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Author Topic: I got angry  (Read 573 times)
truthdevotee
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« on: March 22, 2021, 12:02:20 PM »

I brought my pwBPD and my two sons to a holiday home about 3 hours away, a beautiful Airbnb. I listened to her that she doesn't want to look after the boys in our own flat (I don't know why she doesn't want this). So last second yesterday we booked and we came to the holiday home, beautiful in nature.

The arrangement is that I need to work the first 2 days (today and tomorrow) and then I take a few days vacation. The plan is to be here for 2 weeks and in the second week I'll work again for 5 days before returning to our home at Easter.

Today I started working in one of the upstairs rooms of Airbnb... around an 1 hour in, my son was banging on the door and screaming. It was quite stressful. I didn't implement the needed physical boundary because I was in the same home. It was stressful as I was on a meeting with a colleague simultaneously.

When I left the meeting I went to see my son and my wife felt judged that he was crying outside of my door. I don't know if I judged her or not, however, I have done in the past... rightly or wrongly, I felt in the past that she is lazy and resentful that she has to look after the children and is angry that I have a job that I need to dedicate time and energy to. She'd never consciously admit to this but it's just crazy-making all these issues I have about making my job work alongside my demanding pwBPD.

So when she felt judged she had her own rage... I've been getting more and more impatient and I left the house and worked in the car. Also did a grocery shop... took grocery shop home, and left again for a meeting for work, in the car. When returning, the house was super super messy... it was awful.

I got angry Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) I wasn't shouting per se, but for at least 30 min I was on a rant... it was anger energy... I felt so so so angry that she could do this - all the blame thoughts were coming to my head, and I was already feeling very hurt from her rage earlier in the day when she felt I judged her.

I was commanding her and the children to clean up. I can see I'm getting more and more frustrated as I have never directed anger at them before. But I did this time, directly showed them anger about the mess and instructed them to clean up.

I feel exhausted by my wife, so angry with her, her immaturity and her lack of responsibility..it all started pouring out because I'd driven them all hear for a good time at her request, and she returns it in my eyes by not respecting someone else' home and not ensuring I get my hours done.

But this was my fault - I knew I needed a physical boundary between work and home, I just forgot about it because "we" decided to do this "family trip" to the countryside to facilitate her childcare in an interesting and new environment, and my work... however, it has not helped my work at all. I put "we" in quotes because I actually don't know how I felt about the whole thing; I just felt threatened that I wouldn't get any work done, and also just wanted to satisfy her need and give the boys a fun time.

I'm angry with my wife, that she can't look after these children well. I told her that she has no boundaries and they walk all over her... I was angry and the children and my wife felt it, and although I wasn't yelling, it was anger. I now feel guilty and regret. Sad that I did it, but yet simultaneously understand my own frustration.

It's just more of the same... my job being disturbed, and really I'm angry at myself because I've allowed it. But I need to be easy and not keep this toxic guilt, just live and learn and progress not perfection... my sponsor said that the anger wasn't needed and that's the regret however the desire that the home is kept clean and tidy and that there is order and structure for the children, is healthy.

I learned again after many mistakes in the past that anger never wins - it just pulls me deeper into the world of projection and the longer I stay in anger, the more likely it turns into toxic hatred and the desire to shame. And then, I'm doing exactly the same behavior that my pwBPD does every few days... and of course she points that out and says "we're just the same..." This frustrates my pride tremendously because to me it happens every few weeks/months whereas she does it literally on a weekly basis.

I feel tired and disappointed. I sit from my car and think about the next two days. I'm supposed to take vacation on Wednesday but I told my W that I must work because I've missed so many hours today...

The "limit/boundary" that I said that we will all go home was also said in front of the children. It was a threat and a desire to control my W's behavior, and definitely some desire to give back what she gives me so frequently. That's not mature from my side but also I see that there's a reason for the mistake - to learn. I have to experience getting stuck in anger/hatred in order to learn that it's not worth getting stuck there. Best just to avoid it in the future, clear my mind of guilt, and move forward with more effective action going forward.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 12:10:11 PM by truthdevotee » Logged
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2021, 12:04:48 PM »

Somehow I feel a bit better having expressed some anger about my pwBPD in my post. The level of frustration got so high today. It might be because I didn't sleep long due to the long drive to the holiday home last night (we arrived just before 10pm) and packed in only 2 hours before that. And then trying to balance my job with my needy wife and the two kids... it's just so tiring and I wish my wife could handle it better and not refuse any other option I give her.

