I got fooled for the fourth time

[Fooled Again!]

I was a regular here in 2012 - 2013. That was when I first (knowingly) encountered someone with BPD. She was a coworker who became a stalker. I had to see a therapist to get coaching on how to deal with the situation.

Part of that therapy brought me here. I discovered that not only did my coworker have BPD, but also my WIFE!

We divorced in 2013 and in 2015 I began a relationship with a woman who also turned out to have BPD. Once again I had been fooled - even though I thought had learned how to spot the warning signs. She had a few recognizable traits but when I discovered she lived a secret life as a CALL GIRL all the pieces instantly fell into place and I got the hell out of Dodge.

In 2017 I began a relationship with a woman that started out as a romance. After about 6 months we decided to just be friends. We were very close friends. As you can guess I realized that she too has BPD.

As before, most of the warning signs were right in front of me and I failed to connect the dots. Then over the past few days she blossomed and yesterday she broke off all communication in anticipation of being abandoned by me. (I'm moving to another state next Spring)

Today I reflected on everything I knew about her and applied what I know about BPD and of course it was obvious that for the fourth time I allowed myself to be fooled.

The cherry on top is that in 2017 my mom was diagnosed with BPD.

I have no doubt the reason I keep getting tangled up women who have BPD is because I was raised by one. I was programmed to be the eternal chump.

So I need some counseling in order to break this cycle.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Fooled Again!]

My best friend seems to have BPD. I don't want to lose her friendship and I don't want her to keep hurting herself and others. Should I tell her I think she has BPD? She has already shut me out but I know she watches for my texts.

[Fooled Again!]

Do we have to donate before we get answers to our questions? Asking for a friend

[Turkish]

How did you feel when you learned your mom had BPD? Did you previously suspect?

[Fooled Again!]

yes. I insisted the staff at her nursing home evaluate. I was right...as usual.

[Turkish]

Would telling her that she's "crazy" make things better?

I encouraged my ex to get help and she accused me of "throwing her 'sickness' in her face." She's officially Dx'd with Depression and Anxiety. She's likely sub-clinically BPD.

My mom had PTSD, Depression, Anxiety. She was given a suggestive Dx of BPD which she picked up on and accepted. Years ago, she went through 7 therapists before she found one she trusted. She was on mood stabilizers. That all maybe kept her alive, but it didn't change who she was.

Since you were here last, we organized threads to make it easier to find information:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

Telling someone you think they have BPD:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=76633.0

[Fooled Again!]

Looking for yes or no. Im 62. I live in the world of yes or no.

[Turkish]

Do you want to escalate drama (not helpful to either of you)? NO.

Otherwise... yes.

Since your mom has BPD, I'd encourage you to post about that on the Parent, Sibling, and In-law board. PSI.

[Fooled Again!]

So your opinion is to not tell her she needs help, and let her continue to hurt herself and all men she decides to ____ with?  That's your learned advice?

[Fooled Again!]

Read this..Outside of your pc bubble real people say ___ and ___ and all the other words that the pc nazis hate. If you deny therapy based on that, then you are the lowest form of organic life.

[Turkish]

Based upon not only my experience with my ex, but also my mother, and the stories of members here I've been reading over the last 8 years,  it's likely to do more harm than good.

[Fooled Again!]

So the next guy gets set up. People like us became victims because nobody warned us. That's PLEASE READed up dude..
.

[Fooled Again!]

I'm gonna tell her. I'm gonna point her here. She needs help and I think she knows it. Prove me wrong.

[Turkish]

Would it have changed if you were warned? You've been in several BPD relationships. You've realized that you may have been attracted to such partners due to your mother having BPD. I realized that too a few years ago.

For what it's worth, I could have warned the young buck (20 years my junior) that my ex left me for. He wouldn't have believed me. She treated him worse than me. Cops, an arrest,a restraining order against his brother, DV... divorce. Our kids are 9 and 11 (I'm an older dad). Will I warn the next guy who falls in love or lust? What does that gain me? Would that hypothetical man believe me? I wouldn't.

What do you really want with telling her she's sick? Many members here have done so.

Then tell her and please report back. Success stories give members hope. There are a few.

[Fooled Again!]

Ok so I am in the world of just submit. Just put the diaper on your face.
Well to that I say ___ you!

[Rev]

Do we have to donate before we get answers to our questions? Asking for a friend

Hello fooled,

My name is Rev and I read through your last thread with Turkish. The answer to your question in "no" - you do not need to donate to get answers to your questions.

In fact this is a rather peaceful place.

Please do not take what I am about to say as criticism. Are you aware of the etiquette of not using CAPS when writing. Using CAPS is the way people yell in writing.

