How do BPD mothers do as children get older and become more challenging?

[summerholiday]

I'm in a co-parenting relationship with a BPD mother. Our daughter is almost 2 years old and we have another on the way. I'm concerned about how she will cope as a parent beyond the infant/toddler stage. Any experiences / advice would be appreciated.

The mother has quite a severe case of BPD and is only allowed to look after our child because I'm there as well. I would actually prefer to live (coparent) separately but that's not possible.

She is extremely messy and lazy. She is also prone to fits of rage over delusional stuff, such as imagining that I'm trying to set up her up with other women. I cope with her moodiness by disengaging. I have to hire cleaners. I do pretty much all the adult things, like earning an income, grocery shopping and cooking. I try to avoid arguing, though she sometimes goes on rants without me doing anything.

But she is actually good as a mother in many respects. She spends large amounts of time with our daughter, reads to her, takes her on outings, etc. She is loving overall.

The concern I have is what happens as our daughters get older? They will realize at some stage that their mother is strange and has dysfunctional or non-existent relationships with others.

Are there potential psychological issues ahead? Can a BPD mother maintain solid relationships with her kids even though her relationships with adults are invariably turbulent? Do parent-child relationships eventually fall apart for people with BPD?

[zachira]

I have just started reading "Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissistic Parent" by Margalis Fjelstad and Jean McBride. I know that Margalis Fjelstad is highly regarded for her knowledge of how to deal with people with BPD and NPD. So far, this book looks like a must read if you have children with a partner who is borderline or narcissistic. 

[Notwendy]

I didn't realize there was a book like this. Surely it's quite helpful.

I didn't know my mother had BPD until I was an adult, so her behavior was puzzling. Add to that - we were not allowed to speak about it. We were to pretend all was "normal" but yes as you said, I noticed my friends' mothers were different somehow and didn't know why.

Are there potential issues? I think that's inevitable. How it turns out dependes on a lot of things. But one issue is the child's normal development for autonomy and a parent who isn't able to emotionally handle that.

I like that you only allow your partner to watch your child when you are there. I didn't leave my kids alone with my BPD mother for that reason.They are young adults now.

I think that you will see a variety of situations on the "parent with BPD" board from the adult child having no contact to trying to maintain some kind of contact but with boundaries.

I also think a lot of the outcome depends on you and other responsible adults/role models who your child is in contact with.  I credit my father for providing for us and being a stable presence. I think this can be done whether or not the two of you live together. The teen age years were tough as by then I knew what appropriate behavior was and was expected to behave, while my BPD mother behaved in ways I knew wasn't OK. I was treated both as another adult in the home- expected to feel responsible for her feelings and then, expected to obey because I was still a child.

I think at some point it would benefit your child to have some kind of explanation. There is less stigma about mental illness now and more is known about BPD. This is a ways off but something to consider when she's old enough.

[summerholiday]

I see what you mean Notwendy about having to take on adult-like responsibilities while your mother wasn't held to the same standard. I guess I've already started on working on teaching our first daughter to be a bit more independent than your average kid to compensate for a mother who can be unreliable. I'm teaching her to clean up after herself for example. But there also needs to be some balance to this.

Will check out the "parent with BPD" board for experiences, though imagine the sample might be a bit skewed. Am hoping that my kids will eventually see my mother as eccentric rather than as someone who left them feel shortchanged as far as their childhood went.

[P.F.Change]

But she is actually good as a mother in many respects. She spends large amounts of time with our daughter, reads to her, takes her on outings, etc. She is loving overall.

The concern I have is what happens as our daughters get older? They will realize at some stage that their mother is strange and has dysfunctional or non-existent relationships with others.

Hi, summerholiday. It's good to see your post. It sounds like you are working very hard to make as good  a life as possible for your family. I think you have some very valid concerns, and I'm also really encouraged that you recognize your co-parent's strengths as well as her weaknesses.

Someone once told me that problems will become apparent when their child surpasses their level of emotional development. There could be something to that. At any rate, a child will normally individuate away from their parents and begin to express their own independence, will, and desires. Every parent struggles with this at some point and at some level (think about toddlers and teens), but for a parent with BPD, who may not be able to fully understand their child is not an extension of their own self or who has relied on the adorableness and neediness of their infant to give them a sense of worth and purpose, those normal developmental stages can feel threatening. A child's growing up feels like abandonment.