Anyways... after the holiday house I'm arranging private kingergarten for my littlest... I hope it will work out. Of course pwBPD resists it because it's expensive yet she offers no other solutions other than to depend on me.
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2021, 01:02:43 PM »



I can understand your resentment that your wife doesn't look after the kids or clean the house. I don't know her emotional age or not, her ability is similar to that. For example, a 12 year old might be able to play with the boys and keep them busy for a short time, with an adult in the other room, available to intervene if the childen get fussy, but expecting a 12 year old to manage all by themselves for more than that, and clean the house is above their maturity level. If you need to work for several hours, the children need to be in the care of a reliable adult. Your wife is an adult in some ways but her emotional age may be much younger.

Anger is a normal response but what I have found is that anger at a pwBPD does not work very well.  Pw BPD have difficulty with their own emotions. They manage them with projection and denial.

Actions are better. Calmly protect your ability to get your work done. This is a priority for you.



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truthdevotee
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2021, 01:55:20 PM »

Thanks again, Notwendy. That example regarding the 12 year old is helpful.

My maturity level dropped today. There was a part of my psyche that was unprepared, not only in terms of organising a separate physical space, but also as subconsciously I expected her to rise to the occasion because of all the love and effort I put forth with organising this beautiful holiday home. Thus I had subconsciously hoped all would be well.

This was naive.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2021, 02:07:23 PM »

This battle between job and work has baffled me since my first son was born

Notwendy, you have said that it is the deeper underlying emotional reason that is often the true reason for the bpd behaviour, rather than what they say. Does it sound accurate that, in a sense, unconscious sabotage is occurring from my wife towards my job?

I don't want to use this insight to fuel judgments on my part, only to better understand what may be happening.
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2021, 02:22:33 PM »

I don't know what your wife would benefit from from interrupting you. My best guess is her own uncomfortable feelings and anxiety and interrupting you to help her cope with that. The other is the shame of admitting incompetence. She may not feel able to deal with the children but knows that is a "normal" expectation of mothers, so she disrupts you for some other reason, or gives another reason for not watching the kids.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2021, 02:27:58 PM »

Thanks...
I struggled today.
A new 24 hours tomorrow.
It never helps to get even mildly annoyed, let alone angry, and I subjected my children to it today. I left the house to work multiple times but simply could not concentrate due to the intense feelings
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2021, 04:09:05 PM »

TD, it's ok. We are not perfect. Being a partner of a pwBPD involves forgiving yourself also. Sometimes we make not so smart moves, but like you say, we learn from it and do better next time.

My therapist says that anger is healthy because it inspires us to set boundaries. Now you know for next time. Don't mix work and pleasure.

I think it is great that you set some boundaries about structure. It is somewhere around here that you decide if you are going to teach your boys these things. Because then you will come smack up against the reality that it is very hard to teach them responsibilities that their mother cannot take. Your anger was justified, if not tactfully expressed.

That said, I suspect that she does feed off your attention somehow. As in if being responsible and structured was the way to get your attention, she probably would try harder. At the moment it seems as if she can get your attention by behaving badly and being needy. I think notWendy is right, and you probably would get better results treating her as a 12 year old in some ways.

Well done on being clear about the way you would like your life to be organized in future!

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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2021, 06:18:54 PM »

I think in some cases, pwbpd get jealous of the spouse's job because it's time spent not focused on the bpd and their needs. My ex used to constantly interfere with my job because it was his way of testing whether or not I would drop everything at his whim, and also because he wanted 100 % monopolization of my time and resented anything that meant I had responsibilities that didn't include him.

I think arranging other childcare would be good for your children. It would certainly give them some stability and a routine. Don't be surprised if your w continues to interrupt your work, though.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2021, 03:17:28 PM »

Thank you khibomsis and I Am Redeemed

Thanks so much...

Today was a better day. I feel exhausted and sad, but no regrets. Tomorrow another 24 hours.

I feel tired of it all sometimes. Some days more inspired, other days more heavy. When I share with my 12 Step sponsor it always feels relieving though.
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2021, 11:54:40 PM »

But I need to be easy and not keep this toxic guilt, just live and learn and progress not perfection

alternatively, id encourage you to look at this from your wifes perspective.

Excerpt
I listened to her that she doesn't want to look after the boys in our own flat (I don't know why she doesn't want this)

you say that you listened, but that you dont know why she wouldnt want this.

a family trip becomes your wifes full time job of managing and looking after the kids. and if, as kids do, they act up, youre frustrated.

