More SS-related drama

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Somehow I responded to an excerpt and this reply was intended for a different thread.  Either way hope sharing my experience helps someone!

[St Jude]

Somehow I responded to an excerpt and this reply was intended for a different thread.  Either way hope sharing my experience helps someone!

[formflier]

Oh, I agree that I may need to initiate. By waiting for a moment I meant more like making sure the mood and situation are right.

To a point I agree with you.  If he is able to show up for a friendly brunch/hangout session...then that's a good time.

Should he walk away or refuse to engage...then your job going forward is taking the stance that "this is the next issue..when you are ready"

So...he comes home a couple days later and wants to talk about your third cousins neighbor's betrayal...or even setting up a fun vacation.  Let him know you are ready to chat about that..after the brunch conversation is done...and it would appear now is a good time.

He gets no satisfaction/relief from running.

He does get relief from taking healthy steps guided by mental health professionals.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

To FF’s point, in no way am I encouraging you to share more fully with your husband. Rather I’m saying that he notices that you have a sense of ease with others that you don’t have with him, due to being hypervigilant—for good reasons.

Before things got better with my husband and me, he too would notice how easygoing I was with other people—friends, contractors, casual acquaintances and how I’d joke and laugh and was so comfortable talking with them. And he was jealous that I was no longer like that with him.

Like you, I was wary and watchful, concerned about setting him off.

Things are better nowadays. He is generally in a less reactive space, but he still gets set off. The difference is that I no longer participate in his emotional upsets, and let him deal with it alone.

Sure there’s been a couple of times in the last year that I got triggered too and began to argue. But unlike how I previously responded, once I realized how fruitless that conversation was, I quickly changed direction and extricated myself.

Should you take this path, you’ll have to endure endless comments about how uncaring and heartless you are for not being “more concerned.” When he said that, I agreed. “Yep, I’m probably the most thoughtless and unkind person you’ve ever known,” then I beat a hasty retreat and did something alone that was enjoyable.

[Ozzie101]

Thank y’all for the clarifications. Cat, I would like to get where you are. Maybe it’s possible. I don’t know.

I’ll admit, FF, the idea of having the conversation and holding to it makes me feel very nervous. Not that I think you’re wrong — at all. You’re most likely right. I think the instability of the last year (really escalating in the recent months) has me afraid of pushing him too far. Though, I realize that is letting him and his emotions drive the ship and that is counterproductive.

But it might not be that bad. I expect a lot of “I just don’t think I should have to be the only one who has to change.” I would, of course, agree that I have things to work on as well.

And thank you for your input St Jude! Our situations do sound similar.

[Cat Familiar]

Although it may not come across on this forum since I’m being very self disclosing, I’m a very polite and reserved person in real life. Though my internal dialog is one of extreme profanity, I have perfected the art of having a poker face and being aware of my body language and minimal cues. (Such are the benefits of growing up with a very intrusive BPD mother.)

I’m typically very strategic in my important communications, it could be said that I’m manipulative. I’ve read lots of business books, did some grad school for counseling and communication, and my tactical outcome is a win/win for all parties.

That said, I also have a “go for broke” streak when I have reached the limit of my patience and have exhausted all my available strategies.

I certainly am not advocating for you to adopt this mindset, but thinking about the potential clarity it might yield, could possibly help motivate you to ask him if he ever intends to work on his issues. The answer will give you perspective about what you will experience in years to come.

[Ozzie101]

I can be very similar, Cat. Reserved, polite, very careful in communicating with my eyes on the end goal. Serves me well in my job. I can be friendly and warm and understanding when talking to someone, all the while knowing my office is going to nail them to the wall. Dishonest? Manipulative? Maybe.

I also tend to be understanding and forgiving to a fault.

But, like you, I can be very direct and “hard” when pushed. I’ve done that with H before after episodes. But eventually, that goes away, his contrition ends and we end up in the same cycle. I can’t change him. But I can hold firm to my end of the rope.

[formflier]

That said, I also have a “go for broke” streak when I have reached the limit of my patience and have exhausted all my available strategies.
 

Couple things I have learned and "taken to heart".  When being in a r/s with a pwBPD a lot of preconceived notions of what is and isn't acceptable need to be swept away...be more pragmatic...if it works it works..shrug and move on.  Take lots of things less personally..etc etc.   Might even be true that "most" of my work as been on this side.

I've also learned that for things your values and beliefs don't allow you to compromise on...you can't give an inch...hold firm.  No mixed signals.  Many times "no" serves as a complete sentence.

"They" have to know that when you take that stance...it is an unassailable brick wall. 


So...we should probably talk as a group and ultimately Ozzie will have to decide where she puts homicidal threats. 

Either it goes in the category of "that's just him" and she works on being less triggered and less exposure

or

It goes in the "this isn't going to work long term" and someone other than me will be changing..or else (again..not communicated to him in this way...but that's the internal monologue of Ozzie)

My vote is firmly for homicidal threats being something like suicide threats that just aren't tenable in any form whatsoever over the long term. 

We also know getting from here to there with either pay Ozzie takes is not going to be pleasant...but will be "worth it" in the end.

There are risks with either approach.

For the "don't take him seriously approach"...what if it turns out you should have taken him seriously..and a loved one is actually hurt or worse.

For the "not going to accept this long term"...you may be faced with him deciding with actions and words that "I will make these threats until the day I die...I will not change.." which may lead to the end of the relationship...although it will free Ozzie from the impact of those threats.

No guarantees, although my "bet" is that he caves and does what is required to keep the relationship with Ozzie.

Best,

FF

[Ray2017]

Delurking to talk about the homicidal threats. My H had a lot of spoken HI, and I got a lot of good feedback here on steps i should take. Among other things, I mentioned it to my T, who then reported it to my H’s T. I was dismayed when his T told my T he had never heard about this before,, when I had called him and repeated the graphic details of what my H had told me he was going to do to a friend. I don’t know how you forget that. Anyway, both Ts had nothing specific to offer as to what to do, and my H’s T told him I told my T about the HI. When my H confronted me, in a rage, that I had talked behind his back, he’s allowed to “vent” to his wife, how could I think he was serious (I’m sure this sounds familiar!), I decided I wasn’t backing down. HI is NOT normal, and it is not okay with me. I told him that if trained professionals didn’t know how to deal with it, how was supposed to? I told him that if I heard any further HI I would not hesitate to call for help. He believed me. Amazingly, I’ve never heard another vocalized HI again. I did the same thing for his suicidal ideation several months later when he brought the belts to show me he was going to hang himself. His  SI is now inferred, not directly stated. I’ll take that improvement for the time being.

All of this is scary, and I’m so sorry for all of these struggles. My experience drove home that my H CAN control some of his behavior. And if he truly can’t, he’s then dangerous enough that making those calls for help are absolutely necessary.

[Ozzie101]

I appreciate that insight and experience, Ray. Thank you!

I’ll have to think about where I put his HI. I don’t like it. But I also think it’s him just verbalizing frustration. I don’t know. I have a lot to think through as far as what I can stand and what I can’t. I do know I don’t want to listen to that talk and the name-calling anymore. Honestly, it makes me think less of him and makes me less likely to really listen to his point of view.

[formflier]

I would encourage you to put HI in the same category as SI.

If you hear it...you call in the Calvary...EVERY TIME.

Yep..he will flip out and accuse and...

Honestly..this protects you as much as him.

1.  We know it's not healthy
2.  We know we aren't trained for this.
3.  How do we feel if we "give a pass" and he completes it.

Best,

FF