I'm afraid it is not possible for someone with BPD to only have the disorder in their relationships with other adults and to stop having it in their relationship with their child. The volatility that impacts their adult relationships will also certainly impact their relationship with their children. Kids are not immune to their parents' disordered behaviors; on the contrary, they usually experience the worst of them. They don't think their parent is quirky or eccentric; they experience the same rages you do when there is no adult to stop it, and they feel responsible. Unless a child has constant messages from stable adults to the contrary, they will grow up believing there is something wrong with them instead. I agree with Notwendy that it might be helpful for you to at least read some of the lessons on the "parent with BPD" board, such as Workshop on Problematic Parenting. Is your co-parent participating in any kind of therapy for her BPD?

I think it is good for children to learn some responsibility and independence in age-appropriate ways, such as how to clean up their toys and tie their shoes. I do feel a little sad because of the way you said you are teaching your daughter to compensate for her unreliable mother. It's hard for a child to feel responsible for adult things. Is it possible that you are sending a message that she needs to parent her mother instead of the other way around?

I do feel concerned for you as well, summerholiday, because of the amount of "fixing" you are doing to try to manage everything all on your own. I hear a lot of resentment coming through underneath it all, and that's understandable. How are you looking after yourself? Do you have a counselor of your own?


(edited to add link)

[P.F.Change]

I have just started reading "Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissistic Parent" by Margalis Fjelstad and Jean McBride. I know that Margalis Fjelstad is highly regarded for her knowledge of how to deal with people with BPD and NPD. So far, this book looks like a must read if you have children with a partner who is borderline or narcissistic. 

I will put this on my reading list, thank you for the recommendation, zachira.

[summerholiday]

At any rate, a child will normally individuate away from their parents and begin to express their own independence, will, and desires. Every parent struggles with this at some point and at some level (think about toddlers and teens), but for a parent with BPD, who may not be able to fully understand their child is not an extension of their own self or who has relied on the adorableness and neediness of their infant to give them a sense of worth and purpose, those normal developmental stages can feel threatening. A child's growing up feels like abandonment.

That's a very good point you raise. A friend of mine once said that, around 13 or so, his boys stopped finding his jokes funny. That pretty much marked the end of close father-son relationships as they orientated towards their school mates, etc.

That kind of shift would be devastating for the BPD mother here and I don't think she would cope well. There is a strong narcissistic element to her mothering, though she does take the role seriously. I guess it's a matter of problem solving as you go, trying to maintain stability and finding non-triggering activities that everyone can do.

Is your co-parent participating in any kind of therapy for her BPD?

She is often doing some kind of therapy or something with someone (e.g. psychiatrist, counsellor, pastor, church group). But it doesn't work generally speaking. She presents her own version of reality to them. The sessions can be extremely counterproductive actually because she paints herself as some sort of victim. With the encouragement of the therapist to be more assertive, she comes away angrier and more difficult to deal with if that's possible.

Is it possible that you are sending a message that she needs to parent her mother instead of the other way around?

Not yet anyway. Everyone needs to learn life skills and I'll just be working on that more with my daughters than usual. They'll need a higher level of independence early just to better deal with the situation. It's a practical matter really rather than an attempt to shift roles.

I do feel concerned for you as well, summerholiday, because of the amount of "fixing" you are doing to try to manage everything all on your own. I hear a lot of resentment coming through underneath it all, and that's understandable. How are you looking after yourself? Do you have a counselor of your own?

You're right - I do feel resentful. It is a new kind of abuse I've discovered here - mooching off someone, sprinkled with verbal abuse.

I'm generally good at processing things and feel like this a community service I'm doing. If she wasn't with me, she would be in deep trouble somewhere else. I think I'm coping OK for the most part. Our daughter is bright, strong and happy. That makes it more than worthwhile right now.

[Notwendy]

I can assure you that the "parent with BPD" board is not skewed, and in fact, I bet some of the posters have shown considerable restraint in posting about their BPD parents.