Excerpt
Today I started working in one of the upstairs rooms of Airbnb... around an 1 hour in, my son was banging on the door and screaming. It was quite stressful. I didn't implement the needed physical boundary because I was in the same home. It was stressful as I was on a meeting with a colleague simultaneously.

if this is stressful for you, it is stressful for her.

Excerpt
I have a job that I need to dedicate time and energy to. She'd never consciously admit to this but it's just crazy-making all these issues I have about making my job work alongside my demanding pwBPD.

So when she felt judged she had her own rage... I've been getting more and more impatient and I left the house and worked in the car

I was commanding her and the children to clean up. I can see I'm getting more and more frustrated as I have never directed anger at them before. But I did this time, directly showed them anger about the mess and instructed them to clean up.

I feel exhausted by my wife, so angry with her, her immaturity and her lack of responsibility..it all started pouring out because I'd driven them all hear for a good time at her request, and she returns it in my eyes by not respecting someone else' home and not ensuring I get my hours done.

I'm angry with my wife, that she can't look after these children well. I told her that she has no boundaries and they walk all over her...

my friend, im not sure this is a realistic, or responsible attitude.

you told your wife you were going on a trip. this is normally something to look forward to for the family.

it became clear that the trip meant, for her, a full time job of managing and correcting children, full of energy.

when she protested, you shut her out and dismissed her concerns.

when the inevitable happened, you shut everybody out and blamed her. you dont understand why she would feel judged?

and then you threatened them all.

look. this place, this forum, and especially the Bettering Board, are about constructive criticism, about examining our role in conflict and improving our part. respectfully, im on your side here, in the interest of your marriage and your fatherhood. if this were reddit, and an "am i the bad guy" thread, id be giving you the same advice.

this approach is toxic and unreasonable and high conflict.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2021, 02:22:03 AM »

Hi once removed

Thanks for writing, I appreciate you challenging me to improve my part in the dynamic. My desire is not to cast blame onto my wife.

It is true that I'm more and more exhausted. For several years I've taken responsibility for my part in the dynamic with my wife - as best I could - with several support mechanisms. I've tackled my own mental health issues with medication and 12 Step work, and therapy (ADHD, OCD).

I made a big mistake with this anger burst. I am absolutely not proud of it. It was immature and toxic for my family. It is the first time anger came out toward my children.

I've been struggling to get proper work days in for several years... it all just got to me as I'd agreed with my wife to go to the holiday home in order to give her and the boys an easier time. Subconsciously, I hoped I'd get more work done.

This is not an excuse for poor behavior.

I fully agree with you - my attitude in this circumstance was toxic.

You are correct - I could definitely listen more to my wife's perspective - I've done it for several years, listened closely, validated, etc. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. Since arriving at this forum 2 months ago and discovering the patterns of BPD through books, my life is changing. Deeper understanding, but same levels of internal challenge... I'm realizing I've been the classic Caretaker.

So, I appreciate your challenge toward me - I'd like them to keep coming. I am honestly exhausted and perhaps some demand to take deeper responsibility on my part is the issue. My sponsor (an ex military guy), has helped me take responsibility for my mindset for several years... recently he's gone more soft on me. An old couple's therapist validated my wife deeply and I felt ignored - he advised that I disconnect from my family of origin. I'm not sure if that was healthy, but it was all designed to try to prove to my partner that I love her, care for her, prioritize her... since I arrived at the forum, things are getting harder.

We came on this "holiday" with the agreement that I would get more work done. It just hasn't been as easy as I expected, and expectations not met breed resentment. I take responsibility for that.

I dislike my own falls into low behavior, victimhood and anger more than anybody.

I take from your post that I need to find within myself the courage to face the fact that 1) I have codependency / enmeshment issues triggered when my two year old is banging on a bedroom door whilst I'm on a work meeting, and the meeting attendees can hear it and 2) I am holding deep anger/resentment about my wife... it's so deep that it comes out unhealthily. Somehow I need to heal it. I am practicing A Course in Miracles (very much imperfectly) and working with my 12 Step group to take responsibility for my poor conduct, whenever it occurs.

I feel some anger with your post because I wonder if you've understood the essence of what is occurring. But you might, and I truly HONOR and THANK YOU for being a Friend who has the courage to get me to self-reflect - I honestly believe you're correct and I see that this exhaustion and lethargy and hopelessness I'm feeling with my wife isn't helping. 50mg Paxil and 40mg Ritalin help, but it's so deep... I'm angry with myself for not being able to be stronger.

