We are going to therapi again / advice please

[Swepal]

Brief background:

Father of 3 children, who comes from a toxic relationship, been leaving apart for 6-12 months.
Separated more times than I can remember.

The problems that have been biggest are her black and white thinking / object thinking. Either she hates me, or she loves me. She has difficulty staying in a gray zone. There is splitting and a kind of competition (everything is a contest)

Trust has been a big problem for both her and me.
She has now agreed to therapy once again, we have been before but did not really stick to it and not much changed. I’m going to give it one more go to come to terms with root cause issues that I believe comes from childhood issues. (Her mother is clearly NPD) As for her, it is difficult to determine, may be symptoms of her upbringing but may also have traits in the BPD / NPD.

She had a rough childhood with mother who did everything from looking her in and screaming hos bad she was to kick her out of the house. And alot of both mental and physical abbuse  (Classic in many sense) She did not get to develop a good normal ego in my opinion.  

We have children together and after the rage has passed, she can see issues with herself.
In recent times she has tried to explain her difficulties.

Empathy
Says she has difficulty with Empathy (however, she feels it for the children she says, and I think that’s true)
  - Difficulty when other people feel bad, sad, expresses self-pity, or complain.
  - Difficult to understand when others get hurt

Splitting
  - Describes herself as black or white or two people and realizes that it is difficult control and cant see when it shifts over -
    however, in some moments it is possible to calm her down so that it does not shift. (Something I think she is in a way trying to work on)

  - Can gets extreme when she ends up on the "dark side", there is no limit to what she can do, can be anything from pure lies to
    police reports, etc.
  - Says and does things to hurt others or provoke etc.

Ownership
Difficulties with owning owns faults.
-Extreme difficulty to apologize and take accountability for actions.
- She knows in a way that it is very difficult / impossible for her to say sorry or take on guilt. She    describes that the worst feeling she knows is shame.  It very hard to express things in a manner that she does take as an attack. Even in a corner she has a hard time saying that she was wrong, you can often see how she is struggling to not take on the words directly. (Speaks like a politician in a sense)
- When she tries to take responsibility, it ends up in defense and she accuses me of something instead.

Impulse control
- Mood
- Act in affect (take off, do something to provoke etc.)  (She can see how this affects other and can see that this is an issue)

Communication
Common manipulation techniques when it comes to communication.
- Word salad, lies, guilt, accusation, guilt trips. (This is not something she directly sees in herself and have not addressed it at something she needs to work on, and I haven’t brought it up directly either)

To my question:
We are now going to meet a therapist I next couple of days, I have said that we will go together to set a plan and start working individually with ourselves. I myself have abandonment and also mistrust issues that I want to work on as well my self-esteem. I believe I have some childhood issues I want to work out as well.

The idea is that we will go together and then go separately 1-2 times a month and then joint visits. I see this over a longer period of time, the question is how I best bring out the things I would have liked to change in the relationship in a way that does not become too accusatory against her. I want her to see that there are things that help her, sometimes I experience that she does this, but it turns quite quickly and then she might see it as strengths. (My description)

However, I believe she really feel that this is affecting her life in a negative way at least in this time and period.
So how do I start to describe in hour “first” therapy session to give her the best understanding and will power to stick to it and work through her issues from childhood and be open for change.

I cannot sit and bring up all her faults and point out the similarities to BDP/NPD without making her end up in a defensives state. And I have equal responsibly, it takes two to tango. But I really want to address my issues with or without her. I feel that there is an opportunity now and moment that she can open the door for change and self-reflection she I normally not interested in therapy.

Any advice?
Anyone who has gone though therapy.
I want that both of us really work on our core issues and want to help her and us/family.
And also advice for myself to work on and get the most off the therapy?

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[Serenitywithin]

I have been through this exact thing. A couple of times.
Usually even when being empathetic she sees the conversations as an attack and raged at me during the therapy sessions. Finally BPD got brought up and she lost it.

She quit with the therapy thing. Then I issues ultimatum a few months later so she found a psychologist and said she liked him. Said he would be able to help her. Then after 4 sessions and him having me come to one. He told her I was not attackign her but was very empathetic to her. she raged and balled .. she went twice more to him and stopped. I am guessing he said things she did not like. I pushed for her to go back and then it turned from a I think that guy was helping me and that she was a broken person to I am now the one who needs therapy and why dont I go get some help.

All the while the kids were scared of her and telling therapist this.

I wish you luck and I pray you are able to make progress. Be careful of pointing out anything that she could take as an attack for my WwBPD that was everything.

I am now going to therapy and both of my older children 15 and 12 are also in therapy and I am hoping this will wake her up to issues. That we are all going. I am trying this last ditch effort in hopes she will self reflect before I must take the kids and leave.//

I hope this goes well for you.

[Swepal]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Yes, that's the problem, how do you help someone who has such a hard time seeing their own part in it all? Everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect, but not owning there part of the problem and try to have an understanding of it is very hard. I'm not too hopeful to be honest,  my gut feeling speaks for itself. At the same time I have a hard time shaking off my own feelings. I judge her, do not believe that she can change and are dealing with disipointment and misstrust.  Haveing a hard time seeing that it will last in the long run. It is one of the things I struggle with and which I want to sort out for myself, cus that part is soley mine. I'm strugling if I can let go of past things. Well as you understand thats not a good start and something I have to get help to adress.

This is why I'm thinking about trying to adress her upbringing, she does't mind sharing that part, don't know if it's the classic "I act this way cus I had it rough" or something she is really suffering from.

Hard work this, hope you get on in therapy and both you and your children are helped, let's hope our people of interest come to an understanding of themselves and the need for change. Sad stuff this especially when kids are involved.

[Serenitywithin]

Yes my two older girls have finally out matured their mothers emotional intelligence and see all of it for what it is and have anger and anxiety issues because of it. Seems once they hit 11-12 years old they begin to think mom hates them and it does a mind job.

I have papers drawn up and signed with the lawyer. I am in the last ditch effort after several tries to issue ultimatums and the like. I am not doing ultimatums, but I have decided that if the next conversation or two about it does not shed some self reflecting light that she can see I am going to have to file for the sake of the kids. They are asking me why I have not left her and taken them away yet, which is a hard realization that your kids feel that way.

Always protect your kids. God bless and I hope your loved one self reflects better than mine has thus far.