I find your assumption that it's skewed and your hopes that your children won't feel shortchanged as adults and also see their mother as excentric to be quite interesting because it parallels the statements I heard as a child " don't be silly, your mother is fine" "your mother loves you". These were quite invalidating.

PF Chang made an observation that issues arise as the child emotionally outgrows the emotional age of the parent. I knew something was going on with my mother by this time. I didn't have a name for it but still I had enough maturity to know she wasn't just "eccentric".  It's better for me to understand her from the viewpoint of her having a mental illness rather than to be excentric because it's easier to put the way she has behaved ( and still does) in context of her mental illness rather than her being a competent adult who is just merely eccentric.

[summerholiday]

I can assure you that the "parent with BPD" board is not skewed, and in fact, I bet some of the posters have shown considerable restraint in posting about their BPD parents.

I should have explained the "skewed" comment. I was referring to sampling bias. Essentially every forum that people seek out like this one have a heavy sample bias. People choosing to research this issue in depth and participate have most likely been more significantly impacted than is typical. That's just a statistical reality. It doesn't mean they are misrepresenting themselves.

This is something I've seen in other forums. For example, I do the admin for a university review forum where the vast majority of reviews are negative. People are much more motivated to comment when they've had a negative experience.

II find your assumption that it's skewed and your hopes that your children won't feel shortchanged as adults and also see their mother as eccentric to be quite interesting because it parallels the statements I heard as a child " don't be silly, your mother is fine" "your mother loves you". These were quite invalidating.

I see your point. Some adults could easily get carried away with trying to normalize the experiences of a child, to the point where they slip into misrepresentation.

A less negative perception of a person can be created by achieving a more positive experience for the person forming the perception. That's what I really meant. It's different from not facing up to reality. I'm trying to understand my co-parent as much as possible and will try to find the best way of honestly explaining the situation to our children whenever required. But the main task as I see it is to manage everything so the kids will actually thrive and have functional relationships with their mother.

[Notwendy]

BPD is known to exist on a spectrum, so yes, the milder end of the spectrum may not be as represented. On the other hand, those who seek out help may also be the ones who are seeking to maintain some kind of functional relationship with their BPD mother.

Like you, my father had a lot to do with the relatively good outcome of their children. In fact we have heard people say "it couldn't be that bad, look how you all turned out". But this doesn't negate what went on at home that nobody saw.

We have a functional relationship with my mother to the extent that she is capable of having a functional relationship with other adults in her life. And this is the clause. Your children could grow up as mature adults who are quite capable of having mature relationships but the limiting factor is their mother's ability to have a functional relationship, not theirs.

[P.F.Change]

Not yet anyway. Everyone needs to learn life skills and I'll just be working on that more with my daughters than usual. They'll need a higher level of independence early just to better deal with the situation. It's a practical matter really rather than an attempt to shift roles.

Ok, that's good!

I'm generally good at processing things and feel like this a community service I'm doing. If she wasn't with me, she would be in deep trouble somewhere else. I think I'm coping OK for the most part. Our daughter is bright, strong and happy. That makes it more than worthwhile right now.

I'm so glad your daughter is happy and you feel it's worthwhile to do what you're doing. I'm curious about your desire to save her mother or save the community from dealing with her.  Have you often gravitated toward a rescuer role in your relationships? I wonder if this article might be useful for you (it was a very important concept for me to learn): Codependency and Codependent Relationships

I should have explained the "skewed" comment. I was referring to sampling bias. Essentially every forum that people seek out like this one have a heavy sample bias. People choosing to research this issue in depth and participate have most likely been more significantly impacted than is typical. That's just a statistical reality. It doesn't mean they are misrepresenting themselves.

It's good to consider possible biases when evaluating information, and I think you may be right that some people who post may have had exceptionally negative experiences. However, the very essence of BPD means relationships are volatile--and that applies to all close relationships. There are varying degrees of trauma, resilience, and awareness among people raised by a parent with BPD, but we are all greatly impacted by those dysfunctional behaviors. I think it's informative that we don't see the expected inverse skew from people who had exceptionally positive experiences with a BPD parent (since that cohort would also be more likely to post a review).