I can feel for your anger - many men I have met here went through a phase - and if you are a victim of abuse (which it appears that you are) then I feel terrible that this happened to you. I know only too well how hard and how long it can take abuse victims to be heard, understood and accepted.

The way out is through the anger, to eventually let it go. The anger lets us know that something is really wrong and helps us to defend ourselves, not from our past from but from our future.  We do this for ourselves not others. We do this so that our cognitive brains work better and learn to better trust our intuitions about people. That's what allows victims to move beyond their victimhood.

Hang in there, and please don't make any rash moves. Time is actually your ally in your healing.

Peace,

Rev

[Skip]

Read this..Outside of your pc bubble real people say ___ and ___ and all The other words that the pc nazis hate. If you deny therapy based on that, then you are the lowest form of organic life.

Hi Fool'  

The language policy is to prevent the site from being classified as "unsafe" and thereafter blocked at wifi hotspots and business locations. It's a small price we pay to exend our reach to people in crisis. If you need to express yourself, try  

... it was obvious that for the fourth time I allowed myself to be fooled. The cherry on top is that in 2017 my mom was diagnosed with BPD. I have no doubt the reason I keep getting tangled up women who have BPD is because I was raised by one. I was programmed to be the eternal chump.

As was everyone with BPD (or any personality disorder). Upbringing affects us. Life affects us. Many here realize that while they don't necessarily have a chronic mental illness, they may be dealing with issues acquired in life and this is a place to work on that.

So I need some counseling in order to break this cycle.

That makes sense.

In 2017 I began a relationship with a woman that started out as a romance. After about 6 months we decided to just be friends. We were very close friends. As you can guess I realized that she too has BPD.

As before, most of the warning signs were right in front of me and I failed to connect the dots. Then over the past few days she blossomed and yesterday she broke off all communication in anticipation of being abandoned by me. (I'm moving to another state next Spring)

I don't think "HEY,   , YOU HAVE BPD" would be in your best way to re-open the lines of communications.

What has the last six months been like?  What has your relationship been all about - the good - the reoccurring conflict? Why did she say she is not talking to you? What happened yesterday? Why is she upset?

[Fooled Again!]

She didn't say "I'm not talking to you". She just stopped replying. We typically just text each other. Up until this week she and I talked multiple times a day at all hours. For the past couple of years she was in the needy stage.

The first week of March I went down to Tennessee to scout out a place to live. I texted her on Sunday and got no reply. The next day she said she had been out of town. I asked her for details and she said was camping with a friend at an RV park in the Wisconsin Dells. She made it sound like she was with a married couple. I didn't think anything about it.

The following 2 weeks it was business as usual. Lots of communication at all hours. She was very interested in the things I was interested in, asking my opinions about what she should do, and complaining about her aches and pains and her recent medical scan. She would call me late at night if she couldn't sleep.

Looking back I think she was saying "Don't leave me I need you."

Last week I went to North Carolina to scout out more places. We talked multiple times every day. On Easter Sunday I wished her Happy Easter and she replied "You too! I'm just getting into the shower."

The next day she told me she had been out on her ATV on Sunday with some friends and her body was really sore as a result. I told her I didn't know she still had an ATV and she told me she bought it 2 weeks ago. (while I was in Tennessee) I asked if she was with the same friends she was camping with and she said yes.

I said "you bought and ATV 2 weeks ago and you're just now telling me?" She usually tells me everything. And typically she would have asked me if she should buy it, so I was very surprised. I asked her to send me a pic and she said she didn't have any yet. That's not like her at all. She normally would have at least a dozen pics of her new toy. I asked her how big it was and she told me it was used. A 2005 Polaris 570 with only 400 miles on it. I checked that out and they didn't make the 570 until 2014. So alarm bells started ringing.

I had to coax it out of her but she finally told me she had met someone on Facebook and they really like each other and have been hanging out on the weekends. I told her I was happy for her because she had told me she didn't want to be in a relationship because she was "broken". She said she stopped looking and was better off alone.

I asked her when they met and she said January. I was shocked that she had kept this a secret. She said no body knows because she didn't want nosey questions and eye rolls. She got very hostile as I continued to aske her questions. My red flags were waving and we wound up having an argument about her being so secretive about all of this.

I was giving her rides to the hospital and doctors offices while she had a secret boy friend who should have been doing that.

Two days later I apologized for getting upset and we chatted for about an hour. She said she was very sick and had gotten a COVID test. She said she thought it was a sinus infection. I told her to keep me posted and let me know if I can help. She said she would.

The next afternoon I asked her she had gotten the test result and she said it was negative, and was going to get antibiotics after work. (She works from home)Again, she normally would have told me the results as soon as she got them.

Later that night I asked her if she got her meds and I never got a reply. I haven't heard from her since.

