changing your expectation of what "normal" is.

Over 7 years, I have changed expectations of what the relationship with my W can be.  She has a very serious mental illness that will not get better.  I've had to accept that us "growing old together" is no where close to something I can control.  There is a real possibility she could suddenly move out, abandon me and the kids, and block us.  There is a real possibility she will commit suicide.   There is a real possibility she could wind up in jail or a long term mental health facility.    There is a real possibility that I will have to take drastic action to protect myself and the kids from her. 

I made an error in assuming that getting married, having kids, health insurance, etc would give my W a sense of stability and things would improve.  It didn't.  When my relationship was at your stage a few months after we were married, she had a breakdown and attempted suicide.  Then she took a vacation by herself for about a month.  Her being upset with me and wanting to move out was the initiative for her to get a job which she managed to keep for over a year (the longest she has kept a job her whole life).  I am guessing your W is reacting to the life changes.  My W says that is what she was reacting to. 

My goal right now is deciding whether this is something I can continue to accept for the long term, and if this type of relationship is acceptable to me or our children. 

I think that is what you need to think about when considering the future with your W.  The behavior you have seen recently is part of her "normal" rather than an exception.  Unfortunately, acceptance of that behavior is part of being in a relationship with her.