One important distinction to make is that this is a highly-moderated self-help community rather than a free-for-all corner of the internet. Part of our mission is to encourage each other toward growth and to seek solutions in place of venting or complaining. We have a library of informative articles and workshops designed to help people improve our relationships. It's not a place where we can get away with a steady stream of negative reviews, so to speak. So, there is not likely to be the same kind of skew you might expect from Amazon or reddit. We are accountable here. The growth model we follow on the board for adult children of parents with BPD is the Survivor to Thriver Manual, and there are many other Lessons to choose from on each of our boards.

I'm really glad you've joined us, summerholiday, and I hope we can continue to help with any additional questions you might have.

[livednlearned]

You are so wise to ask this question when your daughter is 2 and another one is on the way.

I wish I knew then what I learned later.

I also feel that what I learned about how to raise an emotionally resilient child was self-healing in many ways. I hope that this is something that happens for you, summerholiday. It can be a remarkable silver lining.

I'm concerned about how she will cope as a parent beyond the infant/toddler stage.

I can't recommend enough any book you can find on how to emotionally validate your child(ren) and learn what is happening at each developmental stage, both in terms of individuation and the emotional management required to navigate successfully. Ages 0-6 are especially critical.

Power of Validation for Parents is excellent, and so is I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstroms (especially the section on asking validating questions). As a rescuer, you may be tempted to default to parenting strategies that inadvertently invalidate your child's emotional experiences, especially as she tries to make sense of her mother. In a normal family with two normal-range parents, good-enough parenting might be passable. In a family with a BPD parent who seeks validation from the child (reversing the natural parent-child order), status quo parenting can be devastating.

Essentially, you have to do twice the amount of validation with your child(ren) to make up for what's missing from the other parent.

Getting this wrong isn't an option. A lot of our kids have anxiety and depression issues. The chance of developing BPD is higher in families with a BPD parent, too.

It may be a good idea to start play therapy for your daughter early. A child psychologist can help you just as much as your child.

Another book that's good is Bill Eddy's Don't Alienate the Kids, which, while written for people who are co-parenting after a divorce, is essentially about raising emotionally resilient kids when one parent has BPD. He focuses on the non-BPD parent's role in modeling managed emotions, moderate behaviors, and flexible thinking. You'll be introduced to parental alienation which some experts (Dr. Craig Childress) refer to as pathogenic parenting, an extension of personality disorder pathologies that manifest in parenting. For example, your wife may begin to team up against you. "Daddy doesn't love us."

The healthy/emotionally validating response to that statement is, "How did you feel when mommy said that?"

Versus what many of us have done, which is to say, "That's not true! Of course I love you and your mom very much." A seemingly well-intentioned response that only confirms there is a drama triangle and it's one that does not work in your favor.

If you want to get deep into the psychopathology of BPD parenting, James Masterson's Search for the Real Self, while a bit dated, describes the battle to develop a genuine self (and it does appear to be a true touch-and-go battle) when a child has a disordered parent. First he describes how a healthy self develops, then he describes what happens when that development is somehow interrupted.

Masterson describes BPD as a failed or false self that didn't manage the tricky developmental milestones to achieve a real self, and so cannot functionally operate in the world like someone with an intact self might do. This does not bode well for parenting, which requires being able to see the child as a separate and unique person that needs help regulating emotions and learning to venture away from the parent with confidence. If you don't have an authentic, real self, it is all but impossible to help your child develop one.

The second most important skill to model and practice with your daughter is how to have healthy boundaries. This can be a challenge if you yourself struggle with boundaries.

People with BPD may have no boundaries with their children and this can be devastating for young children, something that starts to really show up as they begin to socialize. Your daughter may do relatively ok until she's 7 and especially 8 when things begin to get more socially complex with her peer group. If she doesn't understand healthy boundaries and struggles to regulate her emotions, she may begin to show signs that she's running a deficit that tends to get bigger as her peer group's expectations of social skills gets more sophisticated.

A lot of the skills we embrace here apply to pwBPD (and anyone, really). Your partner may be an insecure parent who struggles with basic stressors and having an infant and toddler at the same time may be all she can deal with. You may feel you have three children to take care of.

I wish I had received professional help from child psychologists earlier than when I did (starting at age 8 for my son).