Yesterday I connected all the dots and reviewed the information on this sight. It was right in front of me the whole time and now she is in the Hater Phase.

We had been very close friends for about 3 years. She even moved in with me last summer while her house was being rebuilt (mold remediation). Our relationship was platonic.

When we first met, we dated and she had several flares of anger. We had so many arguments that after about 6 months I broke up with her. About 6 months later we bumped into each other at Walmart and decided to just be friends.

I strongly suspect there is no secret boyfriend or ATV. My guess is she's playing a game.

Last night I was in Rescuer Mode and wanted to tell her I think she has BPD. Today I know that's a bad idea. I need to just let it go and disengage.

I need to focus on me right now.

[Skip]

Setting the anger and "the other guy maybe" thing aside for a minute... do you see a future with her? Or was announcing your relocation the beginning of the end?

Do you really think she is making up a story about seeing someone else?

[Fooled Again!]

We were just friends. We could be friends no matter where I live.

I was married for 32 years. It ended when my wife lied to me for over 6 months about having a terminal illness.

My first girlfriend post divorce was busted by the FBI for embezzling from her employer for the entire time I knew her.

I broke up with the next girlfriend when I discovered she was moonlighting as a call girl. Everything she had told me was a lie.


So yeah, I have learned to assume she is lying to me about having a secret boyfriend.

[Skip]

And...

do you see a future with her? Or was announcing your relocation the beginning of the end?

[Fooled Again!]

I no longer see a future with her. I think when she realized I was serious about relocating it was the beginning of the end.

[Skip]

I only partially understand your story, so it's hard to say much.

If you were planning to move away and you wanted to move from a romantic to a platonic relationship, that is probably doable, given your long history. The transition would take some work on both parts.

She may have had different intentions and your move could be a painful loss for her. Your move could also have be a wake-up call that she needs to start rebuilding her romantic life.

And friendships are different than romances. Friends have fewer expectations and higher levels of forgiveness. If my best friend disappears (and he does from time to time), and the resurfaces, I think nothing of it.

Of course, if you were in an exclusive romantic relationship and she was seeing someone behind your back, that would be seriously wrong.

Your last comments seem to suggest that you feel that she is trying to make you jealous or punish you by bringing another guy (real or perceived) into the picture and seriously trimming back communications.

I no longer see a future with her.

You wouldn't be this upset if you were willing to just walk away...

What's the whole story? Why are you moving? Have you two talked about what your future would be after the move? Were you hoping to do a long distance relationship for a while and then maybe something more?

[Fooled Again!]

Ok quick recap:

We dated for 6 months and broke up 3 years ago

Then we were just platonic friends...but very close.

To my knowledge she had no expectations beyond that.

I retired and want to move back to the south because of climate.

Her behavior suddenly changed dramatically while I exploring southern states.

I suspect that she is playing a game OR has actually severed ties in advance of being "abandoned".

I'm upset with myself as much as anything because I failed to connect the dots sooner,  and have once again gotten myself involved with a borderline.

[Fooled Again!]

Ok then,

looks like I came the wrong place for counseling. Thanks for nothing.

[Skip]

looks like I came the wrong place for counseling. Thanks for nothing.

This isn't a counseling center. We are an adjunct to therapy and therapists often refer clients here. This is a peer support group and a thoughtful one, at that. In peer support, it's important to establish rapport.

I duplicated your thread on the on the Parent Siblings board as a place to discuss your fooled again theory (BPD mom, serial BPD relationships). Let's talk about your "friendship" here. It would be good to build rapport in both places.

...friendships are different than romances. Friends have fewer expectations and offer higher levels of forgiveness. If my best friend disappears (and he does from time to time), and then resurfaces, I think nothing of it.

Of course, if you were in an exclusive romantic relationship and she was seeing someone behind your back, that would be seriously wrong.

When "friends" get into relationships, especially in the early part, they often shift their attentions toward the new potential love - honeymoon period. That is normal. I know that when my partners best friend found her husband 5 years ago, the two of them mourned their friendship because they knew their annual trips and the frequency of their local dinners were going to be rare.

It's the natural cycle of things.

If you are her friend, show her your friendship now. Don't compete for her time, don't make her feel guilty, don't ask piercing questions. Tell her you are excited for her - not that she is mentally ill.

If she has a romantic interest right now, it's really about her shifting toward him. Her shift away from you is collateral damage.

Does that sound right (not a rhetorical question)?

[Fooled Again!]

Sounds right and I am doing all the positive things you mentioned. I am still skeptical about her secret boyfriend. We are communicating again but not like before, and since I have no romantic interest with her I am leaving it alone.

I'll move over to the other thread.

Thx