I love you I'm sorry please forgive me thank you

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truthdevotee
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2021, 04:20:34 AM »

BP/NP communication is often vague, convoluted, and confusing, starting out with one topic and morphing into a dozen or more topics with no conclusions and no decisions made at the end. You may find yourself agreeing to things you don’t agree with or thinking that one conclusion has been made but the BP/NP insists it was a different conclusion. This type of communication is used to manipulate and control you into doing what the BP/NP wants. If you want to talk clearly about something that is bothering you, a good process to follow is the Yale communication model. Use it first with yourself to clarify what you actually feel and want. Then try it with your children. It works extremely well with kids. Then move on to using it with friends and at work. When you feel competent in its use, try it with the BP/NP: 1. When ____________ happens 2. I feel ____________ 3. I would like ____________ 4. Or I will need to ____________ This model is a powerful means to communicate clearly with anyone and especially with highly sensitive or manipulative people. It conveys what you see is a problem, how you feel about it, and what you want. It is designed to be clear, concise, nonemotional, and nonjudgmental. Therefore, it is less likely to get off track and become attacking. It also does not require the BP/NP to do much of anything except listen. It is not a cure-all for every challenging communication with a BP/NP, but it is an effective tool.

-Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2021, 06:24:16 AM »

When you feel competent in its use, try it with the BP/NP: 1. When ____________ happens 2. I feel ____________ 3. I would like ____________ 4. Or I will need to ____________ This model is a powerful means to communicate clearly with anyone and especially with highly sensitive or manipulative people.

I tried this this morning with my sons and it worked well. I think part of my exhaustion relates to my becoming more and more heavy and commanding. I can start to feel lighter by dedicating to this technique.

With my wife ill try it too. I generally use I feel statements with her and sometimes validation. This technique will make me more effective to communicate personal feelings and perspectives which currently feels very unsafe.
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2021, 03:17:38 PM »

Today by Grace I found within deeper peace and the healing of exhaustion. Exhaustion is really suppressed energy in the form of negative emotions. Releasing that stuck energy is relieving and a blessing. With the Gift of inner freedom happened better listening and validating of my partner. I was reflecting on emotional age and it makes so much sense from that perspective. I'll focus going forward on continuous healing of that tendency toward exhaustion, and validating my partner, but without losing myself as I did before arriving at this forum, and ensuring I listen to my inner guidance.
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2021, 03:21:03 PM »

I tried this this morning with my sons and it worked well. I think part of my exhaustion relates to my becoming more and more heavy and commanding. I can start to feel lighter by dedicating to this technique.

With my wife ill try it too. I generally use I feel statements with her and sometimes validation. This technique will make me more effective to communicate personal feelings and perspectives which currently feels very unsafe.

This technique is really working with my children
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2021, 03:39:17 PM »

Ah, TD, learning to forgive oneself is the most important skill one needs to be in a relationship with the pwBPD. That and coming right from dysregulations. The two are closely intertwined, for the first I chant (confession is good for the soul) and for the second I find that the more I love myself the more I am able to see the suffering soul behind the dysfunction.

Funny you should mention emotional maturity! I feel that if you considered your wife as a 12-year old level of maturity and delegated to her the proportion of household tasks appropriate to her age, maybe she would feel a sense of achievement? You have had fuzzy boundaries in the past which makes it a little uphill,  yet if she cannot be left with the boys at least she can cook and clean, do laundry, etc? With time more structure would calm the whole family down.

Well done on taking responsibility and finding new earnestness for your task! One day at a time is the only way we can do this.
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 02:00:20 AM »

I made a big mistake with this anger burst. I am absolutely not proud of it. It was immature and toxic for my family. It is the first time anger came out toward my children.

im not talking about an outburst, or losing your cool. weve all been there. i once screamed at my ex (then girlfriend) that she was psychotic and that i hated being her boyfriend, among many other choice words and actions over those years.

im talking about what i see as an attitude toward your children and your wife that may be isolating you from them, and them from you.

Excerpt
I feel exhausted by my wife, so angry with her, her immaturity and her lack of responsibility

before i continue: outside of work, what do you see as your responsibility(s) to your children, to your wife, to your marriage?
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 03:27:25 AM »

Ah, TD, learning to forgive oneself is the most important skill one needs to be in a relationship with the pwBPD. That and coming right from dysregulations. The two are closely intertwined, for the first I chant (confession is good for the soul) and for the second I find that the more I love myself the more I am able to see the suffering soul behind the dysfunction.


Hi khibomsis, thanks. Yeah, self forgiveness has been a big challenge over the years.