You will have a profound impact on raising your kids to be emotionally resilient. Just having the courage to ask these questions is impressive. I admire you for having the inclination to look for support from others so early in your parenting.

Your kids are fortunate.

[mart555]

FWIW, my 12yo son was diagnosed with an attachment disorder due to insecure attachment with his BPD mother. That's why his emotions are so messed up. He's doing much better now that I've got sole custody, but I don't know for how long that will stay, his mom isn't happy..

The chapter on developmental trauma from "The body keeps the score" is excellent and shows the impact that childhood has.   It really sucks.

Prevention is key, so is a stable home.  But custody isn't an easy thing to obtain.

[P.F.Change]

You are so wise to ask this question when your daughter is 2 and another one is on the way.
...
You will have a profound impact on raising your kids to be emotionally resilient. Just having the courage to ask these questions is impressive. I admire you for having the inclination to look for support from others so early in your parenting.
...
Your kids are fortunate.

Lots of wonderful advice from livednlearned, as always! And I do want to echo these things she said above. It's very impressive that you're already doing this work now. It will be so helpful for your kids.

[Notwendy]

I agree that it's great that you are thinking about this now. I will share some things that I think helped.

I truly appreciate that you don't allow your children's mother to be alone with the children. As they get older, this remains important. Just as people have stated, the years where the children are small may not be the years where issues arise. I suggest you continue this boundary even if the children are old enough to not require a sitter.

Time away from her with other role models. Spending time with my father's family, I was able to experience other mothers and how they parented. Also time away from the emotions and drama was good.

Professional help. I think counseling is a good thing for the children at some point. They need a place to express their feelings without being invalidated. While you can be supportive of them, you might also find yourself in a triangulating situation with them and their mother. The Karpman triangle is a helpful explanation. Also, you won't have the same perspective they have. People outside our immediate family have not ever seen some of my mother's behaviors- they would not believe us if we did say anything. A romantic relationship is also very different from parent-child.  A professional may be the best person a child can talk to.

[worriedStepmom]

You say that you'd prefer to live and coparent separately but that this isn't possible.  Is the romantic relationship over, or do you want it to be?  Why do you feel that you are trapped in this scenario?

My stepdaughter (SD13) has a mother with uBPD.  It's been challenging, for SD and for us.  We learned much too late that we were focused so much on managing H's ex (walking on eggshells) that we weren't properly protecting SD from the emotional chaos.

As others have noted, the relationship got worse when SD was 6 or 7.  We got primary custody when SD was 11, and after two years of hell, mom is finally settling down and trying harder to parent.  Yet even now, mom constantly sends her pictures of SD as a toddler or a baby.  Those are the years and times mom misses the most.

[zachira]

My mother had BPD and my father enabled her, as did most of the extended family. There were adults who validated my distress and theirs when my mother was abusing me throughout my childhood. I can't tell you how much it helped for me to see the distress on an adult's face when I was being abused by my mother even if it was a total stranger who could do nothing other than show how they felt by the look on their face. Unfortunately, my father never showed emotional distress when I was being abused by my mother though he did do many activities with me without my mother. I think that when your daughter is being mistreated by her mother, it is important to remove her from her mother's presence as soon as you can, and do something with her to reinforce that you love and care for her. Not sure how you can handle having a distressing look on your face when your daughter's mother mistreats her, as people with BPD are very aware of distressed looks and tone of voice which they interpret as abandonment.

[summerholiday]

You will have a profound impact on raising your kids to be emotionally resilient.

This is certainly true.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that I have two older children (13 and 11) that live with me nearly half the time. That's why I have some early awareness of the issues ahead. Their mother is narcissistic. She was callous towards me but is quite devoted to the kids. I've been trying to counterbalance her style of parenting for a long time, which has the non-validating elements you talk about. She's not abusive at all but is insensitive to their individual characters and wants. But they are doing well overall.

The pwBPD here does do some strange things: (i) letting a one-year old make many of the decisions about food, activities, etc. (ii) trying to make her sleep at odd times because of laziness, which involves giving her milk and taking her for drives (iii) sleeping in the same bed as our daughter, who missed the bassinet and cot stages altogether but is now starting to sleep in her own bed.

I have to continually make the call about correcting the mother's behaviors and potentially invoking a negative reaction or letting things slide. It's impossible to fix everything. But I stand ready to do whatever is required to make sure my kids don't get screwed up in some way.

[summerholiday]

FWIW, my 12yo son was diagnosed with an attachment disorder due to insecure attachment with his BPD mother. That's why his emotions are so messed up.

Good luck with trying to get your son back on track. The attachment issue is a big one.

Our daughter has a good relationship with me, partly because I work from home and am well practiced at being a consistent parent. She is also close to a worker at a childcare center. Her relationship with her mother is OK at the moment but will be tested more as our daughter's awareness grows. I suspect she will increasingly register the times when her mother is not really with it and sufficiently responsive.

[summerholiday]

I agree that it's great that you are thinking about this now. I will share some things that I think helped.

Thanks for your suggestions. They are good ones. Am trying to get other guiding influences in there as much as possible. Have organized a trip for the mother and our daughter to stay with her parents. It will be short enough to avoid any major conflicts hopefully.

We are also benefiting from a community service that provides free childcare 4 days a week. Fortunately, the mother has participated in enough counselling and therapy that many others are aware of her issues.

[summerholiday]

As others have noted, the relationship got worse when SD was 6 or 7.  We got primary custody when SD was 11, and after two years of hell, mom is finally settling down and trying harder to parent.

The authorities (Child Protective Services) would not allow a situation where the mother was looking after our daughter without a responsible adult in the same house. So I am kind of trapped. Having another child won't exactly help but I think it's important for our daughter to have another sibling to form a mutually supporting relationship with.

Like you, I may have to go for custody at some stage in the future.

[summerholiday]

Unfortunately, my father never showed emotional distress when I was being abused by my mother though he did do many activities with me without my mother. I think that when your daughter is being mistreated by her mother, it is important to remove her from her mother's presence as soon as you can, and do something with her to reinforce that you love and care for her.

I suspect your father was trying his best. I intervene whenever required (due to sloppy parenting rather than outright abuse), which can quickly trigger a rage episode. I try to stay calm for the benefit of my daughter, hold her and remove her from the scene. She doesn't get distressed this way. Maybe your father was doing something similar.

Showing emotional distress is not something that everyone does. I wouldn't know how to. But I will always choose to stand up for my kids - even if there is fallout.

[zachira]

It warms my heart that you are putting your children first, and know how to help them get to a safer place when their mother is not behaving in the ways that a parent would if the needs of their children were the top priority.

[worriedStepmom]

The authorities (Child Protective Services) would not allow a situation where the mother was looking after our daughter without a responsible adult in the same house. So I am kind of trapped. Having another child won't exactly help but I think it's important for our daughter to have another sibling to form a mutually supporting relationship with.

Like you, I may have to go for custody at some stage in the future.

Do you want to be in this relationship?

If you do, great, we can help you find ways to cope with situations that come up.

If not, though...are you saying you are trapped because CPS won't allow your partner to be alone with the child(ren) and you think it would be wrong to take the kid(s) away from her?

There are agencies (and individuals) who provide supervision for family visits. 

One thing that was really hard for me to learn is that it isn't my job to manage my kids' relationship with their dad or stepparents, or SD13's relationship with her mom or dad.  It's my job to give guidance, love, and protection.  If another parent can't meet minimum expectations, that's on them, not me.

I worry that if you feel trapped now that this can lead to serious resentment, which can spill over into all of your interactions in the house.

[summerholiday]

There are agencies (and individuals) who provide supervision for family visits. 

One thing that was really hard for me to learn is that it isn't my job to manage my kids' relationship with their dad or stepparents, or SD13's relationship with her mom or dad.  It's my job to give guidance, love, and protection.  If another parent can't meet minimum expectations, that's on them, not me.

I worry that if you feel trapped now that this can lead to serious resentment, which can spill over into all of your interactions in the house.

There isn't much choice here. We wouldn't be living together if there wasn't parenting to do. Living together provides a pretty good environment overall for our daughter.

Living separately would be disastrous for the mother-child relationship. Supervised visits isn't really being a parent is it? I don't see that as a good option. And it would be a bit tougher on me having to do nearly all the parenting alone while trying to earn an income.