It was OMing that shifted my energy yesterday. I OMed for about 5 minutes. The energy in me and around me completely shifted. It was miraculous. All the pain left me and I felt neutral and happy again. Spontaneously I physically embraced my wife and shared that love with her.

Excerpt

Funny you should mention emotional maturity! I feel that if you considered your wife as a 12-year old level of maturity and delegated to her the proportion of household tasks appropriate to her age, maybe she would feel a sense of achievement? You have had fuzzy boundaries in the past which makes it a little uphill,  yet if she cannot be left with the boys at least she can cook and clean, do laundry, etc? With time more structure would calm the whole family down.


Last night I was specifically focusing on seeing the emotional maturity as it is. It was interesting that I could literally see the 12 year old emotional expression and even that essence in her eyes.

Excerpt

Well done on taking responsibility and finding new earnestness for your task! One day at a time is the only way we can do this.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Thank you for your love, support and encouragement. I'll be Oming more consistently to keep that level of connection to Source and be that channel to this family
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2021, 03:38:47 AM »

im not talking about an outburst, or losing your cool. weve all been there. i once screamed at my ex (then girlfriend) that she was psychotic and that i hated being her boyfriend, among many other choice words and actions over those years.

im talking about what i see as an attitude toward your children and your wife that may be isolating you from them, and them from you.

before i continue: outside of work, what do you see as your responsibility(s) to your children, to your wife, to your marriage?

I see, thank you for seeking to uncover an attitude I may not be aware of. With an open mind and in the spirit of the search for truth, I am open to your guidance and will answer your question as honestly as I can.

Outside of work, my sense of responsibility is governed by the same underlying intention is for my work: to be of service to the family from the Heart.

To me, this means doing everything needed. It's meant taking responsibility for 90% of shopping and cooking, doing my fair share of cleaning in the house, organising childcare, organising and buying gifts for the children for birthdays, organising and paying for holidays etc.

Above all of that, my job is to strive to be a source of strong and consistent emotional and psychological support through self education, ensuring my own emotional life is handled with support from outside the family, and intention. With my kids, this has been easy and I'm perhaps too supportive, so I need to watch for that. With my wife, it's been incredibly hard and I realise that is due to not being aware of her BPD.

My job as father is to be proud of and encouraging to my boys, to protect my wife and boys from outside danger, to ensure structure and ensure a healthy level of discipline... Essentially it's to carry inside me a high level of loving energy so that this energy influences their lives and makes each day safe, exciting and happy e.g. By ensuring everybody gets outside on exciting trips to nature, to parks, restaurants, holidays, etc.

Lastly, I seek to provide educational tools, books etc. to both my wife and children.

My struggle has been to keep contact with my FOO so that my wife and boys have that side of our culture and family to influence them. This is because my wife dislikes my FOO and believes I am unhealthily enmeshed.
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 07:17:00 AM »

I feel that if you considered your wife as a 12-year old level of maturity and delegated to her the proportion of household tasks appropriate to her age, maybe she would feel a sense of achievement?


This is an interesting dilemma. The main focus in my family growing up was to make sure my mother was not stressed. This meant not relying on her and doing things ourselves.

We get good at what we practice. If a 12 year old spends more time cooking than the parent, eventually they are more competent at it than the parent. However, this also created a sense of shame for my mother as her children got older and did more.  People don't want to admit they can't do something- so the natural response to being expected to do something they don't feel competent at is to refuse to do it.

This created a situation where the more we did, the less BPD mom did. The less she did, the less her sense of accomplishment was.

Ironically as well, the more we do for her, the more she feels like a victim because of this loss of self esteem and the way she is perceived in the family. We didn't see her as competent and each time we took over something it also came accross as a put down.  

Since asking her to do something for me is mostly met with indignation, I don't do it. But one day when the kids were little and she was visiting, I was busy with the kids and asked if she could make the kids sandwiches. She did and I could also see she was very happy. I realized that perhaps she felt needed, probably something she didn't usually feel in her family.

Lastly, I seek to provide educational tools, books etc. to both my wife and children.

Your wife may have the emotional age of a younger person, but she isn't a child. No, your job is not to provide educational material for her or try to fix her. This gives the message that you think she needs fixing. The only "fixing" job we have is to improve ourselves. Your wife may not have the emotional reserve or tolerance to watch children, but what can she do? Can she fix a meal? Fold laundry? Start with one thing and let her have a sense of accomplishment to build on. This isn't "fixing" - it's allowing her to do and learn.





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