The frustration from living with someone with BPD is hard to handle at times. Your concerns are fair enough. But it's not all negative. She has ups as well as downs. The joy of parenting is something we have in common. I get enough space to chill out when the stress becomes a bit much.

[Turkish]

uBPD (but diagnosed with depression and anxiety) mom left when D8 was 1 and S11 had just turned 4. We have joint physical and legal custody. We get along.

This past year, D8 has taken to openly saying that she likes me more than her mother. The other day, we were discussing anger. Our daughter had always been the steadfast child. We talked about people who get angry easily. She said "like mommy." I swear I didn't set that up. Hard to know how to respond to that, other than, "so that's how you see her."

It's a balancing act to validate, yet not alienate. Read that book on validation, it's good. It also made me realize how much I was invalidated as a kid by my mother with BPD, anxiety, depression and PTSD. Yes, I'm from that board 

[mart555]

We talked about people who get angry easily. She said "like mommy." I swear I didn't set that up. Hard to know how to respond to that, other than, "so that's how you see her."

It's a balancing act to validate, yet not alienate.

I don't think that saying that mommy gets angry easily would be alienation. It's a fact.  Alienation would be "mommy is mean to you because she gets angry fast".  Well, I think. 

[Notwendy]

This past year, D8 has taken to openly saying that she likes me more than her mother.

I am not sure how to respond to this, because I would have said the same thing.

What I recall from the adults was invalidation. "oh don't be silly, your mother loves you".

It's not that I didn't want attention from my BPD mother, I did- I think all children do, but I gravitated towards my father. My mother also didn't do much of the parenting/mother activities and my father did. I think this helps for a bond with the child. In addition, I felt safer with him.

Children can observe behaviors and try to make sense of them as they get older.

"Don't be silly, your mother loves you" is invalidating and confusing when a parent's behavior isn't consistent with this. But how to validate without alienating the other parent? I think where there is a disordered parent, a professional counselor should take this role to avoid triangulation and to explain that the parent's behavior isn't the child's fault.

[worriedStepmom]

Living separately would be disastrous for the mother-child relationship. Supervised visits isn't really being a parent is it? I don't see that as a good option. And it would be a bit tougher on me having to do nearly all the parenting alone while trying to earn an income.

Being a single parent is definitely tough!

I think you are doing a good job of trying to figure out and balance what your children need, and that you are aware that the situation may change in the future.

We learned the hard way that sometimes it is best for SD to have limited contact with her uBPDmom.

For the last 5 years, SD chose to make me her "mom", even though for part of that her mother had primary custody.  Not by name (god help her if she accidentally referred to me as "mom" in front of her mother), but I was the one she turned to for comfort and love and homework help and to take her shopping.  I did doctor appointments and discipline and explaining the facts of life.  Her mother just couldn't.  Things changed for us when we went to a 90/10 custody model last year, where mom has zero overnights.   Even with this very limited time, they have built a stronger relationship and her mother is able to do some of the "mom" stuff.  I think it's because mom doesn't have to worry about the responsibility and can just have fun with her kid.

Your way seems to be working for you and your toddler right now, and that's great.  I hope that it continues to work.

[mart555]

Living separately would be disastrous for the mother-child relationship. Supervised visits isn't really being a parent is it? I don't see that as a good option. And it would be a bit tougher on me having to do nearly all the parenting alone while trying to earn an income.

My kids are older than yours but not seeing their mom for a year (because she refused supervision) allowed my kids to heal.  What an amazing difference it made. Then they rebuilt slowly via supervised visits.

A bit more than two years ago I thought that 50-50 was what my kids would need. What an awakening that was over the last two years. Kids need a parent that is emotionally stable if they want a chance at developing emotional regulation.  First is co-regulation (they mimic the parent), and then they move onto self-regulation.  Having to relearn co-regulation at 12 years old isn't exactly fun..   I was told "make sure your son lives with you for a long time. Don't send him out in the world to live in an apartment when he's 18.  Make sure he's at least 20, he needs to rewire his brain and that takes time".

Chapter 10 of "The Body Keeps the Score" is worth a read: https://doctorlib.info/travma/body-keeps-score/10.html